peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Jul 22, 2023 22:01:02 GMT -5
Historical flooding in the area along with a downed bridge and washed out roads have blocked access to and from the convention grounds. They have to hold meetings in dining shed. The sleeping quarters are flooded. They have been told to stay put by the authorities. No one leaves and no one gets out till the water recedes and roads are opened again. Power is also out. "I'm No Stranger To The Rain" RIP Keith Whitley www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwOfWwo5WIw"I'll put this cloud behind me, that's how the man designed me, to ride the wind and dance in a hurricane."
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Post by landdownunder on Jul 22, 2023 23:23:01 GMT -5
Anyone there by name of Noah.... ??
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Post by christiansburg on Jul 23, 2023 8:30:52 GMT -5
Anyone there by name of Noah.... ?? LOL.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jul 23, 2023 10:16:44 GMT -5
I feel so bad for those people. They went off to convention hoping to get a few days of peace and hope for the soul, not knowing that they would end up being trapped with no way to escape from Dale Shultz. And the environmental disaster is horrible.
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 23, 2023 10:44:45 GMT -5
Anyone there by name of Noah.... ?? Way better than Noah Ray Hoffman, Barry Barkley, and Dale Schultz all at the same convention. If God was going to kill the rest of the earth again, this convention would be the safest place to be, with his annointed leaders over the entire Western hemisphere
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 23, 2023 17:19:27 GMT -5
This is just WILD. Hell, fire, brimstone, and a biblical style flood. 40 days and nights while they rebuild a bridge to get out of there. Baptism this year will be one for the records. Three months worth of rain in one day. Anyone there by name of Noah.... ?? Way better than Noah Ray Hoffman, Barry Barkley, and Dale Schultz all at the same convention. If God was going to kill the rest of the earth again, this convention would be the safest place to be, with his annointed leaders over the entire Western hemisphere
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 23, 2023 18:09:25 GMT -5
This is just WILD. Hell, fire, brimstone, and a biblical style flood. 40 days and nights while they rebuild a bridge to get out of there. Baptism this year will be one for the records. Three months worth of rain in one day. Never let a good crisis go to waste. I bet they can scare the equivalent of 10 conventions worth of children into professing
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Post by snow on Jul 23, 2023 20:32:29 GMT -5
Maybe God is getting all the overseers in one spot so that they can be held accountable... Make them think about what they've done and why God is so angry that he has brought very real life hardships on them.... And I'll bet they forgot to build that ark.
Seriously, all those guys in one spot! What an opportunity to grill them and they can't escape. Anyone got a helicopter that can drop Cynthia, Sheri, and Lauryn into the grounds for a little chat?
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 23, 2023 20:51:32 GMT -5
This keeps getting better and better! According to an attendee, during the Friday afternoon meeting prayer: "We pray for and thank Thee for our overseers, who are examples of Christ" I can just imagine the older brothers doing that loud lip-smacking amen to indicate how pleased they were to hear that from the platform Oh this cult is so far beyond reform! I desperately hope that somebody is going to publish the notes and "gems" though. Can you imagine? What if Ray Hoffman made his "I ain't afraid of prison" into a sermon? I'd pay to hear that
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Post by haggard on Jul 23, 2023 21:25:47 GMT -5
Maybe God is getting all the overseers in one spot so that they can be held accountable... Make them think about what they've done and why God is so angry that he has brought very real life hardships on them.... And I'll bet they forgot to build that ark. Seriously, all those guys in one spot! What an opportunity to grill them and they can't escape. Anyone got a helicopter that can drop Cynthia, Sheri, and Lauryn into the grounds for a little chat? ld say sent the RCMP and them booked..and get their mug shots for a screen saver
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Post by Dan on Jul 23, 2023 21:30:55 GMT -5
This is just WILD. Hell, fire, brimstone, and a biblical style flood. 40 days and nights while they rebuild a bridge to get out of there. Baptism this year will be one for the records. Three months worth of rain in one day.
Close to 10" (250 mm) of rain in Nova Scotia..
