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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 15, 2023 0:14:47 GMT -5
Of course it will still be a crime wally. Just because it's a sexual orientation doesn't mean that it isn't a crime to act on it. Just like any other sexual orientation that is used in a way that harms someone. It will always harm the victims so it will always be a crime if acted upon. You aren't getting it. This will be the first domino of many. Just like they did little step by little step with homosexuality that was illegal until it was legal only 2 countries left that have homosexuality illegal now out of 180+ They do still get tossed off buildings in some Muslims countries sure but by and large that war is over. If pedophilia is a crime then it won't be protected but if pedophilia is protected laws will be made accommodate that they can't both be right one will give and with the pattern we know it's coming. All sex for minors was illegal now legislation wants to make it with in 10 years of each other is fine. Little step by little step. This has been mentioned before time and again. Look at NAMBLA and their goals this is going to fit right in with that. Ever heard of how to boil a frog? Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there.
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Post by snow on Jun 15, 2023 12:32:59 GMT -5
Being a pedophile is already protected. Pedophilia is the act which is not protected. I can't see it ever being protected. Being a homosexual is protected. A homosexual committing a crime is not protected. Being a pedophile is not a crime. Pedophilia is. I haven't heard about the within 10 years is fine thing. I would imagine it is maybe based on trying to address the problem of a 17 year old having sex with an 18 year old and not making that a crime? I would be against a blanket 10 years of each other with no age limit involved in it. The 10-year idea really doesn't simplify anything for anyone. The law (at least in Nevada) allows for two age-legal categories: 16-21, and 18-100, if it doesn't kill you in the meantime. That actually makes more sense, the 16-21 age category I mean.
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Post by getreal on Jun 15, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -5
You aren't getting it. This will be the first domino of many. Just like they did little step by little step with homosexuality that was illegal until it was legal only 2 countries left that have homosexuality illegal now out of 180+ They do still get tossed off buildings in some Muslims countries sure but by and large that war is over. If pedophilia is a crime then it won't be protected but if pedophilia is protected laws will be made accommodate that they can't both be right one will give and with the pattern we know it's coming. All sex for minors was illegal now legislation wants to make it with in 10 years of each other is fine. Little step by little step. This has been mentioned before time and again. Look at NAMBLA and their goals this is going to fit right in with that. Ever heard of how to boil a frog? Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there. It is sick to equate in any way loving relationships between consenting adults and the victimization of children by adults. These aren’t circumstances that are on the same continuum. Embracing the lgbtq community is not a symptom of societal decline; it is a sign of maturity and understanding. Abusing children will always be a crime. Your argument just reveals your prejudice. It doesn’t provide any proof that society is on some track to legalize abusing children. Apples and oranges.
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Post by snow on Jun 15, 2023 15:03:52 GMT -5
Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there. It is sick to equate in any way loving relationships between consenting adults and the victimization of children by adults. These aren’t circumstances that are on the same continuum. Embracing the lgbtq community is not a symptom of societal decline; it is a sign of maturity and understanding. Abusing children will always be a crime. Your argument just reveals your prejudice. It doesn’t provide any proof that society is on some track to legalize abusing children. Apples and oranges. I agree. Abusing children will always be a crime. There is a huge difference between acknowledging the needs of the lgbtq community and allowing children to be sexually abused.
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Post by getreal on Jun 15, 2023 15:43:21 GMT -5
You aren't getting it. This will be the first domino of many. Just like they did little step by little step with homosexuality that was illegal until it was legal only 2 countries left that have homosexuality illegal now out of 180+ They do still get tossed off buildings in some Muslims countries sure but by and large that war is over. If pedophilia is a crime then it won't be protected but if pedophilia is protected laws will be made accommodate that they can't both be right one will give and with the pattern we know it's coming. All sex for minors was illegal now legislation wants to make it with in 10 years of each other is fine. Little step by little step. This has been mentioned before time and again. Look at NAMBLA and their goals this is going to fit right in with that. Ever heard of how to boil a frog? Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there. This is all off topic of course but since you opened this conversation, if you want to talk about legalizing abuse of children happening today one need only look at Arkansas and the ruling party rolling back child labor laws for a children under 16 as proof of moral decline.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2023 16:34:26 GMT -5
Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there. This is all off topic of course but since you opened this conversation, if you want to talk about legalizing abuse of children happening today one need only look at Arkansas and the ruling party rolling back child labor laws for a children under 16 as proof of moral decline. You sound desperate to avoid the way its going.....
