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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 11:48:18 GMT -5
You can't accept everything in the Gospel as gospel. Please note the play on words...Nice trick, but nontheless; "You can't accept everything in the Gospel as gospel." And what seems to be parallel in meaning with your useage of the word "gospel" in this dribble, some workers have stated that "everything a worker says is gospel." Are you sure you don't have a 2x2 hangover?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 11:56:46 GMT -5
From the research I have done so far on the very muddied 'waters' surrounding Kent Hovind and the legal system, Kent, as shown in his videos STRONGLY opposed paying taxes for public schools to teach everyone's kids ONLY evolution. It is not very clear in what records I found whether Kent actually went overboard in his opposition to paying teachers to teach kids the secular religion to the exclusion of all others. But there is little question that he did speak out loudly against funding the secular religion on taxpayer's backs. For me, the controversy surrounding Kent makes it impossible to in good conscience post links to any of his videos - but the copies of my former postings of two of them remain outside of my control to the time of this edit. And one of those copies is perhaps his strongest opposition to that secular religion on the basis of its dangers to humanity - that copy in particular I would have wiped off this board if I could based solely on the controversy. Gratu, your research must have been very narrow as well as biased if you think it was because of Hovind's being "opposed paying taxes for public schools to teach everyone's kids ONLY evolution!"
The IRS does NOT charge people with tax fraud just because of their beliefs!
We aren't that kind of "a totalitarian regime" YET! I followed Kent Hovind during this time because, -as I stated, -his mother was my daughter's kindergarten teacher.
I had also heard his "discussions." I knew how he certainly DID make a lot of money which he denied making! Evangelist Hovind was found guilty for tax fraud! -not his beliefs!
Evangelist Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, was found guilty on all counts of tax fraud concerning merchandise and amusement park admission sales.
The trial began at United States District Court for the Northern District of Florida on Tuesday October 18, 2006, and prosecutors rested their case against Hovind on November 1.
Defense lawyers rested their case on the same day without presenting evidence or calling witnesses; Hovind claims that he runs a church, and thus should not have to pay taxes, while prosecutors claimed that he was actually running a business.
Pensacola tax trial
Hovind is a Young Earth creationist who earns income for speaking, selling merchandise (videos), and runs a amusement park that asserts humans and dinosaurs lived together.
His talks and videos give a pro-creationism perspective, which he receives income for Hovind, who calls himself "Dr. Dino", received a Ph.D in "Christian education" from the unaccredited correspondence school Patriot Bible University in 1991.
Hovind faces a maximum of 288 years in prison while his wife faces up to 225 years. The charges against his wife are "aiding and abetting her husband with 44 counts of evading bank-reporting requirements."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Michelle Heldmyer said Dinosaur Adventure Land, a theme park, "grew and grew and grew," grossing as much as $2 million a year.
Whereas Hovind was paid in cash for his speeches, and then got cash for mechandise he sold at his lectures,
Jo "was handling the money."
This includes, as the Pensacola News Journal noted, "on Dec. 20, 1999, she cashed a check from the Creation Science Evangelism account for $7,500 at 1:15 p.m. She returned at 2:50 p.m. to cash another check from the same account for $7,500."
Also "On the day the IRS searched the Hovind home, Kent Hovind withdrew $70,000 from the Creation Science Evangelism account. Half in a check; the other in cash."
Hovind's defense had insisted that experts assured him he was right, but "he sought out only the people who agreed with him, not the people who knew better," Heldmyer said.
Mark O'Brien of the Pensacola News Journal wrote, "The saddest thing: Had they cooperated with the agents, they probably wouldn't be worrying about prison sentences now."
Evangelist Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, was found guilty on all counts of tax fraud concerning merchandise and amusement park admission sales.
The trial began at United States District Court for the Northern District of Florida on Tuesday October 18, 2006, and prosecutors rested their case against Hovind on November 1.
