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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 21:10:04 GMT -5
that one explains itself.... How so? If I see your back - then I have seen you. I don't need to see you ALL naked, to say; I see you. :-) The last verse explains the first verse...you can't see his face and live... |
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2021 21:26:56 GMT -5
How so? If I see your back - then I have seen you. I don't need to see you ALL naked, to say; I see you. :-) The last verse explains the first verse...you can't see his face and live...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.--------------------------------------I'll leave it at that, and let the trinity argument carry on.
My take on the subject is;
The OT Jews were polytheistic
Trinitarians today are polytheistic
Trinity arguments have been a big waste of time, for a very very long time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 21:29:43 GMT -5
You know, we need one more of these polls for a Trinity of a kind! 😆😆😆
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 21:31:29 GMT -5
The last verse explains the first verse...you can't see his face and live...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.--------------------------------------I'll leave it at that, and let the trinity argument carry on.
My take on the subject is;
The OT Jews were polytheistic
Trinitarians today are polytheistic
Trinity arguments have been a big waste of time, for a very very long time.
100%, especially on the third! It's like a bunch of orangutans debating the merits of string theory. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 21:32:42 GMT -5
How so? If I see your back - then I have seen you. I don't need to see you ALL naked, to say; I see you. :-) The last verse explains the first verse...you can't see his face and live... And yet people can see his rear and survive... just how ugly is this guy? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 21:40:04 GMT -5
The last verse explains the first verse...you can't see his face and live...
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.--------------------------------------I'll leave it at that, and let the trinity argument carry on.
My take on the subject is;
The OT Jews were polytheistic
Trinitarians today are polytheistic
Trinity arguments have been a big waste of time, for a very very long time.
That is why the last verse explains the first...you are open to follow up details in writings right? You know where you go along and read something and go hmmm...then a few short sentences later you go oh now I understand what was meant previously. Already explained verse 11 it was a expression of speech... Folks who don't understand the trinity often make the claim of polytheism, but that lacks an understanding of the trinity. I would agree that it is a waste of time to argue about it since it has no bearing on ones salvation if you understand it or not. |
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Post by verna on Nov 6, 2021 21:40:24 GMT -5
It means more than ONE. Like One El/God the Father; One EL/God Christ; One EL/God Holy Spirit..... EL= together the become Elohim/Plural. Genesis 1:26 Elohim God/Plural said, "Let us Create man in OUR image and in OUR Likeness." One Godhead with Three Persons “Let us make man in our image and in Our Likeness” (Genesis 1:26, KJV). God said, "Behold, the man has become like ONE of us ” (Genesis 3:22, RSV).
God’s plural nature is alluded to here, for He could not be talking to angels in these instances, because angels could not and did not help God create. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, not the angels, created all things (I John 1:3; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:2).
In addition to speaking of God as one, and alluding to a plurality of God’s being, the Scriptures are quite specific as to naming God in terms of three persons. There is a person whom the Bible calls the Father, and the Father is designated as God the Father (Galatians 1:1).
The Bible talks about a person named Jesus, or the Son, or the Word, also called God. “The Word was God… ” (John 1:1, KJV). Jesus was “also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God” (John 5:18, NASB).
There is a third person mentioned in the Scriptures called the Holy Spirit, and this person—different from the Father and the Son—is also called God (“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?… You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3, 4, RSV). You might want to use a word other than “person” if you want to convince people of divinity. |
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Post by nathan on Nov 6, 2021 21:42:57 GMT -5
It means more than ONE. Like One El/God the Father; One EL/God Christ; One EL/God Holy Spirit..... EL= together the become Elohim/Plural. Genesis 1:26 Elohim God/Plural said, "Let us Create man in OUR image and in OUR Likeness." One Godhead with Three Persons “Let us make man in our image and in Our Likeness” (Genesis 1:26, KJV). God said, "Behold, the man has become like ONE of us ” (Genesis 3:22, RSV).
God’s plural nature is alluded to here, for He could not be talking to angels in these instances, because angels could not and did not help God create. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, not the angels, created all things (I John 1:3; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:2).
