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Post by openingact34 on Mar 3, 2020 21:25:44 GMT -5
Within the Truth, the workers carefully follow the instructions of Jesus in Matthew 10 to preach the gospel.
But what about the words of the risen Christ in Mark 16? "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
Check out this AMAZING short documentary of people who actually DO follow the Bible. (2 parts, less than 30 min total) One of the best things I've watched in the last year. These people have incredible faith.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 21:51:19 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?)
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Post by nathan on Mar 3, 2020 21:53:50 GMT -5
Enuf believes those verses apply for today! So the workers are NOT following the Bible. Then I point out to enuf it was BELIEVERS! Who were able to do that NOT just the workets, it was including her and all believers. So, I asked Enuf to try handle the poisonous snake and drink poison because Mark 16 said it would NOT harm her/him one bite! Enuf declined! I wonder why? Didnt she/he have the faith to believe in God's words.
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Post by snow on Mar 3, 2020 21:54:51 GMT -5
These kinds of things really sadden me. So much danger when people believe these things and don't use reason.
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Post by nathan on Mar 3, 2020 21:59:34 GMT -5
These kinds of things really sadden me. So much danger when people believe these things and don't use reason. The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years.
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Post by matisse on Mar 3, 2020 22:02:32 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?) In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this?
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Post by openingact34 on Mar 3, 2020 22:06:15 GMT -5
These kinds of things really sadden me. So much danger when people believe these things and don't use reason. The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years. Kind of like how only the gospel of John added the lies about Jesus being God?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 22:06:37 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?) In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this? a cessationist believes that Jesus spoke those things to specific people and for a specific time, just like we know the OT applies only to jews and the NT applies to just christians without there being a specific verse saying so...
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Post by matisse on Mar 3, 2020 22:11:23 GMT -5
In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this? a cessationist believes that Jesus spoke those things to specific people and for a specific time, just like we know the OT applies only to jews and the NT applies to just christians without there being a specific verse saying so... So you have added to the Word.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 22:14:23 GMT -5
a cessationist believes that Jesus spoke those things to specific people and for a specific time, just like we know the OT applies only to jews and the NT applies to just christians without there being a specific verse saying so... So you have added to the Word. i don't think revelation/understanding is adding to the word...
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Post by believingjesus on Mar 3, 2020 22:17:42 GMT -5
These kinds of things really sadden me. So much danger when people believe these things and don't use reason. The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years. Nathan actually said something correct for once. It is true that these verses do not appear in the earliest manuscripts. It is also true of the story of the woman accused of adultery, which is sort of a shame because it’s a story religious (as well as non-religious) people would do well to learn from. Unfortunately, because it does not appear in the earliest manuscripts, some Christians feel free to dismiss the lesson that can be learned from it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 3, 2020 22:19:05 GMT -5
In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this? a cessationist believes that Jesus spoke those things to specific people and for a specific time, just like we know the OT applies only to jews and the NT applies to just christians without there being a specific verse saying so...
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 3, 2020 22:20:42 GMT -5
So you have added to the Word. i don't think revelation/understanding is adding to the word... Considering what I've heard of revelation, I'm convinced it has to be "adding to the word".
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Post by nathan on Mar 3, 2020 22:29:50 GMT -5
The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years. Kind of like how only the gospel of John added the lies about Jesus being God? ** Nope, John the apostle did NOT lie about Jesus being God Almighty... He saw Christ's God form on MT. Transfiguration and in 95 A.D. on the island of Patmos. It just the atheists and unbelievers who don't KNOW and UNDERSTAND what John had seen called him a liar. John was TELLING THE TRUTH that Jesus is the Christ God, the second Person of the Godhead of the TRIUNE God.
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Post by matisse on Mar 3, 2020 22:34:01 GMT -5
So you have added to the Word. i don't think revelation/understanding is adding to the word... I disagree, though I understand why it is important to Christians to justify in their own minds why they cannot perform even one verifiable miracle.
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Post by openingact34 on Mar 3, 2020 23:06:12 GMT -5
Enuf believes those verses apply for today! So the workers are NOT following the Bible. Then I point out to enuf it was BELIEVERS! Who were able to do that NOT just the workets, it was including her and all believers. So, I asked Enuf to try handle the poisonous snake and drink poison because Mark 16 said it would NOT harm her/him one bite! Enuf declined! I wonder why? Didnt she/he have the faith to believe in God's words. Yes, sounds like a pretty weak faith for sure. Even another pastor's pregnant wife handles poisonous snakes
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Post by Dan on Mar 4, 2020 0:47:00 GMT -5
Some nuts don't understand that those verses in Mark were assigned to Apostolic authority, so they literally tempt fate by assuming these gifts are applicable to them. Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake in Acts 28:3-6 and suffered no effect, so the verses are true. But the clowns in the video aren't immune to poison, just as they aren't authorized to heal the sick.
