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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 18, 2021 17:01:23 GMT -5
like i said pure speculation or AKA false information at this point. let a real doctor, coroner or medical examiner make the call insteadlet a real doctor, coroner or medical examiner make the call instead of what you people are doing here...if it turns out he "was scared to death" i'll admit it until then its a bunk theory right now... Wally you are one has been using " pure speculation!"
You have been who will not "let it up to a real doctor, coroner or medical examiner make the call."
Wally, You are the one who said ; "3 of the rioters died from medical issues NO ONE attacked them. officer sicknick was attacked but did NOT DIE as a result of that he died of a stroke."
Wally, you are the one who insists that these people were not killed be the rioters that day.
You might want wait until the trial of some of them before you cast them as innocent.
But knowing you, you won't accept that either.Wally will be happy with all the GOP legislators who voted against the recognition of the valor of the Capitol policemen who defended them during the event of Jan. 6. He would also agree with the stupid representative from Texas who said he wasn't voting for the bill because it was "dishonest" because it read that it was an "armed" attack on the Capitol. Wally won't need his gun if an unarmed man runs at him with a butcher knife.
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Post by speak on Mar 18, 2021 17:52:04 GMT -5
No body should have died. tell that to the police officer who shot the trump supporter...the other 4 that died from medical issues could have died anywhere at anytime that includes officer sicknick...good try though I say again nobody should have died because of others . good try though or no good try though.
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Post by intelchips on Mar 18, 2021 18:59:47 GMT -5
Try again Part one.
Sometimes “would you like to try again” doesn't really mean “would you” like to try again.
A very good example of this came about during my inquiry pending a Court-Martial. During the inquiry the following dialogue took place: "Captain Lombard, Lt. Tillman has just reminded me that you reported taking a prisoner, briefly, while you say you were aboard the Exxon Valdez." "Yes. Briefly."
"And you . . . it seems the man was injured, and you had considered taking him back to the helicopter, but changed your mind? After speaking with him briefly, and carrying him several feet, you changed your mind about taking him aboard the 'helicopter?"
Where was he going with this one, I wondered. Did he think he was going to impeach me by implying that I couldn't take the prisoner to the 'helicopter because he was made up? Never existed? If they ever called Alvin to the stand, he would clear that up, right away. Even if they court-martialed me, I would then have the right to call Alvin to the stand myself. I had nothing to fear from this line of questioning. I didn't even need to explain it. I could just answer his questions and see where he took it, because this one couldn't hurt me, even if I had to go to Court-Martial before I could prove it. "Commander, that is correct. I had intended to take the man on board the 'helicopter, but circumstances changed, and I was obliged to leave him behind. It was regrettable, but necessary."
"I see. What was his name and rank, Captain?" "Name and rank? His insignia was the same as mine, a Marine captain. And his name tag said, 'Halverson.'" "Ah, thank you. Captain Halverson, Marines . . . now, let me see . . . ." Stafford walked back to his table and picked up his laptop unit, tapping the keys. "Halverson . . . Halverson . . ." He looked up at me. "Captain Lombard, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you." I waited, refusing to look flustered by asking what it was. Eventually, Stafford went on. "The list of personnel on board the Exxon Valdez does not list a Captain Halverson. In fact, there isn't a Halverson of any rank in the Exxon Valdez personnel files. Would you care to try again?” Stafford was pretty good. This was damning, coming on the heels of his inconclusive arguments that my testimony was unreliable because it was fabricated. And after fuel, perhaps the next highest priority for a ship captain was keeping track of the personnel aboard his vessel. It was the first prerequisite for provisioning the ship with food and water. No ship commander would have an outdated personnel table. It was my turn to be speechless. And I was. Stafford, though, knew a good thing when he saw it. Rather than push further right then, perhaps because he was out of things to push, or perhaps to leave the Board with this impression overnight, before moving on, he turned to the admiral. "Perhaps this is a good time to recess, sir?" The admiral wasted no time checking with his colleagues. "Adjourned until oh-seven-hundred, tomorrow." Crack! He banged his gavel.
