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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 21, 2021 22:29:40 GMT -5
Hi Nate, you wrote this interesting info earlier:
Can you tell me the year the Workers first went to Guam and who they were? Was it Leo Stancliff and Larry T-------last name??
I'm looking for a written account of when the workers first went to Guam. Have you ever seen one??
Thanks in advance!
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Post by nathan on Jan 22, 2021 0:47:16 GMT -5
Hi Nate, you wrote this interesting info earlier: Can you tell me the year the Workers first went to Guam and who they were? Was it Leo Stancliff and Larry T-------last name?? I'm looking for a written account of when the workers first went to Guam. Have you ever seen one?? Thanks in advance! The guy to help you is Alan Van. send him a PM. He knows the history of 2x2 on Guam and many of the workers, and friends, Alan labored on the islands, he is a better choice than me. He was a worker on Guam after I left there in 1980.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 22, 2021 10:12:24 GMT -5
DUH! Now why didn't I think of that! Thanks
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 30, 2021 7:48:49 GMT -5
Hi Nate, you wrote this interesting info earlier: Can you tell me the year the Workers first went to Guam and who they were? Was it Leo Stancliff and Larry T-------last name?? I'm looking for a written account of when the workers first went to Guam. Have you ever seen one?? Thanks in advance! The guy to help you is Alan Van. send him a PM. He knows the history of 2x2 on Guam and many of the workers, and friends, Alan labored on the islands, he is better than me. He was a worker on Guam after I left there in 1980.This is what I wrote to Cherie in response to her inquiry a few days ago: Leo Stancliff and Harry Henninger were the first workers on Guam, in 1966. This was arranged after Henry E. "bad-mouthed" Leo to the Philippines government, leading to Leo's expulsion from the country. This also led the other workers to ask Henry to leave the P.I., telling him they could no longer trust him. Leo spoke Tagalog and Ilocano, which he was able to use on Guam. Leo told me that Henry did apologize to him years later. I don't know exactly who was the first to profess here, but I believe there were some Filipino contract laborers who "listened," and the first family to profess was that of Tony and Violet Reyes. Tony is still living, in Florida, though Violet was killed in an auto accident about 10 years ago. They did not come directly from the Catholic church (the common route for most Filipinos here), but they had been involved in something else - I think Baptist, though I'm not entirely sure. Tony and Violet had left the meetings and gone to something else before she died. Their two daughters, Debbie Grund (Az) and (Bill and) Jocelyn Benson (upstate NY) are still professing. Guam's native people are the Chamarros - there have been 3 or 4 that I know of who have professed, but none to go in the work. They, like the Filipinos, are heavily Catholic. Christina Lazaro, a Filipina who professed here in Leo's famous "mission under the tree on the college campus," went in the work for a few years in California, but is no longer professing. My wife, Jayne, is also from that mission on the college campus. That was around 1980, when Larry Taylor was with Leo, and after Leo had gone to Pohnpei for a few years. Leo "pioneered" the work on Pohnpei too, I believe initially going there around 1970. That was at the request of Earl Shippey, an American man whose mother professed, who was living and working on Pohnpei. He wanted the workers to come to Pohnpei because his wife, Kiniya, was studying with the JWs and he didn't like that. Several professed on Pohnpei through the years, but the 2 who stayed with it were Klades, who later married and moved to the Marshalls (she passed away here on Guam last summer), and (Nimrod) Michael Half. Michael still lives on Pohnpei, and comes here most years for the Guam convention. (We have visited the Guam convention most years). Michael is from Kapingamarangi, a Polynesian "outlier" atoll within the state of Pohnpei and therefore in the Federated States of Micronesia. Also, Klades' daughter, Julielyn (about 34 years old now) is professing here on Guam. I message (and pay) her when I get stumped on how to translate certain words in Marshallese. I was actually out there on Melang Islet (Likiep Atoll) the day Julielyn was born, and used to wash the dishes with her when she was a child! The first workers in the Marshall Islands were Kathy McLin and Julia Brist, who visited Likiep Atoll for a week in 1984, I believe. John Mastin and Chuck Morris also spent a week there en route to Pohnpei, Guam and Asian conventions in 1984. Then, in April of '85, Harry Henninger and I spent three weeks on Likiep, and then Larry Taylor and I began visiting every year or so, staying from a week to a couple of months at a time. Other workers, mostly those from Guam, stopped through on occasion for shorter visits. Eldon Huff and I spent the greater part of 1991-92 on Majuro Atoll, with occasional visits to Likiep. Others, including Eldon Huff, John VandenBerg, Chuck Habner, Julia Brist, Debbie Jacobson and I spent time on both Majuro and Likiep after that. Though we had some we visited with for awhile, Klades and her daughter are the only ones who stayed with the meetings from that time until now. And Saipan - Angie Long and a companion (Opal Collins? Kathy Mclin?) spent some time there in the late 70s or early 80s, but I don't know much about that. I don't think anyone professed at that time. Larry Taylor and I had been planning to spend time in the Marshalls, but were asked to go to Saipan in the summer of 1990. Bob Ingram was awaiting word on whether or not he could continue in the work at that time, and he was staying on Saipan with Dr. Frank Samuels, one of the Honolulu friends, who had a one-year contract on Saipan while awaiting his license to practice in Hawai'i. Pikoy Servida, a professing man from the Philippines who was a contract laborer on Saipan, had a "nephew" - Rey - who had been asking Bob a lot of questions, so they asked for workers to come and have meetings. We arrived on a Saturday in April, and 3 young Filipinas and a young Korean woman (all garment factory workers) attended the Sunday morning meeting in Frank's apartment the next day. I think Rey was also in that meeting. We began a barracks gospel meeting that evening, with a roomful of Filipino construction laborers, Filipina garment factory workers and the one Korean woman. It continued more or less the same for the next four months. In '91, it was arranged for Linda Brist and Jerilynn Davidson or Debbie Jacobson to work there (I can't remember which of those two younger sisters was first. I think they both had time on both Saipan with Linda Brist and on Guam with Julia Brist). - Bob had already returned to Alaska by then - with Linda and her companions continuing there for a few years. Quite a few came to those meetings through time, with a few professing, including a couple of men who stayed on Saipan for a number of years, and a young Chinese woman who went in the work in China and is still a worker, as far as I know. She is known as Cindy to foreigners. I hope this helps a bit - It's a bit jumbled because all of these islands' stories are quite interwoven. I'll be glad to fill in/ clarify more details if anyone asks and I happen to have an answer! Alan
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 30, 2021 8:26:09 GMT -5
Regarding that "mission under the tree": Larry said he would go out around the campus to invite students to the studies, while Leo would remain seated there under the tree (I think on the ground, with some sort of a back rest), speaking to the students. Leo would tell of backing up and starting over with his study if he would see a certain student walking up.
Jayne (my wife) tells me that her friend suggested they go to the studies because she had a crush on Jim L. (who later professed and is still professing, in southern California). Jayne was like, "Nah. They'll just change your religion." (Jayne was a nominal Catholic, and her friend likely was Catholic too). They went anyway, with the friend not going for very long, but Jayne eventually professed in Angie Long and Kathy McLin's meetings in a home. Jayne said one thing that impressed her and others was that Leo would speak in "our language" (Tagalog).
