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Post by scooter123 on May 27, 2023 9:59:45 GMT -5
bottradionetwork.com/ministry/real-life-radio/2023-05-25-let-there-be-change-b/All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. This Jack Hibbs podcast is well worth the listen. Too bad the workers don’t preach like this. I think you have to copy and paste, maybe.
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Post by christiansburg on May 27, 2023 11:58:12 GMT -5
bottradionetwork.com/ministry/real-life-radio/2023-05-25-let-there-be-change-b/All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. This Jack Hibbs podcast is well worth the listen. Too bad the workers don’t preach like this. I think you have to copy and paste, maybe. A genuine and sincere message!
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jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on May 27, 2023 12:12:54 GMT -5
bottradionetwork.com/ministry/real-life-radio/2023-05-25-let-there-be-change-b/All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. This Jack Hibbs podcast is well worth the listen. Too bad the workers don’t preach like this. I think you have to copy and paste, maybe. I agree. We are seeing regret. Regret at getting caught. Regret at the way it was handled. But no repentance. How do we hold them accountable? Hundreds have sent letters, many have left, many conversations have been had....and still the only changes are a few letters of regret and an assurance of training. It's not part of the culture of this faith to stand up to the workers--so I don't think any of us really know HOW to hold them accountable. Any ideas?
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Post by Umfolozi on May 27, 2023 12:48:14 GMT -5
Take the unbiblical authority away from the workers and replace it with elders in each meeting selected by the friends, if not enough men, then use women aswell.
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Post by haggard on May 27, 2023 13:07:10 GMT -5
well its pretty sad..when the leaders preaching morality...have to take a course on child behavior ....when they insist they have the franchise to eternity... and hold victims accountable for making sure they forgive their assaulter so he can make it to heaven....if thats whos going to be in heaven... I'll pass . Why be in bondage and beholding to these kind of people who go totally against a persons better judgement..we had the best fellowship at McDonalds ...after gospel meeting,,than at meeting..the chairs werent even comfortable enough to sleep in..and we still enjoy McDonalds coffee,,and if you think theres evasion and avoidance with all this sexual crime...wait till people realize the corruption and crime when they delve into the money and bank accounts...theres some very crafty cunning characters that keep the Mercedes fuel tanks full..and the master cards toped off...when you go to work in a helicopter ...dollars make good cents
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Post by midwest on May 27, 2023 16:57:26 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the authorities in the united states are actively looking into the abuse allegations as much as it seems they are in Canada? Local authorities or nation wide such as fbi?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2023 17:32:02 GMT -5
bottradionetwork.com/ministry/real-life-radio/2023-05-25-let-there-be-change-b/All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. This Jack Hibbs podcast is well worth the listen. Too bad the workers don’t preach like this. I think you have to copy and paste, maybe. No plan will ever "stop" a pedo first off, they will always be there and always trying. Not sure why you think nothing is gonna work. What do you know that we don't?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 27, 2023 18:08:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the authorities in the united states are actively looking into the abuse allegations as much as it seems they are in Canada? Local authorities or nation wide such as fbi? I can say FBI is aware , however I don’t know the details as to what extent .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 27, 2023 18:14:20 GMT -5
Yet More To clarify that post . That situation (mother sexually abusing her child) It is just being used an example to show that when necessary the arms of law enforcement can move very quickly . It was a 48 hour turnaround . They are not able to show anything that is being investigated regarding this situation of The Truth . So that is the one that could be posted . Hope that clears up any confusion . Don’t know about everyone and how they are feeling . I for one , probably can’t even walk a straight line presently . Thanks Verna , appreciated your input . They cannot expose anyone till charges are laid and have been before a judge In addition they don’t have to tell us anything if that is what law enforcement decides to do .
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Post by chuck on May 27, 2023 18:55:18 GMT -5
All the hype about CSA training is really about workers justifying their place. They must be really scared people might work out that they actually just dont need them so the chief priest's are taking the appropriate measures to secure their existence........how many will see through it is the question......