I roused myself, finally, getting up and moving to pick up my laptop unit. Out of the corner of my eye, I spotted Tillman glancing my way. She started over, moving in my direction, but I turned my back to her, and headed for the door, figuring my escort would see me and pick me up before I got that far. I was right, and two of them formed up on me halfway there, the other two waiting ahead, right next to the exit. I kept a brisk pace, meaning to get out of here, and get to my quarters, where I could put a couple more dents in my brain trying to think all of this through, but when I got to the doors, they were closed, and I had to stop while the officers escorting me got into position before letting me through. The sudden stop caught someone walking behind me, just as briskly as I was, and I felt a bump suddenly, when I pulled up.
I heard a bundle of papers hit the floor. "Oh, excuse me!" I knew the voice. Tillman wasn't going to let me ignore her. When I turned around, she was standing there looking all flustered and helpless, the way pretty girls do when they have dropped something and expect a gentleman to pick it up for them.
I was tempted, just for a moment, to put some shoe-prints all over her paperwork, stepping on them while I graciously moved to her side and said something like, "Oh, are you alright?" instead of bending down to retrieve her dropped paperwork. Marines learn passive-aggressive tactics as fast as they do combat tactics, I suppose. But I resisted the urge, and simply crouched, in silence, to pick up her things. I didn't know what game she was playing, or why she thought I would be interested in talking to her now, but the Marine Corps had declared me an officer and a gentleman, and so far they hadn't rescinded that. I would play the role for at least a few more days.
I was picking up paper, and then Tillman was crouched with me, gathering up paper, when suddenly, I saw her furtively push one of them towards me, instead of picking it up. It was from the tablet she had used to write her note to Stafford. I couldn't help looking at it. It had Halverson's name on it. Specifically, it had "Captain Harold Halverson, MC, #708-998-1535B/N," written in block letters. I picked it up and handed it to her, with the rest of the stuff. And then I turned to leave, without saying a word. No way was I going to give her an "Excuse me," or anything else, when she obviously had bumped into me on purpose. And then I stopped. On purpose? Why would she do that? I turned back to her. "I hope that little accident didn't inconvenience you too much." Lt. Tillman looked up into my eyes, and said, "No, not at all. It was my fault, anyway. I should watch where I am going." And she glanced around her, quickly. But she didn't move away. So, I glanced around too, and saw nobody near us except my escort, the four Navy officers. And then I got it. Navy officers. Linda had something to say, but not in front of Navy. So I loitered a moment, and then brought up the only thing I could think of that this might be about.
"That thing about Halverson. I have to admit, I didn't see that coming." She didn't glance to the side, or look away, the way we do when we are trying to remember a name, or a face. And she didn't glance down or blink, which suggests an attempt to change the subject. "Who's that?" she said, looking right at me, directly into my eyes, the way we do when we are saying something we are certain of, not like she was asking a question at all. I blinked, and then I was looking at her back, watching her walk away.
Part two soon
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 19:02:24 GMT -5
It is privately funded by pupils parents or family etc. Here in NZ they would be called private schools. Im not sure about either of your cases but I do know Private schools receive government funding so they they are not private are they. Capatalism is the private/individual ownership of the means of production. So a private school receiving government funding is not Capatalism it's Socialism. It's not private.....
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 19:09:20 GMT -5
No its not the central state but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini sate within the heirachy of the sate. "At the core of ancient thinking we have found the assumption of natural inequality. Whether in the domestic sphere, in public life or when contemplating the cosmos, Greeks and Romans did not see anything like a level playing field. Rather, they instinctively saw a hierarchy or pyramid":Siedentop Inventing the individual. The Private owned means of production is at the bottom of the pyramid, and when a company goes public it crosses into the heirachy of the state/public sector. "pūblicus (feminine pūblica, neuter pūblicum); first/second-declension adjective of or belonging to the people, state, or community quotations ▼public, general" It simply means that the public (citizens of the country) can buy shares in the company if they wish to. Yes, so it's no longer private/individual ownership/control of the means of production is it. Its socialism.