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 15, 2023 21:22:22 GMT -5
The 10-year idea really doesn't simplify anything for anyone. The law (at least in Nevada) allows for two age-legal categories: 16-21, and 18-100, if it doesn't kill you in the meantime. That actually makes more sense, the 16-21 age category I mean. It's a problem for the occasional guy who turns 21 and has to give up his 17 year old girlfriend. But occasionally a girl's daddy gets to ruin a young man's life quite easily.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 15, 2023 21:24:43 GMT -5
This is all off topic of course but since you opened this conversation, if you want to talk about legalizing abuse of children happening today one need only look at Arkansas and the ruling party rolling back child labor laws for a children under 16 as proof of moral decline. You sound desperate to avoid the way its going.....
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 16, 2023 1:59:47 GMT -5
Wally is right. It won't be unprecedented. It was common practice in Ancient Greece and Rome, and will be tolerated again. There are already groups pushing for it to be legal. Many pedos already argue mutual consent and mutual pleasure for their activities. A few years ago we couldn't imagine a time when minors would be able to consent to life changing hormones in the form of transgenderism, but we're already there. It is sick to equate in any way loving relationships between consenting adults and the victimization of children by adults. These aren’t circumstances that are on the same continuum. Embracing the lgbtq community is not a symptom of societal decline; it is a sign of maturity and understanding. Abusing children will always be a crime. Your argument just reveals your prejudice. It doesn’t provide any proof that society is on some track to legalize abusing children. Apples and oranges. [Trigger warning for CSA surivors] Who said anything about relationships between consenting adults? I was talking specifically about pedophiles already claiming that their pedophile activities are "mutual". They claim their victim "consented". Do I need to spell this out in graphic detail? Of course they're not mutual, we're talking about adults with minors - pure abuse in every possible scenario imaginable. There can be no consent in pedophilia activity. But every time the consenting age for a minors is lowered, you're paving the way to make pedophilia more legal. You've just made their sexual relations with a minor pass from criminal to legal. Every time we pass laws giving more "rights" to minors by lowering the age of consent, we actually take away protections for them. Minors do not have fully developed brains, they are intellectually immature, and rely on us to caretake their minds and bodies until they reach maturity and can make their own decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 8:27:44 GMT -5
It is sick to equate in any way loving relationships between consenting adults and the victimization of children by adults. These aren’t circumstances that are on the same continuum. Embracing the lgbtq community is not a symptom of societal decline; it is a sign of maturity and understanding. Abusing children will always be a crime. Your argument just reveals your prejudice. It doesn’t provide any proof that society is on some track to legalize abusing children. Apples and oranges. [Trigger warning for CSA surivors] Who said anything about relationships between consenting adults? I was talking specifically about pedophiles already claiming that their pedophile activities are "mutual". They claim their victim "consented". Do I need to spell this out in graphic detail? Of course they're not mutual, we're talking about adults with minors - pure abuse in every possible scenario imaginable. There can be no consent in pedophilia activity. But every time the consenting age for a minors is lowered, you're paving the way to make pedophilia more legal. You've just made their sexual relations with a minor pass from criminal to legal. Every time we pass laws giving more "rights" to minors by lowering the age of consent, we actually take away protections for them. Minors do not have fully developed brains, they are intellectually immature, and rely on us to caretake their minds and bodies until they reach maturity and can make their own decisions. Well said...
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Post by thirtyseven on Jun 16, 2023 10:14:12 GMT -5
And while we're at it, let's change the name from "pedophile" to "minors attracted person"... "pedophile" just has too much baggage with yucky connotations. Look at how progressive we are! Oh, now let's add it to the string of identifiers LGBTQ++++. Look! We're part of that group now too!
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Post by snow on Jun 16, 2023 14:14:44 GMT -5
That actually makes more sense, the 16-21 age category I mean. It's a problem for the occasional guy who turns 21 and has to give up his 17 year old girlfriend. But occasionally a girl's daddy gets to ruin a young man's life quite easily. That's true. The law can't address all possibilities of course.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 16, 2023 19:30:22 GMT -5
And while we're at it, let's change the name from "pedophile" to "minors attracted person"... "pedophile" just has too much baggage with yucky connotations. Look at how progressive we are! Oh, now let's add it to the string of identifiers LGBTQ++++. Look! We're part of that group now too! That is indeed part of the slippery slope.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 16, 2023 20:47:24 GMT -5
It's a problem for the occasional guy who turns 21 and has to give up his 17 year old girlfriend. But occasionally a girl's daddy gets to ruin a young man's life quite easily. That's true. The law can't address all possibilities of course. I know a worker and a daddy who conspired to commit on that little loop in the law -- actually precipitated the fall of so many workers to similar prosecution!!!!!
