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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2018 13:51:19 GMT -5
They went to the temple daily to pray. you can pray anywhere.... But it does say to not pray in public, at least not out loud. No one in Christianity follows that rule.
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2018 13:57:25 GMT -5
Last convention we were at, the visiting worker said that in the course of the past year, her and her companion personally were only responsible for one person coming to gospel meetings. She went on to explain how the workers rely on the friends to be mixing with the world and inviting people. For me, it doesn't line up, but whatever people need to feel like they're part of the super secret one True way, I suppose. I would mention that multiple of the friends I've personally talked to are frustrated by this as well. But what do we know? I've become a "lost-out worldling", and they're "not in the center of God's True Way", so no cause to be doubters. *** what the sister worker said is true, most of the workers have little contacts with the world because they don't work. The workers can do some volunteer works for community, this way they have some exposure with outsiders. The workers today are 75% pastors, and 25% preaching. There are more to care for the lambs and sheep and more problems to deal with than the early workers. The friends can help the workers out by inviting their friends, neighbors, relatives or co-workers to hear the gospel because they have established good reports with them than the workers. Jesus apostolic ministry and followers working together as a TEAM for God's kingdom. Both teams have parts to fill, the church will grow and prospers when they work together. Don't try to work against each, that is the work of the enemy and Satan. Maybe they should work, or better still, volunteer. That way they would mingle with lots of people that they could bring into their religion.
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Post by snow on Aug 31, 2018 13:59:13 GMT -5
Your understanding of the workers and Jesus are kind of screwed up or NOT totally true according to majority of the workers lifestyle. There are a few ex-workers on the board so they KNOW about these things. So, let me explain... Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, that meant when he started out in the ministry, he LEFT ALL his possession, house if he had it, and occupation behind and went forth preaching the gospel by Faith that God the Father would provide for all his needs, homes to stay in, money to buy food, clothes and so on. Jesus has taught the men and women who God has called to be in the apostolic ministry, God would be taken cares of their daily needs just like He takes care of the birds and the lilies in the fields. Read Matthew 7:24-34.In the beginning when Jesus started in the ministry, he had no wife to bring along, or children, no home of his own, no money, he went in faith because he believed that God will move the hearts of men and women to provide for his daily needs. We read in the gospel the women, and men provided for Jesus daily needs and his followers just like he said it would happened in Matthew 7:24-34. AND is still the same today with majority of the workers!After being in the ministry a few years Jesus said this in John 4 after he had done visited with the Samaritan women and the disciples went into town to buy foods. John 4:34-38 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours. ~~ Many Samaritans made their choice to serve God because Jesus had taken the time to visit with her at the well. Many years later, we read in the book of Acts 8 Philip the evangelist came and preached the gospel to the Samaritans towns and many decided to serve God because Jesus had sown the gospel seeds to the Samaritan women testimony. Today's workers are enjoying homes to sleep, food to eat, cars to drive, money to spend and so on because of the early days had sown the gospel seeds in the hearts of men and women. The early workers slept in the open sky, in the school rooms, the barns or where they can lay their heads for the nights. The workers today are ENJOYING or reaping the benefits of the early days workers labored... Just like the apostles enjoy the fruits of harvest because of Jesus labor or spending time with the woman at the well.
