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Post by leader on Aug 29, 2023 14:04:26 GMT -5
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Post by Umfolozi on Sept 1, 2023 6:13:03 GMT -5
Yes! They deserve this publicity! The bigger news will pick it up eventually.
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Post by snow on Sept 1, 2023 15:42:22 GMT -5
Yes! They deserve this publicity! The bigger news will pick it up eventually. I wish Canada and the US news stations would take more notice of this. The numbers so far are huge and no one is interested. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 2, 2023 3:12:48 GMT -5
Yes! They deserve this publicity! The bigger news will pick it up eventually. I wish Canada and the US news stations would take more notice of this. The numbers so far are huge and no one is interested.
I think its because most of the alleged abuse is old news as most of the allegations were about incidences which occurred years ago. Most victims didn't file police reports at the time of their abuse either, so evidence is unattainable or sketchy. Absent of an assailant confessing guilt, most cases are not prosecutable.
Even the woman's complaint in the article is suspect;
"Tava Zahorka Nicholson, from Colorado, who grew up with parents who were part of the 'cult,' told Daily Dot recently that she was molested by four different male members as a child - one of whom touched her inappropriately 'over 100 times.' She claimed that her childhood was so traumatic she blocked most of it out, and it wasn't until she spoke to a therapist years later as an adult that she remembered what had happened to her. 'I did not and still do not remember my childhood to this day, I remember bits and pieces"
I find that report unfathomable. She was groped 100 times but had no memory of it! No jury in the world would convict a person on that kind of testimony. I suspect she remembered what the therapist programmed her to recall. Its extremely shaky and unreliable evidence at best. She doesn't remember her childhood but wants people locked-up for assaults that she doesn't recall? Please, no credibility what-so-ever. The who, what, and where can't be construed as evidence when its an abstraction from ones imagination.
I'm not implying that nothing happened to this Tava, I'm just skeptical of her fuzzy recollection of a crime which supposedly occurred +100 times, and her charges should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Post by mountain on Sept 2, 2023 3:43:03 GMT -5
I wish Canada and the US news stations would take more notice of this. The numbers so far are huge and no one is interested. I think its because most of the alleged abuse is old news as most of the allegations were about incidences which occurred years ago. Most victims didn't file police reports at the time of their abuse either, so evidence is unattainable or sketchy. Absent of an assailant confessing guilt, most cases are not prosecutable.
Even the woman's complaint in the article is suspect; "Tava Zahorka Nicholson, from Colorado, who grew up with parents who were part of the 'cult,' told Daily Dot recently that she was molested by four different male members as a child - one of whom touched her inappropriately 'over 100 times.' She claimed that her childhood was so traumatic she blocked most of it out, and it wasn't until she spoke to a therapist years later as an adult that she remembered what had happened to her. 'I did not and still do not remember my childhood to this day, I remember bits and pieces"
I find that report unfathomable. She was groped 100 times but had no memory of it! No jury in the world would convict a person on that kind of testimony. I suspect she remembered what the therapist programmed her to recall. Its extremely shaky and unreliable evidence at best. She doesn't remember her childhood but wants people locked-up for assaults that she doesn't recall? Please, no credibility what-so-ever. The who, what, and where can't be construed as evidence when its an abstraction from ones imagination.
I'm not implying that nothing happened to this Tava, I'm just skeptical of her fuzzy recollection of a crime which supposedly occurred +100 times, and her charges should be taken with a grain of salt.
Unfortunately the Daily Mail tabloid exists on sensational reporting. It is about story telling rather than truth. In order to judge Tava's testimony we need to see it in full. Here we are subjected to a very few ' brief highlights' which I'd bet have been managed for publicity. In the end the tabloids move on. They've made their money from their audience. They are a fast moving vehicle, recklessly turning corners. Personally, although I can identify some truth in the overall report, there is enough tardy journalism content which compels me to await far more integrous reports. This is a kind of antithesis of how some workers explained away these matters in previous times. |
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2023 13:27:37 GMT -5
I wish Canada and the US news stations would take more notice of this. The numbers so far are huge and no one is interested. I think its because most of the alleged abuse is old news as most of the allegations were about incidences which occurred years ago. Most victims didn't file police reports at the time of their abuse either, so evidence is unattainable or sketchy. Absent of an assailant confessing guilt, most cases are not prosecutable.
Even the woman's complaint in the article is suspect; "Tava Zahorka Nicholson, from Colorado, who grew up with parents who were part of the 'cult,' told Daily Dot recently that she was molested by four different male members as a child - one of whom touched her inappropriately 'over 100 times.' She claimed that her childhood was so traumatic she blocked most of it out, and it wasn't until she spoke to a therapist years later as an adult that she remembered what had happened to her. 'I did not and still do not remember my childhood to this day, I remember bits and pieces"
I find that report unfathomable. She was groped 100 times but had no memory of it! No jury in the world would convict a person on that kind of testimony. I suspect she remembered what the therapist programmed her to recall. Its extremely shaky and unreliable evidence at best. She doesn't remember her childhood but wants people locked-up for assaults that she doesn't recall? Please, no credibility what-so-ever. The who, what, and where can't be construed as evidence when its an abstraction from ones imagination.
