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Post by nathan on May 10, 2020 17:08:57 GMT -5
Different system in which way? Can you give me three examples.
Jesus did not force his will on his disciples. He rebuked but he didn’t control. Today there is so much control over what the workers are ALLOWED to do or to say, which quenches the spirit and limits individual gifts. Most overseers are enforcers of traditions and social expectations and many such things that Jesus did not live or teach. Ye swallow a camel and strain at a gnat. The workers live and travel like the wealthy. Jesus lived and travelled humbly. Everywhere Jesus went he lived and taught truth. Not confined to gospel meeting. Today the workers are afraid of being labeled so heavenly minded they’re no earthly good...that brings persecution. No one wants persecution. So there’s very little teaching in our homes about Jesus. Our homes are just becoming free room and board in exchange for one wishy-washy gospel meeting per week. Jesus never disposed of anyone that was following him. Workers do that and have labeled some that disagreed with or questioned their thinking, an “enemy of the truth” while their own thinking was an enemy to the truth. I notice what you often defend is your own experiences from the past which were good times but you fail to see the suffering or the burdens of the people at the expense of caring for workers who aren’t living as much like Jesus as they think they are. Many workers are unapproachable. Jesus was approachable. Many workers want nothing to do with “problems”....like the hireling, they flee when trouble comes. Or worse, jusl eliminate the person asking for help like in my situation. Jesus did not brake the bruised reed or quenched the smoking flax. Workers are not paying attention to scriptures. And then there’s you gathering information on the internet from some quack. We have enough in the bible to go on without adding any of that to it. Really it fits into the truth we have today just as much as anything. Anyone’s thinking but Jesus. More and more people are disgusted with religion or truth because it’s so badly represented. ** We want to uphold the teaching of Jesus above the workers traditions. The workers are NOT perfect, they are humans and we must learn to forgive them for their short comings. NOT ALL preachers are bad or teachings false doctrines, some have good understandings on different subjects. So, I take what is good, sound teachings and throw away the false teachings out the window. Like we read in Acts about the Bereans search the scriptures daily to see what Paul had taught them according to God's teachings. They didn't take Paul's words for it because he was a servant of God. We must do the same by examining and studying the workers teachings and all preachers teachings also.
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Post by Ross.Bowden on May 10, 2020 23:08:19 GMT -5
Hmmm - I think it is pretty clear why Jesus didn't get married. He was/is the eternal Son - He didn't need a wife who he knew would be widowed fairly early on. If workers followed Jesus as the so-called "pattern preacher" they would all only be in the work for 3 and half years before they headed for Jerusalem to be crucified. This whole "pattern preacher" thing is not Scriptural but invented by William and Eddie. Jesus was the Messiah - specific role and work to do in leaving heaven, entering humanity, dying and rising again. He IS the gospel. ** If Jesus wanted all his apostles to be married he could have set the example as a married apostle easily. He could have married one of his women converts and set the example for His apostles to follow but he DID NOT. In Matthew 19 Jesus said some eunuchs or unmarried men did this way for the kingdom of God... He set the example for His apostles to follow. Jesus/God knew the gospel will continue for more than the next 2000 yrs and many men and women will need to send forth to preach the gospel Jesus SAVES until he comes again. Jesus gospel work/preaching on earth was over 3 years but the apostles through the centuries will be much, much longer than Jesus. We/believers are at the end of the Gentiles era to enter the kingdom of God. William Irvine and 2x2 workers did NOT start the Matthew 10 2x2 pattern ministry they copied from the Faith Mission. They added baptism for their converts and Sunday morning worship gathering meetings in the homes of 2x2. The Vaudois/Waldenses practiced Matthew 10 2x2 apostles going by Faith AND to trust God for their needs for 1800 yrs prior to the Faith Mission and the 2x2 workers. Matthew 10 pattern is NOT NEW pattern and the 2x2 workers were NOT the first ones either to do it. With respect, there is about as much similarity between the Vaudois/Waldenses and the 2x2 as there is between my dog and the small lizards he chases everyday in the backyard. Major doctrinal differences and major differences in practices.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 23:16:18 GMT -5
** If Jesus wanted all his apostles to be married he could have set the example as a married apostle easily. He could have married one of his women converts and set the example for His apostles to follow but he DID NOT. In Matthew 19 Jesus said some eunuchs or unmarried men did this way for the kingdom of God... He set the example for His apostles to follow. Jesus/God knew the gospel will continue for more than the next 2000 yrs and many men and women will need to send forth to preach the gospel Jesus SAVES until he comes again. Jesus gospel work/preaching on earth was over 3 years but the apostles through the centuries will be much, much longer than Jesus. We/believers are at the end of the Gentiles era to enter the kingdom of God. William Irvine and 2x2 workers did NOT start the Matthew 10 2x2 pattern ministry they copied from the Faith Mission. They added baptism for their converts and Sunday morning worship gathering meetings in the homes of 2x2. The Vaudois/Waldenses practiced Matthew 10 2x2 apostles going by Faith AND to trust God for their needs for 1800 yrs prior to the Faith Mission and the 2x2 workers. Matthew 10 pattern is NOT NEW pattern and the 2x2 workers were NOT the first ones either to do it. With respect, there is about as much similarity between the Vaudois/Waldenses and the 2x2 as there is between my dog and the small lizards he chases everyday in the backyard. Major doctrinal differences and major differences in practices. something doesn't have to be even close to 100% to be called similar.... similar: resembling without being identical:
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Post by nathan on May 11, 2020 0:59:39 GMT -5