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 19:19:33 GMT -5
No its not the central state but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini sate within the heirachy of the sate. "At the core of ancient thinking we have found the assumption of natural inequality. Whether in the domestic sphere, in public life or when contemplating the cosmos, Greeks and Romans did not see anything like a level playing field. Rather, they instinctively saw a hierarchy or pyramid":Siedentop Inventing the individual. The Private owned means of production is at the bottom of the pyramid, and when a company goes public it crosses into the heirachy of the state/public sector. "pūblicus (feminine pūblica, neuter pūblicum); first/second-declension adjective of or belonging to the people, state, or community quotations ▼public, general" Maybe I should suggest some prerequisites to that economics course. You still haven't explained this Bob... "Explain how they(Boeing/Microsoft) are not public/state and private then Bob?" Also is it really a free market? "free 1. able to act or be done as one wishes; not under the control of another"
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 18, 2021 19:22:46 GMT -5
It is privately funded by pupils parents or family etc. Here in NZ they would be called private schools. Im not sure about either of your cases but I do know Private schools receive government funding so they they are not private are they. Capatalism is the private/individual ownership of the means of production. So a private school receiving government funding is not Capatalism it's Socialism. It's not private..... I know of private companies, with only one shareholder who have received government grants for projects. Does that make them a public company. I re kon you have an axe to grind which has coloured your brains ability to think logically. You may reach the stage where you are admitted to a hospital funded by government. In which case you will have become a socialist.
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 20:02:25 GMT -5
No its not the central state but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini sate within the heirachy of the sate. "At the core of ancient thinking we have found the assumption of natural inequality. Whether in the domestic sphere, in public life or when contemplating the cosmos, Greeks and Romans did not see anything like a level playing field. Rather, they instinctively saw a hierarchy or pyramid":Siedentop Inventing the individual. The Private owned means of production is at the bottom of the pyramid, and when a company goes public it crosses into the heirachy of the state/public sector. "pūblicus (feminine pūblica, neuter pūblicum); first/second-declension adjective of or belonging to the people, state, or community quotations ▼public, general" What??
Chuck! You are saying; "but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini state within the heirachy of the state"?.
You are making my brain ache! No its not the central state but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini sate within the heirachy of the sate. "At the core of ancient thinking we have found the assumption of natural inequality. Whether in the domestic sphere, in public life or when contemplating the cosmos, Greeks and Romans did not see anything like a level playing field. Rather, they instinctively saw a hierarchy or pyramid":Siedentop Inventing the individual. The Private owned means of production is at the bottom of the pyramid, and when a company goes public it crosses into the heirachy of the state/public sector. "pūblicus (feminine pūblica, neuter pūblicum); first/second-declension adjective of or belonging to the people, state, or community quotations ▼public, general" What??
Chuck! You are saying; "but is in the heirachy of the state. So its like a mini state within the heirachy of the state"?.
You are making my brain ache! Im saying anything that doesn't fit this definition... private/individual ownership/control of the means of production.... is in the public/state heirachy. Think of a pyramid. State at the top, Private at the bottom. "At the core of ancient thinking we have found the assumption of natural inequality. Whether in the domestic sphere, in public life or when contemplating the cosmos, Greeks and Romans did not see anything like a level playing field. Rather, they instinctively saw a hierarchy or pyramid" When you cross from private/individual ownership of the means of production to public/state ownership of the means of production you have crossed from private to public or capatalism to socialism. The higher up the pyramid you go the closer to the central state you get, or higher up the heirachy of the state or public sector. A business that goes public no longer falls under the capatalism definition. Capatalism is small independant private individual. dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/privateprivate adjective private adjective (PERSONAL) B1 only for one person or group and not for everyone: private enterprise noun business or industry that is managed by independent companies or private individuals rather than being controlled by the state. "a boom in private enterprise" Definitions from Oxford Languages dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/capitalismcapitalism noun [ U ] C2 an economic, political, and social system in which property, business, and industry are privately owned, directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people The confusion is words like state, people just assume sate as government, which is true, but it also indicates a structure. group, collectivism, socialism. "it is the aim of Socialism to transfer the means of production from private ownership to the ownership of organized society, to the State" Ludwig von Mises
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 20:11:51 GMT -5
Im not sure about either of your cases but I do know Private schools receive government funding so they they are not private are they. Capatalism is the private/individual ownership of the means of production. So a private school receiving government funding is not Capatalism it's Socialism. It's not private..... I know of private companies, with only one shareholder who have received government grants for projects. Does that make them a public company. I re kon you have an axe to grind which has coloured your brains ability to think logically. You may reach the stage where you are admitted to a hospital funded by government. In which case you will have become a socialist. My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... "The term 'Communism' signifies just the same as 'Socialism'. The use of these two words has repeatedly changed during the past decades, but always the question which separated socialists from communists was only political tactics. Both aim to socialize the means of production." Ludwig von Mises
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 20:23:37 GMT -5
Wally you are one has been using " pure speculation!"
