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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 30, 2021 15:57:11 GMT -5
To me, the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge has never been so clear cut. I may be in contravention of the principles governing this board by linking to this, even though it is presented as duelling opinions so that you can make your own mind up to the merits of each side: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Rpz7WGIwQ&t=2714sI don't know. I truly don't know, the rules change almost daily, it seems. I will happily delete it, or get kicked off this board, if that is deemed to be necessary. One thing I do know: The only defensible argument against speech you do not like is more speech. It is never (NEVER!) shutting down someone else's speech. THAT is only the refuge of the weak and the bullies (who tend to be weak). I don't have any problem with anyone having an opinion one way or another. (Knock yourself out.) What raises huge flags for me is when someone insists that their opinion/narrative is the only valid one. If you (truly) have good arguments, they will stand up to counter arguments. So present them, to the best of your ability. It is up to others to use their knowledge and filters to decide what is best for them. The importance of freedom of the individual and of speech is one (of many!) lesson(s) from 2X2ism that is written in stone for me. I despair for our civilization that we are seemingly losing this. I despair that narratives, rather than (reaching for) Truth, are being promoted.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 16:04:55 GMT -5
To me, the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge has never been so clear cut. I may be in contravention of the principles governing this board by linking to this, even though it is presented as duelling opinions so that you can make your own mind up to the merits of each side: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Rpz7WGIwQ&t=2714sI don't know. I truly don't know, the rules change almost daily, it seems. I will happily delete it, or get kicked off this board, if that is deemed to be necessary. One thing I do know: The only defensible argument against speech you do not like is more speech. It is never (NEVER!) shutting down someone else's speech. THAT is only the refuge of the weak and the bullies (who tend to be weak). I don't have any problem with anyone having an opinion one way or another. (Knock yourself out.) What raises huge flags for me is when someone insists that their opinion/narrative is the only valid one. If you (truly) have good arguments, they will stand up to counter arguments. So present them, to the best of your ability. It is up to others to use their knowledge and filters to decide what is best for them. The importance of freedom of the individual and of speech is one (of many!) lesson(s) from 2X2ism that is written in stone for me. I despair for our civilization that we are seemingly losing this. I despair that narratives, rather than (reaching for) Truth, are being promoted. amen sharon...
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Post by Grant on Apr 30, 2021 16:09:36 GMT -5
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 30, 2021 16:12:46 GMT -5
Dimmi, I still remember during the 1950ties my mom dragging me into my school on a Saturday to get a Polio vaccination and an unembodied voice barely at the level of hearing issuing from the broom closest as I passed by saying "don't do it kid, it will blank your mind from noticing the military-industrial machinations to come." Really? I remember as a 4 or 5 year old, as I received my polio vaccine as a sugar cube in a paper cup, feeling that I had received a very precious gift. And that I was very lucky. There were no voices from broom closets for me. Or, as a 16/17 yo, feeling soooo lucky to be getting my smallpox vaccine (that I had somehow missed as a child) for a class trip to Europe. I no longer had school nurses calling me out of class, and scrutinizing my arms for my deficiencies/shortcomings. Or, in 2003, when I had pneumonia, and somehow got myself to a walk-in clinic, and got an antibiotic, that seemed more precious than gold to me when I was finally holding it my hands. (I knew, somehow, that if I laid down on my floor to sleep - which is all I wanted to do at that point - I might not have been able to get myself to the help that I needed.) But. Every case and every time deserves your full on attention and powers of discrimination.
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Post by snow on Apr 30, 2021 16:38:02 GMT -5
Your fate is in your hands, -if you feel better believing it that is your right.
But please do not put it out in the mainstream dialogue where it can be the cause of sometimes being the death of others.
I had hoped that the ProBoards which states that it prohibits posting COVID misinformation would be able to stop you but apparently it can't.
I think most people are smart enough to make a decision on their own, commentary on a message board won't sway a person one way or the other. My hesitation isn't because I don't know covid19 is deadly, especially for the elderly, but because I simply don't trust the information the government has put out, nor am I convinced the vaccines are safe.
