|
|
Post by help on Jan 22, 2024 15:17:52 GMT -5
Much better to use your own commonsense and moral compass than being under the influence of spirits, supposedly. When people are under the influence they lose responsibility for their actions, they can falsely say the action was justified by the HS.
I choose moral compass. A moral compass is a set of principles that guides the decision-making process. Having a high moral compass means that one has a high standard of ethical morals. Moral compass is you, part of your being, not just some magical influence that pops in when convenient.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Jan 22, 2024 17:38:13 GMT -5
No one said they didn't do things differently back then to today, the chuckite says we don't/can't understand it since it was Hebrew and in Hebrew and of those times...would it be that difficult for the Holy Spirit to reveal those things also? Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? This business of being Led by the Holy Spirit is one of the most mis-used facets of religion, alongside apocalyptic preaching. In essence it is drawn out of the holster when someone disagrees with the other person. "Oh, you have a bad spirit, or you're not being led by the Spirit. Or I am being led by the Spirit, which is why I have this viewpoint different to yours..etc etc"
I am not denying that people can be led into performing actions, contrary to their human instincts, by a power that seems greater than human. Holy Spirit can be one of those labels.
The workers that were guilty of CSA, were of course invoking their being led by the Holy Spirit in their preaching, and probably discussions with the Friends. Fat lot of good those delusions were.
We had a worker here claim he was led by the Holy Spirit to go to China. Well he did, and only lasted about five minutes. Was that the Holy Spirit, or was it something else in his mind? Maybe some kind of psychosis? Or did he fancy an Asian experience? I have no idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 22, 2024 17:48:50 GMT -5
Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? This business of being Led by the Holy Spirit is one of the most mis-used facets of religion, alongside apocalyptic preaching. In essence it is drawn out of the holster when someone disagrees with the other person. "Oh, you have a bad spirit, or you're not being led by the Spirit. Or I am being led by the Spirit, which is why I have this viewpoint different to yours..etc etc"
I am not denying that people can be led into performing actions, contrary to their human instincts, by a power that seems greater than human. Holy Spirit can be one of those labels.
The workers that were guilty of CSA, were of course invoking their being led by the Holy Spirit in their preaching, and probably discussions with the Friends. Fat lot of good those delusions were. We had a worker here claim he was led by the Holy Spirit to go to China. Well he did, and only lasted about five minutes. Was that the Holy Spirit, or was it something else in his mind? Maybe some kind of psychosis? Or did he fancy an Asian experience? I have no idea.
I think it's all about the person and how they interpret things. Their agenda etc. It's not a good look though when you claim to have special access to the right HS interpretation like some of the workers that are involved in this mess have claimed. I see it used a lot of the time for justification for their interpretation of the scriptures. There are so many different interpretations on here of scripture and the HS is credited by all of them, so therefore, they only are correct. Look what's happening right now with Maryhig. She's being told she is wrong because she doesn't know how to interpret scripture. They know and she doesn't because what she sees doesn't happen to align with what they grew up being told. It's so interesting to watch. It sure makes me understand how we got so many denominations in the various world religions though. |
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 22, 2024 18:03:32 GMT -5
Look what's happening right now with Maryhig. She's being told she is wrong because she doesn't know how to interpret scripture. They know and she doesn't because what she sees doesn't happen to align with what they grew up being told. It's so interesting to watch. It sure makes me understand how we got so many denominations in the various world religions though. I also noticed maryhig has been getting rough treatment lately. The only solas when one christian beats up on another christian are the "suffering as a virtue" verses like; Peter 4:13
"But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."