This was around 1980 (Jayne graduated from high school in '78, then from college in '82 or '83). I first came to Guam in September of '83. I had been on O'ahu and Kaua'i in the Hawaiian Islands the previous year, and Eldon T. (my overseer) asked me to come out here to replace Jay Jensen, who was returning to Colorado. Harry Henninger was my older co-worker.
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Post by nathan on Jan 30, 2021 10:16:46 GMT -5
Thanks, so much Alan for posting the history of 2x2s and workers on Guam. I will post the information of how I came in contacted with Leo Stancliff and Larry Taylor on that awesome and unique God sent mission Bible Studies on University of Guam campus lawn in 1978-80. And how God moved my heart to become a 2x2 worker/preacher in Washington State and Oregon from 1984-1993.
I will post Uncle Harry Henninger's funeral note, where he mentioned his thoughts about I wonder who will respond to the gospel of Christ, before landing on the island of Guam in 1966. I met uncle Harry H. and stayed with him and his co-worker in Hawaii 1980 a few days before I head to the States and my brother and I lived in Seattle, Washington. In 1979 I offered for the ministry to Uncle Leo Stancliff on the island of Guam but when I moved to Seattle I had to offer for the ministry again, to Tharold S. in July, 1980.
My brother also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1983. Rose gin&, a Chamorro also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1984. Christina Lazaro went in the work for 7 years in California from 1984-1990. Mark L. has a son who is in the work in California for many years now. These are some of the College students that professed in the University Bible Studies on the Campus of Guam in 1980s.
Two years ago, I had dinner with Jim L. and his wife, Kathy Mc. the worker whom he professed in Guam. It was good to chat with them about the good old days on the island of Guam.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 30, 2021 15:24:12 GMT -5
My brother also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1983. Rose gin&, a Chamorro also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1984. Christina Lazaro went in the work for 7 years in California from 1984-1990. Mark L. has a son who is in the work in California for many years now. These are some of the College students that professed in the University Bible Studies on the Campus of Guam in 1980s. Yes, I had forgotten about Mark's son, Eldon, being in the work. He began in Colorado several years ago, but I haven't kept up on where he has been assigned in recent years. Mark is Chamorro-Filipino, and his wife, Noemi, is Filipina (from Cavite; her mother and several sisters professed), so I guess there is a one-quarter Chamorro in the work! Also, Christina's brother, Del, has a son who went into the work in California a few years ago. I haven't kept up on his whereabouts either. Thank you for refreshing my memory, Nathan!
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Post by nathan on Jan 30, 2021 16:19:32 GMT -5
My brother also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1983. Rose gin&, a Chamorro also offered for the work to Tharold S. in 1984. Christina Lazaro went in the work for 7 years in California from 1984-1990. Mark L. has a son who is in the work in California for many years now. These are some of the College students that professed in the University Bible Studies on the Campus of Guam in 1980s. Yes, I had forgotten about Mark's son, Eldon, being in the work. He began in Colorado several years ago, but I haven't kept up on where he has been assigned in recent years. Mark L. is Chamorro-Filipino, and his wife, Noemi, is Filipina, so I guess there is a one-quarter Chamorro in the work! Also, Christina's brother, Del, has a son who went into the work in California a few years ago. I mhaven't kept up on his whereabouts either. Thank you for refreshing my memory, Nathan! ** I feel there is a kinship with you who had been on Guam as a worker and I know Jane when she first came to the Bible studied in the beginning and the time she lived in Beaverton/Portland area. Didn't Jane, your wife offered for the work at one time? Mark L. and I Went to the same Junior high school. In 1980 I went to the Philippines to attend 3 conventions Bagio, Rosali and Cavite. I stayed in the home of Mark's wife parents who had lived near Rosali convention. Bob Anderson and John Mastin were on Guam in 1979-80. When I was leaving Guam heading to California to live and work for Denio in Barkerfield, Calf. I spent two weeks staying with Bob Anderson and Larry Taylor's batch and that was where I met Mercy sisters on Ponapei. Uncle Leo Stsncliff had made an arraignment for my brother and myself to stay in Bakerfield, California and for me to start in the work in California 1980s. Well, God had a different plans for us and we ended up in Seattle, Washington instead! It was quite an adventure route that He took us in Seattle. My brother and I offered for the work about the same time in Seattle to Tharaold S. Both of us were waiting to go in the work then, my biological father, my step mother and their children (4) want me the oldest son to sponsor them to come to America to live because the life under Communists regime was unbearable during those days Well, one of us had to take our names off the waiting list so, we could sponsor our family out of Vietnam. I had started the paper works of sponsorship two years, so now my brother volunteered to step down and I could continue keep my name on the waiting list. My brother got married and had a family so, they were able to sponsor my family to come to America. They had Wed. Bible studies and Sunday Union meetings at the age of 26. My family came to Portland in 1990 and all of them are doing good, they live not very far from where I live in Portland. *** Alan, We could have been companions on Calf. Staff if I had lived in that State. I really and truly enjoyed my time in the work with many of the finest companions on Oregon staff.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Jan 30, 2021 16:36:03 GMT -5
** I feel there is a kinship with you who had been on Guam as a worker and I know Jane when she first came to the Bible studied in the beginning and the time she lived in Beaverton/Portland area. Didn't Jane, your wife offered for the work at one time? I don't think Jayne ever offered for the work, though she may have entertained thoughts about it at times.
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Post by nathan on Jan 30, 2021 19:52:30 GMT -5
** I feel there is a kinship with you who had been on Guam as a worker and I know Jane when she first came to the Bible studied in the beginning and the time she lived in Beaverton/Portland area. Didn't Jane, your wife offered for the work at one time? I don't think Jayne ever offered for the work, though she may have entertained thoughts about it at times. *** It seemed God laid upon Many of the University Students that professed about going in the ministry. None of us talked to each other about the Lord had laid upon many of our hearts going forth in the ministry.
When I talked to Kathy Mc. two yrs ago, she mentioned that Christina L. has re-professed.
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Post by nathan on Jan 31, 2021 12:54:34 GMT -5
The guy to help you is Alan Van. send him a PM. He knows the history of 2x2 on Guam and many of the workers, and friends, Alan labored on the islands, he is better than me. He was a worker on Guam after I left there in 1980. This is what I wrote to Cherie in response to her inquiry a few days ago: Leo Stancliff and Harry Henninger were the first workers on Guam, in 1966. This was arranged after Henry E. "bad-mouthed" Leo to the Philippines government, leading to Leo's expulsion from the country. Alan *** Thanks, for the above information. Looking back from the whole experience on Guam, I see God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are Truly ALL KNOWING and ALL SEEING Godhead. The Godhead moves and places the servants and His people at certain to help mankind in Knowing the True Christ. If it wasn't for Leo Stsncliff expulsion from the Philippines in 1960s, there wouldn't be any Bible Studies on the University campus Lawn in 1978. God/Elohim are like the great, great grand master Chess champion players. Their moves are 10 steps ahead of their opponents such as Satan, the fallen angels and their evil human children on earth. When I was in the work the overseers pairs up workers every year to certain field, but the Holy Spirit moves workers around where the needs were needed. I moved to 2 to 3 different fields and 2 to 3 different co-workers in a year, it was stressful but a person has to have faith in the Holy Spirit ability in knowing all of the situation and to move workers around to meet the needs. After the end the year, we saw the wisdom of the Godhead mobed the workers to fill the needs, some workers didn't have companions, too many problems and challenges for one worker to handle without support.