You have been who will not "let it up to a real doctor, coroner or medical examiner make the call."
Wally, You are the one who said ; "3 of the rioters died from medical issues NO ONE attacked them. officer sicknick was attacked but did NOT DIE as a result of that he died of a stroke."
Wally, you are the one who insists that these people were not killed be the rioters that day.
You might want wait until the trial of some of them before you cast them as innocent.
But knowing you, you won't accept that either. Wally will be happy with all the GOP legislators who voted against the recognition of the valor of the Capitol policemen who defended them during the event of Jan. 6. He would also agree with the stupid representative from Texas who said he wasn't voting for the bill because it was "dishonest" because it read that it was an "armed" attack on the Capitol. Wally won't need his gun if an unarmed man runs at him with a butcher knife. well that has gotta be one of your best stupid comments i have ever seen. i've always defended police or military in general unless they do something i see as wacky woohoo to your anti-police dismay generally. this time around i have not commented either way on the Jan 6th riot for or against the police actions that day. other than to say the police let them in or through to the capital. i haven't seen the details of the bill to comment on it. good try though...
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Post by Dan on Mar 18, 2021 20:29:08 GMT -5
I know of private companies, with only one shareholder who have received government grants for projects. Does that make them a public company. I re kon you have an axe to grind which has coloured your brains ability to think logically. You may reach the stage where you are admitted to a hospital funded by government. In which case you will have become a socialist. My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... "The term 'Communism' signifies just the same as 'Socialism'. The use of these two words has repeatedly changed during the past decades, but always the question which separated socialists from communists was only political tactics. Both aim to socialize the means of production." Ludwig von Mises
True, historically socialism has never made a nation better.
An example of socialism vs capitalism;
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 20:30:22 GMT -5
tell that to the police officer who shot the trump supporter...the other 4 that died from medical issues could have died anywhere at anytime that includes officer sicknick...good try though I say again nobody should have died because of others . good try though or no good try though. i did not hear much of a peep out of you during the 2020 riots when 30 people died and 100's were injured including police officers(LE)...good try though
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 20:32:52 GMT -5
My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... "The term 'Communism' signifies just the same as 'Socialism'. The use of these two words has repeatedly changed during the past decades, but always the question which separated socialists from communists was only political tactics. Both aim to socialize the means of production." Ludwig von Mises
True, historically socialism has never made a nation better.
An example of socialism vs capitalism; thanks again Dan for the awesome memes...direct and to the point my man...
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Post by intelchips on Mar 18, 2021 20:35:28 GMT -5
Would you like to try again part two.
As we approached my quarters, none of us had said a word, myself or my four Navy colleagues. But for the first time, I had something I wanted to say to them, a request I wanted to make. I stopped just short of my open door.
"Who's senior, here?"
They knew what I meant, and one of them spoke up, saying, "I'm in charge of the detail. What can I do for you?"
"Please tell Commander Stafford I want a legal consultation, and I won't go forward with the inquiry until I get one." It was within my rights, only because Stafford was calling me as a witness. "I can take care of it tonight, if he'll tell the communications people to let me make some calls." My ability to make out-bound calls had been disabled since I had been confined to quarters. Inbound calls were restricted to people calling from an approved list. "I'll need to call my C/O, and ask for a referral, and then I will want to call whatever lawyer he suggests to me."
"I'm sure Stafford will provide you with a lawyer from the Legal Affairs Division, and you won't have to pay for the services," he suggested, helpfully. "Thanks, but that's like asking a head-hunter to give you a haircut. He'll probably give you one, but maybe not the way you were hoping."
The Navy officer barked a laugh. "I'll tell him. Anything else?"
"Yeah. Tell him I have friends in the com group, and he can listen long enough to find out who I am talking to, but if he tries to eavesdrop past that, I'll find out about it, and file a complaint. Remind him this station has been my regular duty station for a while." The guy, warming up a little after my head-hunter joke, bristled at that last remark, trying to decide if my suggestion that Stafford might want to eavesdrop was disparaging to Naval officers in general, or just prosecutors. He must have decided it was an insult to prosecutors, though, because he didn't start a fight over it.
"Anything else?"
"Nope. Thanks for your courtesy. You guys have been pretty decent to me." I went into my room, and for the first time, closed the door behind me.
An hour and a half later, I got a chime on my phone, and a message that said outgoing calls would be accepted, but I would have to get each number cleared before it would be approved. No problem. I called Colonel Parsons first.