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 19, 2023 13:27:14 GMT -5
And while we're at it, let's change the name from "pedophile" to "minors attracted person"... "pedophile" just has too much baggage with yucky connotations. Look at how progressive we are! Oh, now let's add it to the string of identifiers LGBTQ++++. Look! We're part of that group now too! That is indeed part of the slippery slope. So many of the 2x2s have never heard a proper Christian preaching like this man: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mNo3BXGfVo
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Post by deadawake on Jun 22, 2023 3:39:50 GMT -5
Hello all, I want you to understand what we’re up against. I learned last night that meeting has been removed from a home that refused to allow a convicted and prolific pedophile to attend meetings there. For some background, we have been working on this case since the inception of the hotline. It was brought to our attention that a former Worker was removed from the work for abusing kids in the early 1970’s. He then went on to marry an unsuspecting professing girl. The Workers did not warn her of her future husband’s pedophilia. The pedophile went on to abuse countless numbers of children. He was eventually arrested in the early 1980’s and served time in prison. At the time, law enforcement thought he might have between 100 and 200 victims. This is my understanding of recent events: In 2014, the pedophile was allowed to return to meetings. At first, safety measures were put in place (i.e., no meetings with children, required to sit in the front row at gospel meetings, etc.) Eventually those safety measures fell by the wayside and he was in meetings with children. When we learned of the case, some of the Friends had already been pleading with the Workers and the Overseer to have the pedophile removed from meetings because of grave concerns about his behavior. Their pleas fell on deaf ears. In April, under much pressure, the Overseer finally asked the pedophile to refrain from coming to meetings. He was allowed to call in and participate; however, within the first week, he shared a disturbing testimony and he was informed he could no longer call in. Within weeks, he showed up for meeting in person. The homeowner asked him to leave. In the past couple of weeks, meeting was removed from that home. This particular issue is dividing families, the Friends, and the community. I have interviewed six survivors whose lives were forever altered because of this pedophile. I can assure you he has left a path of destruction in his wake. Not one of the Friends or Workers advocating on behalf of the pedophile have reached out to inquire about the victims. The effort to have pedophiles removed from the fellowship is causing huge division. I cannot tell you how perplexing this is to me. Institutions have a duty to keep their communities safe -- especially the children -- and society expects it. Why are some of the Workers and Friends fighting so hard on behalf of pedophiles?Cynthia
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Post by deadawake on Jun 22, 2023 3:43:53 GMT -5
About 20 years ago my Dad was told he could no longer attend "public" gospel meetings because he remarried after divorce... the appalling irregularity in how they decide who is worthy to attend is simply mind boggling.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2023 14:26:02 GMT -5
About 20 years ago my Dad was told he could no longer attend "public" gospel meetings because he remarried after divorce... the appalling irregularity in how they decide who is worthy to attend is simply mind boggling. Pedophilia is not the only sin...except for maybe murder or being a politician it's the worst one though...
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Post by fixit on Jun 22, 2023 14:35:45 GMT -5
That actually makes more sense, the 16-21 age category I mean. It's a problem for the occasional guy who turns 21 and has to give up his 17 year old girlfriend. But occasionally a girl's daddy gets to ruin a young man's life quite easily. The age of consent for sex in New Zealand is 16. It's illegal for family members to have sex with someone under 18 though e.g. an uncle with his neice. So it seems strange to me that a 17 year old is considered a child in America. Especially when a 17 year old can join the US military.
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Post by fixit on Jun 22, 2023 14:41:37 GMT -5
About 20 years ago my Dad was told he could no longer attend "public" gospel meetings because he remarried after divorce... the appalling irregularity in how they decide who is worthy to attend is simply mind boggling. Pedophilia is not the only sin...except for maybe murder or being a politician it's the worst one though... Then you should give up your political views.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2023 15:04:16 GMT -5
Pedophilia is not the only sin...except for maybe murder or being a politician it's the worst one though... Then you should give up your political views. Not a politician like yourself, If so, you should definitely give up yours socialist, the epitome of sin...
