|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 23, 2023 3:45:44 GMT -5
In other news, Tom Hinkle went missing from Devon convention this week. He left a note saying he was at breaking point and just couldn't take it anymore. Tom is a worker from Montana /Wyoming. He has subsequently been found safe and well, and is being cared for by friends. I note this event as part of the continued fallout post-Dean Bruer. I'm sure many more workers are also at breaking point. Wow , that is terrible . Absolutely positive this is tearing the GOOD WOKERS apart
|
|
|
Post by guest8 on Jun 23, 2023 4:16:16 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own.
We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Not only workers families but think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping?
What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings, must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care.
I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, as an addition to the necessary & committed work the professionals are assigned to do at present.
Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members lives in USA and Canada who are struggling.
These are my thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 23, 2023 4:31:14 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own. We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping? What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care. I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, on top of the work the professionals are assigned to do at present. Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members in USA and Canada who are struggling to cope. These are my thoughts. Your concern about how the relatives of perpetrators are affected by the names of perps appearing on social media, etc., are understandable. However, the perpetrators are NO different from other criminals and should be treated as all other criminals are, on their own merit. As for their personal details appearing on social media, this is an unfortunate consequence of their criminal behaviour along with the effects on their relatives. It has been deemed a societal matter of public interest that convicted criminals have their cases and identities disclosed in the media for the awareness and protection of the public. Your concerns about the effects on the relatives of professing perps is no different that that of the relatives of any other convicted (or accused) person. No need to look for reasons/explanations beyond that. A professing criminal is simply another criminal.
|
|
|
Post by haggard on Jun 23, 2023 6:34:47 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own. We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Not only workers families but think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping? What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings, must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care. I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, as an addition to the necessary & committed work the professionals are assigned to do at present. Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members lives in USA and Canada who are struggling. These are my thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by haggard on Jun 23, 2023 6:54:00 GMT -5
well the risk of public shame is a big deterrent ..for any criminal...and when they find them selves in a situation where they know they can get away with it,,and thier co-workers are doing it with out consequence...they continue with thier crimes...and to think that the head workers have knowing and very deliberately covered and protected these sick..demented people it takes the crime and shame to a far higher level of mockery ...why havent the friends lynched these 3 clowns,,l know if they were any wheres close to me...they would be looking for a body guard...
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 23, 2023 12:05:06 GMT -5
Wrong thread my bad 😥
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 23, 2023 16:10:35 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own. We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Not only workers families but think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping? What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings, must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care. I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, as an addition to the necessary & committed work the professionals are assigned to do at present. Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members lives in USA and Canada who are struggling. These are my thoughts. I have thought about the families too. Unfortunately families of criminals have had to face this all the time. 2x2's aren't any different in that light. And, listening to family members on some sites I'm a part of, they want justice as much as anyone. Personally I don't want the group taken down. But I do think that the media will likely have to be an option at some point IF the ones in charge are seen to be just lying low waiting for it all to blow over. We are seeing that happening in some areas. Sometimes it takes exposure to force those in charge to make changes. If the law stepping in and charging some of those who moved workers around along with those workers that did the actual CSA then you might see changes within that are sufficient. But if that doesn't happen, the media is probably needed in the end.
|
|
|
Post by guest8 on Jun 23, 2023 18:32:05 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own. We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Not only workers families but think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping? What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings, must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care. I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, as an addition to the necessary & committed work the professionals are assigned to do at present. Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members lives in USA and Canada who are struggling. These are my thoughts. I have thought about the families too. Unfortunately families of criminals have had to face this all the time. 2x2's aren't any different in that light. And, listening to family members on some sites I'm a part of, they want justice as much as anyone. Personally I don't want the group taken down. But I do think that the media will likely have to be an option at some point IF the ones in charge are seen to be just lying low waiting for it all to blow over. We are seeing that happening in some areas. Sometimes it takes exposure to force those in charge to make changes. If the law stepping in and charging some of those who moved workers around along with those workers that did the actual CSA then you might see changes within that are sufficient. But if that doesn't happen, the media is probably needed in the end. Thanks Snow. As with lots of decisions we make in life, its about 'intent' isn't it? I'm not so sure there is evidence to prove going to the media in Australia achieved a change for the better. Personally, I support the Professionals working on trying to eliminate this evil, plus those within the church who are being proactive in present time. Yes, there undoubtedly are die -hards ( and I fully understand that can create anger) but with others, there appears pressure from within the camp.
