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Post by Admin on Nov 23, 2023 6:17:07 GMT -5
Australian overseer pressured to drop zero-tolerance policy
November 23, 2023 [Note: A letter is being circulated from Western NSW, asking for the zero-tolerance policy to be abolished. Pressure is being put on Graeme Dalton (overseer of NSW) to rescind the policy of zero tolerance of people with allegations against them of child sexual abuse; for the policy to be reversed and these people be returned to the fellowship including allowed to attend convention.]
Local workers at two conventions have been sent this letter asking them to stand against Graeme on this matter.
Dear Glencoe and Booyong Preps teams
Today was a day we never thought we would experience in our walk with God. A time when we have questioned the judgement of God’s Servants and their guidance.
We want to let you know of a discussion that was had after Gwen’s funeral at Tullibigeal with Graeme and Ned when a group of friends spoke on behalf of a big circle of friends.
An earnest request was made to Graeme for the total abolition of the policy. We believe the policy is not aligned with the doctrine of Jesus’s teachings of forgiveness and therefore we can’t accept it.
We all feel for Graeme in this situation, and sense he needs lots of support to take the step of removing his involvement, and releasing all of our congregation from the bondage we all find ourselves unwillingly in.
We sense Graeme may be in a fearful situation, yet he could not provide an answer to this question of why he is fearful or of whom he is afraid.
We earnestly offered to support him to withdraw from this agreement.
There is an overwhelming feeling that this needs to be resolved before convention, so a time frame of 3 days was put to Graeme to withdraw totally from the bonds of the policy.
The second issue that was requested, and this perhaps applies to preps as much as convention... that all recording and compilation of names that are being recorded, stored (and most concerning its destination) needs to stop immediately, and deleted. This is a violation on many levels and is a side issue of the policy.
So, please, with the total support of a big circle of deeply caring friends, encourage Graeme in any and every way possible to take immediate steps to disentangle/withdraw from the policy.
Regards Names redacted
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jimmy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by jimmy on Nov 23, 2023 6:42:59 GMT -5
Wow. I am stunned but not completely surprised.
I have nothing to hide so I have no problem having my details being recorded when I attend convention or a meeting. I attend conferences for work and attendance is recorded there also for various reasons.
I think such a view as expressed by this group of individuals within our fellowship shows a great ignorance to the lifelong harm that sexual assault, and in particular, childhood sexual assault, has on the victim. I think Jesus made it very clear about the consequences of hurting one of the little ones.
The prospect of someone being falsely accused is scary but the evidence is strong that this will be the small minority of accusations. The vast majority will be true even if they are never processed through the courts.
Children must be protected at all cost. The days of being unrealistic and thinking that convention is a piece of heaven on earth are gone. The reality check has been harsh but the reality is that while on this earth we are human. The workers are human. And humans are flawed. All of us.
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Post by Dan on Nov 23, 2023 8:38:18 GMT -5
Australian overseer pressured to drop zero-tolerance policyNovember 23, 2023 [Note: A letter is being circulated from Western NSW, asking for the zero-tolerance policy to be abolished. Pressure is being put on Graeme Dalton (overseer of NSW) to rescind the policy of zero tolerance of people with allegations against them of child sexual abuse; for the policy to be reversed and these people be returned to the fellowship including allowed to attend convention.] Local workers at two conventions have been sent this letter asking them to stand against Graeme on this matter.
I hope their plea is denied, its a stupid request. They obviously don't understand what Jesus taught in Matthew 5 about an offending church member, its better that you lose one of your members than to let them infect the whole church body and cause others to perish. When Judas was up to no good, Jesus sent him out the door.
Their reasoning was; "We believe the policy is not aligned with the doctrine of Jesus’s teachings of forgiveness and therefore we can’t accept it". Forgiving a repentant sinner is one thing, but physical harm (assault) is a crime that carries a penalty, whereby putting others at risk by not throwing them out is enabling further abuse. Its up to a victim to forgive their assailant, the churches priority and responsibility is to keep all members safe.. jmo
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Nov 23, 2023 10:56:05 GMT -5
These people are ignorant, stubborn and in denial. That's a bad cocktail.
