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Post by Admin on Apr 17, 2023 22:02:17 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Apr 17, 2023 22:04:01 GMT -5
From the Intro to this website/resource:
The Truth Archive is a collection of documents produced by and circulated among the members of a worldwide, nondenominational group of Christians commonly referred to as “The Truth”.
Controversial or critical material is not included here.
Only very minor editorial changes (such as some spelling and grammar corrections) have been made to documents. Any editorial notes are signified with [square brackets].
All effort is taken to maintain accuracy. Please let us know if you find errors!
Keep in mind that notes are often not considered to be verbatim (word for word what the speaker said).
If you have any comments, questions, or submissions, email archive.truth@gmail.com
Let everything be done to build up the church.
I Cor 14:26
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 8:58:48 GMT -5
A great idea for a board!
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Post by Admin on Apr 19, 2023 2:09:00 GMT -5
A great idea for a board! Thanks, we hope it gets good use! |
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Post by Admin on Apr 19, 2023 7:29:33 GMT -5
Some interesting statistics. I counted 67 entries (sermons and a couple of funeral services) by Jack Carroll. None by the founding fathers, Wm Irvine or Eddie Cooney!
(Both Irvine and Cooney were eventually "put out" of the Work and seemingly excommunicated by the mainstream group, perhaps justifiably in the case of Irvine. But there seems - from what we glean looking back - little justification for the treatment and shunning of Eddie Cooney over differences around procedure and form).
It would be very interesting and informative to have access to early sermons of both Irvine and Cooney.
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Post by christiansburg on Apr 20, 2023 20:16:55 GMT -5
From the Intro to this website/resource: The Truth Archive is a collection of documents produced by and circulated among the members of a worldwide, nondenominational group of Christians commonly referred to as “The Truth”.
Controversial or critical material is not included here.
Only very minor editorial changes (such as some spelling and grammar corrections) have been made to documents. Any editorial notes are signified with [square brackets].
All effort is taken to maintain accuracy. Please let us know if you find errors!
Keep in mind that notes are often not considered to be verbatim (word for word what the speaker said).
If you have any comments, questions, or submissions, email archive.truth@gmail.com
Let everything be done to build up the church.
I Cor 14:26Have been to this site (trutharchive.net) many times and have been amazed how many sermons have been preserved. Have downloaded 200-300. Really a big help. |
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Post by Persona non grata on Jul 30, 2023 15:28:47 GMT -5
Some interesting statistics. I counted 67 entries (sermons and a couple of funeral services) by Jack Carroll. None by the founding fathers, Wm Irvine or Eddie Cooney! (Both Irvine and Cooney were eventually "put out" of the Work and seemingly excommunicated by the mainstream group, perhaps justifiably in the case of Irvine. But there seems - from what we glean looking back - little justification for the treatment and shunning of Eddie Cooney over differences around procedure and form). It would be very interesting and informative to have access to early sermons of both Irvine and Cooney. I'd also be interested in reading any semons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. |
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Post by Admin on Aug 8, 2023 18:40:07 GMT -5
Some interesting statistics. I counted 67 entries (sermons and a couple of funeral services) by Jack Carroll. None by the founding fathers, Wm Irvine or Eddie Cooney! (Both Irvine and Cooney were eventually "put out" of the Work and seemingly excommunicated by the mainstream group, perhaps justifiably in the case of Irvine. But there seems - from what we glean looking back - little justification for the treatment and shunning of Eddie Cooney over differences around procedure and form). It would be very interesting and informative to have access to early sermons of both Irvine and Cooney. I'd also be interested in reading any sermons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. , hopefully someone ( CherieKropp?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. |
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Post by Dan on Aug 9, 2023 0:00:49 GMT -5
Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it.
That's a sad and so non-Christian way to treat anyone.. "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in... Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" (Matthew 25). Cooney was a welcomed brother one minute and then treated worse than a stray cat the next minute...