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Post by getreal on May 27, 2023 20:33:05 GMT -5
bottradionetwork.com/ministry/real-life-radio/2023-05-25-let-there-be-change-b/All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. This Jack Hibbs podcast is well worth the listen. Too bad the workers don’t preach like this. I think you have to copy and paste, maybe. I agree. We are seeing regret. Regret at getting caught. Regret at the way it was handled. But no repentance. How do we hold them accountable? Hundreds have sent letters, many have left, many conversations have been had....and still the only changes are a few letters of regret and an assurance of training. It's not part of the culture of this faith to stand up to the workers--so I don't think any of us really know HOW to hold them accountable. Any ideas? Are you a friend? Again, first step, stop giving them money and stop giving them beds, all of them, and don’t go to conventions.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 28, 2023 8:55:02 GMT -5
All the hype about CSA training is really about workers justifying their place. They must be really sacred people might work out that they actually just dont need them so the chief priest's are taking the appropriate measures to secure their existence........how many will see through it is the question...... It’s a sickening , which is upsetting . Each new one that comes out on here are being portrayed as forgiven workers who took the course and did rehab . They are magically cured of their sins . So they get a time out . In one case he can’t attend meetings , convention, special meetings . For 6 months Yet the victims are forever scarred emotionally , mentally , spiritually , without any help , such as funds for victims . They can after that most likely will be allowed back to meetings . With a chaperone , whom doesn’t understand the process . They can go to an arranged meeting with no one under 18 . Some really don’t care about the ages of they victims , they are just predators sometimes they don’t care about a age barrier ……………. Crime of opportunity . As we don’t get the entire picture . We are not getting full exposure from overseers . I think I had posted about a legal statement ,recorded was done . It was not in my city so everything I spoke is on record . But during that call , I was delivered the following message . You have no idea how bad the paper trail is . He said it is far more of what we are told Still no transparency at all At not point should they get special treatment to them to come back to meeting . That is IMO
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 28, 2023 10:03:46 GMT -5
Looking back , a small example of change not happening lately . The worker’s words .
It is important to be open, honest, and transparent regarding the recent occurrences of negative impact that have evolved in the past while. Please ask the elders not to make copies of this letter or forward it digitally but if anyone comes to them with concerns they can discuss it verbally .
That rug is up around 3 layers off the floor . Is it running out of room ? In addition to no financial support for the victims . But money for lawyers .
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 13:51:30 GMT -5
Looking back , a small example of change not happening lately . The worker’s words . It is important to be open, honest, and transparent regarding the recent occurrences of negative impact that have evolved in the past while. Please ask the elders not to make copies of this letter or forward it digitally but if anyone comes to them with concerns they can discuss it verbally . That rug is up around 3 layers off the floor . Is it running out of room ? In addition to no financial support for the victims . But money for lawyers . Even in that letter from Daryl Dolland (sp?) he praises the friends for giving money to support some of the victims he doesn't say anything about the workers stepping up and funding therapy for the survivors of CSA. Once again they are just expecting the friends to dole out more money and they don't have to do anything.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 14:49:43 GMT -5
All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. There's got to be a change of culture away from this Popish concept... ..respect that decision because it comes from a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/shultz-AB.phpThis is the model Jesus taught... Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. 26 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. 28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.” John 13:13 You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and you are right, because that’s what I am. 14 And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. 15 I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you. 16 I tell you the truth, slaves are not greater than their master. Nor is the messenger more important than the one who sends the message. 17 Now that you know these things, God will bless you for doing them.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 28, 2023 14:52:59 GMT -5
We regret to tell you that …….. All you offending workers , elders and friends You are in a delusional state . Tear down , keep the good and move on . The homeless tramps can start knocking on doors .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 28, 2023 16:26:27 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the authorities in the united states are actively looking into the abuse allegations as much as it seems they are in Canada? Local authorities or nation wide such as fbi? I can say FBI is aware , however I don’t know the details as to what extent . I can 100% guarantee RCMP ARE ABSOLUTELY INVOLVED . I have been told FBI , however I live in Canada . So I am kinda in the dark but feel fairly certain . The police in the city I live in , are involved and investigating .