|
|
|
Post by christiansburg on Jun 24, 2023 7:55:53 GMT -5
Yes there sure are further aspects of concern. 'No man's an island entire of itself'. It has a complexity of its own. We feel for / respectfully consider the suffering of CSA victims but I 'also' find myself thinking often of the many family members of perpetrators who...don't ask to have a family member who commits CSA; who have not had any control over that being thrown into their lives. And now having to cope with their names repetitively on social media, in letters going round the country, in their church members conversations and.. now the prospect of some wanting to take it to the media in their country. Not only workers families but think of the children that perpetrators may have, grandchildren, spouses. How are they coping? What a harrowing experience for them also. What suffering/stress they must be experiencing. Consider for example, how Dean Bruers elderly parents, his siblings, must be feeling in this point in time. I hope they too are receiving love and care. I'm wondering what does going to the media achieve? Is it a tool of revenge?, is it a tool to try and destroy a fellowship that has many good people? Or is it a practical & realistic tool to achieve zero tolerance and bring about change? ? Is it really needed, as an addition to the necessary & committed work the professionals are assigned to do at present. Or is it in effect, creating a scenario to bring further suffering/ distress into innocent family and church members lives in USA and Canada who are struggling. These are my thoughts. Critics of the way the problem of CSA has been handled are still angry and disappointed. This long term problem and full satisfaction of this problem may not be realized until the ministry is neutralized or taken out of the way. Some would like to see this happen while others hope the good ones survive. As you see it is a mixed bag.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 24, 2023 19:24:55 GMT -5
Thanks 1CW, moved posts on the media theme to the relevant thread below.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 26, 2023 23:43:11 GMT -5
Notes added to Page 1 on 26 June 2023.
|
|
|
Post by bigtrax on Jun 27, 2023 21:00:06 GMT -5
In other news, Tom Hinkle went missing from Devon convention this week. He left a note saying he was at breaking point and just couldn't take it anymore. Tom is a worker from Montana /Wyoming. He has subsequently been found safe and well, and is being cared for by friends. I note this event as part of the continued fallout post-Dean Bruer. I'm sure many more workers are also at breaking point. Wow , that is terrible . Absolutely positive this is tearing the GOOD WOKERS apart Terrible indeed. Tom is a man's man, straight shooter and like Clint Bechdolt he always seemed honest and spoke his heart.
|
|
tile
New Member
Posts: 16
|
Post by tile on Jun 28, 2023 15:51:34 GMT -5
Wow , that is terrible . Absolutely positive this is tearing the GOOD WOKERS apart Terrible indeed. Tom is a man's man, straight shooter and like Clint Bechdolt he always seemed honest and spoke his heart. Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ?
|
|
|
Post by getreal on Jun 28, 2023 16:26:10 GMT -5
Terrible indeed. Tom is a man's man, straight shooter and like Clint Bechdolt he always seemed honest and spoke his heart. Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ? Thanks for this dose of reality. My experience with ‘tough Tom’ similarly concerning. He is a troubled soul who should have left the work long ago.
|
|
|
Post by margaret on Jun 28, 2023 20:23:46 GMT -5
Terrible indeed. Tom is a man's man, straight shooter and like Clint Bechdolt he always seemed honest and spoke his heart. Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ? jesus didn’t save himself or his disciples from being around lepers either. A very contagious life threatening disease. No masks. No social distancing. Didn’t even wash his hands. How is that the honest kind teachings of Christ? Or, maybe it’s better to die from Covid today than to be a part of a system that is becoming less and less like Christ.
