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Post by jonathan on Jun 2, 2023 12:41:17 GMT -5
I was asked to post this.
Clint Bechdolt - (everyone in the tent was on the edge of their seats and hung on every word, as he spoke very solemnly, directly and boldly) at Walla Walla convention, Washington State, June 2023
Have you ever had a friend that you really, really wanted to help, but you couldn't? Sometimes there are just no words, nothing you can do. We know Jesus can help. I don't know how, I can't. My friend suffered horribly. One person gave my friend what I thought was good advice... "You've spent too much time pretending to be okay. You just need to be what you are."
It's possible to pretend that we're okay, when things aren't okay. We become like the Pharisees, like hypocrites. The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. We need to be real. Be honest. Don't pretend like everything's okay when it's not.
Isaiah 1. There are times in the bible when individuals sinned and got off track. And there are times when God's people as a whole got off track. This was one of those times. It was very dark. I feel like we're in one of those times right now. We can't just pretend everything's okay. I'm going to read most of the chapter, starting in vs. 2 (read through to vs. 21)
vs. 14 Even their whole structure of worship and sacrifice became an abomination to God. I feel like this is the state of the kingdom right now. Pretending to be okay when we're not okay. Our prayers, our testimonies, our sacrifices could be an abomination to God. So what do you do about it? vs. 16 The evil has to be dealt with.
Judges 19. I apologize in advance that this isn't a positive message, or if I'm off base at all. We workers try to speak what's from the heart of God, but I'm sometimes not sure what percentage actually is. But we try.
In Judges 19, there was a Levite who had a concubine. I don't pretend to understand why God's people would ever have a concubine, but he did. His concubine ran away to her father's house. This Levite went to go get her back. The father plead that they'd stay another day, so they did. And then he asked if she could stay another day, and so they did. And then asked them to stay another day, and so on. I think it was the 6th day they finally left to go back home. I wonder if this father had some intuition that she wasn't safe, and he wanted to protect her by keeping her there. But finally he let them go. They travelled, and needed to stop for the night, but they didn't want to stop in the city of the Jebusites (vs. 11), so they kept travelling until they got to Gibeah, which was a city of the tribe of Benjamin, their brethren. I think they didn't want to stop in the foreign land because they thought it wouldn't be safe... that's one thing, there's certain things we expect of the world, or are cautious about, because it's the world. But when we're with those we trust, we let our guard down. Because we expect to be able to trust them. Someone invited them to stay in their house, but then some men came and wanted to abuse him. I'm not sure why, but he gave them his concubine instead. And then they abused her all night. And then after all that, he said to her "get up, get up", as if she could after all of that. Is that what we say to a victim? "Get up, get up"? She died, and he cut up her body into twelve pieces and sent a piece to each of the tribes of Israel.
And then in vs. 30 it says "Consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". That's what we need to do... "consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". Then there was an uprising. Vs. 2 of the next chapter says there were 400,000 men that came up. It wasn't an uprising of rebellion, but an uprising of righteousness. They were hurting and sad. They were wanting to take action. They didn't go with a wicked motive, but with a good and righteous motive.
Going forward, we need to live in reality. This has been my reality the last little while, and my friend's reality. God lives in reality. It's not all blessing and rainbows and sunshine. God lives in reality and we want to be where He is. I wish I could skip to Isaiah 40 where he says "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people", but we're not there yet. We need to be honest about where we're at.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jun 2, 2023 15:07:04 GMT -5
This is courage. #Respect
One The best pieces of life advice I have ever received was “The quickest way to move from ‘here’ to ‘there’ is to be scrupulously honest with yourself with everything.”
Still, my heart is afraid for so many of "God's little ones" and the magnitude of what they are up against.
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Post by Admin on Jun 2, 2023 18:01:26 GMT -5
Brave. Honest.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 2, 2023 18:07:09 GMT -5
Hmmm Clint is reading the Old Testament in it's entirety...
That reminds me of a joke....What's the difference between Clint and a hardcore atheist?
Answer: 3 months
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Post by mod5 on Jun 2, 2023 18:16:55 GMT -5
These honest young workers need to be in our prayers as they attempt to speak what God has convicted them to say.. Maybe convention time over the next few months will provide the opportunity for workers such as Clint to speak the truth in love and put pressure on Oversees to deal with this mess properly.