As mentioned, I saw my sister get sick as a dog after getting each of her shots, and that just doesn't appeal to me. After watching Biden's State of the Union Address, I'm very suspicious as to the effectiveness of the vaccine too. They all sat 20 feet apart and wore mask even though they had all been vaccinated with a +95% efficacy vaccine? What's the point of vaccinating everyone if social distancing and mask are still necessary? jmo
I'm beginning to think that a lot of people can be swayed by inaccurate information put out on message boards and places like FB. That's why it's important for us to be responsible and try not to post inaccurate information. The reason that vaccinated people still need to continue to mask is because so many people have gotten covid and gave it a chance to mutate that we have many different variants that no one knows for sure the vaccines handle effectively. We now have mutations merging to be what they call 'double mutants' in India that is causing a very real crisis there. Just this last week we have had cases in Canada of this double mutant strain. The fact that your sister got sick is actually a very good thing. It means that the body recognized covid and fired up her immune system to form antibodies to fight it. That way when she is faced with the real thing her body will know to kill it before it kills her. The discomfort is worth is worth it. I had a bit of that about three days after I got my first dose, but nothing serious. I am only 80% protected with one dose so it makes sense that I still wear a mask and socially distance, but I am now able to be around vaccinated family again and I get to cuddle my new grandson. That is priceless imo.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 30, 2021 22:09:16 GMT -5
To me, the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge has never been so clear cut. I may be in contravention of the principles governing this board by linking to this, even though it is presented as duelling opinions so that you can make your own mind up to the merits of each side: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Rpz7WGIwQ&t=2714sI don't know. I truly don't know, the rules change almost daily, it seems. I will happily delete it, or get kicked off this board, if that is deemed to be necessary. One thing I do know: The only defensible argument against speech you do not like is more speech. It is never (NEVER!) shutting down someone else's speech. THAT is only the refuge of the weak and the bullies (who tend to be weak). I don't have any problem with anyone having an opinion one way or another. (Knock yourself out.) What raises huge flags for me is when someone insists that their opinion/narrative is the only valid one. If you (truly) have good arguments, they will stand up to counter arguments. So present them, to the best of your ability. It is up to others to use their knowledge and filters to decide what is best for them. The importance of freedom of the individual and of speech is one (of many!) lesson(s) from 2X2ism that is written in stone for me. I despair for our civilization that we are seemingly losing this. I despair that narratives, rather than (reaching for) Truth, are being promoted. Sharon, I do understand your concern for the "importance of freedom of the individual and of speech." I have been a long time member of the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) and Freedom of Speech is one of the biggest concerns that we have.
Also, from the standpoint of the history of the 2x2's, I also understand your concern from that! Even though I had known from a young child the 2x2's did NOT go all the way back to the days of Jesus; -never-the-less because it had been the biggest part of my life, it was very painful leaving it.
However, this about is NOT about "religions" OR "politics;" -it is about a Covid -19, a health issue and it should be viewed as such in that non-biases way.
Yet, -it has NOT been treated that way here on TMB!
People are playing with it as if it were Roulette! But our own lives & the lives of others are in danger when people give out information that is inaccurate or completely false.
Did you notice that Joseph Michael Mercola in the link you presented was nor even a medical physician?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_MercolaJoseph Michael Mercola is an American alternative medicine proponent, osteopathic physician, and Internet business person.
He dietary supplements and medical devices, some of which are controversial. Until 2013, Mercola operated the "Dr. Mercola Natural Health Center" (formerly the "Optimal Wellness Center") in Schaumburg, Illinois. He wrote the books The No-Grain Diet (with Alison Rose Levy) and T he Great Bird Flu Hoax. On his website, Mercola and colleagues advocate a number of unproven alternative health notions including homeopathy and opposition to vaccination. These positions have faced persistent criticism. Mercola is a member of the political advocacy group Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, which promotes scientifically discredited views about medicine and disease, and several other alternative medicine organizations. Mercola's medical claims have been criticized by the medical, scientific, regulatory, and business communities.
A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial stated his marketing practices relied on "slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics." In 2005, 2006, and 2011, th e U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned Mercola and his company that they were making illegal claims for their products' ability to detect, prevent, and treat disease.[8] The medical watchdog site Quackwatch has criticized Mercola for making "unsubstantiated claims [that] clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations and many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements."Of Mercola's marketing techniques, oncology surgeon David Gorski says it "mixes the boring, sensible health advice with pseudoscientific advice in such a way that itās hard for someone without a medical background to figure out which is which."[10]
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 30, 2021 22:17:10 GMT -5
Dimmi, I still remember during the 1950ties my mom dragging me into my school on a Saturday to get a Polio vaccination and an unembodied voice barely at the level of hearing issuing from the broom closest as I passed by saying "don't do it kid, it will blank your mind from noticing the military-industrial machinations to come." Geeze, that must have been scary for you!