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Post by bfvernon on Feb 1, 2021 16:22:26 GMT -5
Nathan, this is all very interesting! Please keep posting more, as it is so nice to read about your happy and positive experiences. Shalom!
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Post by nathan on Feb 1, 2021 17:53:22 GMT -5
Nathan, this is all very interesting! Please keep posting more, as it is so nice to read about your happy and positive experiences. Shalom! *** Thanks, so much. I will do my best to share most of the experiences God has allowed and lead me through the years. I am shocked and grieved over the sudden death yesterday of my friend Jetmech/Terry, whom I met on TMB over 20 years. We have been good friend, he stood up for me when others were making fun of my ESL through the years. He wanted to return to meetings for quite some time now. God and Christ know his heart so, we leave that part for God to decide.
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Post by mountain on Feb 1, 2021 18:02:42 GMT -5
Nathan, this is all very interesting! Please keep posting more, as it is so nice to read about your happy and positive experiences. Shalom! *** Thanks, so much. I will do my best to share most of the experiences God has allowed and lead me through the years. I am shocked and grieved over the sudden death yesterday of my friend Jetmech/Terry, whom I met on TMB over 20 years. We have been good friend, he stood up for and defend me through the years. He wanted to return to meetings for quite some time now. God and Christ know his heart so, we leave that part for God to decide. You see Nathan what my craziness about Guam has triggered? A very interesting discussion about the Work on Guam and you are having a big input in it.
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Post by nathan on Feb 1, 2021 18:07:31 GMT -5
*** Thanks, so much. I will do my best to share most of the experiences God has allowed and lead me through the years. I am shocked and grieved over the sudden death yesterday of my friend Jetmech/Terry, whom I met on TMB over 20 years. We have been good friend, he stood up for and defend me through the years. He wanted to return to meetings for quite some time now. God and Christ know his heart so, we leave that part for God to decide. You see Nathan what my craziness about Guam has triggered? A very interesting discussion about the Work on Guam and you are having a big input in it. ** Thanks, Ram. God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are ALIVE And they are doing amazing work in many people testimonies, and I am only 1 out of millions lives that made their presence known.
1) Curly wrote: Here are your words Nathan, from another post. Nathan wrote: "I moved to 2 to 3 different fields and 2 to 3 different co-workers in a year, it was stressful but a person has to have faith in the Holy Spirit ability in knowing all of the situation and to move workers around to meet the needs."I have never seen the likes of it anywhere in the 2x2's. Are you sure it was the holy spirit that caused you to be move or your spirit, the one we see on here. ~~ I was a trouble shooter worker! The Holy Spirit moved me around, and sent me to trouble spots or needed help. God prepared me for many years before I went in the work. I was a very easy worker to be with so the older workers who didn't get along with their younger companions, they asked my older companion if we could do a switch with me. A few times, the older companions were alone and I happened to be at the right time and place and he wanted me to be with him.
Many of my older companions I was with NOT once but twice as their co-workers, I made their years easy on their nerves and stress free to be with. I made conventions preps fun, we workers brothers and sisters workers, play volleyballs, basketball in the evenings at preps and many young people from the area came and stayed with us brothers and sisters workers quarters... a few of them went in the work. When I left many sisters cried, and brothers workers were very sad for my departure from the ministry.
God has a new adventure for me to experience, the TMB message board for the next 20 years plus. God has shown me many interesting revelation I wouldn't receive if I were in the work. I would NOT be thinking outside of the BOX, and the workers wouldn't let speak on these New revelation (The history of 2x2 apostles Vaudois/Waldenese, Albigenses, Poor men of Lyons and those like through for 1800 years, and the Faith Mission workers and the 2x2s workers to our days. God the Father, Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit are from inside of Venus planet/heaven, Paradise is in inside the inner earth and inside of Venus planet also.
6000 years ago, the Godhead created Adam and Eve from the dust/ground of the inner earth, they were inner earth dwellers before their Fall, after the fall God cast them to the surface of the earth to live with their human children. The human looking angels the Venusians have been here to help the humans for 6000 years, they are still here to help mankind to usher the believers to the NEW chapter/level the 1000 years reigning of Christ on Earth with His chosen people) freely like I do on TMB.
The Godhead wants the world to KNOW Jesus Christ/God is the KING of kings and the LORD of lord is coming back to rule and reign on earth and throughout the Universe with His chosen TRUE believers. So! Be ready and don't get LEFT behind like the 5 foolish virgins or the 1 talent who buried his gift in the ground.
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Post by mountain on Feb 2, 2021 4:47:02 GMT -5
Nathan, never again question Mountain's (formerly RAM) obsession with delivering entertainment. It is fertile ground for truth to flourish, as you have seen!
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Post by nathan on Feb 2, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5
Nathan, never again question Mountain's (formerly RAM) obsession with delivering entertainment. It is fertile ground for truth to flourish, as you have seen! Truth is more than entertainment, ram my dear old friend, it can and will lead to Salvation or saving of the souls.
6/17/19 Mountain/RAM wrote: Anyway, I have to say that you are a very hard man to fool, Nathan. You meticulously research anything before you will believe it as fact. Such screening makes it very difficult to convince you of anything. I'm sure many on this board will share my views regarding your proneness to detail and doubting. Therefore I would strongly advise anyone who doubts anything that you post, that they likewise venture on the quest of meticulous research before doing so. You've set the standard. Let others follow. Just as the gondolier seldom encounters rabbits in his pathway, so too let your detractors encounter discrepancy with what you present as genuine. Consider Nathan. An extremely intelligent character, who carries out meticulous research before presenting his views on here. Basically he is second to none. Have you noticed that there are several atheists on this board and every time Nathan engages them he wipes the floor with their arguments. Have you ever considered that these atheists are mere concoctions of Nathan, whom he shoots down time and again with his views, leaving himself the master of the debate. Generally there is no contest. Nathan wins hands down every time. They have no answer to him. Have you ever wondered why that is?
2) jetmech said: From what I've read, Roselyn, Jesus will come back like a thief in the night … no one knows when a thief in the night will be coming nor from what direction, nor to what location, etc. So, I can't say one way or the other. I can't outright say my friend is wrong about the Venus; but, I can say that from what I've read in the Bible it's highly unlikely. With that said, I believe too many times different ones on this board are tergiversatious in their thinking and communicating. Ever tried to hold a conversation with a tergiversate? You're wasting your time, because the tergiversate will NEVER agree with you on anything, and that's the very basis of being a tergiversate … never to agree, always to debate … it's a 'condition.' I admire Nathan, especially since he's an Asian, because he understands the English language as well as he does, and I admire the detail at which he understands biblical ideas and concepts after having grown up in Vietnam and moved to the USA and obviously self-taught himself so many things about our culture, adopting our ideas, and taking these things on himself. I don't agree with every little thing Nathan says; but, I can say honestly, I've learned more from Nathan about the Bible than I learned in gospel meeting during my entire childhood and adult life - before I met him on the board.
