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Post by mountain on Jun 30, 2023 8:40:54 GMT -5
As Wally has attested to more than once in the past that it is an evil and adulterous generation that seeks a sign. The miracles were signs that Jesus and the first disciples worked to confirm they represented God and his message. Nicodemus came to Jesus by night (clandestine behaviour from an evil and adulterous generation), having been sent by the Sanhedrin to do it secretly in case the people saw him, and said 'Rabbi, we (the Sanhedrin) know that thou art a teacher come from God because no man could do the works that you do except that God be with him.'
Right there the Jewish leaders knew that Jesus had come from God because of the signs that accompanied him, but they didn't want to change their ways. They proved they were an evil and adulterous generation who not only sought signs as proof, but ended up rejecting that proof because it did not suit them.
God's power is in his word. It has the power to save people, not the signs. That power comes from believing in God's word. It does not need signs and wonders. Many have believed in God through hearing his word only. That is what God wants, for people to take him at his word, not proving himself through signs. The just are to live by faith in the word of God, not through proof of signs. Goodness me, has Wally not told you this time after time, but like Nicodemus's buddies you reject it.
The signs were primarily for the Jews at the transitional period between the Old Law and the new covenant of Grace where the Holy Spirit is sent to convict and comfort sinners/believers. Those who seek signs have their hearts in the wrong place. The Jews sought a sign (which they rejected) but the Greeks (gentiles) sought knowledge.
In Jewish tradition truth of a matter was established by the testimony of two or more credible eye witnesses whose evidence coincided. Jesus sent his messengers out in this fashion, complying with the cultural standards of the time. Sending out his messengers in pairs was sending sufficient testimony to the Jews, but that wasn't enough. They were given additional power to prove their word above any doubt, but an evil generation didn't want the truth and so rejected it.
It is a blessed thing to hear the Gospel, receive it unto yourself and be convicted by it. Signs and wonders are by and large not for God's people.
(Wally)
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Post by margaret on Jun 30, 2023 16:58:38 GMT -5
As Wally has attested to more than once in the past that it is an evil and adulterous generation that seeks a sign. The miracles were signs that Jesus and the first disciples worked to confirm they represented God and his message. Nicodemus came to Jesus by night (clandestine behaviour from an evil and adulterous generation), having been sent by the Sanhedrin to do it secretly in case the people saw him, and said 'Rabbi, we (the Sanhedrin) know that thou art a teacher come from God because no man could do the works that you do except that God be with him.' Right there the Jewish leaders knew that Jesus had come from God because of the signs that accompanied him, but they didn't want to change their ways. They proved they were an evil and adulterous generation who not only sought signs as proof, but ended up rejecting that proof because it did not suit them. God's power is in his word. It has the power to save people, not the signs. That power comes from believing in God's word. It does not need signs and wonders. Many have believed in God through hearing his word only. That is what God wants, for people to take him at his word, not proving himself through signs. The just are to live by faith in the word of God, not through proof of signs. Goodness me, has Wally not told you this time after time, but like Nicodemus's buddies you reject it. The signs were primarily for the Jews at the transitional period between the Old Law and the new covenant of Grace where the Holy Spirit is sent to convict and comfort sinners/believers. Those who seek signs have their hearts in the wrong place. The Jews sought a sign (which they rejected) but the Greeks (gentiles) sought knowledge. In Jewish tradition truth of a matter was established by the testimony of two or more credible eye witnesses whose evidence coincided. Jesus sent his messengers out in this fashion, complying with the cultural standards of the time. Sending out his messengers in pairs was sending sufficient testimony to the Jews, but that wasn't enough. They were given additional power to prove their word above any doubt, but an evil generation didn't want the truth and so rejected it. It is a blessed thing to hear the Gospel, receive it unto yourself and be convicted by it. Signs and wonders are by and large not for God's people. (Wally) Jesus asked if there would be fathers on earth before he comes. Without faith there’s no healing. There’s no way there could be healing today. The majority swallow the beliefs of mankind similar to what you have described above. (It was only for a certain time, yadda yadda). The disciples and the apostles all performed signs and wonders as did Jesus. Yet the people still wanted a sign. The devil and his angels also do signs and wonders. Have you ever met anyone who had a power to change your situation drastically in a way nothing and nobody else could do? If you have then you know without a doubt that healing is very much possible but the cost is great and the persecution would be severe. I don’t think there’s anyone left with that kind of power. If they did they wouldn’t be any more welcome in the truth today as Jesus was in the “truth” of his day. You’re welcome to your beliefs but I have seen a few things that prove to me that it has been possible for TRUE ministers to do signs and wonders. As for if I think it’s possible today, it seems highly unlikely. Probably at the point of impossible. But Jesus prophesied about these things so that’s just how it is. As for the quest for knowledge, the bible prophesies that before he comes, man will run to and fro and knowledge will increase. Pretty much sums up our present day.
