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Post by getreal on Jul 21, 2023 14:35:23 GMT -5
Yup. Held them in my hand. Had them and used them. But there is not the detail of a rating system as stated. Read my post again. Don’t give the workers too much credit. They are not that organized. I am not defending the church god knows and everyone who reads my posts but this bit is a dead end. Look for problems and they are plenty elsewhere. Growing up we were taught that one of the differentiating factors making us right was that we have no church roll. God's people know each other by our "spirit" and can recognise one another anywhere in the world. Only "worldly churches" need a roll to keep track of their members. So, are you disappointed? Is that what you mean?
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Post by fixit on Jul 21, 2023 15:15:43 GMT -5
Growing up we were taught that one of the differentiating factors making us right was that we have no church roll. God's people know each other by our "spirit" and can recognise one another anywhere in the world. Only "worldly churches" need a roll to keep track of their members. So, are you disappointed? Is that what you mean? In the distant past I was disappointed about a lot of things. Over time I came to realise that all too often the kingdom the workers talk about is a kingdom of men and the kingdom Jesus spoke about is a kingdom within one's heart. Once I got that figured out, there's a simple question to ask about every issue... "Is it from heaven, or is it from men?" To ascribe anything as being from heaven when it is from men is idolatry. Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 21, 2023 15:46:36 GMT -5
Actually, there are two different books, at least in the CA jurisdiction. One is the book list of all the meetings, friends, and all the vital statistics. Then there is the "field" book which is only for the worker in charge for the field. It's that one that has all the little warnings about who to be afraid of in the field, etc. Can imagine that. California is so big with so many friends. Also when you get to a field new to you there is the contact book used in some places with lists of names and numbers and a few details of contacts to call on and invite, follow up on. I imagine again that all these things are digital. Oh yes, it's all digital now. Vital statistics likes to have your e-mail address too.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 21, 2023 15:49:14 GMT -5
Yup. Held them in my hand. Had them and used them. But there is not the detail of a rating system as stated. Read my post again. Don’t give the workers too much credit. They are not that organized. I am not defending the church god knows and everyone who reads my posts but this bit is a dead end. Look for problems and they are plenty elsewhere. Growing up we were taught that one of the differentiating factors making us right was that we have no church roll. God's people know each other by our "spirit" and can recognise one another anywhere in the world. Only "worldly churches" need a roll to keep track of their members. That was my earliest exposure to lists as well.
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Post by Admin on Jul 21, 2023 22:07:02 GMT -5
Growing up we were taught that one of the differentiating factors making us right was that we have no church roll. God's people know each other by our "spirit" and can recognise one another anywhere in the world. Only "worldly churches" need a roll to keep track of their members. Yes well, like so much else, there are scriptural grounds to question the truth of some of these long-held F&W teachings (aka doctrine). In 1 Cor 12:4-11 Paul tells of his realization that the Spirit will work differently in both us as individuals and corporately as churches, e.g. "there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord" (KJV). I think it's helpful to recognize the dual aspects of a church on earth. Just like we as natural creatures have both natural and spiritual aspects to our lives, a church will have all the natural requirements for a human organization. But there's also the spiritual, where God seeks to dwell corporately through his Spirit, e.g. Ephesians 2:19-22 – “So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.” In other words, as well as the perfectly reasonable natural admin tasks (like times of meeting, lists of members' emails, etc. etc.), we see our church as a place on earth where God's Spirit corporately dwells ("the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit"). It's impossible for me to imagine God's Spirit dwelling corporately in a church riddled with criminal CSA and SA and other abuse, and not dealing repentantly with such abominations.
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Post by jonathan on Jul 22, 2023 3:44:19 GMT -5
Also, why doesn’t Jonathan jump in here with his knowledge and specificity😀 Thank you, getreal, but my knowledge is not as extensive as a chatgtp or other ai! As far as lists of the friends go, I have only dealt with a lists containing names, addresses, contact numbers and particulars of what meeting they go to. This is purely for practical reasons. The last 10 years I think I have not held one in print from in my hand, as I try to do away with as much paper and books etc as possible. I must emphasize that these lists are not the book of life! In my younger years I've been twice with two different overseers, in two different fields. These tow men were very different in their ways and personalities, but I wasn't aware of even the existence of a book or rating list of the friends ie "pillars", "goats", "trouble-makers", or "hot/lukewarm/cold". Not sure what "full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality" (James 3:17) can come from that if it is as a result of "the wisdom which is from above"?
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Post by jonathan on Jul 22, 2023 3:45:31 GMT -5
May also add, this goes for all workers' lists too!
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