** If Jesus wanted all his apostles to be married he could have set the example as a married apostle easily. He could have married one of his women converts and set the example for His apostles to follow but he DID NOT. In Matthew 19 Jesus said some eunuchs or unmarried men did this way for the kingdom of God... He set the example for His apostles to follow. Jesus/God knew the gospel will continue for more than the next 2000 yrs and many men and women will need to send forth to preach the gospel Jesus SAVES until he comes again. Jesus gospel work/preaching on earth was over 3 years but the apostles through the centuries will be much, much longer than Jesus. We/believers are at the end of the Gentiles era to enter the kingdom of God. William Irvine and 2x2 workers did NOT start the Matthew 10 2x2 pattern ministry they copied from the Faith Mission. They added baptism for their converts and Sunday morning worship gathering meetings in the homes of 2x2. The Vaudois/Waldenses practiced Matthew 10 2x2 apostles going by Faith AND to trust God for their needs for 1800 yrs prior to the Faith Mission and the 2x2 workers. Matthew 10 pattern is NOT NEW pattern and the 2x2 workers were NOT the first ones either to do it. With respect, there is about as much similarity between the Vaudois/Waldenses and the 2x2 as there is between my dog and the small lizards he chases everyday in the backyard. Major doctrinal differences and major differences in practices. I have studied the Vaudois history, doctrine and their 2x2 apostolic ministry, and form of worship gathering for over 30 years.... It's so close, similar to the early days workers belief, and form of worship and the current workers the only thing they are off course is their belief on the Godhead, Jesus is NOT God, the Deity of Christ. The current workers and friends just understand Jesus is the Son of God who died for their sins and that is good enough for them.... This Godhead is changing more friends began to understand who Jesus is like the early days workers and friends.
I believe the Holy Spirit was guiding the Vaudois, and many those like them through the centuries, the Faith Mission had a good start, and the 2x2 workers have improved with baptism for their converts, Sunday morning fellowship/worship meeting, and Don't join the churches of your choices like the Faith Mission had done.
Jesus Christ is coming back for the bride/church/assembly of believers which he died for and left behind that He and the apostles started in the 1st century church. He is coming back to rapture His true bride to rule and reign with Him during the 1000 yrs on earth and NOT with the false ones/5 foolish virgins.
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Post by Ross.Bowden on May 11, 2020 3:26:26 GMT -5
With respect, there is about as much similarity between the Vaudois/Waldenses and the 2x2 as there is between my dog and the small lizards he chases everyday in the backyard. Major doctrinal differences and major differences in practices. I have studied the Vaudois history, doctrine and their 2x2 apostolic ministry, and form of worship gathering for over 30 years.... It's so close, similar to the early days workers belief, and form of worship and the current workers the only thing they are off course is their belief on the Godhead, Jesus is NOT God, the Deity of Christ. The current workers and friends just understand Jesus is the Son of God who died for their sins and that is good enough for them.... This Godhead is changing more friends began to understand who Jesus is like the early days workers and friends.
I believe the Holy Spirit was guiding the Vaudois, and many those like them through the centuries, the Faith Mission had a good start, and the 2x2 workers have improved with baptism for their converts, Sunday morning fellowship/worship meeting, and Don't join the churches of your choices like the Faith Mission had done.
Jesus Christ is coming back for the bride/church/assembly of believers which he died for and left behind that He and the apostles started in the 1st century church. He is coming back to rapture His true bride to rule and reign with Him during the 1000 yrs on earth and NOT with the false ones/5 foolish virgins.
Nate - the difference you mention is fundamental. There is 180 degrees difference between one church saying that Jesus is part of the Godhead and another saying that Jesus was just a man who was helped by the HS to overcome - chalk and cheese. I accept (and you do as well) that there have always been people chosen by God on this earth in the 2000 years since Christ ascended. The problem is that the workers don’t - so you can write forever about the Vaudois/Waldenses but it won’t make one iota of difference to what the workers think. They believe that after the apostles died out that the “stump” (whatever the stump is...) lay dormant for nearly 1900 years until William came along and poured fertiliser on it and it sprouted again. All that sprouted was their own group based on their own righteousness. Christ or His righteousness are obviously not the stump, because Christ or His work in people have never been dormant!