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Post by fixit on Jul 1, 2023 0:37:33 GMT -5
Without faith there’s no healing. There’s no way there could be healing today. The majority swallow the beliefs of mankind similar to what you have described above. (It was only for a certain time, yadda yadda). The disciples and the apostles all performed signs and wonders as did Jesus. Yet the people still wanted a sign. The devil and his angels also do signs and wonders. Have you ever met anyone who had a power to change your situation drastically in a way nothing and nobody else could do? If you have then you know without a doubt that healing is very much possible but the cost is great and the persecution would be severe. I don’t think there’s anyone left with that kind of power. If they did they wouldn’t be any more welcome in the truth today as Jesus was in the “truth” of his day. You’re welcome to your beliefs but I have seen a few things that prove to me that it has been possible for TRUE ministers to do signs and wonders. As for if I think it’s possible today, it seems highly unlikely. Probably at the point of impossible. But Jesus prophesied about these things so that’s just how it is. As for the quest for knowledge, the bible prophesies that before he comes, man will run to and fro and knowledge will increase. Pretty much sums up our present day. The church has the opportunity to do signs and wonders today... ...like banishing sexual immorality and child abuse and becoming a group of individuals who are gracious, compassionate, slow to anger and rich in mercy toward all past victims of abuse within the church. Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children, 2 and walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3 But sexual immorality and impurity of any kind or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no sexually immoral or impure person or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be associated with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now in the Lord you are light. Walk as children of light, 9 for the fruit of the light is found in all that is good and right and true. 10 Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness; rather, expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what such people do secretly, 13 but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Sleeper, awake! Rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” 15 Be careful, then, how you live, not as unwise people but as wise
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Post by jonathan on Jul 1, 2023 1:40:11 GMT -5
Without faith there’s no healing. There’s no way there could be healing today. The majority swallow the beliefs of mankind similar to what you have described above. (It was only for a certain time, yadda yadda). The disciples and the apostles all performed signs and wonders as did Jesus. Yet the people still wanted a sign. The devil and his angels also do signs and wonders. Have you ever met anyone who had a power to change your situation drastically in a way nothing and nobody else could do? If you have then you know without a doubt that healing is very much possible but the cost is great and the persecution would be severe. I don’t think there’s anyone left with that kind of power. If they did they wouldn’t be any more welcome in the truth today as Jesus was in the “truth” of his day. You’re welcome to your beliefs but I have seen a few things that prove to me that it has been possible for TRUE ministers to do signs and wonders. As for if I think it’s possible today, it seems highly unlikely. Probably at the point of impossible. But Jesus prophesied about these things so that’s just how it is. As for the quest for knowledge, the bible prophesies that before he comes, man will run to and fro and knowledge will increase. Pretty much sums up our present day. The church has the opportunity to do signs and wonders today... ...like banishing sexual immorality and child abuse and becoming a group of individuals who are gracious, compassionate, slow to anger and rich in mercy toward all past victims of abuse within the church. Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children, 2 and walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3 But sexual immorality and impurity of any kind or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no sexually immoral or impure person or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be associated with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now in the Lord you are light. Walk as children of light, 9 for the fruit of the light is found in all that is good and right and true. 10 Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness; rather, expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what such people do secretly, 13 but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Sleeper, awake! Rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.” 15 Be careful, then, how you live, not as unwise people but as wise It would be a powerful sign it scripture relating to sexual immorality is respected and applied!
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2023 7:38:41 GMT -5
Matt Jensen from Illinois (Head worker) has stepped down indefinitely! See Matt Jensen letter in separate thread.
