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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 11:32:48 GMT -5
that the “complacency effect” was probably responsible for reducing wealthier countries’ faith in vaccines, compared to underprivileged areas that have suffered from not having access to them. Seems reasonable to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 12:04:05 GMT -5
As I think I hear or read, this virus is a variation of the common cold. If so, there may be no vaccine or natural immunity that will last vary long. Not unlike the annual flu I suppose. That's sobering. We (my wife and I) will take the recommended precautions, but we have decided that if we get sick we will go to the hospital for the care or medicines we can't get or apply at home. But if it comes to (for example) having to put us in a medical comma to withstand the circumstances or treatment, we'll say put me in the comma or at least keep me comfortable, but let me go. Don't worry, I'm okay to go. No heroics needed. I've had a good life. It's the younger generation's turn to run the world. There are certainly some difficulties ahead for them.
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Post by snow on May 10, 2020 13:04:02 GMT -5
We drink milk and eat meat and dairy products, from animals that are fed hormones. Vegetables which are genetically modified. The alternative is to starve. The air we breathe is polluted but we still drive cars. Should you be selling that stuff called petrol Nathan, it's polluting our air. How many non Christian's would refuse the vaccine. There are a lot of people who don't believe in vaccines religious or otherwise. Some interesting studies about who and in what countries the antivaxers are . Not quite as simple as just pointing to our “preferred” group of people we are prejudiced against , and blaming them . Apparently , if one was prejudiced against women , you could even blame “gender” as being responsible for antivaxxers as there was a study that showed the leaders of antivax movement on Facebook were Primarily women . One study showed religious reasons as 19 percent responsible for antivaxers. Is there any religion out there that officially teaches against vaccinations , for whatever reason ? Alvin www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/who-are-the-anti-vaxxers/ampwww.google.ca/amp/s/www.markesweet thingch.com/amp/story/guid/7CBDE226-92A3-11E9-9D89-429213C87F49 The countries with the highest numbers of parents claiming not to vaccinate their children included China (9%), Austria (8%) and Japan (7%) On the flip side, Bangladesh was the most pro-vaccine, with almost 98% of people saying that inoculations are safe and effective, followed by Rwanda. Rwandans also trusted their healthcare system more than any other nation, with 97% giving a positive response, compared to the global average of 76%. that the “complacency effect” was probably responsible for reducing wealthier countries’ faith in vaccines, compared to underprivileged areas that have suffered from not having access to them. Caulfield believes anti-vaxxers come from a wide spectrum of income and education backgrounds. In 2015, the polling firm Mainstreet Research found that 39 per cent of Canadian anti-vaxxers had household incomes of more than $100,000, 38 per cent had a university degree and a full 66 per cent had some post-secondary education. According to the poll, 65 per cent cite health reasons for not vaccinating, and 19 per cent give religious reasons. Until Wally talked about the mark of the beast I had never related anti vaccine movements to be attached to religious beliefs. It started once autism seemed to be on the rise and vaccines were blamed for it. But all the studies show that it's not it. So I didn't know that it was more prevalent among theists.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 10, 2020 13:05:34 GMT -5
Some interesting studies about who and in what countries the antivaxers are . Not quite as simple as just pointing to our “preferred” group of people we are prejudiced against , and blaming them . Apparently , if one was prejudiced against women , you could even blame “gender” as being responsible for antivaxxers as there was a study that showed the leaders of antivax movement on Facebook were Primarily women . One study showed religious reasons as 19 percent responsible for antivaxers. Is there any religion out there that officially teaches against vaccinations , for whatever reason ? Alvin www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/who-are-the-anti-vaxxers/ampwww.google.ca/amp/s/www.markesweet thingch.com/amp/story/guid/7CBDE226-92A3-11E9-9D89-429213C87F49 The countries with the highest numbers of parents claiming not to vaccinate their children included China (9%), Austria (8%) and Japan (7%) On the flip side, Bangladesh was the most pro-vaccine, with almost 98% of people saying that inoculations are safe and effective, followed by Rwanda. Rwandans also trusted their healthcare system more than any other nation, with 97% giving a positive response, compared to the global average of 76%. that the “complacency effect” was probably responsible for reducing wealthier countries’ faith in vaccines, compared to underprivileged areas that have suffered from not having access to them. Caulfield believes anti-vaxxers come from a wide spectrum of income and education backgrounds. In 2015, the polling firm Mainstreet Research found that 39 per cent of Canadian anti-vaxxers had household incomes of more than $100,000, 38 per cent had a university degree and a full 66 per cent had some post-secondary education. According to the poll, 65 per cent cite health reasons for not vaccinating, and 19 per cent give religious reasons. Until Wally talked about the mark of the beast I had never related anti vaccine movements to be attached to religious beliefs. It started once autism seemed to be on the rise and vaccines were blamed for it. But all the studies show that it's not it. So I didn't know that it was more prevalent among theists. Theists find evidence of the beast in anything they don't like, it seems.