"Colonel, I need a favor. I need to consult a lawyer before the inquiry starts again tomorrow. Can you refer me to someone?"
"Yes, happy to. But you know, Navy has the best lawyers for military law they get first pick of the recruits, most of the time, and send some of the best to law school. You might do better going through their offices."
I knew he was right, if I wanted actual legal services. "Well, I'm sort of in a hurry, I wanted someone I could get on the phone tonight. And, I was sort of hoping for someone who was, you know, familiar with how Marines do things." There was a slight pause, while Colonel Parsons read between the lines.
"I have one name. A retired Marine who practices civil law, now. I suppose he would remember quite a bit about military procedure, and might do the trick." Colonel Parsons was tracking me, and I started to feel a little surge of energy. We were up to something, but no one listening would pick up on that, or guess what this was about if they did. The colonel gave me a phone number for a lawyer living in a nearby town, and I thanked him and disconnected. When I told him I wanted someone who knew how Marines do things, I was telling him I wanted a Marine, or a retired Marine, which amounted to the same thing. When he told me he knew a retired Marine that "might do the trick," he was saying this was a reliable man who would do a Marine a favor, if he could. Neither of us was unaware that while any conversation I had with my lawyer was privileged, any conversation I had with my commanding officer was presumed to be military business, and fair game for tapping.
I placed my next call, asking the operator to clear the number and prepare for an out-bound call. That took a while to set up, requiring time to generate the connection, and coordinate it with the prosecution.
"Mr. Hoffman, I am Captain Vincent Lombard, MC. Colonel Rick Parsons gave me your number." "Ah, Colonel Parsons. Good man. He's well, I trust?"
"Very well, sir. He sends his regards. I'm calling because I'm facing a Board of Inquiry. It's already started, but they've pulled a fast one on me, and I need a little help."
"Hmm. Well, an Inquiry is just the first step. They can't do anything to you there, just refer you for court-martial, where you will get a military lawyer, if you want one. I recommend you accept the lawyer they appoint." "Sir, I don't need a military lawyer. Not yet, anyway. What I need is . . . First, is there anyway to be sure our conversation isn't being monitored? I'm calling through the PBX system, on base." "Son, you should hope they ARE listening. Because everything that happens in the PBX com center is logged, and if they violate your privileged communication with a lawyer, not even the military can bring charges after that. The {BX com center is probably the safest way in the world for us to talk. Safer than if I was sitting in a room with you on base."
"Okay. So, let me give you a little background, and tell you what I'm thinking . . ." We talked for a few more minutes, and then I disconnected and set the phone down. I needed to get some sleep, if I could. I didn't know how much time I would have, later.
* * * My com started chiming at oh-four-hundred. It was Mr. Hoffman. "Captain, your man Duggard just got back to me."
"He didn't use your number, did he?"
"No, I borrowed a cell from a neighbor, as we discussed. Anyway, Duggard says the files were buried pretty deep, and he couldn't get a lot of information, but I'm forwarding the report he sent me to you now. He also said another search was recently done on the name you gave me, and he said to tell you he figured you might want that tweaked a little. And then he said something odd."
"What's that?"
"He said, 'Tell him I'm not just a technician.'"
"Got it. Mr. Hoffman, will the file be as confidential as our voice call?"
"Oh, even more so. Because I'm encrypting it."
"What code do I use to decrypt?"
"Duggard gave me the code. He said use the name of his favorite vacation spot."
"Gotcha." It would be some variation of "casino," I knew immediately. The line about "I'm not just a technician" was a reminder of that conversation. "Thanks, Mr. Hoffman. I owe you one."
"Oh, not at all. I'm charging you my office rates for all this. You'll get a bill.
"Absolutely, Mr. Hoffman. Can I call you again if I need to?"
"Of course. From what Duggard said, this case is probably all politics. If I can be of help, you call. Any time."
* * * The file, when it came, was very interesting indeed. I tried a few variations until I hit the decryption code, which turned out to be "Casino Station," and after I opened it, I stayed up quite a while, reading it, re-reading it, and making a strategy to deal with it. At first, I was suspicious, thinking this could be just another trap, carefully laid out for my big feet to step into, because it seemed Stafford had already looked into this. But at the end, Duggard had also put in a personal note, a line that read, "Hoffman told me who tipped you to this, and when I looked, that was who had previously queried these same results. So, I took some initiative and changed the query tag-line, as appended on the report. I figured you needed to know that. Then I covered my tracks, so no one will know anybody else checked the file. I’m pretty sure the data is solid, and the trail is clean. After all, I'm not just a technician. I'm a Marine technician."