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Post by Admin on Jul 11, 2023 18:32:19 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2023 17:03:27 GMT -5
I notice that a male senior worker that was list for a field in England has now had his name removed from the list I am told he is not in attendance at Irish conventions which are on at present because he was sent home I don't know why he was sent home
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Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2023 17:04:37 GMT -5
Thanks That is most interesting as JG was in the work in Ireland up until the end of the mission this year and was Craig Fulton's companion Regarding JJ does anyone know were the allegations from Romania or Ireland Is NN professing now I know he attended Noel Tanner's funeral some years back
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Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2023 17:05:58 GMT -5
Irish, English, Scottish and other Workers arrived at Carrick Convention Grounds on Monday last 10th July and parted Friday 14th July Does anybody know if it is right that a brother worker has now gone home If this is right Reason
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Post by randyt on Jul 21, 2023 19:59:51 GMT -5
Admin and elizabethcoleman Was ET PROSECUTED and CONVICTED or is this more hearsay and supposition being posted as fact? 20 May 23- DM, a sister worker who labored in Atlantic Canada and Ontario, has been removed from the work due to allegations. 20 May 23 - Multiple allegations of CSA against ET, former overseer of California, Nevada, Arizona and Pacific Islands from 1974-2003, and who died in 2003, have been brought to light in the past week. 22 May 23 - EN, an elder in South Dakota, has been removed from meetings - at least through the end of 2023 - due to allegations of child sexual assault, as well as alleged texting and requesting lewd material from an adult female. And if it is an allegation, then why are initials NOT being used? Has there been ANY proof or ANY specific information put forward, dates/times, place(s), specific act(s), number of times?
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Post by neighbour on Jul 22, 2023 10:41:32 GMT -5
Admin and elizabethcoleman Was ET PROSECUTED and CONVICTED or is this more hearsay and supposition being posted as fact? 20 May 23- DM, a sister worker who labored in Atlantic Canada and Ontario, has been removed from the work due to allegations. 20 May 23 - Multiple allegations of CSA against ET, former overseer of California, Nevada, Arizona and Pacific Islands from 1974-2003, and who died in 2003, have been brought to light in the past week. 22 May 23 - EN, an elder in South Dakota, has been removed from meetings - at least through the end of 2023 - due to allegations of child sexual assault, as well as alleged texting and requesting lewd material from an adult female. And if it is an allegation, then why are initials NOT being used? Has there been ANY proof or ANY specific information put forward, dates/times, place(s), specific act(s), number of times? Hi Randy, I'm not aware of any public information regarding allegations against ET. Generally if someone's name appears on this list it means the investigative team does have private documentation to back it up. From what I can tell, they release the names of those who have many allegations or who may have had a lot of exposure in order to encourage other victims to speak up. There are complains against over 400 people but only a minority have been publicized thus far.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 22, 2023 15:09:42 GMT -5
Admin and elizabethcoleman Was ET PROSECUTED and CONVICTED or is this more hearsay and supposition being posted as fact? 20 May 23- DM, a sister worker who labored in Atlantic Canada and Ontario, has been removed from the work due to allegations. 20 May 23 - Multiple allegations of CSA against ET, former overseer of California, Nevada, Arizona and Pacific Islands from 1974-2003, and who died in 2003, have been brought to light in the past week. 22 May 23 - EN, an elder in South Dakota, has been removed from meetings - at least through the end of 2023 - due to allegations of child sexual assault, as well as alleged texting and requesting lewd material from an adult female. And if it is an allegation, then why are initials NOT being used? Has there been ANY proof or ANY specific information put forward, dates/times, place(s), specific act(s), number of times? Hi Randy, I'm not aware of any public information regarding allegations against ET. Generally if someone's name appears on this list it means the investigative team does have private documentation to back it up. From what I can tell, they release the names of those who have many allegations or who may have had a lot of exposure in order to encourage other victims to speak up. There are complains against over 400 people but only a minority have been publicized thus far. Do we know what constitutes a complaint? It seems it’s an abuse list rather than a CSA list?