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2023 11:57:34 GMT -5
This keeps getting better and better! According to an attendee, during the Friday afternoon meeting prayer: "We pray for and thank Thee for our overseers, who are examples of Christ" I can just imagine the older brothers doing that loud lip-smacking amen to indicate how pleased they were to hear that from the platform Oh this cult is so far beyond reform! I desperately hope that somebody is going to publish the notes and "gems" though. Can you imagine? What if Ray Hoffman made his "I ain't afraid of prison" into a sermon? I'd pay to hear that The problem is, when someone is in the cult they can't hear or even understand that they are, even when they are told over and over what they are doing is not normal behavior. It takes deprograming and for many that takes years as many who have left have found out the hard way.
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2023 11:59:40 GMT -5
This is just WILD. Hell, fire, brimstone, and a biblical style flood. 40 days and nights while they rebuild a bridge to get out of there. Baptism this year will be one for the records. Three months worth of rain in one day. Close to 10" (250 mm) of rain in Nova Scotia.. That's going to take awhile.
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2023 12:25:22 GMT -5
Maybe God is getting all the overseers in one spot so that they can be held accountable... Make them think about what they've done and why God is so angry that he has brought very real life hardships on them.... And I'll bet they forgot to build that ark. Seriously, all those guys in one spot! What an opportunity to grill them and they can't escape. Anyone got a helicopter that can drop Cynthia, Sheri, and Lauryn into the grounds for a little chat? ld say sent the RCMP and them booked..and get their mug shots for a screen saver Now wouldn't that be a good way of rounding them up. They are all in one place, makes it easy. There is so much evidence that all three have been involved in abetting CSA because they moved workers that they knew had abused children to other fields and didn't even tell the friends to be careful around them. They need to be held accountable for this because their actions contributed to these abusers racking up more and more survivors/victims. That is unconscionable and needs to be addressed.
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Post by bigtrax on Jul 24, 2023 13:41:30 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't.
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Post by verna on Jul 24, 2023 13:53:14 GMT -5
This keeps getting better and better! According to an attendee, during the Friday afternoon meeting prayer: "We pray for and thank Thee for our overseers, who are examples of Christ" I can just imagine the older brothers doing that loud lip-smacking amen to indicate how pleased they were to hear that from the platform Oh this cult is so far beyond reform! I desperately hope that somebody is going to publish the notes and "gems" though. Can you imagine? What if Ray Hoffman made his "I ain't afraid of prison" into a sermon? I'd pay to hear that I read that notes of Dale S’s sermon are on the CCF app. I’m not a member, as I’m not a member, but hopefully someone will post them.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 24, 2023 14:23:14 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't. Interesting that you are blaming them specifically and more than others when the blame should be going to many people including friends, parents, wives and husbands. All those who remaining silent for the past many years. Blaming Dale, Ray and Barry does nothing except make them the “fall guys” or the scapegoats.
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2023 15:19:37 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't. Interesting that you are blaming them specifically and more than others when the blame should be going to many people including friends, parents, wives and husbands. All those who remaining silent for the past many years. Blaming Dale, Ray and Barry does nothing except make them the “fall guys” or the scapegoats. I see it a different way. These three are the so called leaders of the friends. There are many letters from victims that have said that they went to one of these three and they shut them down and moved the worker in question to another field without letting the friends in the new field about what the victims said to these three. So you can't act like a leader when it's convenient and then say you're not when it doesn't look good what you've been doing. They literally moved people enabling the abusers to continue to rack up more victims/survivors. You can blame the friends parents wives and husbands all you want, but the workers in the upper echelons of the hierarchy have groomed the friends, some from birth, to believe everything they say, that they can do no wrong etc. So they also need to take responsibility for the grooming they've done that made the friends never question and put them on a pedestal. I read a post from someone that is at this convention and they spoke of a younger worker saying in prayer that he was so grateful for the wonderful overseers that were just like Jesus. Paraphrased. I wonder why he said that. The 3 top guys of all the workers are sitting there listening to him put them on the same level as Christ. This has to be addressed before there can be changes in the church imo.