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Post by snow on May 10, 2020 13:07:11 GMT -5
As I think I hear or read, this virus is a variation of the common cold. If so, there may be no vaccine or natural immunity that will last vary long. Not unlike the annual flu I suppose. That's sobering. We (my wife and I) will take the recommended precautions, but we have decided that if we get sick we will go to the hospital for the care or medicines we can't get or apply at home. But if it comes to (for example) having to put us in a medical comma to withstand the circumstances or treatment, we'll say put me in the comma or at least keep me comfortable, but let me go. Don't worry, I'm okay to go. No heroics needed. I've had a good life. It's the younger generation's turn to run the world. There are certainly some difficulties ahead for them. I'm pretty much with you on that thought. Seeing as we can have the virus and already be suffering from lack of oxygen without knowing it, it probably makes sense that us older people get an oxygen/pulse reader to use at home. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0bIjF3BR6KF2y8RuA-XY82fie6QoSLSW16oZw_uy2o6J3HEVMA6nFBw5w
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Post by snow on May 10, 2020 13:08:17 GMT -5
Until Wally talked about the mark of the beast I had never related anti vaccine movements to be attached to religious beliefs. It started once autism seemed to be on the rise and vaccines were blamed for it. But all the studies show that it's not it. So I didn't know that it was more prevalent among theists. Theists find evidence of the beast in anything they don't like, it seems. Apparently. It sure surprised me, but I should know better by now...
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Post by nathan on May 10, 2020 13:52:20 GMT -5
Blaming the technology would be a very "worker-like" reaction. First it was radios. Then televisions. Then the Internet. Now Youtube. But where do the ideas originate? What happens when the "holy" books are the most destructive to humanity? Misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and unbelief through the centuries of what the holy books meant that caused the most destruction, chaos, and 40,000 plus churches denominations, religious wars for almost 2000 yrs among mankind. The Holy book is good for mankind and it leads them Salvation and eternal life by Jesus Christ.
Jesus said I have come that ye might have eternal life and have it more abundantly. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Jesus has made it very simple; He is the Truth, the Way to eternal life. He is the door to the Father. There is no confusion or chaos when people follow Jesus teachings.
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Post by slowtosee on May 10, 2020 14:06:22 GMT -5
Some interesting studies about who and in what countries the antivaxers are . Not quite as simple as just pointing to our “preferred” group of people we are prejudiced against , and blaming them . Apparently , if one was prejudiced against women , you could even blame “gender” as being responsible for antivaxxers as there was a study that showed the leaders of antivax movement on Facebook were Primarily women . One study showed religious reasons as 19 percent responsible for antivaxers. Is there any religion out there that officially teaches against vaccinations , for whatever reason ? Alvin www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/who-are-the-anti-vaxxers/ampwww.google.ca/amp/s/www.markesweet thingch.com/amp/story/guid/7CBDE226-92A3-11E9-9D89-429213C87F49 The countries with the highest numbers of parents claiming not to vaccinate their children included China (9%), Austria (8%) and Japan (7%) On the flip side, Bangladesh was the most pro-vaccine, with almost 98% of people saying that inoculations are safe and effective, followed by Rwanda. Rwandans also trusted their healthcare system more than any other nation, with 97% giving a positive response, compared to the global average of 76%. that the “complacency effect” was probably responsible for reducing wealthier countries’ faith in vaccines, compared to underprivileged areas that have suffered from not having access to them. Caulfield believes anti-vaxxers come from a wide spectrum of income and education backgrounds. In 2015, the polling firm Mainstreet Research found that 39 per cent of Canadian anti-vaxxers had household incomes of more than $100,000, 38 per cent had a university degree and a full 66 per cent had some post-secondary education. According to the poll, 65 per cent cite health reasons for not vaccinating, and 19 per cent give religious reasons. Until Wally talked about the mark of the beast I had never related anti vaccine movements to be attached to religious beliefs. It started once autism seemed to be on the rise and vaccines were blamed for it. But all the studies show that it's not it. So I didn't know that it was more prevalent among theists. I think there might be a connection , alright ? But I had not heard that a vaccine could somehow Be a “mark of the beast “ either . Wow. We’re all doomed as we had polio shots etc. Oh , for the good old days of polio NOT NOT NOT Hmmmmmmmmm. Now I wonder are you the wicked man in Job or am I? Alvin Edit - I often write too hastily . The wicked man in job comment was just joking off the cuff nonsense . It came to mind from a true episode that a worker shared with us . He and his companion were visiting a professing man , QUiTE unique character , who was convinced that he was the wicked man in Job ( whoever that was ? ). Carefully and methodically the worker pointed out why it was impossible fir him to be the wicked man in job . Quite sure that the “problem “ thinking had been resolved and that the matter was settled , he was surprised when after a short “ intermission “.the man turned to his companion , and asked “ do do do do do you you you you think I’m the wicked man in job ? “ The worker smilingly shared why on other visits , they would just join the fellow in listening together with him to his country music lp ‘s . So it goes . Interesting characters . His son would draw a few smiles also, when invariably during a gospel meeting he had to use the washroom , and with the exit at the front of the meeting place , he would zoom in and out , with arms outstretched and flopping up and down - Pretending he was an airplane. Good old days lol
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Post by Grant on May 10, 2020 15:16:01 GMT -5
Misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and unbelief through the centuries of what the holy books meant that caused the most destruction, chaos, and 40,000 plus churches denominations, religious wars for almost 2000 yrs among mankind. The Holy book is good for mankind and it leads them Salvation and eternal life by Jesus Christ.