We were amongst the first of the massive vaccinations for Polio,- the whole community went to our local high school.
Whole families adults & children alike were vaccinated.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 1, 2021 2:00:58 GMT -5
Dimmi, I still remember during the 1950ties my mom dragging me into my school on a Saturday to get a Polio vaccination and an unembodied voice barely at the level of hearing issuing from the broom closest as I passed by saying "don't do it kid, it will blank your mind from noticing the military-industrial machinations to come." Geeze, that must have been scary for you!
We were amongst the first of the massive vaccinations for Polio,- the whole community went to our local high school.
Whole families adults & children alike were vaccinated.I remember going with all my family when I was seven years old to get our polio shots. I remember I was quite nervous because it was my first encounter with a needle. It was quite a surprise that I felt nothing when they gave it to me.
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Post by Gene on May 1, 2021 7:14:55 GMT -5
I don't remember the polio vax -- the only one I remember is the measles vax sometime in the later 1960s. And of course a flu jab every year. I need to go in for my adrenochrome jab soon.
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Post by snow on May 1, 2021 13:24:13 GMT -5
Geeze, that must have been scary for you!
We were amongst the first of the massive vaccinations for Polio,- the whole community went to our local high school.
Whole families adults & children alike were vaccinated. I remember going with all my family when I was seven years old to get our polio shots. I remember I was quite nervous because it was my first encounter with a needle. It was quite a surprise that I felt nothing when they gave it to me. I only remember a sugar cube that they gave us for polio, no shot. Anyone else had that instead?
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 15:20:43 GMT -5
Most of what's posted is more opinion than misinformation. Even the experts disagree about mask, vaccines, etc. Who was it that said that the virus was "not driven by asymptomatic carriers" and that "people should not be walking around with masks" (Dr. Fauci March 2020). There seems to be more confusion about this virus than reliable information, so speculation abounds. The lies of the previous administration did a lot of damage but mostly it's confusing because people are willingly ignorant. If you wanted the truth you would study what has worked. Here's one example: How Taiwan beat COVID-19 ā new study reveals clues to its success
Unfortunately there's a few very vocal people pushing misinformation: The women fighting South Africa's 'infodemic'
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 15:27:15 GMT -5
5. Hospitals receive monetary benefits based on the number of Covid 19 deaths they report. Doctors and hospitals are being forced to attribute virtually every death to COVID-19. The CDC has instructed physicians to exaggerate COVID-19 deaths on death certificates. Dr. Bukacek states that Covid-19 death certificates have been manipulated. bit.ly/3lnCn3J Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death CountāThereās an implication here that hospitals are over-reporting their COVID patients because they have an economic advantage of doing so, [which] is really an outrageous claim,ā Gerald Kominski, senior fellow at the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research, told us. And, he said, any suggestion that patients may be put on ventilators out of financial gain, not medical need, āis basically saying physicians are violating their Hippocratic Oath ā¦ it would be like providing heart surgery on someone who doesnāt need it.ā
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 15:42:25 GMT -5
Perhaps they should volunteer at hospitals š„ in their areas That's what I've been thinking for a while.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2021 15:44:31 GMT -5
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 15:46:24 GMT -5
Fixit .Yep I do as well . For 10 days I watched in the ICU . Watched families suffer as well . Take coffee and donuts . Something is better than nothing
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 15:51:24 GMT -5
To keep those whom will not vaccinate safe . I donāt recall the president saying all there had been vaccinated ! To keep us safer if you have a variant that you are not aware of and had no vaccine . Sure as #*<!* would have preferred my child be sicker than a dog from a vaccination š Not so lucky she is dead !!!!! Which option is better Dan ? Nurses working up to 36 hour shifts trying to save lives . Doctors and nurses DYING . As I said go volunteer at your local hospital . No mask š· required for you I guess ! Volunteer they need help , take coffee and donuts š© Have at it . Man up ! The worst words EVER in my life from anyone (doctor) . His exact words I WILL NOT PUT YOUR DAUGHTER BACK ON A VENTILATOR . Because they are having to pick and choose which patient is more viable ! I knew my daughter would die ! I TOOK HER HOME TO DIE ! Her request granted . Just with us and the 6 cats . Still sick š¤ in my stomach . I am still in denial and I had to make a decision about my mom as well , failure to thrive . 2 weeks before she passed the doctor called late Sunday night and I had to make a choice right then . May you never have to do so ! I would never wish That On Anyone * . Then get back to me regarding your mental health ! THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE , HOW SAD š¢ I canāt imagine how they feel as a doctor . To tell you , that they cannot save a 39 year old or anyone ! Man my heart goes out to them š¢ Thank you so much for posting this. Too many people speculate without having any real-world experience with Covid.