I'm not implying that nothing happened to this Tava, I'm just skeptical of her fuzzy recollection of a crime which supposedly occurred +100 times, and her charges should be taken with a grain of salt.
That's exactly the reason why stats tell us that only 6% of CSA cases ever get convicted. I'm sure something happened to her, but you're right, it's not something that has enough evidence to probably even go to trial. But trauma is like that. It can erase memories or fragment memories of horrific things that happen to people. Because of that there just isn't enough to go anyplace on. As far as media goes, and them not interested because so many are long ago, that is very short sighted on their part. What is happening now is very likely no different than what's happened for decades to kids in the group. Exposing the group would go a long way towards awareness and hopefully that will help some to use more caution instead of the absolute trust so many have given in the past. But we have a problem with the friends who believe that you can't judge your 'brother'. It's a sin and you will be damned if you excommunicate these pedophiles. I read one person's reply to someone telling them that you need to be willing to judge for the safety of your children. It's the right thing to do. Their reply was that it's not okay to sin to make your children safe, you just lack faith. That answer blew my mind. How could anyone believe that kind of thing! You can't reason with that kind of mindset and if you won't even keep your child safe child services needs to remove your children imo. I'm beginning to understand why some parents listened to the workers after their child reported CSA to them and didn't do anything and actually told their child it was their imagination like the worker told them to. What a harmful mess this is. It's still happening, that's what the media needs to expose. |
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Post by openingact34 on Sept 2, 2023 14:34:37 GMT -5
Yes! They deserve this publicity! The bigger news will pick it up eventually. I wish Canada and the US news stations would take more notice of this. The numbers so far are huge and no one is interested. Grand total of 4 comments with less than 100 votes on each. DailyMail is fairly prominent, but this story is getting very little attention. It's almost as if there is a heavenly force protecting the workers and fellowship against any accusation of wrongdoing and instead pointing the finger directly at the victims and threatening them with eternal torture. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 2, 2023 15:02:35 GMT -5
I am in two minds about media publicity.
1) In general, I don't like dirty washing being aired, regardless of the institution, the details or the people. Sensationalism has no appeal for me, which is why I pay no attention to the tabloid media, be it print or on-line.
2) However, if the publicity serves the purpose to bring justice for the victims, flush out perpetrators, and prevent more victims, then it can serve a good purpose.
I think now, though, given that things have not been addressed for so long, and the workers have had ample opportunity, but declined it, then media exposure may be required.
Even though some like Internationalstudies obsess about Ross B and the Australian 60 Minutes program, there is no doubt that it was needed, and has had some impact.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2023 15:34:28 GMT -5
I am in two minds about media publicity. 1) In general, I don't like dirty washing being aired, regardless of the institution, the details or the people. Sensationalism has no appeal for me, which is why I pay no attention to the tabloid media, be it print or on-line. 2) However, if the publicity serves the purpose to bring justice for the victims, flush out perpetrators, and prevent more victims, then it can serve a good purpose. I think now, though, given that things have not been addressed for so long, and the workers have had ample opportunity, but declined it, then media exposure may be required. Even though some like Internationalstudies obsess about Ross B and the Australian 60 Minutes program, there is no doubt that it was needed, and has had some impact. I feel pretty much like you. I think that the time has come and it will do the survivors good by going public. The 'way' has had a long time to make sure children were safe. It hasn't happened. Knowing the extent of what has happened in the past makes me sick. But what makes me even sicker is knowing it didn't stop when the DB scandal broke. There are still children in the group being abused and terrorized. We probably will hear from them 20 or 30 years down the line unless we can prevail on the parents to somehow instill in their children the need to tell them if something happens to them, right now. The problem is kids are smart enough to know that if they tell on someone they have trusted or loved that it's going to change things and probably not for the better. So they lie to keep it quiet and nothing happens to their abuser. When it's a love/hate situation it's so much more difficult for the child to come forward. |
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Post by whatsup on Sept 2, 2023 16:35:07 GMT -5
Here in Ireland the overseer Craig Fulton will listen to your abuse but is of the mindset of how can we cover this up .It is terrible the damage been done to this fellowship by the abusers been allowed in meetings . Proves its all about place and who you are and the social contact
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Post by help on Sept 2, 2023 17:22:19 GMT -5
It makes me sad to read an article like that. I have some wonderful memories of my time as a 2x2. Conventions, Workers who cared for me when my Mum was so ill, Workers that worked with us on the farm. We were completely unaware of the dark underbelly. My Parents were so sincere, I know how disappointed they would be. And I feel so sorry for members of our Family and Friends that are 2x2's, it must be very tough for them to see that adverse publicity, my heart goes out to them.
This awful scourge is right though our society and it beggars belief as to why it should be. It makes no sense to good and decent people, let alone as a crime within Churches.
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Post by fixit on Jan 28, 2024 16:32:49 GMT -5
Here in Ireland the overseer Craig Fulton will listen to your abuse but is of the mindset of how can we cover this up .It is terrible the damage been done to this fellowship by the abusers been allowed in meetings . Proves its all about place and who you are and the social contact Craig Fulton & John Conley have put in place a child safeguarding policy. wingsfortruth.info/2024/01/28/irish-workers-release-child-safeguarding-policy/ |
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