I believe if the tergiversates who constantly feign disagreement with Nate as a reason to constantly reply negative, would step back, take a breath, pause and contemplate, and "listen to understand" rather than "listen to reply" … they'd see many things to admire Nathan about. 3) STR/SharonW. wrote in 2018: You're absolutely right, Nathan! Jesus, God the Son is such an awesome Almighty One! It still amazes me to think I'd gone nearly 60 yrs. reading the bible very faithfully and NEVER got that for myself! Strange that, eh? I pray for those in the fellowship still, that they can come to that maturity of understanding about our Beloved Lord! I think that they are missing something totally OUT OF THIS WORLD! Simply because the majority of them have LITTLE idea about who Jesus really is! O What A Savior! I had hardly ever heard of the concept except in a table discussion back when I was about 4 or 5 yrs. old. A number of workers and our family sharing a meal together. My Gram having been raised a Baptist, knew what the Trinity concept was. It was brought into discussion and the older workers exclaimed that the doctrine was a heresy! I never heard of the concept again until coming on TMB. Nathan wrote an extensive explanation with scripture backing of what the Trinity means and is...it was almost beyond my comprehension! I became troubled that this was beyond my comprehension so much so, that I prayed to God that "IF HE thought it necessary for me to understand the Trinity, then would HE PLEASE reveal it to me." I left it there and after some time, it begin to come to me at another time of prayer like a light from heaven! The joy of that understanding of my Lord is beyond another imagination, comprehension.... YES! God revealed it to me! Jesus is the most wonderful awesome King of Kings and Lord of Lords and HE died for me! Hallelujah! And I was professing when this happened!
I believed in the Trinity while I was still professing! After I'd studied Jesus Christ for about 3 years and had some long arguments with Nathan and Stanne here on TMB with Scott sometimes putting a bit of information in the kettle, I had to realize that all that Nathan and Stanne were saying about the Trinity was definitely in the bible even thought the word "Trinity" wasn't! As time passed and more realization of what the Trinity was all about, and I'll say we that do believe are always gaining more insight into it as we go on and maturity of using the word of God (the bible) feeding on the "meat of the word" that it is certainly like most of mankind throughout the ages that as each generation lives and dies the more understanding of the heavenly God has come into the minds of that generation. So I feel that ignorance and misunderstanding is what's keeping most in the 2x2 from accepting or knowing the Trinity= Triune God concept!
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Post by mountain on Feb 2, 2021 11:47:51 GMT -5
Nathan, never again question Mountain's (formerly RAM) obsession with delivering entertainment. It is fertile ground for truth to flourish, as you have seen! Truth is more than entertainment, ram my dear old friend, it can and will lead to Salvation or saving of the souls.
6/17/19 Mountain/RAM wrote: Anyway, I have to say that you are a very hard man to fool, Nathan. You meticulously research anything before you will believe it as fact. Such screening makes it very difficult to convince you of anything. I'm sure many on this board will share my views regarding your proneness to detail and doubting. Therefore I would strongly advise anyone who doubts anything that you post, that they likewise venture on the quest of meticulous research before doing so. You've set the standard. Let others follow. Just as the gondolier seldom encounters rabbits in his pathway, so too let your detractors encounter discrepancy with what you present as genuine. Consider Nathan. An extremely intelligent character, who carries out meticulous research before presenting his views on here. Basically he is second to none. Have you noticed that there are several atheists on this board and every time Nathan engages them he wipes the floor with their arguments. Have you ever considered that these atheists are mere concoctions of Nathan, whom he shoots down time and again with his views, leaving himself the master of the debate. Generally there is no contest. Nathan wins hands down every time. They have no answer to him. Have you ever wondered why that is?
2) jetmech said: From what I've read, Roselyn, Jesus will come back like a thief in the night … no one knows when a thief in the night will be coming nor from what direction, nor to what location, etc. So, I can't say one way or the other. I can't outright say my friend is wrong about the Venus; but, I can say that from what I've read in the Bible it's highly unlikely. With that said, I believe too many times different ones on this board are tergiversatious in their thinking and communicating. Ever tried to hold a conversation with a tergiversate? You're wasting your time, because the tergiversate will NEVER agree with you on anything, and that's the very basis of being a tergiversate … never to agree, always to debate … it's a 'condition.' I admire Nathan, especially since he's an Asian, because he understands the English language as well as he does, and I admire the detail at which he understands biblical ideas and concepts after having grown up in Vietnam and moved to the USA and obviously self-taught himself so many things about our culture, adopting our ideas, and taking these things on himself. I don't agree with every little thing Nathan says; but, I can say honestly, I've learned more from Nathan about the Bible than I learned in gospel meeting during my entire childhood and adult life - before I met him on the board.
I believe if the tergiversates who constantly feign disagreement with Nate as a reason to constantly reply negative, would step back, take a breath, pause and contemplate, and "listen to understand" rather than "listen to reply" … they'd see many things to admire Nathan about. 3) STR/SharonW. wrote in 2018: You're absolutely right, Nathan! Jesus, God the Son is such an awesome Almighty One! It still amazes me to think I'd gone nearly 60 yrs. reading the bible very faithfully and NEVER got that for myself! Strange that, eh? I pray for those in the fellowship still, that they can come to that maturity of understanding about our Beloved Lord! I think that they are missing something totally OUT OF THIS WORLD! Simply because the majority of them have LITTLE idea about who Jesus really is! O What A Savior! I had hardly ever heard of the concept except in a table discussion back when I was about 4 or 5 yrs. old. A number of workers and our family sharing a meal together. My Gram having been raised a Baptist, knew what the Trinity concept was. It was brought into discussion and the older workers exclaimed that the doctrine was a heresy! I never heard of the concept again until coming on TMB. Nathan wrote an extensive explanation with scripture backing of what the Trinity means and is...it was almost beyond my comprehension! I became troubled that this was beyond my comprehension so much so, that I prayed to God that "IF HE thought it necessary for me to understand the Trinity, then would HE PLEASE reveal it to me." I left it there and after some time, it begin to come to me at another time of prayer like a light from heaven! The joy of that understanding of my Lord is beyond another imagination, comprehension.... YES! God revealed it to me! Jesus is the most wonderful awesome King of Kings and Lord of Lords and HE died for me! Hallelujah! And I was professing when this happened!
I believed in the Trinity while I was still professing! After I'd studied Jesus Christ for about 3 years and had some long arguments with Nathan and Stanne here on TMB with Scott sometimes putting a bit of information in the kettle, I had to realize that all that Nathan and Stanne were saying about the Trinity was definitely in the bible even thought the word "Trinity" wasn't! As time passed and more realization of what the Trinity was all about, and I'll say we that do believe are always gaining more insight into it as we go on and maturity of using the word of God (the bible) feeding on the "meat of the word" that it is certainly like most of mankind throughout the ages that as each generation lives and dies the more understanding of the heavenly God has come into the minds of that generation. So I feel that ignorance and misunderstanding is what's keeping most in the 2x2 from accepting or knowing the Trinity= Triune God concept!
We will have to continue to differ on the trinity Nathan. I go by what the Bible actually says, not what some think it says.Stick to the actual word of God, not the imaginings of man. Now back to Guam. Is there any more historical data or information that we need to tease out? For meals, did they eat rice or potatoes? Was rice too granular for the Western workers and were potatoes specially imported from Idaho? Thanks in advance.