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Post by learner on Nov 23, 2023 13:16:38 GMT -5
If you took this reasoning, the logical extension is to reinstate all who have been asked to not take part, or attend due to their marital status ( divorce) . Where have these indignant people been for the last 50 years?
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 23, 2023 14:23:04 GMT -5
If you took this reasoning, the logical extension is to reinstate all who have been asked to not take part, or attend due to their marital status ( divorce) . Where have these indignant people been for the last 50 years? It makes you wonder what planet they're living on. Personally, I feel some of the restrictions are about control, and being seen to take action, and may be they're a little bit anarchistic, but this is the world be live in, and it is a reaction to what has been occurring for decades, and children and junior workers have been suffering for decades.
I could not have fellowship with people holding on to those views.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Nov 23, 2023 15:20:56 GMT -5
Not only this, but Gwen is Graeme’s cousin and her funeral service is not the place or time for them to all get together and come up with this letter. It’s so disrespectful to the family.
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meg1
Junior Member
Posts: 146
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Post by meg1 on Nov 23, 2023 18:23:23 GMT -5
This letter is very disappointing and disheartening. As I reflected on my reaction to the letter and the attitudes displayed I realized that the complicit nature of the request reminded my of one of my less kind worldly-wise opinions. After much living I have learned that it is often useful to follow the money. Money and physical strength are oft seen as might. And might is often seen as right. Even when it is obviously and disgustingly wrong. And then I noticed a post on the facebook Adocates for the Truth page that suggested this group was supportive of a known perpetrator who is wealthy and has several close connections to workers. I hate being proven correct about less than noble opinions.
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Post by fixit on Nov 23, 2023 20:08:43 GMT -5
If you took this reasoning, the logical extension is to reinstate all who have been asked to not take part, or attend due to their marital status ( divorce) . Where have these indignant people been for the last 50 years? Interesting observation.
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Post by fred on Nov 24, 2023 5:30:08 GMT -5
A 'big circle' of friends ...... I think not! A big circle perhaps, but not many friends I would think.
Nevertheless, the south west of NSW has its fair share of troglodytes . After all it is the home centre of the former overseer.
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 24, 2023 14:39:44 GMT -5
Following the money trail, and who is related to who, in this saga is very enlightening. It validates the concerns of those who are trying to promote the zero-tolerance policy.
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Post by SharonArnold on Nov 24, 2023 21:34:49 GMT -5
I think there is something really phony about the letter in the OP. To my mind, there are really only two possibilities:
1) Someone thinks it is funny to promote outrage on the internet against the only decent position on child molestation, aka “zero tolerance”. 2) This so-called “circle of friends” is actually a circle of child predators who are so emboldened that they are trying to protect the sweet gig they have going on.
The 2X2 ostriches who would rather ignore child predation than embrace the unpleasantness of standing up for what they know to be right.would NEVER disagree with the workers. We know that for a fact.
If this so-called “circle of friends” really had a problem with policies not being aligned with Jesus’ teachings on forgiveness, they would have spoken out decades ago over the comparatively minor sins of D&R, wearing pants, leaving your hair down, and going to movies.
Zero tolerance is the only righteous position when it comes to sexually abusing children. You mock God in supposing that He would be okay with anything less. I can only imagine whoever wrote this letter does not even remotely understand what they are doing. On SO many levels.
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jimmy
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by jimmy on Nov 25, 2023 5:54:51 GMT -5
If you took this reasoning, the logical extension is to reinstate all who have been asked to not take part, or attend due to their marital status ( divorce) . Where have these indignant people been for the last 50 years? I am perfectly happy to have fellowship with someone who is divorced and remarried. That in my opinion is an issue between themselves and God and if they believe their connection with God in intact then who am I to argue. Sexual predators on the other hand pose a risk to others and as such forgo the privilege of fellowship. If they are genuinely repentant then I have no doubt God can feed them somehow without them being present in person.