|
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 22, 2024 23:45:15 GMT -5
We don't need any Nicene creed, we have the Bible and that's all we need. Is the source of the bible something that should not be questioned? There are so many examples of errors in the bible when examined in light of what is known today. |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 22, 2024 23:50:36 GMT -5
Much better to use your own commonsense and moral compass than being under the influence of spirits, supposedly. When people are under the influence they lose responsibility for their actions, they can falsely say the action was justified by the HS. I choose moral compass. A moral compass is a set of principles that guides the decision-making process. Having a high moral compass means that one has a high standard of ethical morals. Moral compass is you, part of your being, not just some magical influence that pops in when convenient. Your morals are internal to you. Ethics depend on an external source. Ethical morals is hard to parse. |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 22, 2024 23:54:58 GMT -5
No one said they didn't do things differently back then to today, the chuckite says we don't/can't understand it since it was Hebrew and in Hebrew and of those times...would it be that difficult for the Holy Spirit to reveal those things also? Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? Before following anyone/thing without question shouldn't its very existence be questioned? Shouldn't the HS be the same for everyone or are there different varieties of the HS? If there are, which one is the true HS? |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jan 23, 2024 0:57:30 GMT -5
Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? Before following anyone/thing without question shouldn't its very existence be questioned? Shouldn't the HS be the same for everyone or are there different varieties of the HS? If there are, which one is the true HS?
I believe its the same for everyone, but speaks louder to those who listen and adhere to what the H.S. sears on your conscience (Romans 2:15). I also believe that his Spirit permeates the earth and gives everyone a sense of right from wrong. In other words, nearly everyone knows that murder and theft are wrong, and are thereby culpable for transgressing those laws. That conviction from the H.S. means that no one can claim innocents or ignorance at judgement.
While everyone has that initial unction of his Spirit, only believers have the indwelling Spirit that abides with them.. jmo
|
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 1:26:31 GMT -5
We don't need any Nicene creed, we have the Bible and that's all we need. Is the source of the bible something that should not be questioned? There are so many examples of errors in the bible when examined in light of what is known today. Oh my word I was honestly only thinking about you 2 days ago. I was wondering how you were, nice to see you again. How are you? 😊 |
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 23, 2024 1:39:37 GMT -5
Is the source of the bible something that should not be questioned? There are so many examples of errors in the bible when examined in light of what is known today. Oh my word I was honestly only thinking about you 2 days ago. I was wondering how you were, nice to see you again. How are you? 😊 I sent a message via the US (Unholy Spirit) to you 2 days ago. Glad you got it! |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 1:53:19 GMT -5
Oh my word I was honestly only thinking about you 2 days ago. I was wondering how you were, nice to see you again. How are you? 😊 I sent a message via the US (Unholy Spirit) to you 2 days ago. Glad you got it! Ha ha ha ha very funny! |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 2:13:35 GMT -5
Ah you see, I don't see the Bible as many do. I see the grave as hell and it's not the literal grave either, it's hell in the here and now! Sheol is the abode of the dead, and we can be dead and our spirits separated from God in this lifetime. We are already in the grave when we are separated from God and dead to him. We need to be brought from death to life in the here and now to know God. Jesus spoke of this when he said that the pharasees were as white washed sepulchers (graves), full of dead mens bones. White washed graves, looking right on the outside, but full of the dead on the inside not having the living Spirit, and knowing the way of God but not living by it thus they are dead to him. I don't believe that we sleep in any literal grave when we die, I believe that or body goes to back to the earth and our Spirit goes to God. Jesus himself said, "father into your hands I commend my Spirit" and Stephen also called on God and asked Christ Jesus to receive his Spirit And I don't believe in any rapture, the resurrection is in the here and now, when we are raised from death to life through Christ by the Spirit. And God isn't any man upstairs, God is Spirit and he lives in the hearts of those who love him. What happens to non believers then in your belief? Do they also go to God? Or do they just die and become one with the earth again like I believe all people do when they die? I believe that we all go to God and then he decides what to do with us. I think God looks at the heart I'm not here to judge, his word does that. You could have a better heart than me, he's the judge and he'll decide where we will all go, me included. I don't see myself going to heaven and lots of other people going to hell. I care about everyone and want you all in heaven and I'm on the same journey in this life as everyone else is. And I know that I have to endure to the end to be saved so I can't say that I'm already saved. Although I'm being saved in the here and now from the ways of this world as God helps me daily to overcome. And I hope one day you do believe, because I know he's there and I hope that one day you see that too. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2024 2:24:29 GMT -5