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Post by nathan on Feb 2, 2021 12:47:40 GMT -5
Yes, there are a lot of interesting and awesome information to be shared and this is just a tip of the iceberg of the Holy Spirit working on earth, guided by God the Father and Christ our Lord God Savior from heaven/Venus. It takes a lot of my time and energy to write these things down on paper the last 40 plus year history of God awesome working miracles of God in the lives of people.
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Post by xna on Feb 6, 2021 23:02:43 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 14:28:37 GMT -5
In Memory of Leo Stancliff 1912-2005:
My brother and I had many good and wonderful memories of the time when we first met Leo Stancliff on the Island of Guam in 1978, where he and his fellow workers, Larry Taylor, John Mastin, Bob Anderson, and others were having Bible Studies on the campus lawn for college students, teachers, staffs, or anyone who wanted to stop by and listen to the gospel message. Uncle Leo, was very kind, compassionate, and a loving person in many special ways. We could ask him any questions in the Bible and he was always ready to answer it with gladness. He loved and enjoyed trying out different ways, or methods so he could share the Gospel of Christ to anyone who has a seeking heart for the Savior. Leo was a very approachable person, he made us feel very comfortable, at easy to ask, discuss any topics. We're very grateful for Leo's unique style of ministry. My brother and I made our choice to serve God at Guam 1st convention in 1980. I offered for the work in March, 1980 and finally started in 8/1986-94 in Oregon, Montana, and Idaho. My years in the ministry were some of the most wonderful memories of my life. Thanks, uncle Leo and your fellow-workers sacrifices by forshaken your carrers, plans of having yours/theirs own families for the sake of our Lord God Jesus Christ and Savior so others might hear the gospel of Christ. Your/theirs love for souls and loving kindness are much appreciated by many. Diary of the workers Leo Stancliff, Herman Beaber, and three other workers during WW II as Prisoners of War in the Philippines. ithascome.bravehost.com/Philippines - Los Banos Internment Camp Sincerely, Nathan B. In Loving Memory of "Leo" L. Stancliff 1912-2005 Funeral Service: Holiday Inn Select, Bakersfield, CA; October 29, 2005. Dale Shultz, Harry Henninger, Linda Passage, Gary Myers Pallbearers: Ken Beckman, Joe Layman, Larry Smith, Kevin Gifford, Jeremy Gibson, David Drew Pianists: Jonathan Wright, Karen Bone, Heather Hansen. Internment: Hillcrest Cemetery, Bakersfield, CA; October 29, 2005-12:00 p.m. Officiating: Ed Alexander, Joyce Jackson Obituary - Dale Shultz: We are gathered today in loving memory of Leo Llewellyn Stancliff, who was born to Clifton and Talitha Stancliff on December 19, 1912 in Torrance, California. Clifton and Talitha heard the gospel through Eddie Cornock and Wilfred Allington and made their choice to serve God on March 20, 1920 in Bakersfield. Leo later yielded his life to God on June 2, 1929 and began in the ministry in 1933. He first went to the Philippine Islands to carry the gospel on January 4, 1940. During the course of the World War II, Leo was held in a Japanese internment camp near Manila along with Willie Jamieson, Herman Beaber and Cecil Barrett. For 3½ years, the family heard nothing from or about Leo and didn't know if he was dead or alive. It was a wonderful day when the American troops moved in and rescued these prisoners who were close to starvation. He spent many years in the Philippines, working among people who spoke the Tagalog and Ilocano languages and later spent several years on Guam and Pohnapei before returning to the USA mainland in 1980, where he spent his remaining years in California and Nevada. He suffered a stroke in 2003 after which he became a resident in a number of care facilities. He moved from Redwood Village Assisted Living in Bakersfield to the Pleasant Care Convalescent Hospital in Bakersfield in February of 2005. He passed away there at 2:35 PM on Tuesday, October 18 at the age of 92 years. Leo was predeceased by his parents, Clifton & Talitha Stancliff of Bakersfield and by one brother, Wilfred, also of Bakersfield. He is lovingly remembered by a brother, Robert Stancliff of Stayton, Oregon; a sister, Laurena Escola of Bakersfield; a brother, Gerald Stancliff of Bakersfield and a brother, John (Jack) Stancliff of Bakersfield. He is fondly remembered also by his many nieces and nephews, other extended family members, his fellow-laborers in the ministry and a host of friends around the world. Leo is remembered for his studious approach to the Bible and his love for the Word of God. He is also remembered for his zeal and enthusiasm in reaching out to needy souls with the gospel, which had the power to transform their lives. Many rejoice today because Leo and his companions came their way. Prayer - Dale Shultz Hymn #408, "No Reputation" - sung by congregation The gospel comes to Bakerfield, CaliforniaDear folks:I am sending this out to some of you and if there are corrections or things that you would like to change please let me know. I have to give special thanks to David Goss and our daughter Shannon in editing and Miriam Murray and Mel Denio in sending some suggestions and if there are any other things to add or change please feel free to let me know.Yours Through His Mercy,Jack StancliffHistory #6…Edited Sunday Jan. 6, 2008 Early History of the Gospel in Bakersfield.In order to give a history of the Lord’s work in the early days here in Bakersfield, USA I am going to try and set down a few things I remember. Also, as you read this, please feel free to contact me to offer corrections and additions to this history. Obviously, I wasn’t around in the early days so what I present here is what I remember my folks and family sharing, including my brother Leo. Others who shared memories with me include our Uncle Arthur Stancliff, Hugh Denio, and Jim Bone. Also, having had the privilege of spending a year with Uncle Willie Jamieson while I was in the work, he shared a few facts as well.Ervin Weir was with George Walker and William Irvine when they came to America in September of 1903. He came out here to California and contacted Clyde Brownlee in Long Beach in 1904. Clyde was the father of Harry Brownlee who later went in the work in 1934. Clyde tried to help Irvine with the gospel work but Irvine himself was confused on some points and the gospel really got started in earnest when Willie Jamieson came to California.