Jesus said I have come that ye might have eternal life and have it more abundantly. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Jesus has made it very simple; He is the Truth, the Way to eternal life. He is the door to the Father. There is no confusion or chaos when people follow Jesus teachings. So the workers go and add another one to the 40,000 that are already there, or was it only 20,000 back in 1897 or so.
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Post by nathan on May 10, 2020 19:59:14 GMT -5
So the workers go and add another one to the 40,000 that are already there, or was it only 20,000 back in 1897 or so. The 2x2 workers didn't ADD anything NEW into the 20,000 plus pot of Christianity denominations confusion. They tried to tell people to FOLLOW Jesus and the apostles original New Testament ministry and church recipe. Most of the workers and the friends were part of the 20,000 plus denominations confusion back then and they didn't want to return to the churches they came out of.
It was from 20,000 denominations or so in 1897 but in 2019 it has grew to 40,000 plus and it keeps on growing...
~~ August, 1954: Testimony of an ex-2x2 Ida West from North Ireland
An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.
They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others.
The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly.
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Post by chuck on May 18, 2020 4:40:13 GMT -5
Whats to connection between the "mark" and "covid-19 vaccine"?. If someone, a Christian for example, wanted to make such a connection, it could easily (and probably is already being) done. The marker would be the antibodies created by the unnatural, man made, therefor worldly vaccine. Examples of religious types refusing "unnatural" helps is wide and deep, and where that line is varies by individual. What you are describing is not the idea of what Christianity meant to the people taking or refusing the mark in the Domitian era to trade in the Agora. I may not be exactly right but Christians drawing parralels with vaccines and the mark of the beast need to read some history. Western Christians especially have a particulary hard time understanding this as we are presently living under the protection of super powers like the roman empire. The Christians in these bible days were not under the protection of the roman empire, they were under the boot of the roman empire. We really can hardly relate at all.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on May 21, 2020 2:03:06 GMT -5
Theists find evidence of the beast in anything they don't like, it seems. Apparently. It sure surprised me, but I should know better by now...
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Post by shushy on May 21, 2020 2:09:39 GMT -5
Have any of you listened to professional virologists on the topic of vaccines?
I wont be taking the vaccine. evidence of the beast by that you mean the mark of the beast I presume. Christians are warned about it in revelations. They have already created a device to implant under the skin, which will trace your movements as well as be used to trade. I will try to send the link of the patent later.
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Post by shushy on May 21, 2020 2:26:24 GMT -5
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Post by shushy on May 21, 2020 2:26:51 GMT -5
it worked
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Post by matisse on May 21, 2020 6:45:38 GMT -5
This is just a link to your facebook page, shushy.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 21, 2020 14:44:50 GMT -5
This is just a link to your facebook page, shushy. Yes. I also went to your link as well and it was a your facebook page and not about any virologists so didn't enter it as I am wary of facebook and don't trust it as a general rule.
What is it that virologists say about vaccines that makes you not want to take them, shushy?
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Post by fixit on May 21, 2020 16:33:48 GMT -5
Have any of you listened to professional virologists on the topic of vaccines? I wont be taking the vaccine. evidence of the beast by that you mean the mark of the beast I presume. Christians are warned about it in revelations. They have already created a device to implant under the skin, which will trace your movements as well as be used to trade. I will try to send the link of the patent later. Smallpox was eradicated with vaccination. Does anyone wish that had not been so?
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Post by fixit on May 21, 2020 17:49:52 GMT -5
Many Christians used to consider a disease to be an act of God or Satan.
I presume most Christians today accept that viral and bacterial disease is a part of nature and is caused by microorganisms.