Defense lawyers rested their case on the same day without presenting evidence or calling witnesses; Hovind claims that he runs a church, and thus should not have to pay taxes, while prosecutors claimed that he was actually running a business.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 12:28:37 GMT -5
"I knew how he certainly DID make a lot of money which he denied making! "
According to the information I found, as muddied as it all is thus far, Kent did not deny he had lots of money coming in. Just like the workers have done for over a century, he believed the money was God's money not his. But again, I must point out that the information I found while try to investigate is as clear as a mud puddle. But I can say this, if Hovind believed the income was God's and the IRS put him in jail for it, the IRS is really slow to treat workers by the same rules, and they cannot say they do not know about the workers financial pyrimid (in God's name) by now.
By the way, it is good to see YOUR copy still linking The dangers of evolution - it looks good ON YOU.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2019 12:38:13 GMT -5
Self defense would be killing the warriors that were attacking them. Killing women, children and animals, everything but the female virgins, is not self defense. It's genocide that is particularly disgusting in that they had to make sure the girls were virgins. There was only one way to make sure a female was a virgin. We argued about this. No you didn't have to play doctor or rape them. What did you need to do Lee? How could you make sure a female was a virgin back then. And, why kill everything else but them? That isn't self defense as the post I was answering stated.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2019 12:40:58 GMT -5
Why do theists always want to reduce everything to the level of religion? What is the point of calling anything that isn't religion, religion? Theists have a religion and believe in Gods. That is the definition.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 13:32:35 GMT -5
"I knew how he certainly DID make a lot of money which he denied making! " According to the information I found, as muddied as it all is thus far, Kent did not deny he had lots of money coming in. Just like the workers have done for over a century, he believed the money was God's money not his. But again, I must point out that the information I found while try to investigate is as clear as a mud puddle. But I can say this, if Hovind believed the income was God's and the IRS put him in jail for it, the IRS is really slow to treat workers by the same rules, and they cannot say they do not know about the workers financial pyrimid (in God's name) by now. By the way, it is good to see YOUR copy still linking The dangers of evolution - it looks good ON YOU. Of course Hovind denied making a lot of money! It may have been "god's" money, but it was Hovind and his wife who spent it!
"In 2008, Eric Hovind and Glen Stoll, an individual who has been associated with the Embassy of Heaven organization and who has falsely claimed to be a lawyer, attempted to prevent the forfeitures of Hovind's ten properties, including Dinosaur Adventure Land, in connection with the federal tax problems."
I pay my property taxes and my income taxes and I don't have TEN (10) properties! Do you have that many properties, Gratu?
Are you able to make any post without bringing the workers into the discussion?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 13:45:09 GMT -5
Why do theists always want to reduce everything to the level of religion? What is the point of calling anything that isn't religion, religion? Theists have a religion and believe in Gods. That is the definition. That is because they can't acknowledge that religions are beliefs based only on faith.
Other subjects like science are based on facts but they can't acknowledge that and therefore they try to bring science down to their level.
As much as they actually benefit from science in their everyday life they still cannot acknowledge it. They need the comfort of a belief even when it is counter to facts, just because it makes them feel better.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2019 14:31:20 GMT -5
Why do theists always want to reduce everything to the level of religion? What is the point of calling anything that isn't religion, religion? Theists have a religion and believe in Gods. That is the definition. That is because they can't acknowledge that religions are beliefs based only on faith.
Other subjects like science are based on facts but they can't acknowledge that and therefore they try to bring science down to their level.
As much as they actually benefit from science in their everyday life they still cannot acknowledge it. They need the comfort of a belief even when it is counter to facts, just because it makes them feel better. To me it seems dishonest and hypocritical. They use the benefits of science and then say it's wrong. In this day and age there is no excuse to not have at least basic knowledge of how the natural world works, unless they have a learning disability. To deny that our knowledge of how evolution works doesn't benefit them in many ways, seems bizarre to me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 15:02:43 GMT -5
You can't accept everything in the Gospel as gospel. Please note the play on words...Nice trick, but nontheless; "You can't accept everything in the Gospel as gospel."
And what seems to be parallel in meaning with your useage of the word "gospel" in this dribble, some workers have stated that "everything a worker says is gospel." Are you sure you don't have a 2x2 hangover? No trick, gratu.
One definition of the word "gospel" is: : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine.