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Post by nathan on Mar 4, 2020 1:30:31 GMT -5
Some nuts don't understand that those verses in Mark were assigned to Apostolic authority, so they literally tempt fate by assuming these gifts are applicable to them. Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake in Acts 28:3-6 and suffered no effect, so the verses are true. But the clowns in the video aren't immune to poison, just as they aren't authorized to heal the sick. Amen, Dan. That is what I try to tell the nuts who believe those verses in Mark apply for today! I asked them why, don't you try to drink the poison and see what happens? or let the poisonous snake bites you and see how strong your faith is... NO TAKER! what kind of a believer is that. Believing in words ONLY but no act to back it up?
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Post by jetmech on Mar 4, 2020 3:38:51 GMT -5
These kinds of things really sadden me. So much danger when people believe these things and don't use reason. The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years. That's what I was thinking too Nathan. If Enuf thinks the workers should handle snakes it's like ... man, jump on in there and show us how it's done; but, spare me ... I sure don't wanna watch! Exactly what does it mean in the Bible where it tells us not to put GOD to the test? What about GIDEON and his fleece story? Wasn't he testing GOD?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 4, 2020 4:06:04 GMT -5
The other 3 gospels DO NOT have those verses in Mark 16. It was added by some scribes and it has killed quite a few believers and pastors through the years. Kind of like how only the gospel of John added the lies about Jesus being God? Right, -it thought by some that John 21 is an addition and John 20 was really the last chapter. Mostly I think, because of the change in the way that John tended to write. That it didn't quite sound like his previous writing.
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Post by mountain on Mar 4, 2020 4:21:47 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?) In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this? These things were signs for the Jews who sought a sign. The Gentiles/Greeks sought knowledge. The signs continued after Christ during the lifespan of the first disciples because a transitional period existed mainly for the Jews who still followed OT practices. The word was in many cases insufficient to change their old beliefs. They needed a bit of prompting. The Gentiles sought knowledge. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost onwards became the 'sign' which many Jews accepted. (Virgs)
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Post by matisse on Mar 4, 2020 6:36:29 GMT -5
In what verse(s) did Jesus articulate this? These things were signs for the Jews who sought a sign. The Gentiles/Greeks sought knowledge. The signs continued after Christ during the lifespan of the first disciples because a transitional period existed mainly for the Jews who still followed OT practices. The word was in many cases insufficient to change their old beliefs. They needed a bit of prompting. The Gentiles sought knowledge. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost onwards became the 'sign' which many Jews accepted. (Virgs) The same folks who demand Bible verses on other matters are willing to accept an extra-Biblical retrofit on this one.
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Post by blacksheep on Mar 4, 2020 6:45:53 GMT -5
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Post by mountain on Mar 4, 2020 8:23:27 GMT -5
These things were signs for the Jews who sought a sign. The Gentiles/Greeks sought knowledge. The signs continued after Christ during the lifespan of the first disciples because a transitional period existed mainly for the Jews who still followed OT practices. The word was in many cases insufficient to change their old beliefs. They needed a bit of prompting. The Gentiles sought knowledge. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost onwards became the 'sign' which many Jews accepted. (Virgs) The same folks who demand Bible verses on other matters are willing to accept an extra-Biblical retrofit on this one. It could also be argued that the relevant (added?) passages in Mark's gospel were actually true at the time it was written, i.e. within the lifespan of the first disciples. The first disciples may not have known when the power to work miracles/heal the sick etc., was going to disappear, or even if indeed it was to. What is abundantly clear is that the disciples were commissioned to preach the word of God which has the power to save people through faith for all eternity. This was the greater work that Jesus conferred on his true followers, way above the natural miracles which only had a temporal benefit. Certainly the miracles supporting the gospel message were never intended to continue sine die. Jesus made that perfectly clear when he said: Matthew 16.4 “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.”