No one said they didn't do things differently back then to today, the chuckite says we don't/can't understand it since it was Hebrew and in Hebrew and of those times...would it be that difficult for the Holy Spirit to reveal those things also? Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? I doubt any of them thought it WAS NOT bad, what happened was people did not know what to do from a legal standpoint. I'm sure several checked too but decided to do actual evil and move the pedos around anyways. That would be NOT listening to the HS not the HS was missing/limited... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2024 2:26:29 GMT -5
We don't need any Nicene creed, we have the Bible and that's all we need. Is the source of the bible something that should not be questioned? There are so many examples of errors in the bible when examined in light of what is known today. Hello old man where ya been? Hi!! |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 2:33:02 GMT -5
Much better to use your own commonsense and moral compass than being under the influence of spirits, supposedly. When people are under the influence they lose responsibility for their actions, they can falsely say the action was justified by the HS. I choose moral compass. A moral compass is a set of principles that guides the decision-making process. Having a high moral compass means that one has a high standard of ethical morals. Moral compass is you, part of your being, not just some magical influence that pops in when convenient. Listen to your conscience that's the Spirit talking to you, and he always tries to move you to do what's right. I believe that the conscience is the Spirit trying to talk to us, but many don't see it. Our conscience goes directly against our wrong thoughts and prompts us to do what's right. And I believe our conscience is God guiding us in the right direction. Only once we believe and follow Jesus, our conscience becomes so much stronger that we can't do the things we used to do. And we are to listen to our conscience and turn from doing the wrong we do, and do what's right. Sometimes this can be very hard, but God is helping me. God has also given us laws, and these laws mostly abide even in the law courts today. For instance you should not kill, you should not lie, etc. But many don't even abide by the basic commandments of God or by the laws of the land so they'll have very little of a conscience or completely ignore it and they then go on a free for all and just think of themselves and they just do what they want to do regardless of who they hurt. God tries to guide us to do what's right, and it's up to us whether we listen or not. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 2:37:58 GMT -5
Before following anyone/thing without question shouldn't its very existence be questioned? Shouldn't the HS be the same for everyone or are there different varieties of the HS? If there are, which one is the true HS?
I believe its the same for everyone, but speaks louder to those who listen and adhere to what the H.S. sears on your conscience (Romans 2:15). I also believe that his Spirit permeates the earth and gives everyone a sense of right from wrong. In other words, nearly everyone knows that murder and theft are wrong, and are thereby culpable for transgressing those laws. That conviction from the H.S. means that no one can claim innocents or ignorance at judgement.
While everyone has that initial unction of his Spirit, only believers have the indwelling Spirit that abides with them.. jmo
Oh my word I wrote my last post before reading this, I totally agree! But it's not only to say we believe, but those who truly believe and obey his word that have the indwelling Spirit abiding in them. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 2:55:31 GMT -5
Look what's happening right now with Maryhig. She's being told she is wrong because she doesn't know how to interpret scripture. They know and she doesn't because what she sees doesn't happen to align with what they grew up being told. It's so interesting to watch. It sure makes me understand how we got so many denominations in the various world religions though. I also noticed maryhig has been getting rough treatment lately. The only solas when one christian beats up on another christian are the "suffering as a virtue" verses like; Peter 4:13
"But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."
Ah it's ok, it's only a verbal beating. Can you imagine though if I met some people in real life. I've been told that I should be stoned to death and that they would do it to me given half a chance. I've also been told by a few people that I should be put to death mostly because I don't believe in the trinity or that we need a human sacrifice to save us. One man said he can't wait to watch me burn in the lake of fire! Nice! I think he wants a ringside seat! I'm sure he's passed away now, I hope he got to heaven where he said he was going as he condemned me to hell. And I really mean that, I wouldn't want anyone to go to the places he believed in. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 2:56:28 GMT -5
We don't need any Nicene creed, we have the Bible and that's all we need. Is the source of the bible something that should not be questioned? There are so many examples of errors in the bible when examined in light of what is known today. Errors? In what way? Thank you. |
|
|
|
Post by help on Jan 23, 2024 3:01:12 GMT -5
It is possible to be good and live a responsible life without a belief in God. You need the intestinal fortitude to do it yourself, without any props. There are some non-theists who live virtuous lives, just as good, or better compared to some Christians, even though they don't believe in God.