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Post by bigtrax on Jul 24, 2023 15:52:35 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't. Interesting that you are blaming them specifically and more than others when the blame should be going to many people including friends, parents, wives and husbands. All those who remaining silent for the past many years. Blaming Dale, Ray and Barry does nothing except make them the “fall guys” or the scapegoats. Well, I don’t recognize anyone else on that convention speaking list responsible for decades of CSA/SA coverups or any friends, parents, wives and husbands therein that have. Do you? You say the blame should be going to many people. Were these friends, parents, wives and husbands responsible for moving known predators to other states/countries and allowing them to run free amongst the unsuspecting fellowship? Were they all privy to the many cases, spanning decades of CSA/SA across the United States, Canada and other countries? (what happens in the work stays in the work) So we blame those friends, parents, wives and husbands who have been conditioned to trust in “Gods true servants” to do the right thing? Some of these families likewise conditioned going back 4-5 generations. Perhaps blaming the flock and labeling wolves as fall guys & scapegoats works for you but it doesn't fly with me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 24, 2023 21:10:03 GMT -5
Close to 10" (250 mm) of rain in Nova Scotia.. That's going to take awhile. And all the vehicles and campers etc. that can't go home yet.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 24, 2023 21:11:27 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't. Last time I was to Ellershouse they were still meeting in a tent. Does anyone know if it's been replaced with a "building"?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 24, 2023 21:14:08 GMT -5
Just imagine the message that would be sent if the meeting shed mostly emptied when it was their turn to speak? I wouldn't sit there and listen to any one of those three speak. I won't. Interesting that you are blaming them specifically and more than others when the blame should be going to many people including friends, parents, wives and husbands. All those who remaining silent for the past many years. Blaming Dale, Ray and Barry does nothing except make them the “fall guys” or the scapegoats. So of you bully people long enough, then you become the scapegoat.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 24, 2023 21:23:03 GMT -5
This keeps getting better and better! According to an attendee, during the Friday afternoon meeting prayer: "We pray for and thank Thee for our overseers, who are examples of Christ" I can just imagine the older brothers doing that loud lip-smacking amen to indicate how pleased they were to hear that from the platform Oh this cult is so far beyond reform! I desperately hope that somebody is going to publish the notes and "gems" though. Can you imagine? What if Ray Hoffman made his "I ain't afraid of prison" into a sermon? I'd pay to hear that I read that notes of Dale S’s sermon are on the CCF app. I’m not a member, as I’m not a member, but hopefully someone will post them. I can imagine what a love fest they made of the whole situation. Imagine all the kids that couldn't get home Sunday evening to their play stations and TicTok.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 25, 2023 2:27:40 GMT -5
Interesting that you are blaming them specifically and more than others when the blame should be going to many people including friends, parents, wives and husbands. All those who remaining silent for the past many years. Blaming Dale, Ray and Barry does nothing except make them the “fall guys” or the scapegoats. Well, I don’t recognize anyone else on that convention speaking list responsible for decades of CSA/SA coverups or any friends, parents, wives and husbands therein that have. Do you? You say the blame should be going to many people. Were these friends, parents, wives and husbands responsible for moving known predators to other states/countries and allowing them to run free amongst the unsuspecting fellowship? Were they all privy to the many cases, spanning decades of CSA/SA across the United States, Canada and other countries? (what happens in the work stays in the work) So we blame those friends, parents, wives and husbands who have been conditioned to trust in “Gods true servants” to do the right thing? Some of these families likewise conditioned going back 4-5 generations. Perhaps blaming the flock and labeling wolves as fall guys & scapegoats works for you but it doesn't fly with me. Ok let me use an example. Ira Hobbs was a known pedophile since 2008 by his own confession. It took 15 years for that the be dealt with and out of the 10,000s of friends and 10,000s of exes he was only finally put out of fellowship by one of these three men. Everyone acts the same, it’s not their problem - it’s somebody else’s. That’s why we are in the mess.