|
|
|
Post by getreal on Jun 28, 2023 21:22:08 GMT -5
Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ? jesus didn’t save himself or his disciples from being around lepers either. A very contagious life threatening disease. No masks. No social distancing. Didn’t even wash his hands. How is that the honest kind teachings of Christ? Or, maybe it’s better to die from Covid today than to be a part of a system that is becoming less and less like Christ. I am struggling to understand your point exactly but will just kindly point out they did not know about microbes in the time of Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by neighbour on Jun 28, 2023 22:34:54 GMT -5
jesus didn’t save himself or his disciples from being around lepers either. A very contagious life threatening disease. No masks. No social distancing. Didn’t even wash his hands. How is that the honest kind teachings of Christ? Or, maybe it’s better to die from Covid today than to be a part of a system that is becoming less and less like Christ. I am struggling to understand your point exactly but will just kindly point out they did not know about microbes in the time of Jesus. Not to mention they (Jesus and Apostles) held miraculous power over diseases.
|
|
|
Post by margaret on Jun 29, 2023 8:40:34 GMT -5
I am struggling to understand your point exactly but will just kindly point out they did not know about microbes in the time of Jesus. Not to mention they (Jesus and Apostles) held miraculous power over diseases. that power would still be on the earth today IF there were followers of Jesus as there were in those days. Workers get around thy by saying that those powers were just for a specific time period because Jesus was on earth and after he died, they had those powers just for that time period to show that the apostles were his ministry even though he had died. How anyone can believe that lie is beyond me but it seems the majority doesn’t have even a smidgeon of faith.
|
|
|
Post by margaret on Jun 29, 2023 8:41:45 GMT -5
jesus didn’t save himself or his disciples from being around lepers either. A very contagious life threatening disease. No masks. No social distancing. Didn’t even wash his hands. How is that the honest kind teachings of Christ? Or, maybe it’s better to die from Covid today than to be a part of a system that is becoming less and less like Christ. I am struggling to understand your point exactly but will just kindly point out they did not know about microbes in the time of Jesus. do you really believe that Jesus knew nothing about microbes because the education system didn’t teach it to him?
|
|
|
Post by margaret on Jun 29, 2023 8:47:52 GMT -5
Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ? Thanks for this dose of reality. My experience with ‘tough Tom’ similarly concerning. He is a troubled soul who should have left the work long ago. if you don’t mind my asking, what was your experience with Tom that concerned you? I don’t know Tom and I don’t doubt anyone that says they’ve had experiences with someone that concerned them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 9:11:50 GMT -5
jesus didn’t save himself or his disciples from being around lepers either. A very contagious life threatening disease. No masks. No social distancing. Didn’t even wash his hands. How is that the honest kind teachings of Christ? Or, maybe it’s better to die from Covid today than to be a part of a system that is becoming less and less like Christ. I am struggling to understand your point exactly but will just kindly point out they did not know about microbes in the time of Jesus. Margaret struggles to understand her points too...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 9:13:25 GMT -5
Not to mention they (Jesus and Apostles) held miraculous power over diseases. that power would still be on the earth today IF there were followers of Jesus as there were in those days. Workers get around thy by saying that those powers were just for a specific time period because Jesus was on earth and after he died, they had those powers just for that time period to show that the apostles were his ministry even though he had died. How anyone can believe that lie is beyond me but it seems the majority doesn’t have even a smidgeon of faith. Cessationism has merit...
|
|
|
Post by bigtrax on Jun 29, 2023 9:37:44 GMT -5
Tough Tom crashed? During Covid he refused to acknowledge any need for safety and protection. Had gospel meetings with no masks or distancing and a lot of people got sick. Many members of his family are quite extreme politically, maybe he was too. Wonder of they would know or understand the honest, kind teachings of Christ? Thanks for this dose of reality. My experience with ‘tough Tom’ similarly concerning. He is a troubled soul who should have left the work long ago. I hope he remains in the work as we have seen in the last few months a growing list of perverts that truly should have never been in the work in the first place. Tom is always direct and to the point wasn't ever any nonsense to him IMO. I'm especially grateful for his kindness to those folks that other workers wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Like my crotchety Dad. Extreme politically? I suppose that means anything to the right of the mental disorder of liberalism.
