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Post by howitis on Apr 22, 2018 2:59:53 GMT -5
Well there you go.....you know what one conversation was, I may know of some too, neither of us know all the conversations....do we. We can ASSume much ....it doesnt make it absolute does it?? You are avoiding the issue howitis ! My concern is what the Worker said when questioned if he should be at Convention ! "If anyone needs Convention he does" is hardly a responsible reply to a man who is on bail for CSA ! Am I avoiding the issue Roselyn?, are you really concerned or just trying to cause a stir? If you are truly concerned you will see the wisdom in such an answer.....the perpetrator was not able to go back to the judge and say he had been excluded from a fellowship which he had been involved in since birth therefore he is suffering and needs a more lenient sentence, nor could he say that his case was being discussed by the leader of his church and he had been discriminated against.....sometimes we must think a little farther than our own simplistic reasoning. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 3:33:59 GMT -5
You are avoiding the issue howitis ! My concern is what the Worker said when questioned if he should be at Convention ! "If anyone needs Convention he does" is hardly a responsible reply to a man who is on bail for CSA ! Am I avoiding the issue Roselyn?, are you really concerned or just trying to cause a stir? If you are truly concerned you will see the wisdom in such an answer.....the perpetrator was not able to go back to the judge and say he had been excluded from a fellowship which he had been involved in since birth therefore he is suffering and needs a more lenient sentence, nor could he say that his case was being discussed by the leader of his church and he had been discriminated against.....sometimes we must think a little farther than our own simplistic reasoning. If that was the case why weren't people told that he was going to be allowed at Convention and to be careful? Sorry I don't believe that for one minute considering what the Head Worker at the time had to say.... it was all about trying to hide it and not give the "truth" a bad name ! |
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Post by howitis on Apr 22, 2018 3:38:14 GMT -5
Am I avoiding the issue Roselyn?, are you really concerned or just trying to cause a stir? If you are truly concerned you will see the wisdom in such an answer.....the perpetrator was not able to go back to the judge and say he had been excluded from a fellowship which he had been involved in since birth therefore he is suffering and needs a more lenient sentence, nor could he say that his case was being discussed by the leader of his church and he had been discriminated against.....sometimes we must think a little farther than our own simplistic reasoning. If that was the case why weren't people told that he was going to be allowed at Convention and to be careful? Sorry I don't believe that for one minute considering what the Head Worker at the time had to say.... it was all about trying to hide it and not give the "truth" a bad name ! Believe what you like Roselyn!! You ask a question that has already been answered. I will ask a question again that has already been answered too, as the significance obviously hasn't permeated.....did he attend the convention? YES or NO? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 5:48:03 GMT -5
If that was the case why weren't people told that he was going to be allowed at Convention and to be careful? Sorry I don't believe that for one minute considering what the Head Worker at the time had to say.... it was all about trying to hide it and not give the "truth" a bad name ! Believe what you like Roselyn!! You ask a question that has already been answered. I will ask a question again that has already been answered too, as the significance obviously hasn't permeated.....did he attend the convention? YES or NO? And you are missing the point howitis ! How on any level is it okay to risk a man on bail for CSA to go to a place where there are a lot of children ? There is no way he would have tried to blame the church or the head Worker for not letting him go, because then it would have to come out what church he belonged to ! This is another example of how far behind the 2x2 church is as far as CSA goes. |
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Post by howitis on Apr 22, 2018 6:18:40 GMT -5
Believe what you like Roselyn!! You ask a question that has already been answered. I will ask a question again that has already been answered too, as the significance obviously hasn't permeated.....did he attend the convention? YES or NO? And you are missing the point howitis ! How on any level is it okay to risk a man on bail for CSA to go to a place where there are a lot of children ? There is no way he would have tried to blame the church or the head Worker for not letting him go, because then it would have to come out what church he belonged to ! This is another example of how far behind the 2x2 church is as far as CSA goes. Courts of law are funny things Roselyn, I was once involved in a case giving support to a lady who had been tied up and almost murdered by people paid by her husband, the judge decided on a lenient sentence because in the culture these people came from family was important and the judge noted that this man's wife had not visited him whilst he was in jail, therefore the lenient sentence....one can never leave anything to chance....as I said though you believe what you wish. Remember the question? The answer is NO he DIDN'T go to convention!!! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 17:22:16 GMT -5