Like Wally has said, there are some lazy workers among us, who don't like to go out and search for the lost sheep, lost coins and prodigals.... but majority of the workers do go out looking for people to tell about the gospel of Jesus Christ. When I was in the work we constantly busy 7 days a week, having bible studies with people, visit the sick in the nursing homes, hospitals, the elderly, or anyone wants to hear the gospel. Majority of the workers are following Jesus example for being NOT married in the ministry, they are NOT following Peter, who was an married apostle. The unmarried workers want to dedicate their whole life to God and God's people. Married workers have their attention are divided with trying to please the wife and their children if they had it. Paul wrote about this in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. Next you will be saying that Christ was the first worker.... In a way, isn't that exactly what they believe? After all if he was fully human and not a god like some Christian denominations believe, then he would have to be the first worker if there is an unbroken line of workers from the days of Jesus to this day and age.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 31, 2018 14:58:24 GMT -5
It's not an assumption that Christians were persecuted to go underground in Bible times throughout the Roman Empire. The Roman government severely punished people who would not honor all the gods being worshiped throughout the empire. Where they weren't restricted by Roman law for worshiping publicly was in Palestine, which wasn't a province in the Roman Empire but a separate territory that the Romans controlled. Jews (or Palestinian Christians as some would prefer to call them) were free to keep Jewish law as long as they didn't show any sign of revolt against the Roman government. We don't read of house worship being instituted in Biblical Palestine. just to be clear i didn't say it was an assumption that they were persecuted, i said that the reasons for home worship was ASSumed or guessing at best.... Knee jerk, Wally. I was confirming your suggestion that it was just an assumption.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 14:58:53 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 31, 2018 15:08:01 GMT -5
It's not an assumption that Christians were persecuted to go underground in Bible times throughout the Roman Empire. The Roman government severely punished people who would not honor all the gods being worshiped throughout the empire. Where they weren't restricted by Roman law for worshiping publicly was in Palestine, which wasn't a province in the Roman Empire but a separate territory that the Romans controlled. Jews (or Palestinian Christians as some would prefer to call them) were free to keep Jewish law as long as they didn't show any sign of revolt against the Roman government. We don't read of house worship being instituted in Biblical Palestine. Then Read Acts 1:12-20 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. That wasn't a church worship service. They were there to celebrate a Passover MEALin the traditional Jewish tradition -- AT A HOME. Like Christians celebrate a Christmas meal. NO MENTION OF A HOME CHURCH SERVICE NO MENTION OF A HOME CHURCH SERVICE [/b][/quote] YOUR WORDS AND ASSUMED INTERPRETATION
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 16:10:12 GMT -5
Your understanding of the workers and Jesus are kind of screwed up or NOT totally true according to majority of the workers lifestyle. There are a few ex-workers on the board so they KNOW about these things. So, let me explain... Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, that meant when he started out in the ministry, he LEFT ALL his possession, house if he had it, and occupation behind and went forth preaching the gospel by Faith that God the Father would provide for all his needs, homes to stay in, money to buy food, clothes and so on. Jesus has taught the men and women who God has called to be in the apostolic ministry, God would be taken cares of their daily needs just like He takes care of the birds and the lilies in the fields. Read Matthew 7:24-34.In the beginning when Jesus started in the ministry, he had no wife to bring along, or children, no home of his own, no money, he went in faith because he believed that God will move the hearts of men and women to provide for his daily needs. We read in the gospel the women, and men provided for Jesus daily needs and his followers just like he said it would happened in Matthew 7:24-34. AND is still the same today with majority of the workers!After being in the ministry a few years Jesus said this in John 4 after he had done visited with the Samaritan women and the disciples went into town to buy foods. John 4:34-38 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours. ~~ Many Samaritans made their choice to serve God because Jesus had taken the time to visit with her at the well. Many years later, we read in the book of Acts 8 Philip the evangelist came and preached the gospel to the Samaritans towns and many decided to serve God because Jesus had sown the gospel seeds to the Samaritan women testimony. Today's workers are enjoying homes to sleep, food to eat, cars to drive, money to spend and so on because of the early days had sown the gospel seeds in the hearts of men and women. The early workers slept in the open sky, in the school rooms, the barns or where they can lay their heads for the nights. The workers today are ENJOYING or reaping the benefits of the early days workers labored... Just like the apostles enjoy the fruits of harvest because of Jesus labor or spending time with the woman at the well.
Like Wally has said, there are some lazy workers among us, who don't like to go out and search for the lost sheep, lost coins and prodigals.... but majority of the workers do go out looking for people to tell about the gospel of Jesus Christ. When I was in the work we constantly busy 7 days a week, having bible studies with people, visit the sick in the nursing homes, hospitals, the elderly, or anyone wants to hear the gospel. Majority of the workers are following Jesus example for being NOT married in the ministry, they are NOT following Peter, who was an married apostle. The unmarried workers want to dedicate their whole life to God and God's people. Married workers have their attention are divided with trying to please the wife and their children if they had it. Paul wrote about this in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. Next you will be saying that Christ was the first worker.... ** Yes, Christ was the first worker in His heavenly harvest field/ world. Jesus was His heavenly apostle= Sent one. The apostles/workers are Jesus sent ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 16:54:09 GMT -5
I Think Jesus was just one of the workers. He might not have even been the first one. Doesn't it say he was a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Maybe Melchizedek was the first worker. It doesn't mention his companion, probably a younger brother worker.
