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Post by margaret on Jul 4, 2023 23:57:54 GMT -5
Part of repentance is compensation. The story of Zachias teaches this. It’s not a simple matter of feeling sorry. If harm has been done that has affected a person’s loss income and health costs, it shouldn’t take a lawsuit for workers and the church to compensate victims. Many may say “we didn’t do it so we’re not responsible.” The truth is maybe we didn’t do it but we enabled and supported those that did and we ignored, neglected and silenced the victims, causing even more distress and suffering. Even the Catholic Church paid compensation to its victims. I don’t think they did enough but they did more than our church would even consider doing. Anyone who thinks suing for damages is a money grab is seriously delusional. There was no closure from Jesus for Zachias until he said he would repay 4 times for what he stole. Zachias stole money but perpetrators of the church steal a persons sense of worth, steal their ability to work in good health, and steal their ability to form healthy relationships. There needs to be compensation and not just a sincere SOUNDING apology and then turn the victims over to professionals so workers can wash their hands of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 17:21:48 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't...
How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion?
It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us.
If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 5, 2023 17:25:16 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 17:26:18 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more! Correct, another ugly angle...
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 5, 2023 17:28:08 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more!
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Post by getreal on Jul 5, 2023 17:33:54 GMT -5
Fortunately it is not up to you folks. If it becomes a civil case anywhere a jury will decide based on the evidence.
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Post by verna on Jul 5, 2023 19:36:21 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more! You sound particularly optimistic. I suspect abuse is still going on. Do you think the problem is solved?
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Post by neighbour on Jul 5, 2023 19:41:28 GMT -5
Part of repentance is compensation. The story of Zachias teaches this. It’s not a simple matter of feeling sorry. If harm has been done that has affected a person’s loss income and health costs, it shouldn’t take a lawsuit for workers and the church to compensate victims. Many may say “we didn’t do it so we’re not responsible.” The truth is maybe we didn’t do it but we enabled and supported those that did and we ignored, neglected and silenced the victims, causing even more distress and suffering. Even the Catholic Church paid compensation to its victims. I don’t think they did enough but they did more than our church would even consider doing. Anyone who thinks suing for damages is a money grab is seriously delusional. There was no closure from Jesus for Zachias until he said he would repay 4 times for what he stole. Zachias stole money but perpetrators of the church steal a persons sense of worth, steal their ability to work in good health, and steal their ability to form healthy relationships. There needs to be compensation and not just a sincere SOUNDING apology and then turn the victims over to professionals so workers can wash their hands of them. Based on what we read in scripture, repentance isn't merely apologizing if/when one is called out. Those who repented knew themselves what to repent from. I don't think we read of Jesus ever calling out a specific sin except for those of the Pharisees who wouldn't repent. Paul put it best...it's a transformation by the renewing of the mind. Your example of Zacchaeus is apt...Jesus never demanded he repay his wrong with punitive damages, he came up with that himself from a place of repentance. As of yet I'm not aware of any perpetrator or overseer/looker of sexual aggression among the workers and friends having an indepedent change of heart, recognizing their own culpability, and removing themselves from their place of privilege. Every single act of justice or even simply communication has been forced by way of external influence. There is no repentence to be found in any of this.
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Post by margaret on Jul 5, 2023 21:57:27 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more! I understand that. I probably worded it wrong. I think the compensation should come from the ministry but as a member or past member I would also want to contribute to a fund raiser for the victims. I also think victims should also have personal apologies from those that dismissed their concerns instead of just a general letter that is written to everybody. And I think workers need to have regular contact with victims in their areas to see if there’s anything they can do for them, if the victim so desires. I think victims should be consulted and included in any discussions about them. I also think perpetrators should have some kind of responsibility in paying regularly into a fund for victims also if they want any kind of integration into some form of fellowship in the church. Could perpetrators who agree to the conditions that are required of them, meet with each other, and workers or friends who will monitor their compliance? I mean, workers are often bored out of their skulls. Why wouldn’t they want to labor for something that will help keep their flock safe?
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Post by getreal on Jul 5, 2023 23:11:00 GMT -5
This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more! I understand that. I probably worded it wrong. I think the compensation should come from the ministry but as a member or past member I would also want to contribute to a fund raiser for the victims. I also think victims should also have personal apologies from those that dismissed their concerns instead of just a general letter that is written to everybody. And I think workers need to have regular contact with victims in their areas to see if there’s anything they can do for them, if the victim so desires. I think victims should be consulted and included in any discussions about them. I also think perpetrators should have some kind of responsibility in paying regularly into a fund for victims also if they want any kind of integration into some form of fellowship in the church. Could perpetrators who agree to the conditions that are required of them, meet with each other, and workers or friends who will monitor their compliance? I mean, workers are often bored out of their skulls. Why wouldn’t they want to labor for something that will help keep their flock safe? This sounds nice and you mean well but abusers can’t be integrated. I can see workers taking more interest in victims but their contact with abusers should be limited and under the direction of professionals.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 6, 2023 7:00:18 GMT -5
This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more! You sound particularly optimistic. I suspect abuse is still going on. Do you think the problem is solved? Ofcourse it’s not resolved, anise happens in every single section of society. If you think the fellowship is the only place with abuse you are greatly misguided.