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Post by slowtosee on May 11, 2020 8:17:36 GMT -5
Kinda hit me , when a worker at convention spoke about “ when the gospel first went to Greece” and he was talking about when a 2x2 worker went there in 19– - . Paul didn’t rate , I thought ??
Alvin
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Post by nathan on May 11, 2020 9:19:01 GMT -5
I have studied the Vaudois history, doctrine and their 2x2 apostolic ministry, and form of worship gathering for over 30 years.... It's so close, similar to the early days workers belief, and form of worship and the current workers the only thing they are off course is their belief on the Godhead, Jesus is NOT God, the Deity of Christ. The current workers and friends just understand Jesus is the Son of God who died for their sins and that is good enough for them.... This Godhead is changing more friends began to understand who Jesus is like the early days workers and friends.
I believe the Holy Spirit was guiding the Vaudois, and many those like them through the centuries, the Faith Mission had a good start, and the 2x2 workers have improved with baptism for their converts, Sunday morning fellowship/worship meeting, and Don't join the churches of your choices like the Faith Mission had done.
Jesus Christ is coming back for the bride/church/assembly of believers which he died for and left behind that He and the apostles started in the 1st century church. He is coming back to rapture His true bride to rule and reign with Him during the 1000 yrs on earth and NOT with the false ones/5 foolish virgins.
Nate - the difference you mention is fundamental. There is 180 degrees difference between one church saying that Jesus is part of the Godhead and another saying that Jesus was just a man who was helped by the HS to overcome - chalk and cheese. I accept (and you do as well) that there have always been people chosen by God on this earth in the 2000 years since Christ ascended. The problem is that the workers don’t - so you can write forever about the Vaudois/Waldenses but it won’t make one iota of difference to what the workers think. They believe that after the apostles died out that the “stump” (whatever the stump is...) lay dormant for nearly 1900 years until William came along and poured fertiliser on it and it sprouted again. All that sprouted was their own group based on their own righteousness. Christ or His righteousness are obviously not the stump, because Christ or His work in people have never been dormant! Most of the early days workers did NOT know about the history of the Vaudois, they just had the FAITH and belief that there has always been those like them who believe in Jesus New Testament Ministry and fellowship Prior to them. They didn't have the Internet or anyway to read the Vaudois history documents through the ages. ALL they knew God's Truth or Jesus WAY and Truth was on the earth in their own generation and they embraced with ALL of their hearts and minds in 1897-8 and They have passed it own to our days.
Jay Wicks, and myself heard about the Vaudois and Peter Waldo when I was in the work in 1989 from a church historian, who was given a lecture about them at the Library in our field. After that during our convention, one of the friends lend us a book, the Pilgrim Church by Broadbent.
The last 20 years, I have posted the history, doctrines, belief of the Vaudois from their own church historians, and others also, not just by Broadbent's source only.
This book was posted on line by someone on TMB 2010.
Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
Now, we have historical documents that Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship/churches did continue on for nearly 2000 years after his resurrection... whom God, Christ and Holy Spirit have gathered in the world as Jesus' bride and they still doing it today until the time of His returns to set up Eternal kingdom on earth.
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Post by snow on May 11, 2020 14:33:33 GMT -5
They believed in infant baptism, transubstantiation and were all Catholics that petitioned the Pope to preach which the Pope did not allow. They did change over the years, but they were never a direct link to the 'shores of Galilee' as the workers claim to be.
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Post by nathan on May 11, 2020 16:07:28 GMT -5
They believed in infant baptism, transubstantiation and were all Catholics that petitioned the Pope to preach which the Pope did not allow. They did change over the years, but they were never a direct link to the 'shores of Galilee' as the workers claim to be. ** The Vaudois historians claimed they were Paul's converts from Rome 66 A.D. in Rome. They were Catholics= Universal Christian but NOT Romans bishops/Pope Catholics in the 3rd century.
The Catholics, later became the Vaudois or Waldenses was chased out of Rome by the Romans bishops Catholics to the Alps and to many countries throughout Europe to this very day...
They had similar basic doctrines at first but it went different ways after the 4th century and they became enemies between the TWO factions/groups. Then in the 15th century many RCC monks, priests wanted a change/Reformation because of their false teachings and pagans belief within the Church... 40,000 plus Protestant denominations have started to this day.
Many Protestant denominations Christians believe they have left the RCC false system, but they are still in the grip of Satan's religious confusion maze, he is very clever.
The early days workers and the current workers want to point people to follow Jesus and the apostles New Testament ministry and fellowship. Most of 2x2 came from many came out of Protestants denominations and RCC and they don't want no part of the religious confusion mess of Satan has created the last 2000 yrs.
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