Jim Bone remembered it as Sept. 1905 but Uncle Willie recalled it as 1906. Uncle Willie and Ervin Weir had their first mission together, according to Jim Bone, in September 1905 in San Luis Obispo and that was where Bert and Retta Waite heard the gospel and professed. Their home was the first open home in California. They were the parents of Eva who later married Jim Bone.In November of 1905, according to Jim Bone’s account, the workers moved to Paso Robles and set up a tent on the northeast corner of Thirteenth and Spring St. It was there that the Hills, McPhails, Weibes and others professed and on Christmas day 25 were baptized. While the tent was still up, they used it to hold the first convention in California and perhaps in America. Two people from the Bakersfield area made their start in those days. One was Benjie Denio. She was the wife of John Denio, the oldest of the original Denio boys. John professed when Gladys Porteous and Hazel Pierce and Isabel Boyd had meetings in a portable hall on Truman and Birdie Denio’s place in 1951, forty five years after Benjie. The other person from Bakersfield to profess at Paso Robles was Jake Compher. Jake was the father of Pauline Denio and grandfather of Justin Denio. Justin married Florence Middleton and they had the meeting in the home where my folks went before I went in the work. The other children of Bill & Pauline Denio are Bernice Severson, Evelyn Huddle and Mel and Jim Denio. Jake had a difficult life because his wife was opposed to the Lord’s way and made Jake sleep in the chicken coop at times. Jake would frequently go up to Balance Rock in the mountains to a cabin my folks had and would find a little peace there.After the convention in Paso Robles, Willie Jamieson, Jim Martin, Elizabeth Jamieson and Esther Hanson went to Oregon. Irvine Weir, Walter Slater, Eddie Weir and Bessie Dunkin then came to the Bakersfield area. As chance would have it, one day while the sisters, Edie Weir and Bessie Dunkin were walking down the road, they met grandma Bone, Jim and John Bone’s mother. She invited them to come and stay with them. Eddie and Bessie did so and had a mission in which only grandma Bone professed in. Later the Bones had the four workers in their home and at that time Mr. Bone was very friendly but later he became very opposed to the truth. For a time, the Sunday meeting would alternate. During one of the meetings in the Bone home, Lela Denio, a daughter-in-law of grandpa and grandma Denio, professed. Lela was a sister-in-law to Benjie and Bertie Denio. Lela was holding Sproulie in her arms as a baby when she stood up. This would have been about late 1909 or early 1910 because Sproulie was born in 1909. Lela went on faithfully by herself for the next 9 or 10 years until her husband Hugh professed in either late 1919 or early 1920. Lela would harness the team up and take the children to the meetings and convention by her self during the years before Hugh professed. Sproulie went in the work in 1931 and he and Don Garland were the first to take the gospel to Korea.Sproulie’s brother Truman went in the work in 1933, the same year as my brother Leo Stancliff. Truman went to the Philippines in the late 1940’s and their sister Lena went in the work about 1935. Carl Denio went in the work about 1937. Their son Ken, along with Ken’s wife Ann, lived on the old Bakersfield convention grounds for many years. After Lela Denio professed, gospel meetings were held in the Fruitvale and Rosedale area. It was there that grandma Denio and Daisy Stewart professed as well as Mary Brown. Later a Sunday morning meeting was established in the Brown home because they didn’t have transportation to go elsewhere. There was a convention in 1909 on the Jim Hill place which was right across the river from the McPhail place. After this convention, Bessie Dunkin and Florence Langworthy came to Bakersfield and got the Sunday meetings started, alternating between the Brown’s home on the southwest corner of 6th and N Streets and the Bone home. The first convention for the Bakersfield folks was in Filmore and the girls had gospel meetings in the Norris School and it was there that grandpa Jim Denio professed. That school house is preserved in Pioneer Village (Kern Museum) as a replica of the old country school. Jim Bone was the first of the Bone boys to profess in 1909 and later John professed. Jim and Eva had four children. Their daughter, Mabel Bone married Roy Slater. Their oldest son, David, married Kay Hill and David was later killed in a plane accident. Jim and Eva also had another son, Bernard. In addition, they had a daughter, Mary, who married Milne Stearns who has the convention grounds at Buttonwillow. Mary and Milne’s daughter Barbara has been in the work in Eastern Europe. Jim and Eva had the convention grounds at Gilroy for many years and were people who possessed a wonderful spirit. Jim’s brother, John Bone married Eva Hill and they later moved onto the Parma convention grounds after the Fishers moved off the place. Later, their son Lloyd and his wife Esther bought the Parma convention grounds from Jim and Eva. We met with John and Eva in Tulelake, California for union meetings at the time my folks had a cattle ranch in Alturas, California from 1948-1951. I might put in here a little concerning Jack Carroll and Willie Jamieson as they were so instrumental in their influence in the truth through those early years. Jack Carrol first came to America in May of 1904 and spent the early years in the eastern part of the country. I am not sure what year he first came to California but perhaps 1910 or maybe even before. Jack upheld the standard of Christ as well as any worker that I have ever been in contact with and he had great respect for Paul and his ministry and a lot of the time when he would speak it would be concerning Paul and his epistles. He was a very humble man but also a great leader.There came the time in the early 1920’s that Jack Carrol and Willie Jamieson felt the need of some one to go to the Orient and it seems that it was a very wise decision to have Willie who was a great pioneer go first to China in the early 1920’s and Jack stayed here with the oversight of the work on the West Coast. Willie went through many dangerous experiences with his companions in China including hiding in a barrel when in danger of death and the fear of being put in front of the firing squads and some of his companions their health just couldn’t stand it and ended up having to leave the work. He then went through the experience of the internment camp in the Philippines during the second World War. Jack passed away in 1957 and Willie passed away in 1974. It was some time between the convention in 1909 and when my folks professed in 1920, that Uncle Willie and Jack Carroll had a meeting on those grounds of Alec McPhails place. William Irvine was the man that both Jack Carroll and Willie Jamieson had heard first and professed through. Carl Wren told my dad Irvine could keep an audience spellbound for 3 hours.They had seen things in his life and in his words that caused them to question his integrity and so they asked to have this meeting at Alec McPhails place. William Irvine made the statement to Uncle Willie and Jack Carroll that he felt like he had gotten beyond the place of needing to pray and it was then that they realized that he had strayed from the lowly way. A feeling of need is so essential and seeking the Lord’s help is far more important than great preaching. All through his life, Uncle Willie was deeply affected by this. He often mentioned that the thing he feared the most was being up in front of God’s people without the Lord’s presence. He feared what Willie was humanly being the thing that would effect God’s people.I will insert an occurrence that I had after leaving the work. I was doing appliance service work for Wayne Ramey and Bruce Grow in their Airport Appliance business they had at the time. Wayne dropped me off at very fancy wealthy home in the Lake Tahoe area and I was to work on a vacuum cleaner for this lady. I started to look at the vacuum cleaner and the woman started talking and I immediately turned around and asked her if she would happen to know Jack, May and Fanny Carroll. Her voice was the give away. She told me she was their sister and I believe her name was Mrs. Perrot (sp?). She was all made up and lots of jewelry and a very fancy home but at one time her and her husband had been in the work and a part of God’s true and living way but there were things that they were unwilling for.Jack Carroll was very firm in holding to the standard of Christ and it didn’t matter whether it was his own brother or sister or those that had professed in his meetings or those in the work, Jack held firm to Christ and his standard. I might mention another thing that Carl W. told our dad and that was that one year he was a companion of Willie Jamieson and after they divided up the funds after the workers meeting to go to their new field their portion was 25 cents. They left the workers meeting and walked down the road and found some vegetables that had fallen off of a wagon and ate those and went a little farther and found and empty chicken coop and spent the night there and they were off to preach the gospel.In 1919 Eddie Cornock and Wilferd Allington had a mission in Bakersfield and there were about 20 or so that