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 25, 2023 15:37:50 GMT -5
I think there is something really phony about the letter in the OP. To my mind, there are really only two possibilities: 1) Someone thinks it is funny to promote outrage on the internet against the only decent position on child molestation, aka “zero tolerance”. 2) This so-called “circle of friends” is actually a circle of child predators who are so emboldened that they are trying to protect the sweet gig they have going on. The 2X2 ostriches who would rather ignore child predation than embrace the unpleasantness of standing up for what they know to be right.would NEVER disagree with the workers. We know that for a fact. If this so-called “circle of friends” really had a problem with policies not being aligned with Jesus’ teachings on forgiveness, they would have spoken out decades ago over the comparatively minor sins of D&R, wearing pants, leaving your hair down, and going to movies. Zero tolerance is the only righteous position when it comes to sexually abusing children. You mock God in supposing that He would be okay with anything less. I can only imagine whoever wrote this letter does not even remotely understand what they are doing. On SO many levels. The letter is real, and and I have since learned about their familial and financial ties to the work, and the actions of a related elder. The purpose of the letter is very self-serving. People are right, the circle is very small. Their actions and timing are disgusting.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2023 16:34:57 GMT -5
I think there is something really phony about the letter in the OP. To my mind, there are really only two possibilities: 1) Someone thinks it is funny to promote outrage on the internet against the only decent position on child molestation, aka “zero tolerance”. 2) This so-called “circle of friends” is actually a circle of child predators who are so emboldened that they are trying to protect the sweet gig they have going on. The 2X2 ostriches who would rather ignore child predation than embrace the unpleasantness of standing up for what they know to be right.would NEVER disagree with the workers. We know that for a fact. If this so-called “circle of friends” really had a problem with policies not being aligned with Jesus’ teachings on forgiveness, they would have spoken out decades ago over the comparatively minor sins of D&R, wearing pants, leaving your hair down, and going to movies. Zero tolerance is the only righteous position when it comes to sexually abusing children. You mock God in supposing that He would be okay with anything less. I can only imagine whoever wrote this letter does not even remotely understand what they are doing. On SO many levels. From what I've heard on other sites, the letter is legit. The large circle of friends is not though from what I hear. It's a small contingent of the friends that seem to be concerned about what this will do to their friends or family. Disgustingly immoral and hard to believe, but from what I've heard it's a real letter to Graham.
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Bigbiddy
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Post by Bigbiddy on Nov 25, 2023 16:41:40 GMT -5
A person convicted of CSA would have restrictions placed on him/her as to where they could live and access to children. Not one ounce of remorse or forgiveness would overturn that legal obligation.
Zero tolerance is the only way
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Post by bfvernon on Nov 25, 2023 18:06:15 GMT -5
Exactly. A convicted CSA perpetrator would be arrested for attending a convention.
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Nov 25, 2023 23:37:33 GMT -5
We must always respect and comply with the Laws of the Land. God's Laws are not compatible with Natural Law and are a completely different set of circumstances. Never should there be confusion which Laws to follow, they are completely separated from each other.
The Bible tells us to obey Natural Law. Romans 13 1
Everyone must submit themselves to the Governing Authorities, for there is no Authority except that which God has established.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 23:39:13 GMT -5
We must always respect and comply with the Laws of the Land. God's Laws are not compatible with Natural Law and are a completely different set of circumstances. Never should there be confusion which Laws to follow, they are completely separated from each other. The Bible tells us to obey Natural Law. Romans 13 1 Everyone must submit themselves to the Governing Authorities, for there is no Authority except that which God has established. Paul and Peter told porkies on that one...just sayin'
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Nov 26, 2023 3:07:23 GMT -5
Understanding what the Biblical authors really wanted to communicate in a particular context is not only important for speaking credibly about the Christian faith today, it's important to avoid cherry-picking Bible verses to defend our own interests and dangerously misrepresenting the Biblical authors, even skewing.
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Post by mrdobalina on Nov 26, 2023 15:21:38 GMT -5
They're doing more harm. The sooner its over the better.
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Post by blessed on Nov 26, 2023 20:48:31 GMT -5
As a professing person whom once lived near this group of friends from whence this letter originated, I plainly say that they do not speak for me ! Yes, its preps time out that way at the moment , but - The clean up has to happen !
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