We have many fine examples of such people, here on TMB and should be very grateful for that. Never stop learning from others, they have so much to give. I have been so fortunate in this regard, never got stuck in a rut, ventured out and shared time with both believers and non-believers. That has certainly enriched my life and made it all worthwhile.
Don't ever get the idea that your belief is the only right one. It has never been and never will be that one size fits all.
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jan 23, 2024 3:06:24 GMT -5
I also noticed maryhig has been getting rough treatment lately. The only solas when one christian beats up on another christian are the "suffering as a virtue" verses like; Peter 4:13
"But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."
Ah it's ok, it's only a verbal beating. Can you imagine though if I met some people in real life. I've been told that I should be stoned to death and that they would do it to me given half a chance. I've also been told by a few people that I should be put to death mostly because I don't believe in the trinity or that we need a human sacrifice to save us. One man said he can't wait to watch me burn in the lake of fire! Nice! I think he wants a ringside seat! I'm sure he's passed away now, I hope he got to heaven where he said he was going as he condemned me to hell. And I really mean that, I wouldn't want anyone to go to the places he believed in. You know a religious theory is flimsy when they kill those who don't believe it. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 7:07:13 GMT -5
It is possible to be good and live a responsible life without a belief in God. You need the intestinal fortitude to do it yourself, without any props. There are some non-theists who live virtuous lives, just as good, or better compared to some Christians, even though they don't believe in God. We have many fine examples of such people, here on TMB and should be very grateful for that. Never stop learning from others, they have so much to give. I have been so fortunate in this regard, never got stuck in a rut, ventured out and shared time with both believers and non-believers. That has certainly enriched my life and made it all worthwhile. Don't ever get the idea that your belief is the only right one. It has never been and never will be that one size fits all. Well just as your name says, that's exactly what I needed.... Help. And God has helped me, he showed me where I was going wrong. I thought I was ok too, I could be nice and help people, but I also had a not so nice side which God helps me to overcome. It's like the story in the Bible of the rich young ruler. He asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life, and Jesus told him to obey the commandments of God and live. He said, "all these I have done from my youth" and he asked Jesus what he lacked, and Jesus knew what was wrong with him and he told him, he told him to sell all that he has and give it to the poor and follow him (Knowing that he loved money). But that was too much for him to do. He couldn't let it go, totally different from Zacchaeus who was a tax collector and also loved money, who shared what he had, giving to the poor, and even giving four fold to those he had defrauded after he met Jesus (true repentance), and once he did that, Jesus said "today salvation has come to this house" Jesus was able to save Zacchaeus because his heart was right and he was willing to let go of what he was doing wrong and do what's right. Both were happy to hear Jesus, until it came to them having to let go of what they were doing wrong, the things that their flesh loved. And one of them did it and the other one didn't. That's what the word of God does, it divides, some listen and others don't want to know, loving their lives before God and God will judge us all on what we do know and what we do in this life, good and bad. Me included. |
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jan 23, 2024 7:25:09 GMT -5
Ah it's ok, it's only a verbal beating. Can you imagine though if I met some people in real life. I've been told that I should be stoned to death and that they would do it to me given half a chance. I've also been told by a few people that I should be put to death mostly because I don't believe in the trinity or that we need a human sacrifice to save us. One man said he can't wait to watch me burn in the lake of fire! Nice! I think he wants a ringside seat! I'm sure he's passed away now, I hope he got to heaven where he said he was going as he condemned me to hell. And I really mean that, I wouldn't want anyone to go to the places he believed in. You know a religious theory is flimsy when they kill those who don't believe it. Yes because some people who want to kill, or get rid of others, do so because what they have been told by those people pricks their hearts and they don't want that or because they can't prove what they believe is in the Bible so they get angry with you and turn on you and get aggressive. Which is exactly what happened to Jesus, he told the Jewish leaders of that time the truth and he was murdered for it, and because they were also envious of him because many of the people listened to him. And all because they loved themselves before God. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 23, 2024 14:15:57 GMT -5
Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? Before following anyone/thing without question shouldn't its very existence be questioned? Shouldn't the HS be the same for everyone or are there different varieties of the HS? If there are, which one is the true HS? Well considering the importance of the HS to Christians, you would think the HS would say the same thing to everyone. When have Christians ever questioned the existence of their Trinity? |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 23, 2024 14:22:23 GMT -5
What happens to non believers then in your belief? Do they also go to God? Or do they just die and become one with the earth again like I believe all people do when they die? I believe that we all go to God and then he decides what to do with us. I think God looks at the heart I'm not here to judge, his word does that. You could have a better heart than me, he's the judge and he'll decide where we will all go, me included. I don't see myself going to heaven and lots of other people going to hell. I care about everyone and want you all in heaven and I'm on the same journey in this life as everyone else is. And I know that I have to endure to the end to be saved so I can't say that I'm already saved. Although I'm being saved in the here and now from the ways of this world as God helps me daily to overcome. And I hope one day you do believe, because I know he's there and I hope that one day you see that too. I believed once. Knowing how people have created religions and Gods the world over, finally made me see that the probability of any of these Gods existing is very low. If a higher power does exist, I don't think that anyone has a clue what that higher power is or wants from us, if anything. |
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 23, 2024 14:30:42 GMT -5
Well we've recently found out that the HS wasn't able to reveal to the workers that it was bad to rape a child, so apparently the HS has it's limitations? I doubt any of them thought it WAS NOT bad, what happened was people did not know what to do from a legal standpoint. I'm sure several checked too but decided to do actual evil and move the pedos around anyways. That would be NOT listening to the HS not the HS was missing/limited... Okay. They didn't listen to the HS. |
|
|
|
Post by help on Jan 23, 2024 18:40:58 GMT -5
I am glad for you Maryhig, that you have found peace and satisfaction. I would hope that likewise you would be glad for me that I have arrived at the same situation in a different way. We have to accept each other the way we are, not what we believe. Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs and in the grand scheme of things not all that relevant. I never forget those words spoken to me by my dear Dad, on his deathbed. "Bobbie, the things we thought so important, don't seem so important now".It is just a matter of perspective.
|
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Jan 23, 2024 19:37:31 GMT -5
I am glad for you Maryhig, that you have found peace and satisfaction. I would hope that likewise you would be glad for me that I have arrived at the same situation in a different way. We have to accept each other the way we are, not what we believe. Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs and in the grand scheme of things not all that relevant. I never forget those words spoken to me by my dear Dad, on his deathbed. "Bobbie, the things we thought so important, don't seem so important now".It is just a matter of perspective. I really like maryhig, for her sincerity, her earnestness and her consistency. As I skim through her posts, in her words I hear echoes back to my own childhood, and I know for certain that ontologically there are some pretty close connections there. My father's mother is the person who brought my family into 2X2ism. In 1925, when a couple of workers showed up in their farm in rural Manitoba, Canada and her words, reportedly were "It has come. It has come." Her parents never "professed" and (I'm guessing) were probably horrified at what she had associated herself with. One of my father's earliest memories was going to visit his grandparents and his grandmother saying "Come in, come in, you little Cooneyites." For me, if you have found peace and satisfaction, if you have found integrity and compassion, I do not care how you have arrived there. If you have found a way to manage your own inadequacy, malevolence and dysfunction (we all have all of these), I do not care about what terminology you use to frame it. I suspect we are all drawing from the same source to do it, no matter what concepts or terminology we use. But what do I know? |
|
|
|
Post by help on Jan 23, 2024 21:09:29 GMT -5
Well said Sharon, at the end of the day we all conform to our own psyche. We do not have any control of that, given to us when we are born. Our own individual psyche controls the way we behave, either good or bad. For those of us that have found a better way to live, we can give thanks that the good influence of our Parents and other influences have made our life worthwhile.
|
|