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Post by jf on Jun 23, 2023 12:24:14 GMT -5
The effort to have pedophiles removed from the fellowship is causing huge division. I cannot tell you how perplexing this is to me. Institutions have a duty to keep their communities safe -- especially the children -- and society expects it. Why are some of the Workers and Friends fighting so hard on behalf of pedophiles?Cynthia Firstly I would like to thank you and others for the time and effort you are investing in exposing wrongdoing and criminal activity within the 2x2 fellowship. It is very much appreciated I understand that it was a particular case that led you to write the post that ended with the paragraph I have included above. It's not the case itself that I want to comment about - rather, there are a couple of things I would like to mention regarding the above quote. 1) I agree that churches have a duty to keep their communities safe. This definitely includes responsibilities to children. Each denomination/church decides though, what that will look like in practice within their denomination/church. The minimum safeguards are those required legally but those are a minimum only. The goal is that excellent safeguarding decisions are made whenever CSA cases arise and that these are then properly implemented and monitored to ensure they remain effective as time goes by. This does not equate to insisting that pedophiles MUST of necessity be removed from attending all fellowship meetings ad infinitum (unless legally required in that geographical region). The church's safeguarding team are the ones who should propose to the church what the safeguarding policy should be. It should not be imposed from outside the church (apart from the legal 'minimums'). 2) The church's safeguarding policy is the one the church decides will keep their communities safe. We want sound, responsible people in the church making decisions on this. They will very likely seek advice regarding their policy. I suggest that what society expects the church to do on this isn't too relevant. I hope the day doesn't come when the yardstick for important church decisions (which includes safeguarding policy) is linked to what society expects. Rather, the policy needs to meet legal requirements but above all needs to meet the bar set by faithful Christian teaching. 3) You may be seeing something that I don't see as regards Workers and Friends fighting hard on behalf of pedophiles. I'm sure most of us church people could do much better in providing the right type and level of support when CSA cases arise in our area. I hope that Workers and friends grow in providing good Christian support to their brothers and sisters (and their children) regardless of how they are involved in the case. Doing this well will require great care and wisdom. I hope that no-one in a CSA case gets left totally isolated and excluded by their church. If the perpetrator isn't repentant then exclusion may well be needed, but in that case effort should also be made to lead them to acknowledge their wrong and need of repentance. Care for all involved should be part of the church policy. Lastly, to end where I began, thank you for your efforts to help cleanse the fellowship.
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Post by fixit on Jun 23, 2023 12:48:44 GMT -5
Then you should give up your political views. Not a politician like yourself, If so, you should definitely give up yours socialist, the epitome of sin... Too bad you weren't around a couple thousand years ago - Watchman Wally was needed to put those Christians right about the epitome of sin.... Acts 2: 44 All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 12:53:50 GMT -5
Not a politician like yourself, If so, you should definitely give up yours socialist, the epitome of sin... Too bad you weren't around a couple thousand years ago - Watchman Wally was needed to put those Christians right about the epitome of sin.... Acts 2: 44 All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. Voluntary Einstein, not what you want and see now Authoritarian which is as far from Christ as you can get...I would say oblivious but I'm thinking you are more manipulative than that...
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Post by RSR on Jun 24, 2023 1:34:09 GMT -5
Too bad you weren't around a couple thousand years ago - Watchman Wally was needed to put those Christians right about the epitome of sin.... Acts 2: 44 All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. Acts 4:32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. Voluntary Einstein, not what you want and see now Authoritarian which is as far from Christ as you can get...I would say oblivious but I'm thinking you are more manipulative than that... Ladies, This is not the place for this conversation. Please take your divisive political ramblings to another thread.
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Post by christiansburg on Jun 24, 2023 8:03:18 GMT -5
Pedophilia is not the only sin...except for maybe murder or being a politician it's the worst one though... Then you should give up your political views. Too much division on divorce and remarriage. Our East and West workers (ministers) will never get this right--EVER-- because each think they are right. This will only be settled at the return of Christ. Sad but true.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 9:01:28 GMT -5
Voluntary Einstein, not what you want and see now Authoritarian which is as far from Christ as you can get...I would say oblivious but I'm thinking you are more manipulative than that... Ladies, This is not the place for this conversation. Please take your divisive political ramblings to another thread. As is with most forums things go OT quite often. Scroll by, block or leave the forum to avoid that might be an option for you..
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 24, 2023 9:54:03 GMT -5
Then you should give up your political views. Too much division on divorce and remarriage. Our East and West workers (ministers) will never get this right--EVER-- because each think they are right. This will only be settled at the return of Christ. Sad but true. I heard that it had been settled but the CSA scandal blew up before the workers could roll it out. Seems politically untenable at the moment to take away parts and pull meetings out of homes throughout the East
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