So the post was quite accurate in the way word was used.
I am sorry to see that you are so stuck in the mire in your feelings about workers and the 2x2's. It must be a terrible burden to carry.
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Post by intelchips on Sept 10, 2019 15:14:12 GMT -5
Nice trick, but nontheless; "You can't accept everything in the Gospel as gospel."
And what seems to be parallel in meaning with your useage of the word "gospel" in this dribble, some workers have stated that "everything a worker says is gospel." Are you sure you don't have a 2x2 hangover? No trick, gratu.
One definition of the word "gospel" is: : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine.
So the post was quite accurate in the way word was used.
I am sorry to see that you are so stuck in the mire in your feelings about workers and the 2x2's. It must be a terrible burden to carry.
Why do believers use the gospel like a cricket bat to smack pagans over the head?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 15:30:03 GMT -5
"It may have been "god's" money, but it was Hovind and his wife who spent it!"
And "it may be God's money, but it" is 2x2 overseers who spend it. Yet this has been the case with 2x2ism for over 100 years and the IRS has as yet allowed them to continue untouched by the IRS.
WHY? - I think the only difference is that Hovind dared to publicly expose the secular religion being taught in public schools as a secular religion. And that is certainly not the only case in which the IRS has gone after certain individual people using legal action and taxation as a tool of punishment. And according to my understanding from the foggy records, Hovind had or has a prison ministry I believe was started when the authorities put him in prison. Maybe that is why they released him early - i.e., for the punished to be punished the punished must feel punished. I think Hovind just preached his Biblical messages wherever God allowed him to be located at any time.
But I was unable to find current clear information regarding Hovind today, other than the organization that he founded still has a website. But I have investigated in the mud puddle long enough to decide that the controversy alone has destroyed the effectiveness of Hovind's ministries regardless of whether he was right or wrong in those ministries.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 15:46:00 GMT -5
"No trick, gratu."
rational knows what I am talking about using the word "trick" whether his assistants know the trick he pulled again in that post or not. His bag of tricks seems to be empty, so he just repeats them now and then to see if I will notice - I think.
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Post by rational on Sept 10, 2019 15:56:09 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Sept 10, 2019 16:03:36 GMT -5
"No trick, gratu." rational knows what I am talking about using the word "trick" whether his assistants know the trick he pulled again in that post or not. His bag of tricks seems to be empty, so he just repeats them now and then to see if I will notice - I think.So far this claim has seen little to no support.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 16:11:32 GMT -5
AHH - no tricks this time so I can full quote it without copying the tricks. And I full quote it just to say thank you for more heads-up on messengers whose messages seem both Biblical and accurate to me. And to answer your question, I find the people whose messages I post on here very much like I find churches that teach the Bible - by reading or watching their online messages and comparing their messages with Scripture. but I'll not bother using the technical term for the procedure because it may well be a foiegn language to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 16:18:11 GMT -5
"No trick, gratu." rational knows what I am talking about using the word "trick" whether his assistants know the trick he pulled again in that post or not. His bag of tricks seems to be empty, so he just repeats them now and then to see if I will notice - I think.So far this claim has seen little to no support. Ahh - a second post in a row with no tricks in it - so I can full quote it too -- just to say, I don't need any support from here or anywhere else on this earth to know that "I think."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 17:22:54 GMT -5
"Are you able to make any post without bringing the workers into the discussion?"
Nope - I learned soon after registry on this board that even while my thread titles contained "2x2", they were tossed into the private Admin "freak's" bin supposedly on the grounds that they did not pertain to 2x2ism as this board requires.
Do YOU ever even mention 2x2s within any of your posts?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 10, 2019 18:08:27 GMT -5
No trick, gratu.
One definition of the word "gospel" is: : something accepted or promoted as infallible truth or as a guiding principle or doctrine.
So the post was quite accurate in the way word was used.
I am sorry to see that you are so stuck in the mire in your feelings about workers and the 2x2's. It must be a terrible burden to carry.