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 16:02:05 GMT -5
Why in the hell does anyone of us, -as an individual, -think that we can possibly know more about it than the health experts who deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis and is their job!
Because not all of the health experts agree. I've read several articles by many respected Immunologist, and they make good counter arguments against the vaccines. Can't post their comments on here though, because the speech police (ProBoards) are censoring all unapproved information. I don't recall you posting any credible information from immunologists before this thread.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2021 16:16:19 GMT -5
Most of what's posted is more opinion than misinformation. Even the experts disagree about mask, vaccines, etc. Who was it that said that the virus was "not driven by asymptomatic carriers" and that "people should not be walking around with masks" (Dr. Fauci March 2020). There seems to be more confusion about this virus than reliable information, so speculation abounds. NO! -the experts DO NOT "disagree about mask, vaccines, etc."
Your comment has been attributed to Dr. Fauci before with a false interpretation of why he said it! I remember precisely what Dr. Fauci said and why he said it!
I know when he first said to not to start wearing masks & his reason for saying it!
Masks were in short supply and they were desperately needed by the medical people dealing with patients with Covid-19!
That bit seems to escape the memory of some of you people!
It made a particular impact on me because I had already been wearing a mask for quite awhile but after he said that I hoped people seeing me would not think that I was robbing a health worker of a mask!
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2021 16:20:49 GMT -5
To me, the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge has never been so clear cut. I may be in contravention of the principles governing this board by linking to this, even though it is presented as duelling opinions so that you can make your own mind up to the merits of each side: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Rpz7WGIwQ&t=2714sI don't know. I truly don't know, the rules change almost daily, it seems. I will happily delete it, or get kicked off this board, if that is deemed to be necessary. One thing I do know: The only defensible argument against speech you do not like is more speech. It is never (NEVER!) shutting down someone else's speech. THAT is only the refuge of the weak and the bullies (who tend to be weak). I don't have any problem with anyone having an opinion one way or another. (Knock yourself out.) What raises huge flags for me is when someone insists that their opinion/narrative is the only valid one. If you (truly) have good arguments, they will stand up to counter arguments. So present them, to the best of your ability. It is up to others to use their knowledge and filters to decide what is best for them. The importance of freedom of the individual and of speech is one (of many!) lesson(s) from 2X2ism that is written in stone for me. I despair for our civilization that we are seemingly losing this. I despair that narratives, rather than (reaching for) Truth, are being promoted. Mercola.com has no credibility - Mercola is an internet marketer who has made a lot of money from misinformed people. FDA warns Mercola: Stop selling fake COVID remedies and curesCovid-19 is a public health and safety issue. Here in New Zealand we have a lot of health and safety laws to comply with e.g. work on single story buildings requires scaffolding. The data shows that people get hurt, so scaffolding is mandated to mitigate that risk. There's no personal choice in the matter.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 16:20:59 GMT -5
Just on more minute with my 39 year old daughter . I still had so much to tell her ! My Careš» , Caroline . Each day I reach for my phone to talk to her and my mom if I see something I want to tell them . Then reality steps in . I have not erased their phone numberās . Not ready yet 39 years old dead from COVID-19
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 16:26:06 GMT -5
Just on more minute with my 39 year old daughter . I still had so much to tell her ! My Careš» , Caroline . Each day I reach for my phone to talk to her and my mom if I see something I want to tell them . Then reality steps in . I have not erased their phone numberās . Not ready yet 39 years old dead from COVID-19
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Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2021 16:27:20 GMT -5
I remember going with all my family when I was seven years old to get our polio shots. I remember I was quite nervous because it was my first encounter with a needle. It was quite a surprise that I felt nothing when they gave it to me. I only remember a sugar cube that they gave us for polio, no shot. Anyone else had that instead? The sugar cube was what we got as well!