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Post by bigtrax on Jun 2, 2023 19:14:48 GMT -5
I have tremendous respect for this young man. Very well expressed. Not being there it would have been interesting to hear / see the very next speaker! How could one say anything else but to echo similar thoughts? Hopefully more will follow.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 2, 2023 23:49:13 GMT -5
I have tremendous respect for this young man. Very well expressed. Not being there it would have been interesting to hear / see the very next speaker! How could one say anything else but to echo similar thoughts? Hopefully more will follow. A hard act to follow. Raw honesty. The inconvenient truth.
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Post by chuck on Jun 3, 2023 6:34:07 GMT -5
As sincere as he sounds I see not much changing when the system is referred to "the kingdom" and the people within that system are "God's people"........this is the culmination of all the problems.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 3, 2023 8:03:32 GMT -5
Thanks for posting Jonathan. You and he seem to be of the same ilk (that's definitely a compliment!).
Not sure how long you'll therefore both last in this ministry though.
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Post by Ron Walton on Jun 3, 2023 9:00:53 GMT -5
Thanks for posting Jonathan. You and he seem to be of the same ilk (that's definitely a compliment!). Not sure how long you'll therefore both last in this ministry though. The possibility exists that one’s like Clint will be pushed out leaving just the rotten, putrid core protecting the status quo.
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Post by snow on Jun 3, 2023 16:06:37 GMT -5
I was asked to post this. Clint Bechdolt - (everyone in the tent was on the edge of their seats and hung on every word, as he spoke very solemnly, directly and boldly) at Walla Walla convention, Washington State, June 2023 Have you ever had a friend that you really, really wanted to help, but you couldn't? Sometimes there are just no words, nothing you can do. We know Jesus can help. I don't know how, I can't. My friend suffered horribly. One person gave my friend what I thought was good advice... "You've spent too much time pretending to be okay. You just need to be what you are." It's possible to pretend that we're okay, when things aren't okay. We become like the Pharisees, like hypocrites. The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. We need to be real. Be honest. Don't pretend like everything's okay when it's not. Isaiah 1. There are times in the bible when individuals sinned and got off track. And there are times when God's people as a whole got off track. This was one of those times. It was very dark. I feel like we're in one of those times right now. We can't just pretend everything's okay. I'm going to read most of the chapter, starting in vs. 2 (read through to vs. 21) vs. 14 Even their whole structure of worship and sacrifice became an abomination to God. I feel like this is the state of the kingdom right now. Pretending to be okay when we're not okay. Our prayers, our testimonies, our sacrifices could be an abomination to God. So what do you do about it? vs. 16 The evil has to be dealt with. Judges 19. I apologize in advance that this isn't a positive message, or if I'm off base at all. We workers try to speak what's from the heart of God, but I'm sometimes not sure what percentage actually is. But we try. In Judges 19, there was a Levite who had a concubine. I don't pretend to understand why God's people would ever have a concubine, but he did. His concubine ran away to her father's house. This Levite went to go get her back. The father plead that they'd stay another day, so they did. And then he asked if she could stay another day, and so they did. And then asked them to stay another day, and so on. I think it was the 6th day they finally left to go back home. I wonder if this father had some intuition that she wasn't safe, and he wanted to protect her by keeping her there. But finally he let them go. They travelled, and needed to stop for the night, but they didn't want to stop in the city of the Jebusites (vs. 11), so they kept travelling until they got to Gibeah, which was a city of the tribe of Benjamin, their brethren. I think they didn't want to stop in the foreign land because they thought it wouldn't be safe... that's one thing, there's certain things we expect of the world, or are cautious about, because it's the world. But when we're with those we trust, we let our guard down. Because we expect to be able to trust them. Someone invited them to stay in their house, but then some men came and wanted to abuse him. I'm not sure why, but he gave them his concubine instead. And then they abused her all night. And then after all that, he said to her "get up, get up", as if she could after all of that. Is that what we say to a victim? "Get up, get up"? She died, and he cut up her body into twelve pieces and sent a piece to each of the tribes of Israel. And then in vs. 30 it says "Consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". That's what we need to do... "consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". Then there was an uprising. Vs. 2 of the next chapter says there were 400,000 men that came up. It wasn't an uprising of rebellion, but an uprising of righteousness. They were hurting and sad. They were wanting to take action. They didn't go with a wicked motive, but with a good and righteous motive. Going forward, we need to live in reality. This has been my reality the last little while, and my friend's reality. God lives in reality. It's not all blessing and rainbows and sunshine. God lives in reality and we want to be where He is. I wish I could skip to Isaiah 40 where he says "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people", but we're not there yet. We need to be honest about where we're at. Ok, that was good. I sure hope that many more workers get up and do exactly what he did. Recognize that there are big problems that need to be solved and that until they are solved no comfort can be given. kudos to his bravery to actually stand up at convention and say that.