professed. Some who professed at that time were Alice Froelich (who later was in the work and went to Germany), Bertie Denio, Mamie Philips and many others. The workers then went to Orcutt to prepare for convention and it was there that Hugh Denio professed (the father of Sproulie). After the convention, Eddie, Wilfred and Jack Carroll came back to Bakersfield. Jack Carroll gave our mom the invitation to the gospel meetings and pop had mom go to the meeting first. She came home and showed pop the notes she had taken. Mom and Pop stayed up until 2:30 AM looking up the references. Pop had claimed to be an atheist so he didn’t really know the Bible. However, after mom came home with her notes from the meeting, they got down the old family Bible and looked up the references. Leo Stancliff remembered that when they found out how the ministry was suppose to go out, all Pop would say is “That is what the Bible says!” Pop and Mom then both went to the next meeting which was supposed to be the boys last. The workers had these two or three missions they were going to close so they said that they would like to have some home meetings.A person would feel that they meant to have home meetings in some of these homes of the people that had professed in their meetings. Pop went up to them after the meeting though and said he would like to have them come and have meetings in our home. The folks had a very small home then but the workers came and it was in about the 5th or 6th meeting that both Mom and Pop professed. It was on March 20th 1920. We will always be thankful for the love for the Lord’s way that our folks had. The first year after our folks professed, the workers moved the convention to Grandpa and Grandma Denio’s place and pop helped prepare for the first convention there. Things were very primitive then but the convention was at Denio’s until 1969. It was then moved to Buttonwillow, to the Stearns farm where it is presently. Pop wanted to go in the work although he had 3 children (Leo, Bob and Laurena). The workers told him that he was just where they wanted him to be. He had a little black book and in it he had it divided into 3 parts. In the first part, pop listed the “hot prospects,” those he was Most Hopeful for. The second part was those he was “HOPEFUL FOR.” The third part was those he wanted to “KEEP IN CONTACT,” with. When there were gospel meetings going on, pop would frequently take those of us of an age of understanding with him to look up some of those folks. I can remember some of the things which he told them. Some folks said “Well if what you say is right Mr. Stancliff then there won’t be many saved!” Pop said “Well how many went into the ark?” They would answer, “8!” Pop replied, “Wouldn’t you want to one of the 8?”A man that I should mention, in conjunction with my fathers early days, is Charlie Cook. Charlie had professed in Canada and it is my understanding that he was quite wealthy when he professed. Charlie helped others out and had given his wealth away. The workers said that wherever there was a need, Charlie always seemed to end up there to help out. Pop had to lead the meeting before he had professed very long and Charlie was a great help to my dad with his wise counsel in those early days. When Charlie died he had nothing but Pop paid for his funeral plot at the old Union Cemetery. It is close to where Grandpa and Grandma Denio, Bill and Pauline Denio and Jake Compher are buried. The folks had the meeting in their home for many years and for a long time it was at 408 Oregon Street with the two tall trees out in front. They not only had the regular Sunday morning meeting but often they had union meetings there with all the friends in Bakersfield there. Sometimes there were over 100 people with some having to sit back in the kitchen and down the hallway. It was just a small 2 bedroom home with 1 bathroom. Our folks had a lot of company and workers would stay there and stay after meeting for meals that Mom prepared.Perhaps I can relate a little about some that I remember from the early days around Bakersfield. I can often remember my dad talking about spiritual things especially with Uncle Arthur Stancliff and Hugh Denio. Arthur had professed in Oregon through Bill Corcoran and then he moved back to Bakersfield and got married to Alma. He lost contact with the truth. However, Uncle Arthur saw a group assembled often at where the convention grounds later were at the Denio place. Uncle Arthur stopped and talked to Grandpa Denio. He asked Mr. Denio about what was going on. He told Art that he wouldn’t understand. So Art asked how the preacher went out and Grandpa Denio told him. Art said “Well that is just like what I met in Oregon!” Grandpa Denio told him “Oh no Art! You wouldn’t understand!” Art asked how they met and when Grandpa told him, Art said, “That is just like what I met in Oregon!” Grandpa said, “Oh no Art!”Finally, there were gospel meetings Eddie Cornock had and Grandpa Denio said it would be OK for Art to come. Art asked Eddie if he ever heard of Bill Corcoran. Eddie said, “Yes!!! Bill Corcoran was my first companion!” Art re-professed and was a very faithful man who loved the Lord’s way for the rest of his life. Art’s wife Alma professed but she didn’t very often come to meetings. Alma came to a couple of meetings at convention and a few times to the Special Meetings at the Fruitvale School. Alma made it quite hard for Art in many ways but he kept a wonderful spirit. Art worked for many years for our father in pop’s welding and machine shop. Art led the Sunday morning meeting at the Denio place and the Sunday night meeting at Carver’s place for years. I might insert here a little from a lady Miriam Murray who with her husband Peter have a meeting in their home in Lafayette, Louisiana and she is the daughter of Newton Bowman. Newton was in the work in California and Arizona between 1928-1937 and spent time with Frank Dennison and Ralph Blackburn and was there in the work when they got the Casa Grande convention grounds ready originally. She asked if I could add anything concerning Arizona and the only thing that I can remember and that is just from my folks telling me about it as it was before my time but they went over and spent time traveling around in Arizona with Frank Dennison, Ralph Blackburn, May Dennison and Ersil Gauntz (if someone can help with the spelling etc. on this). There were very few friends in Arizona at the time and it seemed from what I remember of the folks telling about it that they had to rough it some as very few friends to stay with.Other missions I should mention that took place in the Bakersfield area in the early days was the missions that Tharold Sylvester, Carrol Stevenson and Willie Jamieson had in approximately 1938-40. In Bakersfield, they contacted Mrs. Heilman. When they knocked on her door she was by her bed praying for preachers to come like she read about in her Bible. She professed and was very faithful. She had a husband by the name of Jack and a son by the name of Jack Jr. and they were both alcoholics. Her husband beat her and broke her ribs and hip. I remember the folks would take her to meetings and they would ask her to go out to eat with them and she would say, “ No, if Jack comes home I would want to be there to fix his lunch.” Another couple of ladies that professed in those meetings in Bakersfield were Mrs. Kush and her daughter Mary. Mary later married my brother Gerald. After Carrol had contacted them, he came back thrilled and said that he had made contact with a woman that wanted the truth. Both Mrs. Kush and Mary professed and her husband was very opposed. At one time he said that if they went to the meeting that day he would shoot them when they came back. They went to the meeting anyway and kept on going.They also had meetings in the Shafter area and it was there that the Kazou’s (sp?) and the Showalters professed. Lawrence and Alice Showalter later had the meeting in their home in Petaluma, California and their daughter married Fred Fritz who is the brother of Ardath Fritz in the work in Canada. Grandma Ella Carver was another wonderful woman. She lived out on a farm in the Fairfax district of Bakersfield when that was all just farm land. Later, probably around the late 1940’s, they moved into Bakersfield to a home that was just south of Brundage Lane and just east of Chester Avenue. They had the Sunday night meeting there for many years. Ella professed probably around the time that Eddie Cornock had the meetings. Her husband professed in the mission Leo Stancliff had in probably 1947 when Jim Carver professed and Leo had it after he and Dan Hilton had the mission in Feather Falls. Alice Froelich and one of the Vincent girls helped him in this mission and this was after Leo had come home from the interment camp.In that mission Newton and Violet Brown professed. Newton was a brother of Charlotte Brown who was in the work and Violet was a sister of Dottie Doe in the LA area. Also, in the same mission, Glen and Virginia York professed. Glen and Virginia had the meeting in their home for many years and Newton and Violet later moved to Seattle. They had a meeting in their home and got the workers mail for many years. This mission that Leo had was right after the mission he had in the company run town of Feather Falls with Dan Hilton where so many professed. Grandma