I remember seeing workers pictures on the friend's Facebook page with comment after comment to praise. I tried posting a picture of Jesus in a famous painting of The Sermon on the Mount. It did not go over well at all, but in the comments, people were very thankful for the true servants who brought them the true picture of Jesus. It was kind of sad, but there you have it.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 17:30:11 GMT -5
Then Read Acts 1:12-20 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. That wasn't a church worship service. They were there to celebrate a Passover MEALin the traditional Jewish tradition -- AT A HOME. Like Christians celebrate a Christmas meal. NO MENTION OF A HOME CHURCH SERVICE NO MENTION OF A HOME CHURCH SERVICE [/b][/quote] BobW wrote: YOUR WORDS AND ASSUMED INTERPRETATION[/quote] ~~ NOT mine words or my own interpretation but the LORD Jesus and apostles teachings READ I Cor. chapters 11-14. You were a 2x2 for over 50 yrs and a church elder and you don't KNOW and understand this. That is truly VERY sad.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 17:34:49 GMT -5
I Think Jesus was just one of the workers. He might not have even been the first one. Doesn't it say he was a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Maybe Melchizedek was the first worker. It doesn't mention his companion, probably a younger brother worker. I remember seeing workers pictures on the friend's Facebook page with comment after comment to praise. I tried posting a picture of Jesus in a famous painting of The Sermon on the Mount. It did not go over well at all, but in the comments, people were very thankful for the true servants who brought them the true picture of Jesus. It was kind of sad, but there you have it. Jesus was an apostle and High priest of the Most High God in New Testament. Jesus is the High Priest of New Testament and was the Melchizedek High Priest of the Most High God in the Old Testament.
There are many similarities Between Jesus in the New Testament and Melchizedek in the Old Testament Hebrews chapter 7-8. Christ in the Old Testament came down in human form as Melchizedek of the Old Testament High Priest of the Most High God/the Father.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 18:35:16 GMT -5
just to be clear i didn't say it was an assumption that they were persecuted, i said that the reasons for home worship was ASSumed or guessing at best.... Knee jerk, Wally. I was confirming your suggestion that it was just an assumption. just making sure you were not twisting my words as you usually try to do....
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 31, 2018 19:17:42 GMT -5
Knee jerk, Wally. I was confirming your suggestion that it was just an assumption. just making sure you were not twisting my words as you usually try to do.... You just got it right that time.
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Post by speak on Aug 31, 2018 19:35:31 GMT -5
They went to the temple daily to pray. Which temple did Philemon pray in ?
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Post by Grant on Aug 31, 2018 22:24:52 GMT -5
It does not say which temple Philemon prayed in. It just says he remembered them in his prayers. I don't even know if the temple had been destroyed by the time he came along.
What we do know is that the believers sold everything and had everything in common and continued to meet together every day in the temple courts. There were signs and wonders, healings and speaking in tongues. All which the workers do not do yet claim to be copying the apostles ministry.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 31, 2018 22:51:42 GMT -5
It does not say which temple Philemon prayed in. It just says he remembered them in his prayers. I don't even know if the temple had been destroyed by the time he came along. What we do know is that the believers sold everything and had everything in common and continued to meet together every day in the temple courts. There were signs and wonders, healings and speaking in tongues. All which the workers do not do yet claim to be copying the apostles ministry. And THAT would have been the Jewish temple. The temple wasn't a "denominational" property. Jews of all persuasions used it. But knowing Philemon's closeness to Paul and his Greek heritage, if he DID pray in a temple it could very well have been a Pagan temple. They were found everywhere in the Roman Empire.
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Post by speak on Aug 31, 2018 23:09:25 GMT -5
It does not say which temple Philemon prayed in. It just says he remembered them in his prayers. I don't even know if the temple had been destroyed by the time he came along. What we do know is that the believers sold everything and had everything in common and continued to meet together every day in the temple courts. There were signs and wonders, healings and speaking in tongues. All which the workers do not do yet claim to be copying the apostles ministry. Speaking in tongues is just babble which nobody understands, I doubt Jesus spoke in tongues, how could He reach the people if He did? same with the workers today it would be a worthless exersize. And there are signs, wonders and healings today it is that you don't recognize them or you can't see them.
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Post by Grant on Aug 31, 2018 23:16:53 GMT -5
You think the apostles didn't reach the people and that it was just a worthless exercise? Tongues and miracles were a sign of the holy spirit after the resurrection and God at work. The signs and miracles by Jesus and the apostles were seen by the multitudes they were not hidden.