He sure was. From his note, I knew that Lt. Tillman had been the one who checked this file previously. I looked at the report again, where it listed who had queried this information recently. After Duggard's fiddling, there was only one entry: Commander Wayne
Stafford. I smiled, suddenly sure that I had what I needed. This wasn't a trap. It was an investigator, doing her job, and letting someone know what she had found. This time, she was letting me know. It probably didn't matter that Stafford's name sat at the bottom of this query. All that mattered was, it wouldn't come back to bite Tillman, if someone checked on it. If Stafford himself checked on it, he would know someone had done this for me, and it was someone with skills. But he would never know that Linda Tillman ever had the information, and therefore, that she could have tipped me to look into it.
Continued in part three
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Post by intelchips on Mar 18, 2021 21:16:34 GMT -5
Part three final
In the morning, I was a little slow getting ready when my escort showed up. I was in no hurry, wanting the room to be waiting for me when I arrived, if at all possible, so even when we finally left I made excuses for a small detour to pick up a charger for my cell, and then to get a lint-roller for my uniform. I had even gone so far as to sprinkle a few whiskers from my morning shave on my shirt collar, to make it believable, but after that, there was no slowing my escort down. I was their responsibility, and any more than a couple minutes late would have reflected badly on them. I didn't mind, a couple minutes would be enough, and these guys were being decent to me. One of them even helped me, handling the roller on my collar, in the back, so I could present well when we arrived.
Stepping into the room, I could see that I had timed it right. The bailiff had already seated everyone, and the admiral was glancing at the time on his com as I stepped in and walked down the aisle towards the front of the room.
"Captain Lombard has arrived," the admiral said with a slight frown, a little chapped that I would be anything other than ten minutes early for my own Inquiry. "Commander Stafford, how would you like to begin . . ." The admiral broke off as I walked right past the defense table and up to the witness chair.
I murmured a low "Excuse me, I apologize for my tardiness," to the Board officers, and sat down.
The admiral looked little taken aback. "Captain Lombard, what are you doing?"
"Sir, we recessed after the commander there asked me a question. I have yet to respond."
Stafford, no slouch, could see I was up to something, and would have no part of it. He rose from the table where he was sitting next to Lt. Tillman, and stepped out in front of it to speak. Linda Tillman gave me a neutral look of curiosity, with maybe just the smallest hint of a smile trying to tug at the corners of her mouth, while her boss waved his hands and started talking. "No sir. I had the answer to the question I asked. I was done with this witness, and I'm ready to move on." The admiral was looking back and forth between the two of us.
I spoke up again, then. "Sir, procedure is that I may only answer questions posed to me by the prosecutor, but that I may answer any question asked, at least, so long as I stick to the question itself. That is my right, as the officer under investigation." Stafford spoke hurriedly,
"But, you answered the question! You said the man you took prisoner was named Halverson, and I finished by pointing out that there was no one named Halverson on the roster! Admiral, this is some kind of effort to disrupt this Inquiry, and I suggest that you-"
The admiral held up his hand, and even Commander Stafford knew it was time to shut up. As soon as it was silent, the admiral turned to the court reporter, and said, "Please read us the last line you recorded before we adjourned." The reporter glanced at her screen, and said, "Commander Stafford to the witness: Would you like to try again?" The admiral raised his eyebrows a smidgeon. "It seems Captain Lombard is correct. I take it, Captain, that you would indeed like to try again?" he asked me, but before I answered, he turned to Commander Stafford once more, saying, "I presume the question means, 'would you like to try and identify your prisoner again,' is that correct, Mr. Stafford?" The admiral was going out of his way to let Stafford limit the scope of the question, not knowing what I had in mind.
"I wasn't asking him to try again. It was- it's a saying. It means, you got that one wrong, would you like to . . ." Even Stafford could see he had lost that argument, and he trailed off.
"Thank you sir," I said to the admiral. "I would be happy to try to identify the person in question more precisely, and I thank counsel for pointing out to me that I gave insufficient information in my first answer." I nodded to Stafford, and took a breath, preparing to lie to the Board. What I would say was the truth, couched in misleading information as to where I got some of the data. It was the only way to be sure Tillman wouldn't fall under suspicion.