And you are missing the point howitis ! How on any level is it okay to risk a man on bail for CSA to go to a place where there are a lot of children ? There is no way he would have tried to blame the church or the head Worker for not letting him go, because then it would have to come out what church he belonged to ! This is another example of how far behind the 2x2 church is as far as CSA goes. Courts of law are funny things Roselyn, I was once involved in a case giving support to a lady who had been tied up and almost murdered by people paid by her husband, the judge decided on a lenient sentence because in the culture these people came from family was important and the judge noted that this man's wife had not visited him whilst he was in jail, therefore the lenient sentence....one can never leave anything to chance....as I said though you believe what you wish. Remember the question? The answer is NO he DIDN'T go to convention!!! I am well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 17:23:15 GMT -5
Courts of law are funny things Roselyn, I was once involved in a case giving support to a lady who had been tied up and almost murdered by people paid by her husband, the judge decided on a lenient sentence because in the culture these people came from family was important and the judge noted that this man's wife had not visited him whilst he was in jail, therefore the lenient sentence....one can never leave anything to chance....as I said though you believe what you wish. Remember the question? The answer is NO he DIDN'T go to convention!!! I well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! where would you suggest they go to church? |
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Post by howitis on Apr 22, 2018 17:33:48 GMT -5
Courts of law are funny things Roselyn, I was once involved in a case giving support to a lady who had been tied up and almost murdered by people paid by her husband, the judge decided on a lenient sentence because in the culture these people came from family was important and the judge noted that this man's wife had not visited him whilst he was in jail, therefore the lenient sentence....one can never leave anything to chance....as I said though you believe what you wish. Remember the question? The answer is NO he DIDN'T go to convention!!! I well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! And you are sidestepping the issue that a) there were more conversations than the single one you know of! b) there are perfect valid reasons for the reply the worker gave....it's just you choose not to consider them. c) it doesn't matter either way the point is he DID NOT attend convention and because of this it cannot be said that the 2x2's were helping hide the crimes or assisting the perpetrator. Have a lovely day Roselyn I will not be answering you anymore in regards to this matter. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 17:54:59 GMT -5
howitis I well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! And you are sidestepping the issue that a) there were more conversations than the single one you know of! b) there are perfect valid reasons for the reply the worker gave....it's just you choose not to consider them. c) it doesn't matter either way the point is he DID NOT attend convention and because of this it cannot be said that the 2x2's were helping hide the crimes or assisting the perpetrator. Have a lovely day Roselyn I will not be answering you anymore in regards to this matter. Well howitis you will twist it to suit your views anyway ! You obviously are not privy to what the then Head Worker said at the time to try and hide it all ! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 17:55:47 GMT -5
howitis I well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! where would you suggest they go to church? Are you serious @wally ! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 17:58:10 GMT -5
where would you suggest they go to church? Are you serious @wally ! quite serious. in your all knowing all loving power where would you suggest they go to church? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 18:18:04 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 18:19:53 GMT -5
quite serious. in your all knowing all loving power where would you suggest they go to church? What exactly do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? If a person is on bail for CSA they should NOT be allowed to go to a church where there are children full stop in my opinion, but if he does go EVERYONE should be told so the children can be protected. Which of course will not happen with the 2x2's !! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 18:25:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 18:27:23 GMT -5
good to know the uniting church has standards for CSA....but that doesn't answer my question where would YOU suggest they go for church? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 18:33:00 GMT -5
quite serious. in your all knowing all loving power where would you suggest they go to church? What exactly do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? If a person is on bail for CSA they should NOT be allowed to go to a church where there are children full stop in my opinion, but if he does go EVERYONE should be told so the children can be protected. Which of course will not happen with the 2x2's !! we have two CSA perps that go and take part in mtg's in my field EVERYONE knows to watch them closely as long as EVERYONE knows i see no problem...the one is going away though for cancer and dementia but the other one is a full particpant. |
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Post by rational on Apr 22, 2018 18:41:46 GMT -5