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Post by snow on Jul 25, 2023 12:41:21 GMT -5
Well, I don’t recognize anyone else on that convention speaking list responsible for decades of CSA/SA coverups or any friends, parents, wives and husbands therein that have. Do you? You say the blame should be going to many people. Were these friends, parents, wives and husbands responsible for moving known predators to other states/countries and allowing them to run free amongst the unsuspecting fellowship? Were they all privy to the many cases, spanning decades of CSA/SA across the United States, Canada and other countries? (what happens in the work stays in the work) So we blame those friends, parents, wives and husbands who have been conditioned to trust in “Gods true servants” to do the right thing? Some of these families likewise conditioned going back 4-5 generations. Perhaps blaming the flock and labeling wolves as fall guys & scapegoats works for you but it doesn't fly with me. Ok let me use an example. Ira Hobbs was a known pedophile since 2008 by his own confession. It took 15 years for that the be dealt with and out of the 10,000s of friends and 10,000s of exes he was only finally put out of fellowship by one of these three men. Everyone acts the same, it’s not their problem - it’s somebody else’s. That’s why we are in the mess. I do see what you are saying here. Hobbs is a good example of many turning a blind eye to those who were trying to get him kicked out of the work and not be in meetings etc. Friends allowed it to continue too. But bottom line, when a victim/survivor goes to the overseer and tells their story and this same type of story isn't just from one person the overseer has the obligation to do something to prevent a worker under his supervision from continuing to abuse. And if it's CSA then they need to go further and report it to authorities. I understand that the parents can do this and should and that's what you are pointing out. But the friends are in a group where they've been groomed for generations to never turn in a 'brother', to take it to the workers and to obey these workers when they make a decision. It's how it is for many of the friends to this day, though I think many are going to keep their eyes open a bit more now.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 25, 2023 12:58:23 GMT -5
Ok let me use an example. Ira Hobbs was a known pedophile since 2008 by his own confession. It took 15 years for that the be dealt with and out of the 10,000s of friends and 10,000s of exes he was only finally put out of fellowship by one of these three men. Everyone acts the same, it’s not their problem - it’s somebody else’s. That’s why we are in the mess. I do see what you are saying here. Hobbs is a good example of many turning a blind eye to those who were trying to get him kicked out of the work and not be in meetings etc. Friends allowed it to continue too. But bottom line, when a victim/survivor goes to the overseer and tells their story and this same type of story isn't just from one person the overseer has the obligation to do something to prevent a worker under his supervision from continuing to abuse. And if it's CSA then they need to go further and report it to authorities. I understand that the parents can do this and should and that's what you are pointing out. But the friends are in a group where they've been groomed for generations to never turn in a 'brother', to take it to the workers and to obey these workers when they make a decision. It's how it is for many of the friends to this day, though I think many are going to keep their eyes open a bit more now. I don't think it is specifically the brother worker. Its the culture. I think in my mind if its criminal I would always go to the police, it seems in generations gone by and in the USA particularly the option to go to the police wasn't considered. Why is it that a brother worker doesn't report? The general picture people are trying to paint is that the brother workers are evil - but in reality (using Ira as an example) everyone turned a blind eye - even until very recently. For the brother worker it is a fear of not protecting the image. For the friends it is a fear of rocking the boat. For the victim it is fear and shame. In fact back in 2008 despite their being hundred of exes aware of Jeans story.. nothing was done very quickly "not my problem". I see the cultural problem of information not being shared. It is very easy now to see the chain of events now in 2023, but 20 years ago information wasn't shared so freely therefore you could have a companion in the work for 40 years who has allegations from 30 years ago and you would not be aware. The overseer who was aware could be dead and the information is lost. I used the example of Jimmy Saville in the UK, he was a famous entertainer and for years abused children, it was only when he died that it was all brought together - throughout it people watched him on TV, thought he was creepy, listened to his creepy words and sat back and did nothing.
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Post by snow on Jul 25, 2023 14:07:14 GMT -5
I do see what you are saying here. Hobbs is a good example of many turning a blind eye to those who were trying to get him kicked out of the work and not be in meetings etc. Friends allowed it to continue too. But bottom line, when a victim/survivor goes to the overseer and tells their story and this same type of story isn't just from one person the overseer has the obligation to do something to prevent a worker under his supervision from continuing to abuse. And if it's CSA then they need to go further and report it to authorities. I understand that the parents can do this and should and that's what you are pointing out. But the friends are in a group where they've been groomed for generations to never turn in a 'brother', to take it to the workers and to obey these workers when they make a decision. It's how it is for many of the friends to this day, though I think many are going to keep their eyes open a bit more now. I don't think it is specifically the brother worker. Its the culture. I think in my mind if its criminal I would always go to the police, it seems in generations gone by and in the USA particularly the option to go to the police wasn't considered. Why is it that a brother worker doesn't report? The general picture people