"I had several moments to talk with this man before he fell unconscious again. During that time he was able to tell me his name and serial number, which he gave as Captain Harold Halverson, GMC, #708-998-1535. I presumed at the time that he was following protocol for a prisoner of war. I did not ask him his role or position on the ship, but I have the idea he was not a regular crew, because when he first awoke, he asked where he was. When I answered 'On the ship,' he asked me, 'What ship is this?' Of course, he had just been wounded, and was somewhat . . . confused, I suppose. But most men posted to a ship would know the name of that ship as well as they know their mother's name. So I would guess he was a passenger being transported, before the ship was lost to- to whatever happened." Yeah, it was an embellishment on the truth, but it was the only way to get the information out, and I figured there was no way for anyone to show different. One of the Board captains turned and nodded to two of the others, apparently agreeing with my assessment that a passenger might be confused as to what ship he was on, but a man posted to that ship would almost certainly not. In fact, it was common for retired sailors and Marines, when they got old enough for senile dementia to set in, to be confused and think they were still on one of the ships they had spent time on. They forgot the names of their wives and girlfriends before they forgot the names of their ships.
Stafford stood mute. I had stopped him in his tracks, it seemed, and he wasn't sure what to do now. Linda Tillman was at the table, behind him, looking down at her pad. The admiral actually gave me a little smile and a nod. It seemed he liked evidence to come out, and didn't care which side it fell on so much as he cared that we were getting closer to resolving the issues. So, I took a chance.
"If someone has a laptop with connection to Marne personnel records, and the court would care to learn more, perhaps we could access the military database, instead of the ship's roster, and look for any information on this Captain Halverson. I, for one, would like to know what he was doing on the Exxon Valdez."
I looked to the admiral, who nodded again, and turned around, looking for someone behind him. It was a habitual gesture; he was looking for his aid, who would usually be standing right there, but who was not, while the admiral functioned as Judge Advocate. It took him only another moment to spot the young ensign, sitting in the spectator seats. "Charles, look this man up, send the file to all our cells."
Ensign Charles jumped to his feet, to facilitate pulling a com unit out of his pocket, and started typing away. I spelled the name, and then rolled the memorized serial number off, slowly, while the Board officers chatted quietly among themselves. A few minutes later, chimes rang on cells at once, sitting at the table, and a second later, another one, as Commander Stafford's unit received the file, as well. Mine did not. I didn't mind. I had already seen a much more detailed report than the one these men were looking at. Duggard had spent a couple of hours digging away in the system to compile that one. I just sat quietly while the other men read, and I waited for the decision I was sure was coming.
"Ah . . . well, then." It was the admiral, as he finished perusing the information. "Commander Stafford, I think we are best served if there are no more questions regarding this Captain Halverson. I think we can stipulate that Captain Lombard has provided us with a satisfactory answer to that question. We, ah . . . we will be forwarding some observations and questions to Fleet Command, and then . . . well, let's get on with it. Commander, what's next?"
"Sir, I don't . . . well, I had some more, er, evidence regarding . . ." Stafford was flummoxed. He had come in with no intention of addressing the Halvorson issue further, but he was confused now, by what he had read, and it was shaking him up. He had left last night thinking he had me cold. It was the second time he had made that mistake. He wasn't going to want to go on until he could piece together what had happened here. "Perhaps a short recess, so I can, um, realign my material to reflect this information?"
The admiral wasted no time. Crack! Went the gavel, and we had an hour to kill before we had to resume.
So, as one can see asking if “would you like to try again” can create some strange and unexpected results.
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Post by fixit on Mar 18, 2021 21:25:19 GMT -5
It simply means that the public (citizens of the country) can buy shares in the company if they wish to. Yes, so it's no longer private/individual ownership/control of the means of production is it. Its socialism. Nope. It's investors owning the means of production. Nothing to do with socialism.
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Post by fixit on Mar 18, 2021 21:33:18 GMT -5
My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... Please give us a name for a democratic system of government where taxpayers money is used to fund unemployment benefits and healthcare for less fortunate citizens.
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Post by fixit on Mar 18, 2021 22:28:19 GMT -5
Do you mean shushy that if your predictions come though is that we will all be just a bunch serfs working without any payment to have a taxes taken out of? Trump and his "QAnon" will live in luxury while we labor to supply their every whim?