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Post by Umfolozi on Jun 3, 2023 19:56:52 GMT -5
I was asked to post this. Clint Bechdolt - (everyone in the tent was on the edge of their seats and hung on every word, as he spoke very solemnly, directly and boldly) at Walla Walla convention, Washington State, June 2023 Have you ever had a friend that you really, really wanted to help, but you couldn't? Sometimes there are just no words, nothing you can do. We know Jesus can help. I don't know how, I can't. My friend suffered horribly. One person gave my friend what I thought was good advice... "You've spent too much time pretending to be okay. You just need to be what you are." It's possible to pretend that we're okay, when things aren't okay. We become like the Pharisees, like hypocrites. The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy. We need to be real. Be honest. Don't pretend like everything's okay when it's not. Isaiah 1. There are times in the bible when individuals sinned and got off track. And there are times when God's people as a whole got off track. This was one of those times. It was very dark. I feel like we're in one of those times right now. We can't just pretend everything's okay. I'm going to read most of the chapter, starting in vs. 2 (read through to vs. 21) vs. 14 Even their whole structure of worship and sacrifice became an abomination to God. I feel like this is the state of the kingdom right now. Pretending to be okay when we're not okay. Our prayers, our testimonies, our sacrifices could be an abomination to God. So what do you do about it? vs. 16 The evil has to be dealt with. Judges 19. I apologize in advance that this isn't a positive message, or if I'm off base at all. We workers try to speak what's from the heart of God, but I'm sometimes not sure what percentage actually is. But we try. In Judges 19, there was a Levite who had a concubine. I don't pretend to understand why God's people would ever have a concubine, but he did. His concubine ran away to her father's house. This Levite went to go get her back. The father plead that they'd stay another day, so they did. And then he asked if she could stay another day, and so they did. And then asked them to stay another day, and so on. I think it was the 6th day they finally left to go back home. I wonder if this father had some intuition that she wasn't safe, and he wanted to protect her by keeping her there. But finally he let them go. They travelled, and needed to stop for the night, but they didn't want to stop in the city of the Jebusites (vs. 11), so they kept travelling until they got to Gibeah, which was a city of the tribe of Benjamin, their brethren. I think they didn't want to stop in the foreign land because they thought it wouldn't be safe... that's one thing, there's certain things we expect of the world, or are cautious about, because it's the world. But when we're with those we trust, we let our guard down. Because we expect to be able to trust them. Someone invited them to stay in their house, but then some men came and wanted to abuse him. I'm not sure why, but he gave them his concubine instead. And then they abused her all night. And then after all that, he said to her "get up, get up", as if she could after all of that. Is that what we say to a victim? "Get up, get up"? She died, and he cut up her body into twelve pieces and sent a piece to each of the tribes of Israel. And then in vs. 30 it says "Consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". That's what we need to do... "consider it, take advice, and speak your minds". Then there was an uprising. Vs. 2 of the next chapter says there were 400,000 men that came up. It wasn't an uprising of rebellion, but an uprising of righteousness. They were hurting and sad. They were wanting to take action. They didn't go with a wicked motive, but with a good and righteous motive. Going forward, we need to live in reality. This has been my reality the last little while, and my friend's reality. God lives in reality. It's not all blessing and rainbows and sunshine. God lives in reality and we want to be where He is. I wish I could skip to Isaiah 40 where he says "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people", but we're not there yet. We need to be honest about where we're at. I can't stomach this, I am missing the message I know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 22:03:00 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, would it be ok to have both kinds of messages at convention? One like this and also comfort. There will be a lot of innocent friends and workers at that convention who are saddened and heartsick by what has happened, and they aren't guilty. What can they do about these filthy, disgusting acts perpetrated on innocent people? They aren't complicit, they don't want that amongst them. I think what was said is good, but could they also have the message of comfort? The old people who don't understand and the children that are so innocent. Could a message of comfort be appropriate for them? And for workers who are about to burst at the seams with grief, anger, and fear. Would it be ok to comfort them?