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Post by openingact34 on Jul 22, 2023 16:00:23 GMT -5
Admin and elizabethcoleman Was ET PROSECUTED and CONVICTED or is this more hearsay and supposition being posted as fact? 20 May 23- DM, a sister worker who labored in Atlantic Canada and Ontario, has been removed from the work due to allegations. 20 May 23 - Multiple allegations of CSA against ET, former overseer of California, Nevada, Arizona and Pacific Islands from 1974-2003, and who died in 2003, have been brought to light in the past week. 22 May 23 - EN, an elder in South Dakota, has been removed from meetings - at least through the end of 2023 - due to allegations of child sexual assault, as well as alleged texting and requesting lewd material from an adult female. And if it is an allegation, then why are initials NOT being used? Has there been ANY proof or ANY specific information put forward, dates/times, place(s), specific act(s), number of times? The Advocates for Truth website seems to be the source of these allegations and keepers of the specific information that you are asking about. They have a phone number you can call. www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/eldon-tenniswood
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Post by randyt on Jul 24, 2023 14:59:03 GMT -5
Admin and elizabethcoleman Was ET PROSECUTED and CONVICTED or is this more hearsay and supposition being posted as fact? 20 May 23- DM, a sister worker who labored in Atlantic Canada and Ontario, has been removed from the work due to allegations. 20 May 23 - Multiple allegations of CSA against ET, former overseer of California, Nevada, Arizona and Pacific Islands from 1974-2003, and who died in 2003, have been brought to light in the past week. 22 May 23 - EN, an elder in South Dakota, has been removed from meetings - at least through the end of 2023 - due to allegations of child sexual assault, as well as alleged texting and requesting lewd material from an adult female. And if it is an allegation, then why are initials NOT being used? Has there been ANY proof or ANY specific information put forward, dates/times, place(s), specific act(s), number of times? The Advocates for Truth website seems to be the source of these allegations and keepers of the specific information that you are asking about. They have a phone number you can call. www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/eldon-tenniswoodAhhhh, got it. So, if it's posted on the internet, it must be true. LOL
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Post by snow on Jul 24, 2023 16:31:20 GMT -5
randyt no if it's posted on the internet it's not necessarily true. If it's posted by Lauryn, Sheri or Cynthia it's likely true and if what is posted by those who were targets and survivors of CSA then believing the survivor over the the abuser is probably something you should consider. Do you not believe what all of these survivors of CSA are saying? If you don't, why don't you?
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2023 20:24:18 GMT -5
Hazel Williams steps aside
Good morning everyone.
This morning, it’s with a very heavy heart that I send this message to you all.
We need to pass on a little note to everyone, to say that Hazel feels that it’s time for her to step aside from the work, partly because there has been an allegation brought against her, from many years ago. So in this time of stress, it seems that this is the best decision to make. We’re very sorry that she has had to come to this decision, but we do agree that it’s probably the best choice for her right now.
Your brother, Carson
Note: Issued by overseer Carson Wallace.
Hazel had been assigned to various fields in Ontario, Canada since the 1970's.
Carson subsequently advised that the allegation was not CSA. See 'Carson Wallace – additional information re Hazel Williams'
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2023 20:28:36 GMT -5
Carson Wallace – additional information re Hazel Williams
From: Carson Wallace Date: October 2, 2023 at 12:25:46 PM
Subject: Clarification
Just want to clarify: the message that I sent this morning concerning Hazel could be sent to the Church or kept until anyone asks. By the way, this allegation was not CSA.
Your brother, Carson
See also 'Hazel Williams steps aside' (above post)
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Post by Admin on Jan 8, 2024 16:06:32 GMT -5
Time line of what has happened since the Bruer case broke.Timeline in thread on 'members-only' boardsnow has provided this list from the 'Exposing Abuse' 2x2's Facebook page. It includes the names of those who have allegations against them. Please be aware and keep in mind that there is the possibility of false allegations arising from hear-say being passed on (the compilers of this list will not have had the chance to verify every name and allegation). However, having a documented listing like this of the historical facts seems important, considering all the secrecy and lack of transparency by some in leadership on the one hand, and all the gossiping on the other. The compilers of this list provide the following notes: - TIMELINE OF EVENTS since we shared The Dean Bruer Letter on 3/23/23;
- This timeline notes events or changes since The Dean Bruer Letter;
- Timeline dates are listed most recent to oldest;
- Not everyone on this list has allegations of abuse;
- Allegations/accusations do NOT mean someone has committed, been convicted of, or charged with a crime;
- You can view, download, email, or share this timeline in PDF form from this link. The same link will be updated frequently.
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Post by Admin on Apr 23, 2024 22:50:12 GMT -5
Glenn Sparks steps away due to allegations
April 2024
Oregon/S. Idaho/Wyoming/Montana overseer Doyle Smith has reported that Glenn Sparks is ‘stepping away’ due to allegations of abuse. Glenn Sparks has been a worker since approximately 1963, in Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Florida, and Georgia.
From: D Smith <email redacted> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 10:39 PM
Dear Friends, This finds Lyle and I in the Boise area for a few more weeks. We have meetings scheduled the next month in Mountain Home on Sundays and continue here in Meridian on Wed. nights. We are MOST thankful for our loyal listeners.
I’m sorry to have to include the news that follows: An allegation of abuse against Glenn Sparks has surfaced regarding an incident that reportedly happened many years ago in Oregon. In response, this was immediately reported to authorities, and Glenn has stepped away from the work and meetings pending a legal investigation. We respect survivors, and will do all we can to support them. If anyone has any further information please contact legal authorities.
There are some “cloudy” circumstances involved in this case that need to be sorted out, so we would plead, please don’t rush to judgment. Meanwhile, we are being very cautious and will continue to do so as long as there is any question about safety.