The Jews were indeed that wicked and evil generation because they slew their very saviour and Messiah. They were even denying the signs proving the gospel message at that time. The last (foretold) sign that would be given was the death and resurrection of Jesus. This became part of the Gospel preached by the eye witnesses to Christ's death. Had the disciples/eye witnesses to the death and resurrection, had their powers to work miracles taken away from them at that time, the gospel message as far as the Jews were concerned, would have fallen flat. God wants us to take him at his 'word.' He wants us to trust him. The miracles that Jesus and his immediate representatives worked, were a necessity at that time to prove to the Jews that Jesus was who he claimed to be, i.e. their long awaited Messiah. If the Jews would have taken Jesus at his/God's word there would have been no need for the miracles, but even with the miracles, proving his very words they still rejected him. They knew full well that Jesus had been sent by God, but like many of the prophets before him, they rejected him because of their evil and wicked hearts. John 3.1 3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. The members of the Sanhedrin condemned themselves by recognising that Jesus had been sent from God.The miracles that Jesus worked were undeniable proof that Jesus was whom he claimed to be, but these guys just didn't want to believe and accept it. No sign would have been good enough to get them to change their ways. That is what God is up against in dealing with the human race. It is his 'word' that is important, not the miracles. Look at what Jesus said to Thomas after his resurrection? John 20: 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Thomas would not believe in the risen Christ unless he saw a sign to prove it. He done himself out of a blessing. Notice how Jesus places firmly the importance of believing in him without seeing (signs)! That's where the true blessings lie, NOT in desiring signs. The just shall live by faith, NOT sight (signs). If people sought the vision of Virgs, we would not be having these type of discussions. It is clear that we are to seek the word of God. Are you part of a wicked generation that seeks a sign? There are plenty of people filling that boat! (Virgs)
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Post by openingact34 on Mar 4, 2020 8:26:37 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?) This is the same argument that the exes and worldlings use to attack the homeless 2x2 ministry, claiming that it was only temporary instructions for a short time. If Jesus was all he was cracked up to be, don't you think he would have been smart enough to add an expiration date to his temporary instructions? Instead, you are quoting a man-made doctrine that you can't even spell that developed 16 centuries after Christ.
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Post by mountain on Mar 4, 2020 8:56:16 GMT -5
that was given for a time and people of the 1st century...it all ended when the last of them died, probably John the Apostle....that belief is called cessationist(sp?) This is the same argument that the exes and worldlings use to attack the homeless 2x2 ministry, claiming that it was only temporary instructions for a short time. If Jesus was all he was cracked up to be, don't you think he would have been smart enough to add an expiration date to his temporary instructions? Instead, you are quoting a man-made doctrine that you can't even spell that developed 16 centuries after Christ. Well here Jesus certainly brings a halt to signs regarding his Messiahship. The change from the OT law which was for the Jews to the age of grace for the Christian church was not an immediate circumstance but required a transitional period, perhaps due to the more primitave nature of the era. Paul may well have been chosen to deal with this as he often had to deal with issues between believing Jews and believing Gentiles. A kind of running down period for the Jews if you like. Bear in mind communications were slow back then. Matthew 16.4 “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.”
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Post by nathan on Mar 4, 2020 9:41:25 GMT -5
This is the same argument that the exes and worldlings use to attack the homeless 2x2 ministry, claiming that it was only temporary instructions for a short time. If Jesus was all he was cracked up to be, don't you think he would have been smart enough to add an expiration date to his temporary instructions? Instead, you are quoting a man-made doctrine that you can't even spell that developed 16 centuries after Christ. Well here Jesus certainly brings a halt to signs regarding his Messiahship. The change from the OT law which was for the Jews to the age of grace for the Christian church was not an immediate circumstance but required a transitional period, perhaps due to the more primitave nature of the era. Paul may well have been chosen to deal with this as he often had to deal with issues between believing Jews and believing Gentiles. A kind of running down period for the Jews if you like. Bear in mind communications were slow back then. Matthew 16.4 “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.” Amen. Jesus and the Bible tells us Satan will give his religious followers/false preachers, pastors with powers, to show signs, miracles, healing to deceive people on earth thinking worshipping him as God. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. M any will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Paul wrote in II Thess 2: 1-12 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Post by snow on Mar 4, 2020 13:20:24 GMT -5
So you have added to the Word. i don't think revelation/understanding is adding to the word... I think it does mean just that. If the bible doesn't say it you are told not to add to the bible. So revelation that says something different from the bible would be exactly that wouldn't it?
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