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Post by verna on Jul 6, 2023 9:13:54 GMT -5
You sound particularly optimistic. I suspect abuse is still going on. Do you think the problem is solved? Ofcourse it’s not resolved, anise happens in every single section of society. If you think the fellowship is the only place with abuse you are greatly misguided. I’m curious. Did I say the fellowship is the only place abuse happens?
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 6, 2023 10:50:43 GMT -5
Ofcourse it’s not resolved, anise happens in every single section of society. If you think the fellowship is the only place with abuse you are greatly misguided. I’m curious. Did I say the fellowship is the only place abuse happens? You are suggesting that a person abused by an elder is the responsibility of everyone in fellowship. A bit like all the school staff being made to pay for the abuse of one teacher. I think the collective blaming is very alarming.
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Post by verna on Jul 6, 2023 11:17:45 GMT -5
I’m curious. Did I say the fellowship is the only place abuse happens? You are suggesting that a person abused by an elder is the responsibility of everyone in fellowship. A bit like all the school staff being made to pay for the abuse of one teacher. I think the collective blaming is very alarming. No of course the elder is individually responsible for the abuse. Others are responsible for hiding it.
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Post by margaret on Jul 6, 2023 13:13:53 GMT -5
I’m curious. Did I say the fellowship is the only place abuse happens? You are suggesting that a person abused by an elder is the responsibility of everyone in fellowship. A bit like all the school staff being made to pay for the abuse of one teacher. I think the collective blaming is very alarming. The spirit tells us when something is off. I have had workers in my home and felt something just wasn’t right but was too afraid to ask because questioning workers never went well with some others that tried that approach. It’s not about others being to blame, but as the body of Christ, would not every member WANT to pitch in and look after their own? I don’t care if one of the victims is in another country and I don’t know them, I would want to donate to help their fragile and broken hearts and lives. Would you? According to scriptures, YES, it IS the churches responsibility to reach out and help those that belong or belonged. But that doesn’t mean there will be some or many that would. There’s a lot of unbelief and deadness in the church. Even some churches outside of the truth church seem to do better at providing care and support for the most vulnerable and those taken of advantage of than the truth church. There’s not a lot of perfection anywhere because that’s Jesus and there’s very little left of that influence. Sucks to live in a time when much is promised and nothing delivered. Or worse, much is promised and what is delivered isn’t of Christ. But there will always be a remnant. Outcasts of the truth.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 6, 2023 13:31:10 GMT -5
You are suggesting that a person abused by an elder is the responsibility of everyone in fellowship. A bit like all the school staff being made to pay for the abuse of one teacher. I think the collective blaming is very alarming. No of course the elder is individually responsible for the abuse. Others are responsible for hiding it. Are you suggesting parents who don’t tell all the church are also responsible for hiding it?
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Post by verna on Jul 6, 2023 14:11:11 GMT -5
No of course the elder is individually responsible for the abuse. Others are responsible for hiding it. Are you suggesting parents who don’t tell all the church are also responsible for hiding it? Not sure why you ask that. I’m talking about hiding from law enforcement.
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Post by snow on Jul 6, 2023 17:19:33 GMT -5
You sound particularly optimistic. I suspect abuse is still going on. Do you think the problem is solved? Ofcourse it’s not resolved, anise happens in every single section of society. If you think the fellowship is the only place with abuse you are greatly misguided. Of course it isn't just the 2x2 group. But all organizations where it is found do report their abusers to the law and they do compensate those that have been abused. So why would the ministers of the 2x2's not have to compensate those that were abused by co-workers?
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 6, 2023 22:19:55 GMT -5
In 2017 The Christian Conventions of Victoria (formally Christian Assemblies of Australia) revoked their name when the Government set up a Redress Skeme this to obtain "compensation" for victims of sexual damage,especially sins by someone in that institutions Pedophelias.. So the 2x2 Secret Sect cancelled their name immediately so they could say they are not an Institution. No wonder an exWorker said they are "masters of deceipt" !!! Would you allow yourself to turn your back on these victims?? Many of course only children,this leading to mental health problems "EVEN"suicides. If you don't speak up and support the victims of sexual brutality,you then carry that "sin" on your own shoulders don't you ??