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Post by SharonArnold on May 28, 2023 16:45:19 GMT -5
All the “we regret to inform you” letters being sent out by the overseerers serve only to emphasize their ineffectiveness and empty preaching. Are we to believe that education and training in recognizing sexual grooming is going to change anything? That’s like getting the wolves together and ‘training’ them not to do their wolvish things. So far I’ve seen a lot of regret, but that’s not repentance. Repentance IS change. The wolves are at the top and they need to go. There's got to be a change of culture away from this Popish concept... ..respect that decision because it comes from a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/shultz-AB.phpThis is the model Jesus taught... Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. 26 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. 28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.” You are so right. In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 17:00:26 GMT -5
There's got to be a change of culture away from this Popish concept... ..respect that decision because it comes from a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_later/shultz-AB.phpThis is the model Jesus taught... Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. 26 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. 28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.” You are so right. In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. What happened under Stanley Sharpe's watch? I admired Stanley Sharpe so much.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 17:18:29 GMT -5
In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. This should be discussed freely and openly, and perhaps it can be in the information age like never before. Like you say, dissent gets squashed, and accountability along with it. Does anyone remember the legacy of Willie Fullerton? He was a New Zealander who spent most of his life in western Canada.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 17:24:25 GMT -5
In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. This should be discussed freely and openly, and perhaps it can be in the information age like never before. Like you say, dissent gets squashed, and accountability along with it. Does anyone remember the legacy of Willie Fullerton? He was a New Zealander who spent most of his life in western Canada. I am definitely understanding how people here feel with all these horrific things coming to light about workers they trusted. For me the workers I knew are from long ago, but I still have fond memories of what we did together. Stanley Sharpe spent a lot of time with us on our farm. It sounds like he did the right thing and if that's true, he's the man I remember. I can still see him jumping into a river during breakup to help my dad get a heifer out that had fallen into the wild waters. Many here will have similar memories of workers they spent time with that are now being exposed to be someone they never dreamed they were.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 28, 2023 17:24:29 GMT -5
You are so right. In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. What happened under Stanley Sharpe's watch? I admired Stanley Sharpe so much. In those years, he lived the scripture that fixit quoted above. And because he was so humble and unassuming, his staff mostly lived it as well. Gone was the emphasis on rules, the length of your skirt, whether you wore pants or not, what you wore when you went swimming, or if you went swimming, if you went to a movie, or whether you knew what a movie was, if you lived in a care home and had short hair for practicality, if you had to miss a meeting because unprofessing family was visiting, if you were blaming yourself because you danced with your grandson at his wedding, if you wanted to beat someone else over the head with scripture, or if you felt you needed to tell on someone else for their behavior, etc, etc. It only mattered if you showed up with honesty and sincerity. And, if you failed there, that was okay too. It really was. I have so many stories. He taught me so much of what it means to simply be a decent human being. If I was to compile a list of the top 10 or 20 personalities of all time (known and unknown), that have influenced my life for good, he would be on it.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 17:27:36 GMT -5
In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. Thanks for the reminder, Syd Lee was discussed on TMB over a decade ago... What was Syd's side of the story? The alleged victim is known to someone I know quite well and I understand the allegations are detailed and credible......particularly when one views the effects of his abuse on the victim. The victim claims that Syd Lee convinced this child by telling her that it was necessary that he "put the seed of God" into her. I would be interested in Syd's side of that. Yes, I remember Clarence Hunt very well. He was in our area and home many times. It is alleged that his victim (whom I am sure you know of fairly well) was not a minor, but still a teenager. Some folks from that era don't believe the story of the alleged victim to this day. It sounds credible to me. What do you think? Should a man involved in an alleged affair with a teenager be fully honoured within the work, banished within the work, or banished from the work? As far as the "proper investigation" of Syd Lee, I believe that the workers actually went beyond what was normally done in that era. We are talking about something over 40 years ago. We cannot judge them for what they did then by today's standards. We can only expect current workers to rise up to today's standards. The standard of the day in almost all organizations in that time was to hide the allegations completely....to tell the victim to "get over it he didn't actually hurt you" and move on. Secular authorities were not set up for investigations like they are today. Yet in this case, the victim was believed and honoured over a senior worker, the elders were gathered for a meeting on the subject, and the brother of an overseer was actually removed. This was an exercise in worker integrity that we see less of today. Given the time and culture of the day, the Lee case was handled very well. Today, we would expect more, ie we would expect them to hand the case over the the secular authorities for investigation and prosecution, and we would expect the worker to be removed until there was no doubt he/she was falsely accused. professing.proboards.com/post/489612/quote/19782?page=2