Why do believers use the gospel like a cricket bat to smack pagans over the head? Wet noodles are legal.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 18:27:07 GMT -5
The Religion of Evolution by Gary Demar on September 30, 2002 answersingenesis.org/public-school/religion-in-schools/the-religion-of-evolution/Gratu; About the author of your post, Gary DeMar
<excerpts> Gary DeMar is the president of American Vision, a Christian reconstructionist think tank based in Powder Springs, Ga. DeMar has worked for the group since 1981, when he started as a research analyst, and became its president in 1986. .DeMar has written more than two dozen books, mostly centered on his radical Christian beliefs.
DeMar’s American Vision is one of the strongholds of Christian Reconstructionist thought.
The group advocates for a complete theocracy governed by Old Testament law
Its tenets hold that the United States was founded as a “Christian nation” and that democracy needs to be replaced with a theocratic government based on Old Testament law.
American Vision holds that it is “restor[ing] America’s Biblical foundation” by advocating practices as draconian as the death penalty for those who engage in LGBT sex.
According to DeMar, the occasional execution would serve society well by driving “homosexuality underground, back into the closet.” .DeMar’s inflammatory statements do not stop with his anti-LGBT remarks
In April 2009, he stated that a “long-term goal” should be “the execution of abortionists and their parents.”
He is also no friend to Islam. In August 2010, he claimed, “The long-term goal of Islam is the abolition of our constitutional freedoms.”*
I thought this statement was particularly hilarious considering that was what DeMar was doing himself!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 18:47:55 GMT -5
"It may have been "god's" money, but it was Hovind and his wife who spent it!" And "it may be God's money, but it" is 2x2 overseers who spend it. Yet this has been the case with 2x2ism for over 100 years and the IRS has as yet allowed them to continue untouched by the IRS. WHY? - I think the only difference is that Hovind dared to publicly expose the secular religion being taught in public schools as a secular religion And that is certainly not the only case in which the IRS has gone after certain individual people using legal action and taxation as a tool of punishment. And according to my understanding from the foggy records, Hovind had or has a prison ministry I believe was started when the authorities put him in prison. Maybe that is why they released him early - i.e., for the punished to be punished the punished must feel punished. I think Hovind just preached his Biblical messages wherever God allowed him to be located at any time. But I was unable to find current clear information regarding Hovind today, other than the organization that he founded still has a website. But I have investigated in the mud puddle long enough to decide that the controversy alone has destroyed the effectiveness of Hovind's ministries regardless of whether he was right or wrong in those ministries. Oh, please!
Gratu.. You honestly believe that the IRS just goes after every Tom, Dick or Harry who preaches "creationism?" They are not one whit interested in what Hovind preached! I'm sure that Hovind is happy portraying himself as a martyr and no doubt relying on the gullible to bilk them for all he can get!
I do know that his son has take over his mantle last I heard.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 18:58:18 GMT -5
"No trick, gratu." rational knows what I am talking about using the word "trick" whether his assistants know the trick he pulled again in that post or not. His bag of tricks seems to be empty, so he just repeats them now and then to see if I will notice - I think. I am quite aware of your claims that are without any justification.
His post was no "trick."
It made perfect sense.
Do I need to spell it out in more detail and smaller words for you to be able to understand?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 19:06:02 GMT -5
"It may have been "god's" money, but it was Hovind and his wife who spent it!" And "it may be God's money, but it" is 2x2 overseers who spend it. Yet this has been the case with 2x2ism for over 100 years and the IRS has as yet allowed them to continue untouched by the IRS. WHY? - I think the only difference is that Hovind dared to publicly expose the secular religion being taught in public schools as a secular religion And that is certainly not the only case in which the IRS has gone after certain individual people using legal action and taxation as a tool of punishment. And according to my understanding from the foggy records, Hovind had or has a prison ministry I believe was started when the authorities put him in prison. Maybe that is why they released him early - i.e., for the punished to be punished the punished must feel punished. I think Hovind just preached his Biblical messages wherever God allowed him to be located at any time. But I was unable to find current clear information regarding Hovind today, other than the organization that he founded still has a website. But I have investigated in the mud puddle long enough to decide that the controversy alone has destroyed the effectiveness of Hovind's ministries regardless of whether he was right or wrong in those ministries. Oh, please!