The workers are not reaching people so is their ministry a worthless exercise? Guess so!!
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 23:22:05 GMT -5
It does not say which temple Philemon prayed in. It just says he remembered them in his prayers. I don't even know if the temple had been destroyed by the time he came along. What we do know is that the believers sold everything and had everything in common and continued to meet together every day in the temple courts. There were signs and wonders, healings and speaking in tongues. All which the workers do not do yet claim to be copying the apostles ministry. Speaking in tongues is just babble which nobody understands, I doubt Jesus spoke in tongues, how could He reach the people if He did? same with the workers today it would be a worthless exersize. And there are signs, wonders and healings today it is that you don't recognize them or you can't see them. Amen, Speak... the Bible speaking in tongues, where the hearers understand the speakers NOT in Jiberish non-sense that nobody KNOWS what the speakers saying... Even the tongues speakers today DON'T KNOW or UNDERSTAND what he is SAYING most of the time. God is NOT the author of confusion! He is the God of Orders.
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Post by Grant on Aug 31, 2018 23:25:57 GMT -5
And you claim to be following the apostolic ministry. The apostles were a weird bunch? It was to be in order in church meetings and interpreted, not creating confusion.
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 23:32:56 GMT -5
It does not say which temple Philemon prayed in. It just says he remembered them in his prayers. I don't even know if the temple had been destroyed by the time he came along. What we do know is that the believers sold everything and had everything in common and continued to meet together every day in the temple courts. There were signs and wonders, healings and speaking in tongues. All which the workers do not do yet claim to be copying the apostles ministry. The believers in Jerusalem Acts 2-6 (Pentecostal feast) SOLD some of their property, land and laid the money at the apostles feet so they could divide up the money to help 3000 and 5000 had converted to become Christ's followers. They want to stay a little longer in to learn more about Jesus and his teachings from the apostles before they were heading back homes to their countries!
The communion living was a one time thing!
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Post by nathan on Aug 31, 2018 23:37:28 GMT -5
And you claim to be following the apostolic ministry. The apostles were a weird bunch? It was to be in order in church meetings and interpreted, not creating confusion. The tongues in I Cor. was about speaking in human known languages (NOT the Jiberish non-sense we see many Pentecostal are doing in their church services), where others in the meetings had NOT learned the languages so Paul asked to have interpreters so those in the gathering could understand what the speakers are saying! If there was NO interpreter in the room then the speaker should not try to speak in languages that nobody could understand.
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Post by speak on Sept 1, 2018 1:06:24 GMT -5
You think the apostles didn't reach the people and that it was just a worthless exercise? Tongues and miracles were a sign of the holy spirit after the resurrection and God at work. The signs and miracles by Jesus and the apostles were seen by the multitudes they were not hidden. The workers are not reaching people so is their ministry a worthless exercise? Guess so!! Who said the apostles didn't reach the people? man you like to twist what people write. Did Jesus speak in tongues? If you read your Bible you will notice that it is God who draws. You know I have a great problem with you, it is that in most every post you write there is always a critical note. An example of loving you neighbor no doubt? ?