Great idea, -it helped the children take it more easily!
But can you image that happening today? The QNon people would be all over it as a conspiracy to do something terrible to us!
That "anti-science" attitude that so many people have today is something that worries me considerably.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 16:37:35 GMT -5
Most of what's posted is more opinion than misinformation. Even the experts disagree about mask, vaccines, etc. Who was it that said that the virus was "not driven by asymptomatic carriers" and that "people should not be walking around with masks" (Dr. Fauci March 2020). There seems to be more confusion about this virus than reliable information, so speculation abounds. NO!Ā Ā Ā -the expertsĀ DO NOTĀ "disagree about mask, vaccines,Ā etc."
Your commentĀ has been attributedĀ to Dr. FauciĀ before with a false interpretation of why he said it! I remember precisely what Dr. Fauci said and why he said it!
I know whenĀ he first said to not to start wearing masks &Ā his reason for saying it!
Masks were in short supply and they were desperately neededĀ by the medical people dealing with patients with Covid-19!
That bit seems to escape the memory of some of you people!
It made a particular impact on me because I had already been wearing a mask for quite awhile but after he saidĀ that I hoped people seeing me would not think that I was robbing a health workerĀ of a mask!
WOW DMMICHGOOD powerful words ! I sure as heck donāt want to tangle with you !
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Post by dmmichgood on May 1, 2021 16:52:22 GMT -5
NO! -the experts DO NOT "disagree about mask, vaccines, etc."
Your comment has been attributed to Dr. Fauci before with a false interpretation of why he said it! I remember precisely what Dr. Fauci said and why he said it!
I know when he first said to not to start wearing masks & his reason for saying it!
Masks were in short supply and they were desperately needed by the medical people dealing with patients with Covid-19!
That bit seems to escape the memory of some of you people!
It made a particular impact on me because I had already been wearing a mask for quite awhile but after he said that I hoped people seeing me would not think that I was robbing a health worker of a mask!
WOW DMMICHGOOD powerful words ! I sure as heck donāt want to tangle with you ! , You are one tough cookie yourself, chinesewhispers! I admire you immensely! -and I have learned a lot from you.
All of this false information about Covid-19 just makes me furious!
My mother, -her mother and her two sisters were all in the 1918-1919 pandemic. The baby sister died.
I still remember her telling how they took out a window in order to take the baby's body out of the house so as to not take her dead body past their sick mother.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 17:01:03 GMT -5
Cannot imagine that . So many of your family to pass from that . After Covid-19 arrived I watched a few documentaries on the 1918 fight against the FLU Every time I wish I was out and about I would so love people see COVID-19 picture after my daughter passed . So they can see COVID-19 and how it looks like when they complain about a weeeee tiny š· donāt out of respect for her . Itās unbelievable . 1918 they painted X on doors of those whom had it right ?
Our father taught us to look at every angle . Study to answer questions . Self awareness and be cognizant !
Each to their own
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 1, 2021 17:04:10 GMT -5
Joking here , maybe we should mark doors of those not vaccinated Again joking . Got better things to do
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Post by BobWilliston on May 1, 2021 17:43:29 GMT -5
Most of what's posted is more opinion than misinformation. Even the experts disagree about mask, vaccines, etc. Who was it that said that the virus was "not driven by asymptomatic carriers" and that "people should not be walking around with masks" (Dr. Fauci March 2020). There seems to be more confusion about this virus than reliable information, so speculation abounds. NO! -the experts DO NOT "disagree about mask, vaccines, etc."
Your comment has been attributed to Dr. Fauci before with a false interpretation of why he said it! I remember precisely what Dr. Fauci said and why he said it!
I know when he first said to not to start wearing masks & his reason for saying it!
Masks were in short supply and they were desperately needed by the medical people dealing with patients with Covid-19!
That bit seems to escape the memory of some of you people!
It made a particular impact on me because I had already been wearing a mask for quite awhile but after he said that I hoped people seeing me would not think that I was robbing a health worker of a mask!
I have come to realize that there is one source that is more reliablethat the scientific experts -- it's the unidentified QAnon voice through the GOP filter to the virtuous Christian nationalist.
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Post by Annan on May 1, 2021 18:34:58 GMT -5
I only remember a sugar cube that they gave us for polio, no shot. Anyone else had that instead? I remember a sugar cube too. I also remember the TB tine test.
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