Carver was the grandmother of Lavere Langston. Also, I wanted to just briefly mention my brother Leo’s internment. Leo and Herman Beaber first went to the Philippines on January 4th 1940 and were captured sometime in 1941 and we didn’t hear from Leo for 3 years and 6 months. We got the news of Leo’s release from prison on March 8th 1945. We remember the date so clearly because it was the night before our sister Laurena was to get married to George Escola. A telegram came to the door. Pop opened it and it said Leo Stancliff was safe. Also, it said Willie Jamieson, Herman Beaber, Cecil Barrett, as well as Leo, had been rescued out of the internment camp at Los Banos in the Philippines.Another couple that I should mention is Mr. and Mrs. Ayers. Winnie was an especially fine woman and was the sister of Tima Hutchison of the San Jose area. She was a very capable woman with a wonderful spirit. Their one daughter Ruby married Milton Sparks and they lived in the Santa gin& area and then later moved to Oregon and their one son Glenn Sparks has been in the work for many years. The Ayers came out from Colorado where they professed. I (Jack Stancliff) professed at the Bakersfield convention on October 19th 1946 when Willie Brown was leading the meeting and after we had set through a mission in Santa gin& that summer. One of the friends in New Zealand that had been in the work in Southeast Asia mentioned to me that he had been at that convention and that Willie Brown told me to stand on the bench because I was so small. We always sat in the front row with Pop.There are many that went in the work from the Bakersfield area. To begin listing them, Sproulie, Truman, Lena and Carl Denio, Alice Froelich and Leo Stancliff were some of the first. Then there was Hilda Hansen, Barbara Stearns, Karen Bone, Marilyn Denio, Richard Wulf, Richard Den Herder and Jon McDonald. Another dear sister, although she didn’t start out from Bakersfield, is Esther Jones. Her mother lived in Bakersfield and Esther spent her last years in Bakersfield and was a great help to me before starting in the work. This is just my second draft. I’ll send it out as is, and please feel free to add to or make corrections on anything I have left out or may need changing. Jack, I’ve read this over and changed just a very few things. At this point, you can send it out as the second draft and ask for corrections, additions or deletions. It looks pretty good to me at this point. And, I think you did a great job on it. It looks, at this point, that there is very little to add or change. There’s much I’ve learned from reading it.Your Pal,Daveweb.archive.org/web/20161030013245/http://2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/3
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Post by nathan on Feb 12, 2021 14:47:30 GMT -5
Harry Henniger first co-worker with Leo Stancliff on the island of Guam. Speaking at Leo Stancliff funeral
I was recently comforted with a thought recorded in Psalms 102:19-20, speaking of the Lord, "For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth; to hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death." While we were looking down on the dark world, with the lights of Agana, Guam (1966) shining beneath us, we just saw the lights of that city and wondered in our minds, 'Who would be out there?' With that thought was a comfort that the Lord was looking down on Guam at that time, not just seeing the lights of that city but looking into the very heart and soul and the depth of individuals who were there.
We have some sitting here with us today, and I have already spoken to some of them briefly, that were out there in the dark of that island, waiting. Today, they are enjoying fellowship with us and they were the ones that the Lord was looking on their hearts and lives. Others have mentioned things that they have appreciated about Leo and my observation is much the same, of the things that recently came to mind about Leo.
I have appreciated three things about him. One was his optimism for what was going to happen in a natural way, his optimism and his optimistic outlook for the work on the island. When we did not know a soul yet, we put together 50 benches, the folding kind that collapse or hinge, the kind used in the Philippines. Leo said, "I think we had better make 50 of them." That was a little picture of his optimism in regard to what was going to happen. He was filled with expectation and hope that those benches would some day get filled, and many of them did. We are thankful for that.
Another thing about Leo was that he had very few interests. His whole interest was in this matter of the work of the gospel. We used to enjoy evenings together in the batch, just talking about natural things sometimes. He liked mechanics and welding, and I enjoyed things like that. But really, Leo's whole interest was in the work of the gospel. It was his chief interest, and you could even say it was his hobby, the work of the gospel. As has already been suggested, Leo was unrelenting in his endeavor in different ways to reach out and help people in whatever manner that he could. His motto was and maybe many of you have heard it: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." He would take many a venture and try different things, just thinking of ways how he could reach someone and help others to know this wonderful truth of God.
We were mentioning those verses that said, "We are laborers together with God." I was noticing something just recently in connection with this matter of the work of God. In Nehemiah 3, we read about those who were building the wall. It mentions different backgrounds of people. There were apothecaries, goldsmiths, the sons of rulers and the Gibeonites who were the drawers of water. There were many backgrounds and they were all laboring together in the work that was being accomplished.
Someone made a statement about this that appears frequently, "And next to him repaired so and so... " We were just reminded of the fact that the work of each one, by necessity, blended with the work of the one laboring next to them and so the work was accomplished. They were people of different walks of life, but they were walking in a common cause to repair and build the wall and the destruction that was there.
Then when it was all done, the work of many laboring side by side, it all fit together perfectly. It is a wonderful thing when we think of Leo's labors in the different parts of the world. The people there loved the servants of God that came, each one different in their individual ways, but their work all blended together.
I was remembering something that happened quite a number of years ago, when the space vehicle that landed on the moon was built by the space agency. It was very interesting that the contracts for that space vehicle were farmed out to many different shops and factories around the nation. I suppose there were thousands or even millions of components, but all were working from the same master plan and blue print. The time came when all those components came together and were used, and that vehicle took off from the earth. It reached its destination and landed on the moon. That was because all the work that was done in many parts of the nation fit perfectly, because they followed the pattern. It all united together.
It just caused me to remember those words that we have in Ephesians 1:10, "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him." When we think of this precious work that Leo and his companions had a part in, it's all going to come together one day. When we read that verse in Revelations, it was just a comfort today to think that Leo now is in the realm of what we read about in that verse, "That they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them." When I think of works following them, I think of an influence.
We don't have much left now that belonged to Leo. Others have been going through his few things and sorting them out, and the body that remains of Leo is just his earthly tabernacle. Everything of the spirit has gone on but one important thing, of course that he has left behind, which many of you can relate to, is the influence of his life upon your life and upon my life. Gary was speaking about the simple truths that he spoke. I still have things indelibly printed in my heart and mind, simple things he spoke and dug out and researched that have been a wonderful help to my own heart and to my own soul.
The time came when Leo made his choice, and then he went out into the work. The many places where he has labored and the influence of his life upon the lives of other - that influence is going on. It is like that familiar little parable that has often been used, "Our influence is like a pebble dropped in the lake. It quickly sinks to the bottom and is gone, but then the ripples begin to go out further and further and reach every shore." We are thankful for this today. Just briefly, these are some of the things that I have appreciated and many of you out there could add many, many things to the appreciation for his life.
Hymn #322, "Help me Lord to be Wholehearted" - sung by the
congregation (Dale Shultz said Leo was whole hearted so it was appropriate to sing this hymn, "Help me Lord to be whole hearted.")
Prayer - Harry Henninger
Internment Prayer - Joyce Jackson
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