In addition to speaking of God as one, and alluding to a plurality of God’s being, the Scriptures are quite specific as to naming God in terms of three persons. There is a person whom the Bible calls the Father, and the Father is designated as God the Father (Galatians 1:1).
The Bible talks about a person named Jesus, or the Son, or the Word, also called God. “The Word was God… ” (John 1:1, KJV). Jesus was “also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God” (John 5:18, NASB).
There is a third person mentioned in the Scriptures called the Holy Spirit, and this person—different from the Father and the Son—is also called God (“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?… You have not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3, 4, RSV). You might want to use a word other than “person” if you want to convince people of divinity.
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Post by verna on Nov 6, 2021 22:05:48 GMT -5
You might want to use a word other than “person” if you want to convince people of divinity.
You might want to look up the definition of “person”. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 22:32:23 GMT -5
They are Spirit/God each with Personality of their own. Each God/Person has a place to fill in our Salvation. God the Father the Most High God Creator of all things; Christ is the 2nd Person of the Godhead our Savior; and the Holy Spirit is our Teacher, Guide and Protector.
You might want to look up the definition of “person”. Technically God can be a person, but that doesn't mean he's a human being... |
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Post by nathan on Nov 6, 2021 22:47:12 GMT -5
You might want to look up the definition of “person”.
Yes, God is a person. But, when we say that God is a “person,” we do not mean that He is a human being. We mean that God possesses “personality” and that He is a rational Being with self-awareness. Theologians often define person as “an individual being with a mind, emotions, and a will.” God definitely has an intellect (Psalm 139:17), emotions (Psalm 78:41), and volition (1 Corinthians 1:1). So, yes, God is a person. No one doubts the personhood of man, and man is made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26–27). All through the Bible, the personal pronouns He, Him, and His are used of God. The Bible teaches that Godhead exists in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The tri-unity of God is a difficult concept to consider, but the proof is in the Bible. In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit (cp. Luke 4:14–19). Matthew 3:16–17 describes Jesus’ baptism. God the Holy Spirit descends on God the Son while the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 also speak of three distinct Persons in the Trinity. God the Father is a Person with a mind (Isaiah 55:8–9), emotions (Psalm 78:40), and a will (1 Peter 2:15). God the Son is a Person with a mind (Luke 2:52), emotions (John 11:35), and a will (Luke 22:15). God the Holy Spirit is a Person with a mind (Romans 8:27), emotions (Ephesians 4:30), and a will (Galatians 5:17). All three Persons of the Trinity possess all the attributes of God (John 6:37-40; 8:17-25; Colossians 1:13-20; Psalm 90:2; 139:7–10; Job 42:2; 26:13; 1 Corinthians 2:9–11; Hebrews 9:14). God shows His personal nature in that He expresses anger (Psalm 7:11), laughs (Psalm 2:4), has compassion (Psalm 135:14), loves (1 John 4:8), hates (Psalm 11:5), teaches (John 14:25), reproves (John 16:8), and leads (Romans 8:14). All of these actions imply the fact that God is a person. www.gotquestions.org/is-God-a-person.html |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 22:53:04 GMT -5
Technically God can be a person, but that doesn't mean he's a human being... Explain further please. Nathan beat me to it read what he posted.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 0:03:28 GMT -5
It’s ridiculous IMO Yes I know what various theists wind into it on the internet but .... No wonder some become atheists with all this tripe. Reading Mickey Mouse comics never looked so good. Well not everyone can/will be a believer... |
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Post by fixit on Nov 7, 2021 3:51:28 GMT -5
No wonder some become atheists with all this tripe. Or Muslims. |
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Post by mountain on Nov 7, 2021 5:55:02 GMT -5
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Both verses can't be true.
Exodus 33:11 KJV
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.Here is one source for an explanation. Although I do not agree with the Jesus is God line, at least the author is not imagining Christ into the appearances of God in the OT. www.learnreligions.com/what-is-theophany-4064725 |
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Post by mountain on Nov 7, 2021 6:01:55 GMT -5
You might want to look up the definition of “person”. Technically God can be a person, but that doesn't mean he's a human being... God is not a human being. He is Spirit. Jesus regularly described himself as the son of man, something that God is not! Numbers 23: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? |
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Post by mountain on Nov 7, 2021 6:16:21 GMT -5
Poll update. I intend to let the poll run for tw0-three days more before locking it. My, what an exciting poll it is turning out to be! Roselyn T and Cherie are tied neck and neck and way out front of the rest of the options.