Gratu.. You honestly believe that the IRS just goes after every Tom, Dick or Harry who preaches "creationism?" They are not one whit interested in what Hovind preached! I'm sure that Hovind is happy portraying himself as a martyr and no doubt relying on the gullible to bilk them for all he can get!
I do know that his son has take over his mantle last I heard.
i wouldn't be surprised as the IRS went after every tom dick and harry conservative 501c that lois learner got away with...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 19:07:09 GMT -5
"Gratu; About the author of your post, Gary DeMar"
Eventually, I would think for your own sake and writer's cramp, the atheist haters of "creationists" and "creation sites" will realize that I do not look at the messenger. I look at the message. So all the ad hominem practiced on here against "authors" (even Hovind) is a waste of your time except if others want to be steered away by ad hominem, which is probably the case for some visiting 2x2s who have not yet learned that we ALL have faults, but God uses many faulty people to pass on His message to other faulty people. I doubt that the non-never-2x2 visitors pay any attention to the 'kill the messenger' ploys of the average poster on this board while their motes are sticking out of their own eyes in full view of anyone looking at them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2019 19:30:50 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Sept 10, 2019 20:04:34 GMT -5
AHH - no tricks this time so I can full quote it without copying the tricks. And I full quote it just to say thank you for more heads-up on messengers whose messages seem both Biblical and accurate to me. And to answer your question, I find the people whose messages I post on here very much like I find churches that teach the Bible - by reading or watching their online messages and comparing their messages with Scripture. but I'll not bother using the technical term for the procedure because it may well be a foiegn language to you. I am trying to imagine the technical terms. Hermeneutics comes to mind. Or could it be epistemology? I'll bet it is semiotics. Probably not skepticism. Semantics? Maybe linguistics? All right, I give up. What is the technical term? I can spend the rest of the week trying to comprehend it.
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Post by rational on Sept 10, 2019 20:18:15 GMT -5
"Gratu; About the author of your post, Gary DeMar" Eventually, I would think for your own sake and writer's cramp, the atheist haters of "creationists" and "creation sites" will realize that I do not look at the messenger. I look at the message. So all the ad hominem practiced on here against "authors" (even Hovind) is a waste of your time except if others want to be steered away by ad hominem, which is probably the case for some visiting 2x2s who have not yet learned that we ALL have faults, but God uses many faulty people to pass on His message to other faulty people. I doubt that the non-never-2x2 visitors pay any attention to the 'kill the messenger' ploys of the average poster on this board while their motes are sticking out of their own eyes in full view of anyone looking at them. The messenger is not the issue. It is the message. Looking at the messenger and all of the claims they make is a good way to evaluate the accuracy of their message. When institutions like Liberty University speak out against the claims of the people whose links you post it is safe to assume what they are posting is far beyond the pale.
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Post by rational on Sept 10, 2019 20:29:09 GMT -5
A quick look at the link and the first item I noticed: April 3, 2016 from Answers Magazine Hardly a month passes without new reports of “soft tissue” discovered in fossils. Could this material last millions of years?The fact that this is still being presented as "proof" of a young earth brings a need for skepticism to the entire post. No mention of the chemical solution that explains the soft tissue. It is fraudulent reporting.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2019 21:08:49 GMT -5
"Gratu; About the author of your post, Gary DeMar" Eventually, I would think for your own sake and writer's cramp, the atheist haters of "creationists" and "creation sites" will realize that I do not look at the messenger. I look at the message. So all the ad hominem practiced on here against "authors" (even Hovind) is a waste of your time except if others want to be steered away by ad hominem, which is probably the case for some visiting 2x2s who have not yet learned that we ALL have faults, but God uses many faulty people to pass on His message to other faulty people. I doubt that the non-never-2x2 visitors pay any attention to the 'kill the messenger' ploys of the average poster on this board while their motes are sticking out of their own eyes in full view of anyone looking at them. Well that does explain a lot!
If you pay no attention to the integrity of the "messenger" -it is no wonder that you fall for any snake oil salesman who comes down the pike!
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