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Post by speak on Sept 1, 2018 1:11:12 GMT -5
And you claim to be following the apostolic ministry. The apostles were a weird bunch? It was to be in order in church meetings and interpreted, not creating confusion. Tell what here is some tongues, perhaps you could decipher it for me. , d,;mfjpekgrm,aJK CV56+1987 noitem sgt? ?? I can understand the date so don't worry about that. Boy now I'm really confused so i'm looking forward to your help.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2018 1:39:48 GMT -5
You think the apostles didn't reach the people and that it was just a worthless exercise? Tongues and miracles were a sign of the holy spirit after the resurrection and God at work. The signs and miracles by Jesus and the apostles were seen by the multitudes they were not hidden. The workers are not reaching people so is their ministry a worthless exercise? Guess so!! Who said the apostles didn't reach the people? man you like to twist what people write. Did Jesus speak in tongues? If you read your Bible you will notice that it is God who draws. You know I have a great problem with you, it is that in most every post you write there is always a critical note. An example of loving you neighbor no doubt? ? You wrote that "Speaking in tongues is just babble which nobody understands, I doubt Jesus spoke in tongues, how could He reach the people if He did? same with the workers today it would be a worthless exersize. And there are signs, wonders and healings today it is that you don't recognize them or you can't see them". No one is twisting except you. You wrote that tongues would be a worthless exercise if the workers used it, and that Jesus could not reach people if he spoke in tongues. As I said tongues were given as a sign of the Holy Spirit which was only sent after the resurrection. The apostles had it in their ministry and it was not a worthless exercise as they reached a lot of people. As I stated, the workers are not reaching people so is it a worthless exercise? I see you do not like to be challenged, sorry to rock the boat. God draws people in many different ways. No I did not know you had a problem with me as we have not spoken before. Talk about negative, isn't it the pot calling the kettle black? And sorry I am not your neighbour in any sense of the word except we are on this board, if that makes me a neighbour. I doubt if we are even on the same planet.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2018 1:45:57 GMT -5
And you claim to be following the apostolic ministry. The apostles were a weird bunch? It was to be in order in church meetings and interpreted, not creating confusion. Tell what here is some tongues, perhaps you could decipher it for me. , d,;mfjpekgrm,aJK CV56+1987 noitem sgt? ?? I can understand the date so don't worry about that. Boy now I'm really confused so i'm looking forward to your help. You certainly are confused. Mock the Bible all you want.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2018 2:04:06 GMT -5
And you claim to be following the apostolic ministry. The apostles were a weird bunch? It was to be in order in church meetings and interpreted, not creating confusion. The tongues in I Cor. was about speaking in human known languages (NOT the Jiberish non-sense we see many Pentecostal are doing in their church services), where others in the meetings had NOT learned the languages so Paul asked to have interpreters so those in the gathering could understand what the speakers are saying! If there was NO interpreter in the room then the speaker should not try to speak in languages that nobody could understand. 1 Corinthains 13:1, Paul said, though I speak with the tongues of men and angels ...... and have not charity...... Is the language of angels a known language? Some languages were known some were not. Many times it was not. The gift of tongues was part of the New Testament church life. Some miracles, some tongues, etc. Tongues was a sign that the Holy spirit was there. It was not forbidden except if someone was speaking it out loud in the church and no one was there to interpret it. Even if it was other languages, the people had not learned it. The apostolic church had tongues and miracles evident. A person cannot call themselves the apostolic ministry if they do not have these signs in their ministry. It was obviously in the New Testament church. I have no problem if churches do or do not have these signs but I have a problem with people saying they are a continuation of the apostolic ministry but do not have a ministry like the apostles had. Come to think of it, it is only Nathan who claims it is the apostlic ministry although the workers claimed in the past to be a continuation of it but even now most acknowledge they were started by men just over 100 years ago.
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Post by speak on Sept 1, 2018 2:09:12 GMT -5
Tell what here is some tongues, perhaps you could decipher it for me. , d,;mfjpekgrm,aJK CV56+1987 noitem sgt? ?? I can understand the date so don't worry about that. Boy now I'm really confused so i'm looking forward to your help. You certainly are confused. Mock the Bible all you want. You think that's mocking the Bible?? Oh well takes all sorts.
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Post by speak on Sept 1, 2018 2:12:01 GMT -5
Who said the apostles didn't reach the people? man you like to twist what people write. Did Jesus speak in tongues? If you read your Bible you will notice that it is God who draws. You know I have a great problem with you, it is that in most every post you write there is always a critical note. An example of loving you neighbor no doubt? ? You wrote that "Speaking in tongues is just babble which nobody understands, I doubt Jesus spoke in tongues, how could He reach the people if He did? same with the workers today it would be a worthless exersize. And there are signs, wonders and healings today it is that you don't recognize them or you can't see them". No one is twisting except you. You wrote that tongues would be a worthless exercise if the workers used it, and that Jesus could not reach people if he spoke in tongues. As I said tongues were given as a sign of the Holy Spirit which was only sent after the resurrection. The apostles had it in their ministry and it was not a worthless exercise as they reached a lot of people. As I stated, the workers are not reaching people so is it a worthless exercise? I see you do not like to be challenged, sorry to rock the boat. God draws people in many different ways. No I did not know you had a problem with me as we have not spoken before. Talk about negative, isn't it the pot calling the kettle black? And sorry I am not your neighbour in any sense of the word except we are on this board, if that makes me a neighbour. I doubt if we are even on the same planet. Can't you answer a simple question? Did Jesus speak in tongues?
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