Maybe any softness and support offered would seem out of place?
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Post by matisse on Jun 4, 2023 3:11:34 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, would it be ok to have both kinds of messages at convention? One like this and also comfort. There will be a lot of innocent friends and workers at that convention who are saddened and heartsick by what has happened, and they aren't guilty. What can they do about these filthy, disgusting acts perpetrated on innocent people? They aren't complicit, they don't want that amongst them. I think what was said is good, but could they also have the message of comfort? The old people who don't understand and the children that are so innocent. Could a message of comfort be appropriate for them? And for workers who are about to burst at the seams with grief, anger, and fear. Would it be ok to comfort them? Maybe any softness and support offered would seem out of place? What would the message of comfort be? The group is not much more than a century old, and we can confirm that this nonsense involving the highest levels of leadership has been going on for decades, and we cannot rule out the possibility that it has been going on since the very beginning of the group. The picture is bleak. How much of the hiding of criminal behavior over the decades has been "justified" as necessary to protect the faith and "comfort" of the faithful from the bleakness of it all? My testimony of support and comfort would be, "If you are questioning your faith and afraid, please come to talk to me. I lost my faith, was devastated, AND lived to find joy, peace, and purpose in life after god. There are many of us. We can help. We would love to help."
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2023 13:05:47 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, would it be ok to have both kinds of messages at convention? One like this and also comfort. There will be a lot of innocent friends and workers at that convention who are saddened and heartsick by what has happened, and they aren't guilty. What can they do about these filthy, disgusting acts perpetrated on innocent people? They aren't complicit, they don't want that amongst them. I think what was said is good, but could they also have the message of comfort? The old people who don't understand and the children that are so innocent. Could a message of comfort be appropriate for them? And for workers who are about to burst at the seams with grief, anger, and fear. Would it be ok to comfort them? Maybe any softness and support offered would seem out of place? I don't see why not. Comfort is never out of line as long as it's sincere and accompanied with acknowledgement of the problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2023 20:00:27 GMT -5
I don't see why not. Comfort is never out of line as long as it's sincere and accompanied with acknowledgement of the problems. This past year one of our local workers spoke in gospel meeting about there being comforting messages and correct messages, and there is a need to speak a message that is both comforting and correct. They were speaking in the context of comforting mourners, but it just came back to me. Yes, comforting and correct. I was mostly thinking of messages about Jesus. That is a comfort to me, to hear about Him and the power of God.
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Post by 4sagacity on Jun 12, 2023 7:36:46 GMT -5
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Post by stargazer on Jun 12, 2023 8:22:53 GMT -5
Its unfortunate this man needs to step down. It’ll be easier, then to detract from his message of concern with an allegation that he was unstable. I hope that’s not the focus but rather the validity of his message.0
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Post by haggard on Jun 14, 2023 0:12:51 GMT -5
This past year one of our local workers spoke in gospel meeting about there being comforting messages and correct messages, and there is a need to speak a message that is both comforting and correct. They were speaking in the context of comforting mourners, but it just came back to me. Yes, comforting and correct. I was mostly thinking of messages about Jesus. That is a comfort to me, to hear about Him and the power of God. reminds me of a beer l had one time...really hit the spot
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Post by margaret on Jun 15, 2023 10:20:20 GMT -5
I appreciate Clint’s message and completely understand why he would leave. That message is outside of the box. He’s basically encouraging an orderly revolt. God’s message will not return to Him empty so it’s going to be interesting to see the results.
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