|
|
|
Post by margaret on Jun 29, 2023 14:30:31 GMT -5
Thanks for this dose of reality. My experience with ‘tough Tom’ similarly concerning. He is a troubled soul who should have left the work long ago. I hope he remains in the work as we have seen in the last few months a growing list of perverts that truly should have never been in the work in the first place. Tom is always direct and to the point wasn't ever any nonsense to him IMO. I'm especially grateful for his kindness to those folks that other workers wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Like my crotchety Dad. Extreme politically? I suppose that means anything to the right of the mental disorder of liberalism. he sounds like he has the heart of a shepherd if he cares for the sheep that are the most neglected. Maybe that’s why God wants him out of the “work”. It’s a dangerous place to be if you have a good heart. Difficult to even gently disagree with the chief priests and elders and Pharisees in these times.
|
|
|
Post by getreal on Jun 29, 2023 14:41:26 GMT -5
Thanks for this dose of reality. My experience with ‘tough Tom’ similarly concerning. He is a troubled soul who should have left the work long ago. I hope he remains in the work as we have seen in the last few months a growing list of perverts that truly should have never been in the work in the first place. Tom is always direct and to the point wasn't ever any nonsense to him IMO. I'm especially grateful for his kindness to those folks that other workers wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Like my crotchety Dad. Extreme politically? I suppose that means anything to the right of the mental disorder of liberalism. Calling me a liberal? 😀 Thank you! I meant troubled soul in kindness. I saw his struggle in the work. I felt it. I just wonder if he might have been happier outside of the work. We feel for him.
|
|
|
Post by bigtrax on Jun 29, 2023 16:03:11 GMT -5
I hope he remains in the work as we have seen in the last few months a growing list of perverts that truly should have never been in the work in the first place. Tom is always direct and to the point wasn't ever any nonsense to him IMO. I'm especially grateful for his kindness to those folks that other workers wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. Like my crotchety Dad. Extreme politically? I suppose that means anything to the right of the mental disorder of liberalism. Calling me a liberal? 😀 Thank you! I meant troubled soul in kindness. I saw his struggle in the work. I felt it. I just wonder if he might have been happier outside of the work. We feel for him. Oh okay... Thank you for clarification. Well I think many of the workers struggle and maybe more for the brothers (?) - I see more of them leaving versus the sisters. JMO. Tom has never been your starchy white-button down collar-polished shoes brother worker. You can spot Tom right away in any worker picture. I appreciate how genuine he is. Only Tom can answer the "happy" part, but I know he loves to preach the gospel and especially finding those that others might pass by.
|
|
|
Post by Annan on Jun 29, 2023 18:28:56 GMT -5
Not to mention they (Jesus and Apostles) held miraculous power over diseases. that power would still be on the earth today IF there were followers of Jesus as there were in those days. Workers get around thy by saying that those powers were just for a specific time period because Jesus was on earth and after he died, they had those powers just for that time period to show that the apostles were his ministry even though he had died. How anyone can believe that lie is beyond me but it seems the majority doesn’t have even a smidgeon of faith. My dad said the scriptures do not say the disciplines had the ability to pass on the power to heal to others. How he justified it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 19:00:43 GMT -5
that power would still be on the earth today IF there were followers of Jesus as there were in those days. Workers get around thy by saying that those powers were just for a specific time period because Jesus was on earth and after he died, they had those powers just for that time period to show that the apostles were his ministry even though he had died. How anyone can believe that lie is beyond me but it seems the majority doesn’t have even a smidgeon of faith. My dad said the scriptures do not say the disciplines had the ability to pass on the power to heal to others. How he justified it. *disciples
|
|