The trinity option has received a single vote. This vote also represents a vote for a hollow Earth, Jesus lives in Venus and the Nazis landed on the Moon during WW II. Also the voter is attesting to the fact they are always right. It eludes me just who this voter may be? I hope I have not upset Verna by excluding her from this poll and she has voted in this way? I rather doubt that possibility, but who could it be? Perhaps we will never know?
Keep voting folks. It is becoming very interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 6:18:15 GMT -5
Technically God can be a person, but that doesn't mean he's a human being... God is not a human being. He is Spirit. Jesus regularly described himself as the son of man, something that God is not! Numbers 23: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?That is what I said chucklehead.... |
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Post by mountain on Nov 7, 2021 6:30:20 GMT -5
God is not a human being. He is Spirit. Jesus regularly described himself as the son of man, something that God is not! Numbers 23: 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?That is what I said chucklehead.... Perhaps, but pound to a penny we meant something different? Son of Man is a human being 'only' designation. God is not, nor any part of him can be described as Son of Man. Jesus described himself as Son of Man which in one sense means 'of mankind' or human. Therefore Jesus is not and cannot be God himself, yet God expressed himself fully through Jesus the human being son of God, son of Man. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 6:48:27 GMT -5
That is what I said chucklehead.... Perhaps, but pound to a penny we meant something different? Son of Man is a human being 'only' designation. God is not, nor any part of him can be described as Son of Man. Jesus described himself as Son of Man which in one sense means 'of mankind' or human. Therefore Jesus is not and cannot be God himself, yet God expressed himself fully through Jesus the human being son of God, son of Man. Whether or not you get the trinity doesn't matter. What matters is knowing/believing in God/Christ/and the holy spirit... |
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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2021 9:05:48 GMT -5
Perhaps, but pound to a penny we meant something different? Son of Man is a human being 'only' designation. God is not, nor any part of him can be described as Son of Man. Jesus described himself as Son of Man which in one sense means 'of mankind' or human. Therefore Jesus is not and cannot be God himself, yet God expressed himself fully through Jesus the human being son of God, son of Man. Whether or not you get the trinity doesn't matter. What matters is knowing/believing in God/Christ/and the holy spirit...
MOST of The workers and the friends today, do NOT use the word Trinity/Triune God because they had been taught INCORRECTLY by the workers in 1960s that TRINITY doctrine is RCC invention doctrine and that is FALSE so, don't BELIEVE or TEACH it. The early 2x2 workers believed/taught the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God NOT the Father but the Son. Someone wrote: Triune God, it's like laundry detergent with fabric softener, detergent and oxi in it! Get more for your money with a 3 in 1 product!
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Post by Annan on Nov 7, 2021 9:16:45 GMT -5
Whether or not you get the trinity doesn't matter. What matters is knowing/believing in God/Christ/and the holy spirit...
MOST of The workers and the friends today, do NOT use the word Trinity/Triune God because they had been taught INCORRECTLY by the workers in 1960s that TRINITY doctrine is RCC invention doctrine and that is FALSE so, don't BELIEVE or TEACH it. The early 2x2 workers believed/taught the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God NOT the Father but the Son. Someone wrote: Triune God, it's like laundry detergent with softer, detergent and oxi in it! Get more for your money with a 3 in 1 product!
Would those be the workers you said should be hung? |
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Post by xna on Nov 7, 2021 9:23:38 GMT -5
2 Timothy 1:12
The good old Christian days
" .... for I know whom I have believed ... "
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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2021 9:27:32 GMT -5
Ram, fixit and many current 2x2s will NOT understand in the concept of the Triune God but they believe and worship God the Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit in their belief. Go figure!Most of the workers and the friends today! do NOT like to use the word Trinity in the gospel or Sunday worship meetings but they PREACH and TEACH the concept of the Trinity; Jesus is the Son of God, His Divinity or Jesus came down from heaven and he creator of all things. They pray to the Holy Spirit and God the Father in their Sunday morning fellowship gathering.