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Post by maryhig on Aug 9, 2023 2:19:40 GMT -5
I'd also be interested in reading any sermons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. , hopefully someone ( CherieKropp?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. See how a child could see that it's wrong to treat someone like this, yet someone professing to know God could do it, this is exactly what I mean when I say it's your actions show if you're led by the spirit it's not what we say. We can flatter with our lips but our hearts can be so wrong, and no matter what, if I saw someone in need like that I'd help regardless of what any overseers or anyone else told me to do. And you also said the overseers were a powerful clique, how awful to be like that, to be so above others that you can get people to do such awful things as to turn a man of God, (or any man/woman) who is in need away. What kind of people are these men, they sound awful, are they still like this today and still powerful like that over the people? Jesus was nothing like that. |
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Post by fixit on Aug 9, 2023 3:59:54 GMT -5
Some interesting statistics. I counted 67 entries (sermons and a couple of funeral services) by Jack Carroll. None by the founding fathers, Wm Irvine or Eddie Cooney! (Both Irvine and Cooney were eventually "put out" of the Work and seemingly excommunicated by the mainstream group, perhaps justifiably in the case of Irvine. But there seems - from what we glean looking back - little justification for the treatment and shunning of Eddie Cooney over differences around procedure and form). It would be very interesting and informative to have access to early sermons of both Irvine and Cooney. I'd also be interested in reading any semons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. I think it was more that Eddie didn't take control of a diocese to rule like the other overseers. He believed the workers should go as led by the spirit, and he wasn't happy about the developing convention system and organisation. |
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Post by snow on Aug 9, 2023 17:37:08 GMT -5
I'd also be interested in reading any sermons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. , hopefully someone ( CherieKropp?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? |
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Post by snow on Aug 9, 2023 17:39:14 GMT -5
Persona non grata, hopefully someone ( CherieKropp?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. See how a child could see that it's wrong to treat someone like this, yet someone professing to know God could do it, this is exactly what I mean when I say it's your actions show if you're led by the spirit it's not what we say. We can flatter with our lips but our hearts can be so wrong, and no matter what, if I saw someone in need like that I'd help regardless of what any overseers or anyone else told me to do. And you also said the overseers were a powerful clique, how awful to be like that, to be so above others that you can get people to do such awful things as to turn a man of God, (or any man/woman) who is in need away. What kind of people are these men, they sound awful, are they still like this today and still powerful like that over the people? Jesus was nothing like that. I could not have turned him away. I read that and my heart hurt. I will never understand cruelty. |
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Post by fixit on Aug 9, 2023 17:56:47 GMT -5
Persona non grata, hopefully someone ( CherieKropp?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? It's tribalism, and just how organisations work. If you want an organisation "the same the world over", then the outliers have to be pushed away. As was explained to me by a worker long ago: "our usefulness is in fitting in". |
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Post by Dan on Aug 9, 2023 18:34:35 GMT -5
Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? It's tribalism, and just how organisations work. If you want an organisation "the same the world over", then the outliers have to be pushed away. As was explained to me by a worker long ago: "our usefulness is in fitting in". "When the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?" (Mark 2:16) I reckon Jesus would have had trouble fitting in with the holier-than-thou crowd too, because he didn't push those pesky outliers out of his group  . |
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Post by Admin on Aug 9, 2023 20:12:56 GMT -5
Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? Yes, Mrs B's father was part of the continuing Irvine part of the group. I can only imagine that he had been so bruised by past experiences with organized religious churches that he grasped Irvine's brand of fellowship and was maybe scared to step out of line. But I'm only guessing at the mindset back then, a very different world from our own. I found Mrs B to be a beautiful, gentle, very Christ-like elderly lady. A delight to spend time chatting with, there will likely be some of the English friends who read here who would have known her. As maryhig said, that very young girl recognized the Christian spirit, so lacking within the organized group. |
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Post by fixit on Aug 9, 2023 20:42:56 GMT -5
It's tribalism, and just how organisations work. If you want an organisation "the same the world over", then the outliers have to be pushed away. As was explained to me by a worker long ago: "our usefulness is in fitting in". "When the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?" (Mark 2:16) I reckon Jesus would have had trouble fitting in with the holier-than-thou crowd too, because he didn't push those pesky outliers out of his group . Yes, Jesus was very bad at rejecting the outliers. Which helps us to understand why he forbid his disciples from forming an organisation. Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them. 26 It will not be so among you, but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you must be your slave, 28 just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many.” |
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Post by fixit on Aug 9, 2023 20:46:00 GMT -5
Here's what lording it over means in practice...
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Post by snow on Aug 10, 2023 11:43:36 GMT -5
Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? Yes, Mrs B's father was part of the continuing Irvine part of the group. I can only imagine that he had been so bruised by past experiences with organized religious churches that he grasped Irvine's brand of fellowship and was maybe scared to step out of line. But I'm only guessing at the mindset back then, a very different world from our own. I found Mrs B to be a beautiful, gentle, very Christ-like elderly lady. A delight to spend time chatting with, there will likely be some of the English friends who read here who would have known her. As maryhig said, that very young girl recognized the Christian spirit, so lacking within the organized group. WWTWD instead of WWJD All they want is power and control. |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 10, 2023 12:01:25 GMT -5
Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? Yes, Mrs B's father was part of the continuing Irvine part of the group. I can only imagine that he had been so bruised by past experiences with organized religious churches that he grasped Irvine's brand of fellowship and was maybe scared to step out of line. But I'm only guessing at the mindset back then, a very different world from our own. I found Mrs B to be a beautiful, gentle, very Christ-like elderly lady. A delight to spend time chatting with, there will likely be some of the English friends who read here who would have known her. As maryhig said, that very young girl recognized the Christian spirit, so lacking within the organized group. I believe that when William Irvine and others first went out they did so with the right heart, I believe they tried to go back to the way of Jesus that the organised churches had changed over time. But I feel it went a bit wrong as time went on. I truly believe that Edward Cooney had the right idea, that we are to be led by the Spirit and not being made into an organisation following doctrines and ordinances made by man, Jesus is the way we follow him not the way of organised churches with man made doctrines. God will guide us in the truth, through Christ by the power of the Spirit. If our heart is right and we put him first and ourselves last. The first will be last and the last will be first. And those who become humble and turn to God with all their heart, having true faith will be the first to see him in their hearts with their eyes and ears opened, this is our inheritance now, the eternal life of the Holy Spirit in our hearts in the here and now, once we have true faith and start to obey the word of God. |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 10, 2023 12:01:58 GMT -5
Yes, Mrs B's father was part of the continuing Irvine part of the group. I can only imagine that he had been so bruised by past experiences with organized religious churches that he grasped Irvine's brand of fellowship and was maybe scared to step out of line. But I'm only guessing at the mindset back then, a very different world from our own. I found Mrs B to be a beautiful, gentle, very Christ-like elderly lady. A delight to spend time chatting with, there will likely be some of the English friends who read here who would have known her. As maryhig said, that very young girl recognized the Christian spirit, so lacking within the organized group. WWTWD instead of WWJD All they want is power and control. Hi snow, what does that mean? Thanks |
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Post by snow on Aug 10, 2023 12:22:03 GMT -5
WWTWD instead of WWJD All they want is power and control. Hi snow, what does that mean? Thanks Sorry, WWTWD What would the workers do and WWJD What would Jesus do |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 10, 2023 12:24:36 GMT -5
Right from the beginning then they were cruel and shunned those with a different pov. It continues today letting workers go with nothing unless they have family to help them. That's just wrong. She paints such a sad picture. Was her father a part of the Irvine group and they shunned Cooney? It's tribalism, and just how organisations work. If you want an organisation "the same the world over", then the outliers have to be pushed away. As was explained to me by a worker long ago: "our usefulness is in fitting in". Jesus didn't fit in though, that's why they wanted to cast him over the brow of the hill and eventually killed him. It's not fitting in with man that's important, it's living by the will of God no matter what we come up against that's important. And the will of God is that we love one another and care even for our enemies, feed those who hunger not and leave them destitute and hungry with their head in their hands out in the cold, sitting on pavement. I still can't get over that, it sickened me. I'm sorry but if I were a 2x2 and was told to turn someone away who was in need when they were desperate, just because they didn't fit in with the churches idea and rules, I'd ignore them and do what's right before God. In the Bible, the parents of the blind man in the temple didn't speak up for their son because they were afraid of being cast out of the synagogue by the Jews. But their son, the man who was blind and was made able to see by Jesus spoke up and told the truth, and once the Jesus heard that the Jews cast him out because he spoke up for him, he came and found him (John 9). We need to be like that blind man and speak up for Christ Jesus and bare witness to the truth, no matter what trouble we get in for it, and do what's right before God. And we should never leave anyone hungry or in need no matter what, we should always help when we see the need. We can be afraid of being cast out by man, or be cast out by man for Christ's sake and for the truth, and be found by Christ Jesus. |
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Post by maryhig on Aug 10, 2023 12:26:34 GMT -5
Hi snow, what does that mean? Thanks Sorry, WWTWD What would the workers do and WWJD What would Jesus do Thank you, power and control is something we shouldn't be striving for when we follow Jesus. As you say and it's right, what would Jesus do. I always think that when I don't know what to do, I go back to Jesus our cornerstone. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 13, 2023 21:46:22 GMT -5
I'd also be interested in reading any sermons of Cooney. It seems to me that his expulsion may have been politically motivated; that the other overseers, having the issues with Irvine still relatively fresh in mind, may have been afraid of losing their collective power, in the event of Cooney's popularity rising. I really don't know for sure, it's just a thought. , hopefully someone ( CherieKropp ?) can point us to some of Eddie Cooney's sermons. Like you, I'm interested. Some time ago, I had opportunity to talk with an elderly lady in Kent (I'll call her Mrs B). She remembered as a young girl, Eddie Cooney turning up on her father's doorstep after he had been "put out of fellowship" by the powerful clique of worldwide ruling overseers. He was apparently looking quite "down and out", rather destitute. Her father turned Eddie away (he was seeking a bed and roof over his head). Mrs B told us that as a very young girl, she watched out the window as poor Eddie, shunned by her father, turned and walked slowly away, sitting in the lane with his feet in the gutter and his bag of belongings beside him, as he pondered what to do and where to go next. She told us that as a very young child, she had empathy towards poor shunned Eddie and told us that now she firmly believed that his treatment back then was quite wrong. Seems Eddie too, so long ago, was a victim of abuse by a system that had begun to develop a very cruel (un-Christ like) side to it. Scroll down at this link for sermons by Cooney: tellingthetruth.info/workers_early/cooneyed.phpAlso read this book about him: Life & Ministry of Ed Cooney tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/roberts-cooney.phpStatements & Sermons by Wm Irvine at: tellingthetruth.info/founder_index/index.php |
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Post by Admin on Aug 16, 2023 7:32:08 GMT -5
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