are trying to paint is that the brother workers are evil - but in reality (using Ira as an example) everyone turned a blind eye - even until very recently. For the brother worker it is a fear of not protecting the image. For the friends it is a fear of rocking the boat. For the victim it is fear and shame. In fact back in 2008 despite their being hundred of exes aware of Jeans story.. nothing was done very quickly "not my problem". I see the cultural problem of information not being shared. It is very easy now to see the chain of events now in 2023, but 20 years ago information wasn't shared so freely therefore you could have a companion in the work for 40 years who has allegations from 30 years ago and you would not be aware. The overseer who was aware could be dead and the information is lost. I used the example of Jimmy Saville in the UK, he was a famous entertainer and for years abused children, it was only when he died that it was all brought together - throughout it people watched him on TV, thought he was creepy, listened to his creepy words and sat back and did nothing. There have been many public figures that have been found out to be abusers. I agree that people tend to overlook it because of their celebrity status. But that is changing and if they are still alive they are going to jail. Bill Crosby is an example. But we're not seeing that in this group, yet. The brother workers are the leaders. Sister workers are not leaders and as many brother workers taught us friends, they were there to provide support to the male workers and bring a bit of 'softness' to the ministry. But no woman is an overseer in this group. The survivors have taken their story to the workers, some of them female, some male. But in the end it's the male worker that decides what will be done with the person there is allegations about. I personally wouldn't go to the workers first. I would report the abuse of my child to the authorities and then I would tell the workers that I had done that and that I wanted that person temporarily stopped from being in meetings with children or meetings at all. I wouldn't have the authority to stop them myself as a friend. Only a worker has that authority.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 25, 2023 14:39:15 GMT -5
I don't think it is specifically the brother worker. Its the culture. I think in my mind if its criminal I would always go to the police, it seems in generations gone by and in the USA particularly the option to go to the police wasn't considered. Why is it that a brother worker doesn't report? The general picture people are trying to paint is that the brother workers are evil - but in reality (using Ira as an example) everyone turned a blind eye - even until very recently. For the brother worker it is a fear of not protecting the image. For the friends it is a fear of rocking the boat. For the victim it is fear and shame. In fact back in 2008 despite their being hundred of exes aware of Jeans story.. nothing was done very quickly "not my problem". I see the cultural problem of information not being shared. It is very easy now to see the chain of events now in 2023, but 20 years ago information wasn't shared so freely therefore you could have a companion in the work for 40 years who has allegations from 30 years ago and you would not be aware. The overseer who was aware could be dead and the information is lost. I used the example of Jimmy Saville in the UK, he was a famous entertainer and for years abused children, it was only when he died that it was all brought together - throughout it people watched him on TV, thought he was creepy, listened to his creepy words and sat back and did nothing. There have been many public figures that have been found out to be abusers. I agree that people tend to overlook it because of their celebrity status. But that is changing and if they are still alive they are going to jail. Bill Crosby is an example. But we're not seeing that in this group, yet. The brother workers are the leaders. Sister workers are not leaders and as many brother workers taught us friends, they were there to provide support to the male workers and bring a bit of 'softness' to the ministry. But no woman is an overseer in this group. The survivors have taken their story to the workers, some of them female, some male. But in the end it's the male worker that decides what will be done with the person there is allegations about. I personally wouldn't go to the workers first. I would report the abuse of my child to the authorities and then I would tell the workers that I had done that and that I wanted that person temporarily stopped from being in meetings with children or meetings at all. I wouldn't have the authority to stop them myself as a friend. Only a worker has that authority. Ok after reporting it to the authorities, then you would inform the church? - but how far and wide would you inform? Would you inform the local community? Would you inform the local schools? I think this is more complicated than many would acknowledge. Here is an example. Lets say it like this, there is a 22 year old worker, kisses a 15 year old girl in south america, nothing else. The age of consent in south america is 14 years old. No crime is committed. 40 years later the girl comes forward and says the worker abused her and goes to the overseer in Canada to report the crime. The worker has no family, he is 62 years old and has nothing but a "clean sheet" beyond this incident. The overseer has known this worker for 30 years and has been his co-worker for 6 years. What should be done? The whole church globally informed? The local schools informed? The man excommunicated and completely cut off. I am in no way belittling the abuse by the way, but I am suggesting there is some degree of severity in the crimes committed. I am using this as an example of where an overseer MAY be conflicted on what to do. It is easy to stand on the sidelines without thinking about the depth of this. On the other hand someone like IRA HOBBS not only got removed from the work, but got himself a wife and got himself welcomed into fellowship despite his severe abuse. Only last week I was listening to a radio programme on Child Abuse and a lady called in and said she was abused by her grandfather, yet she cried in sorrow when he died. So much complexity on this matter.
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