MOST of The workers and the friends today, do NOT use the word Trinity/Triune God because they had been taught INCORRECTLY by the workers in 1960s that TRINITY doctrine is RCC invention doctrine and that is FALSE so, don't BELIEVE or TEACH it. The early 2x2 workers believed/taught the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus is God NOT the Father but the Son. Someone wrote: Triune God, it's like laundry detergent with softer, detergent and oxi in it! Get more for your money with a 3 in 1 product!
Would those be the workers you said should be hung?
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Post by Annan on Nov 7, 2021 9:34:49 GMT -5
Would those be the workers you said should be hung?
Spin it any way you want, Natie. You said anti trinity workers should be hung. No back peddling now. We all know it. We all read it. I saved the post. Would you like me to post it again? |
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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2021 9:40:23 GMT -5
Christ/God said He would do the hanging Matthew 18 and casting them in the lake of fire who teach and believe in false doctrines and let His people go astray from Him, I can't do it. God said Vengence is mine saith the Lord. So, I better obey God, wouldn't you say, witch.
Spin it any way you want, Natie. You said anti trinity workers should be hung. No back peddling now. We all know it. We all read it. I saved the post. Would you like me to post it again? A big deal and a lot of fuss has been made over that simple statement... I would suggest taking it as a harsh figure of speech that's not taken literally, but just a dysphemism instead of a euphemism. I'm sure Nathan was not suggesting that "Someone should get a rope!".... But figuratively expressing his disapproval of those who spew the anti-trinity doctrine.
When one denounces the divinity of Christ, and they don't believe that "I and my Father are one" or "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father", then from a spiritual perspective, they are essentially hanging themselves. If Christ were just a man separate from the Father, he'd have no power or authority to save anyone, nor could he be our intercessory for prayer. He was a divine sacrifice from the onset.. "His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life" (2 Peter 1:3). 2) NathanB: Amen, Dan... People take my posts out of context on here all the time and they repeat it over and over when I already explained to them many times in the past. Jesus often use figure of speech Jesus said in Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
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Post by Annan on Nov 7, 2021 13:13:14 GMT -5
Spin it any way you want, Natie. You said anti trinity workers should be hung. No back peddling now. We all know it. We all read it. I saved the post. Would you like me to post it again? A big deal and a lot of fuss has been made over that simple statement... I would suggest taking it as a harsh figure of speech that's not taken literally, but just a dysphemism instead of a euphemism. I'm sure Nathan was not suggesting that "Someone should get a rope!".... But figuratively expressing his disapproval of those who spew the anti-trinity doctrine.
When one denounces the divinity of Christ, and they don't believe that "I and my Father are one" or "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father", then from a spiritual perspective, they are essentially hanging themselves. If Christ were just a man separate from the Father, he'd have no power or authority to save anyone, nor could he be our intercessory for prayer. He was a divine sacrifice from the onset.. "His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life" (2 Peter 1:3). 2) NathanB: Amen, Dan... People take my posts out of context on here all the time and they repeat it over and over when I already explained to them many times in the past. Jesus often use figure of speech Jesus said in Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
ONCE AGAIN... You didn't think of this till escape hatch till Dan recently said it. For a year and nine months or so, you claimed posters here riled you up and caused you to spin out of control. No backpedaling. Tell the truth now. Your god punished you by telling Admin to give you a warning. You can spin it anyway but loose, Natie. We all know the truth. So do you. |
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Post by fixit on Nov 7, 2021 13:13:22 GMT -5
Ram, fixit and many current 2x2s will NOT understand in the concept of the Triune God but they believe and worship God the Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit in their belief. Go figure! I understand trinitarian religious theory - I just don't buy it. Christ is you is your hope of glory - not a whole lot of hatefulness and confusion and mumbo jumbo. What I consider "authentic" Christianity is a heart full of love, not a head full of theory. Authentic Christianity makes the world a better place. |
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