Our time in the Boise valley is nearing conclusion. I look forward to having some time with the Montana and Wyoming workers during their preparations and will be at two conventions there – Ronan before Parma and Cody after Parma. We look forward to working closely with Montana and Wyoming at least for the foreseeable future. My first 10 years in the work were in Montana and N. Wyoming, so I DO look forward to spending some time over that way again.
We read a lot about the “Comforter” the next 3 weeks in John…the Comforter/the Spirit that will guide us into all truth and will be a very loyal support to everything Jesus lived and taught. I was glad to have it explained to me when I was in Greece that the Greek word used for “Comforter” – “Parakletos” – is a word that combines a preposition meaning – “at the side of” and the verb “to call”. So, the composite word literally means, someone who is staying at your side, available to be called when needed. It is easy to “invest” a lot of time, heart, strength, etc. in other places besides prayer sometimes. It has been good to be reminded, God is constantly and anxiously waiting for us to bring every need and concern to Him knowing He has the best answers by far. He’s waiting to be called, wants to be THE answer.
your brother, Doyle
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Post by Admin on Apr 23, 2024 22:55:16 GMT -5
Alaska Overseer Dan Lawty withdraws from the ministry
April 2024
Dear co-workers, saints and servants,
Today I’ve withdrawn from my place I’ve been given in the ministry. I have a heart full of love to God and to each of you for what I’ve been given from above and from you in the ministry these years. Thank you for your love.
I also have a sorry heart because of my mistakes/offenses/sin, that have hurt you or injured you in any way. I’m sorry and apologize to each of you.
I was thinking early this morning about the grape vine. The beauty and sweet savor of the vineyard is the fruitful vine in harvest time. The purpose of every action in the vineyard is for the branch to bear more fruit. What kind of branch am I? I want to abide in the vine however/wherever the Husbandman wants me.
With appreciation in Christ, your brother, Dan
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Post by Admin on Apr 29, 2024 17:48:34 GMT -5
Letter from Johnathon Freeburn in New Brunswick, Atlantic Canada. Albert Clark was a worker in Halifax-Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada
Albert Clark removed from ministry in Canada April 27, 2024
Dear friends,
I am very sorry to have to write to you today about our brother Albert Clark. We have recently received knowledge of allegations against him of CSA that date to over 40 years ago. In light of this evidence, we have reported what we know to the authorities in the region where it occurred, and we feel it is best for Albert to stop being active in the ministry. Albert is in agreement with this decision.
Albert has expressed that he is sorry for any harm it has caused, directly and indirectly. I appreciate his humility and his acceptance, and we recognize that it is possible that he has never done anything of this nature since that time. At the same time, we have decided that because he has been engaged in that kind of activity, it is better for him not to be in the work now.
Any kind of sexual activity with a child is wrong, according to the law in our country and more importantly, according to God. There are no exceptions to this, and an adult is always responsible for their conduct toward a child. These kind of actions can’t be undone and they often leave psychological scars that last a lifetime. It’s not that it can’t be forgiven, but it seems that it is much better to address it and deal with it no matter how hard it is. We certainly feel for the victims, and want to be a support in the right way.
Especially if one of our workers has done something of this nature, we hope that everyone would feel free to tell us, and feel free report it to the local authorities. It is important for us to know because the workers are circulating in your homes regularly, and we want to do our part to ensure everyone’s safety. We want to remind you also that if you know about someone who is currently a minor and has been or is being abused, you are legally responsible to report it to law enforcement.
I don’t feel qualified to speak a lot about this subject of CSA, but we have learned through studying about it, and through talking with survivors and experienced professionals about it. We know that this is something that usually happens in secret, and it is very difficult to be open about it; for both the victim and the perpetrator. There is often a lot of shame and hurt associated with it. It often doesn’t come to light until many years afterwards. We try to be understanding and empathetic, but really we know that we won’t be able to truly enter into another person’s difficult and traumatic experience. We’re thankful that God understands and He wants to help us to find healing and comfort. We want to help too, and we are praying to know how to be an encouragement and help to those who are burdened by these heavy trials of life.
We believe and know that there is a path forward for every human being, that leads to life with God. No matter what we have done and no matter what has happened to us. That is the simple truth that we are devoting our life to share. We need help from Him to see that path; and we need humility, courage and self-denial to walk in it. We greatly appreciate those who help us to see the path forward, most of all Jesus who is the perfect example. There is no amount of confusion or deception that can hinder us from going forward in this way, as long as we stay close to him, and keep our eyes on him.
Your brother, Jonathan.
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