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5
What happened under Stanley Sharpe's watch? I admired Stanley Sharpe so much. In those years, he lived the scripture that fixit quoted above. And because he was so humble and unassuming, his staff mostly lived it as well. Gone was the emphasis on rules, the length of your skirt, whether you wore pants or not, what you wore when you went swimming, or if you went swimming, if you went to a movie, or whether you knew what a movie was, if you lived in a care home and had short hair for practicality, if you had to miss a meeting because unprofessing family was visiting, if you were blaming yourself because you danced with your grandson at his wedding, if you wanted to beat someone else over the head with scripture, or if you felt you needed to tell on someone else for their behavior, etc, etc. It only mattered if you showed up with honesty and sincerity. And, if you failed there, that was okay too. It really was. I have so many stories. He taught me so much of what it means to simply be a decent human being. If I was to compile a list of the top 10 or 20 personalities of all time (known and unknown), that have influenced my life for good, he would be on it. Thank you so much for that Sharon. He's definitely one of the top for me growing up around him. I can see how he would have been that kind of an overseer. He truly didn't care about those things when I knew him. I never heard anything about the workers from my parents after about 1973. They never talked about anything like that to me. Once in awhile they said so and so worker visited, but that was it.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 17:36:49 GMT -5
In my experience, there was a (brief) period of time where this was lived among the F&W in the Province of Manitoba, Canada after the Syd Lee debacle in the 1970's. It was an amazing time, with Stanley Sharpe at the helm. Stanley was a man, with no lack of confidence in God. (I see echoes of him in the communications from Darryl Doland. But I know they are probably going to do him in, as well. (Right, Dale?) It did not last in Manitoba, with the changing leaderships there and amidst the adjoining jurisdictions. I believe, to this day, that Stanley died with a broken heart. Thanks for the reminder, Syd Lee was discussed on TMB over a decade ago... What was Syd's side of the story? The alleged victim is known to someone I know quite well and I understand the allegations are detailed and credible......particularly when one views the effects of his abuse on the victim. The victim claims that Syd Lee convinced this child by telling her that it was necessary that he "put the seed of God" into her. I would be interested in Syd's side of that. Yes, I remember Clarence Hunt very well. He was in our area and home many times. It is alleged that his victim (whom I am sure you know of fairly well) was not a minor, but still a teenager. Some folks from that era don't believe the story of the alleged victim to this day. It sounds credible to me. What do you think? Should a man involved in an alleged affair with a teenager be fully honoured within the work, banished within the work, or banished from the work? As far as the "proper investigation" of Syd Lee, I believe that the workers actually went beyond what was normally done in that era. We are talking about something over 40 years ago. We cannot judge them for what they did then by today's standards. We can only expect current workers to rise up to today's standards. The standard of the day in almost all organizations in that time was to hide the allegations completely....to tell the victim to "get over it he didn't actually hurt you" and move on. Secular authorities were not set up for investigations like they are today. Yet in this case, the victim was believed and honoured over a senior worker, the elders were gathered for a meeting on the subject, and the brother of an overseer was actually removed. This was an exercise in worker integrity that we see less of today. Given the time and culture of the day, the Lee case was handled very well. Today, we would expect more, ie we would expect them to hand the case over the the secular authorities for investigation and prosecution, and we would expect the worker to be removed until there was no doubt he/she was falsely accused. professing.proboards.com/post/489612/quote/19782?page=2So from that I take it that Stanley Lee was Syd Lee's brother and Stanley Lee was part of the worker group that investigated the allegations?
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2023 17:41:57 GMT -5
Looking back , a small example of change not happening lately . The worker’s words . It is important to be open, honest, and transparent regarding the recent occurrences of negative impact that have evolved in the past while. Please ask the elders not to make copies of this letter or forward it digitally but if anyone comes to them with concerns they can discuss it verbally . This is how organisational control is maintained. Discuss controversial matters in private, deal with dissent in private, shut down any calls for accountability as quickly as possible. It's why our long term resident worker prefers private messages rather than the open board.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 28, 2023 17:45:11 GMT -5
Well said fixit !
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Post by snow on May 28, 2023 17:50:19 GMT -5
Looking back , a small example of change not happening lately . The worker’s words . It is important to be open, honest, and transparent regarding the recent occurrences of negative impact that have evolved in the past while. Please ask the elders not to make copies of this letter or forward it digitally but if anyone comes to them with concerns they can discuss it verbally . This is how organisational control is maintained. Discuss controversial matters in private, deal with dissent in private, shut down any calls for accountability as quickly as possible. It's why our long term resident worker prefers private messages rather than the open board. It can no longer be like that. Real change comes with awareness and awareness is only possible when it's all out in the open. If they want to earn people's trust again, they can't hide things and pretend it's not the friend's business. When it effects the friends, which all this does, then they need to be included in the conversation. Otherwise they are going to feel like there is still secret dealings being hidden from them.
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