We already pay way too much for Trump to live -n the luxury. totally in correct. you will just have to wait you are so decieved its not funny The suspense is too much Shushy! When is the next insurrection?
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 22:31:49 GMT -5
Yes, so it's no longer private/individual ownership/control of the means of production is it. Its socialism. Nope. It's investors owning the means of production. Nothing to do with socialism. That's impossible if it's public owned. If you buy shares in a business that has gone public you have no control over the means of production, therefore you do not own the means of production. The means of production are no longer under the individuals or private control. When you buy shares in a company this is what happens..... "collectivism noun the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it" "socialism noun a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" It is by definition socialism. And cannot be captalism by definition.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 18, 2021 22:31:56 GMT -5
I know of private companies, with only one shareholder who have received government grants for projects. Does that make them a public company. I re kon you have an axe to grind which has coloured your brains ability to think logically. You may reach the stage where you are admitted to a hospital funded by government. In which case you will have become a socialist. My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... "The term 'Communism' signifies just the same as 'Socialism'. The use of these two words has repeatedly changed during the past decades, but always the question which separated socialists from communists was only political tactics. Both aim to socialize the means of production." Ludwig von Mises Go stand in front of a mirror.
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 22:50:13 GMT -5
My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... Please give us a name for a democratic system of government where taxpayers money is used to fund unemployment benefits and healthcare for less fortunate citizens. socialism noun a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole In capatalism it's called compassion. What did you think Christ was getting at here when he said "you give them something to eat". Remember Christ inveted the Idea of the individual. If we as individuals need the government to enact our individual compassion it has taken the virtue out of a act once known as Grace and shows how hollow our individual compassion really is if we need it done for us. Im sorry but socialism is hiding behind compassion which by nature it can never be. This is why reading and understanding history is important, it clears the muddied water around socialism.
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 23:01:12 GMT -5
My axe to grind is people redefining terms, which means we are going to repeat history and lots of people are going to die it we dont wake up. The socialism idea has a massive pile of bodies in what I would of thought was recent history but somehow it seems a long distant past are we are having another go at it thinking we can perfect it. Pure stupidity...... "The term 'Communism' signifies just the same as 'Socialism'. The use of these two words has repeatedly changed during the past decades, but always the question which separated socialists from communists was only political tactics. Both aim to socialize the means of production." Ludwig von Mises Go stand in front of a mirror. Great reply.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 18, 2021 23:02:04 GMT -5
Go stand in front of a mirror. Great reply. Thanks.
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 23:03:57 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 18, 2021 23:14:52 GMT -5
Maybe I should suggest some prerequisites to that economics course. You still haven't explained this Bob... "Explain how they(Boeing/Microsoft) are not public/state and private then Bob?" Also is it really a free market? "free 1. able to act or be done as one wishes; not under the control of another" You'll need to take a placement test before I attempt anything more.
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Post by fixit on Mar 18, 2021 23:18:48 GMT -5
Nope. It's investors owning the means of production. Nothing to do with socialism. That's impossible if it's public owned. If you buy shares in a business that has gone public you have no control over the means of production, therefore you do not own the means of production. The means of production are no longer under the individuals or private control. When you buy shares in a company this is what happens..... "collectivism noun the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it" "socialism noun a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" It is by definition socialism. And cannot be captalism by definition. Public companies are not publicly owned. Shareholder owned.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 18, 2021 23:27:57 GMT -5
. other than to say the police let them in or through to the capital. i haven't seen the details of the bill to comment on it. The policemen who let the attackers into the Capitol are YOUR kind of cops. The one dead one and the 140 other maimed and injured policemen were on MY side. They were the ones being honored ... whatever for, since the whole thing was a jovial visit by non-armed law abiding patriots to the Capitol. And you need to know what the bill says?
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Post by chuck on Mar 18, 2021 23:32:32 GMT -5
That's impossible if it's public owned. If you buy shares in a business that has gone public you have no control over the means of production, therefore you do not own the means of production. The means of production are no longer under the individuals or private control. When you buy shares in a company this is what happens..... "collectivism noun the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it" "socialism noun a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" It is by definition socialism. And cannot be captalism by definition. Public companies are not publicly owned. Shareholder owned. private company noun BRITISH a company whose shares may not be offered to the public for sale and which operates under legal requirements less strict than those for a public company. Definitions from Oxford Languages
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