Hopefully, growing numbers of Christians will accept that antibiotics and vaccines are tools that modern medicine uses to keep us healthy, backed up by evidence-based science.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 21, 2020 19:07:13 GMT -5
Have any of you listened to professional virologists on the topic of vaccines? I wont be taking the vaccine. evidence of the beast by that you mean the mark of the beast I presume. Christians are warned about it in revelations. They have already created a device to implant under the skin, which will trace your movements as well as be used to trade. I will try to send the link of the patent later. Smallpox was eradicated with vaccination. Does anyone wish that had not been so? I come from a family with a background in medicine, and well recall the the "around the table" discussions about Polio, German Measles, Smallpox etc, and also seeing people of the same generation who suffered from Polio, and struggled to walk with wasted muscles, one leg shorter than the other etc. I recall people of my own generation that were born deaf because of a mother who suffered the Measles during pregnancy.
I had to have injections for years to build up an immunity against something that would kill me.
It is only people that lack a worldview, and also an understanding of the chemistry at play that would ascribe things to anything else but science.
I sat next to an anti-vaxxer on a plane trip last year, and by the end of the trip I was convinced that she was completely nuts. It seemed to go hand in hand with her "anti-fluoridation of water", pro Pot Smoking, and Vegan beliefs. No wonder she had her own personal counsellor. Her brain was lacking what a good steak would provide! (I joke, by the way)
While anti-vaxxers have a right to their beliefs, from a societal point of view it is selfish.
We saw what happened when some spread Measles in Samoa.
It was also intriguing when the NRL in Australia made Flu vaccinations compulsory for players. Some of the anti-vaxxers showed that their beliefs were only as strong as the contract values. Their beliefs changed when the possibility of a lucrative contract being torn up was mooted.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 20:13:49 GMT -5
Many Christians used to consider a disease to be an act of God or Satan. I presume most Christians today accept that viral and bacterial disease is a part of nature and is caused by microorganisms. Hopefully, growing numbers of Christians will accept that antibiotics and vaccines are tools that modern medicine uses to keep us healthy, backed up by evidence-based science. God can use anything in nature(that he made BTW) to make his point perfectly clear and satan can corrupt nature to do as he pleases...oh ye of little faith
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Post by openingact34 on May 21, 2020 21:24:28 GMT -5
Have any of you listened to professional virologists on the topic of vaccines? I wont be taking the vaccine. evidence of the beast by that you mean the mark of the beast I presume. Christians are warned about it in revelations. They have already created a device to implant under the skin, which will trace your movements as well as be used to trade. I will try to send the link of the patent later. Smallpox was eradicated with vaccination. Does anyone wish that had not been so? Smallpox was gone before my generation, so I've never heard it discussed much at all outside the classroom. However, as far as deadly viruses go, I've heard HIV celebrated and God praised for AIDS by many bellevers... both professing and not.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 21, 2020 21:30:42 GMT -5
Many Christians used to consider a disease to be an act of God or Satan. I presume most Christians today accept that viral and bacterial disease is a part of nature and is caused by microorganisms. Hopefully, growing numbers of Christians will accept that antibiotics and vaccines are tools that modern medicine uses to keep us healthy, backed up by evidence-based science. God can use anything in nature(that he made BTW) to make his point perfectly clear and satan can corrupt nature to do as he pleases...oh ye of little faith You miss the point. We know that.
Fixit is referring to those who ascribed such things to Demons, or being punished by God, when in fact it was simply science that was not understood and could be medicated in the future. Eg; epilepsy
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 21:34:39 GMT -5
God can use anything in nature(that he made BTW) to make his point perfectly clear and satan can corrupt nature to do as he pleases...oh ye of little faith You miss the point. We know that.
Fixit is referring to those who ascribed such things to Demons, or being punished by God, when in fact it was simply science that was not understood and could be medicated in the future. Eg; epilepsy
what, do you think that satan and his devils are asleep? or have faded away? or just gave up?
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Post by Pragmatic on May 21, 2020 21:52:12 GMT -5
Again, you miss the point entirely, or simply just want to argue, because it is you forte. I never suggested what you are implying.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 22:14:30 GMT -5
Again, you miss the point entirely, or simply just want to argue, because it is you forte. I never suggested what you are implying. oh i get the point its called unbelief...
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Post by matisse on May 21, 2020 22:18:32 GMT -5
Again, you miss the point entirely, or simply just want to argue, because it is you forte. I never suggested what you are implying. Although arguing is something wally does often, I wouldn't call it his forte.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 21, 2020 22:21:57 GMT -5
Smallpox was eradicated with vaccination. Does anyone wish that had not been so? Smallpox was gone before my generation, so I've never heard it discussed much at all outside the classroom. However, as far as deadly viruses go, I've heard HIV celebrated and God praised for AIDS by many bellevers... both professing and not. Smallpox was gone before my generation as well. However, I did see the results of smallpox.
One of the Public Health nurses was our teacher in nurses training and had smallpox during her childhood. She had many deep pits in her face that was the results of smallpox.
They were so many and so deep, -it caused me to wonder at that time why they called it "small"pox!
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