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2023 22:49:02 GMT -5
In 2017 The Christian Conventions of Victoria (formally Christian Assemblies of Australia) revoked their name when the Government set up a Redress Skeme this to obtain "compensation" for victims of sexual damage,especially sins by someone in that institutions Pedophelias.. So the 2x2 Secret Sect cancelled their name immediately so they could say they are not an Institution. No wonder an exWorker said they are "masters of deceipt" !!! Would you allow yourself to turn your back on these victims?? Many of course only children,this leading to mental health problems "EVEN"suicides. If you don't speak up and support the victims of sexual brutality,you then carry that "sin" on your own shoulders don't you ?? Not sure there is a verse for that, if there is please show it...
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 6, 2023 22:49:56 GMT -5
PLEASE NOTE ----- "Paedophelia is a mental disporder". Even castration does not cure it. It is a mental disorder,remember this !! The mishandling of children won't leave the "brain.. Study it.
A man in our district belted his son with a shovel when he found out he was a Homosexual. So to cover it up he was encouraged to become an Irving Doctrine Preacher. He did but he covered it up for many years that he was a Paedophile !! He was years later one of the three workers named in the Ian Parker suicide. One of those preachers was sent overseas about the same time another one that hit the media later that revealed the reported number of his many victims,(only 12 of them!!!). YES!!! More than one have/are sent overseas or interstate "DOES THIS HAPPEN IN YOUR STATE"?? And don't be fooled? A non biblical celibate ministry has been a great hiding place for both Homo/Lesbian and paedophiles hasn't it?? On a % basis how does it fit into the top ten?? Pretty high up???
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 573
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 6, 2023 23:46:19 GMT -5
G'day again Wally. As you would know the Bible says "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD".
A few verses to answer your question. Mark... 9 v 24 R evelation9 v 20/21 '''''''' 22 v 12/18 2 Timothy 1 v 7 1 """""""" 1 v 9/15 Matthew 18 v 6/24 Mat not answer them but are good prompers? Leviticus 2o v 2/23
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 573
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 6, 2023 23:48:51 GMT -5
Hmm yes they should and no they shouldn't... How much is enough for being raped? 1 million 2 million, 3 billion and 4 trillion? It should go to medical care for the most part as for an avg. of 30-40 years of therapy and meds. It could easily jump to 500,000us. If it's unclear where the money goes (like the workers) I'd pause that. This is like reparations, why should someone who joins the fellowship today pay for the sins of others who they may have never met or known… therapy could cost 50 million if you wanted it to, or more!
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Post by fixit on Jul 7, 2023 0:44:57 GMT -5
G'day again Wally. As you would know the Bible says "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD". How would you define scripture in this context?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 1:56:18 GMT -5
G'day again Wally. As you would know the Bible says "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD". A few verses to answer your question. Mark... 9 v 24 R evelation9 v 20/21 '''''''' 22 v 12/18 2 Timothy 1 v 7 1 """""""" 1 v 9/15 Matthew 18 v 6/24 Mat not answer them but are good prompers? Leviticus 2o v 2/23 I should have been more clear, my fault. "If you don't speak up and support the victims of sexual brutality, you then carry that "sin" on your own shoulders, don't you ??" You'll need scripture for that. There is no Lev. 2:23
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Post by fixit on Jul 7, 2023 2:16:58 GMT -5
G'day again Wally. As you would know the Bible says "ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD". A few verses to answer your question. Mark... 9 v 24 R evelation9 v 20/21 '''''''' 22 v 12/18 2 Timothy 1 v 7 1 """""""" 1 v 9/15 Matthew 18 v 6/24 Mat not answer them but are good prompers? Leviticus 2o v 2/23 I should have been more clear, my fault. "If you don't speak up and support the victims of sexual brutality, you then carry that "sin" on your own shoulders, don't you ??" You'll need scripture for that. Justice was important throughout the bible. Hebrew Mishpat means both judgement and justice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 9:05:21 GMT -5
I should have been more clear, my fault. "If you don't speak up and support the victims of sexual brutality, you then carry that "sin" on your own shoulders, don't you ??" You'll need scripture for that. Justice was important throughout the bible. Hebrew Mishpat means both judgement and justice. That isn't what he is totally suggesting here...
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Post by snow on Jul 7, 2023 13:16:11 GMT -5
Well I hope at some point in the future we will see a judge decide to compensate CSA survivors in the 2x2's like they are doing now with the banks that turned a blind eye to Epstein's sex trafficking of minors. www.bbc.com/news/business-63750504
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