Courts of law are funny things Roselyn, I was once involved in a case giving support to a lady who had been tied up and almost murdered by people paid by her husband, the judge decided on a lenient sentence because in the culture these people came from family was important and the judge noted that this man's wife had not visited him whilst he was in jail, therefore the lenient sentence....one can never leave anything to chance....as I said though you believe what you wish. Remember the question? The answer is NO he DIDN'T go to convention!!! I well aware that he didn't go to Convention, but you are sidestepping the issue of what the Worker said when asked why as far as the church was concerned he would be allowed to attend a Convention when he was on bail for CSA ! A good point to remember is that while he was out on bail he had not been convicted of any crime. Had the court considered his a threat there would have been restraining conditions put in place. Perhaps an announcement should have been made to inform those present but that would hardly be in keeping with the spirit of the event. |
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Post by rational on Apr 22, 2018 18:44:47 GMT -5
quite serious. in your all knowing all loving power where would you suggest they go to church? What exactly do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? If a person is on bail for CSA they should NOT be allowed to go to a church where there are children full stop in my opinion, but if he does go EVERYONE should be told so the children can be protected. Which of course will not happen with the 2x2's !! Would you allow the person to go food shopping? Perhaps a scarlet letter? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 19:33:43 GMT -5
What exactly do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? If a person is on bail for CSA they should NOT be allowed to go to a church where there are children full stop in my opinion, but if he does go EVERYONE should be told so the children can be protected. Which of course will not happen with the 2x2's !! we have two CSA perps that go and take part in mtg's in my field EVERYONE knows to watch them closely as long as EVERYONE knows i see no problem...the one is going away though for cancer and dementia but the other one is a full particpant. Exactly EVERYONE knows, so how would EVERYONE be told at Convention @wally ? What do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 20:07:02 GMT -5
we have two CSA perps that go and take part in mtg's in my field EVERYONE knows to watch them closely as long as EVERYONE knows i see no problem...the one is going away though for cancer and dementia but the other one is a full particpant. Exactly EVERYONE knows, so how would EVERYONE be told at Convention @wally ? What do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? its made known through the workers and the elders to EVERYONE who to keep an eye on.....i'll let you figure it out... |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 20:19:08 GMT -5
Exactly EVERYONE knows, so how would EVERYONE be told at Convention @wally ? What do you mean by "all knowing" @wally ? its made known through the workers and the elders to EVERYONE who to keep an eye on.....i'll let you figure it out... As far as this case goes I would say that I do know more about it ! So if I come across as all knowing there maybe a reason ! Okay so you know of the workers telling elders to tell everyone who to keep an eye on ....strange then why in this case a Workers response was "if anyone needed convention this man did". If they were at all concerned about the children when they were asked why he would be allowed to attend, didn't they say that everyone had been warned about him ? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 20:27:28 GMT -5
its made known through the workers and the elders to EVERYONE who to keep an eye on.....i'll let you figure it out... As far as this case goes I would say that I do know more about it ! So if I come across as all knowing there maybe a reason ! Okay so you know of the workers telling elders to tell everyone who to keep an eye on ....strange then why in this case a Workers response was "if anyone needed convention this man did". If they were at all concerned about the children when they were asked why he was allowed to attend, didn't they say that everyone had been warned about him ? if they have notified everyone concerned(and obviously they have since even you knew about him and others did to) then even i would have said "if anyone needed convention this man did"... they could watch him carefully even assign someone to watch over him(unpleasent though it may be)... |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 20:37:47 GMT -5
As far as this case goes I would say that I do know more about it ! So if I come across as all knowing there maybe a reason ! Okay so you know of the workers telling elders to tell everyone who to keep an eye on ....strange then why in this case a Workers response was "if anyone needed convention this man did". If they were at all concerned about the children when they were asked why he was allowed to attend, didn't they say that everyone had been warned about him ? if they have notified everyone concerned(and obviously they have since even you knew about him and others did to) then even i would have said "if anyone needed convention this man did"... they could watch him carefully even assign someone to watch over him(unpleasent though it may be)... Well see @wally that is where you have ASSumed something ! I knew because it was very "close to home' if you like, the biggest percent of people at that Convention would have had no idea ! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 20:39:38 GMT -5
if they have notified everyone concerned(and obviously they have since even you knew about him and others did to) then even i would have said "if anyone needed convention this man did"... they could watch him carefully even assign someone to watch over him(unpleasent though it may be)... Well see @wally that is where you have ASSumed something ! I knew because it was very "close to home' if you like, the biggest percent of people at that Convention would have had no idea ! you don't know that your making crap up....we all know how gossip runs in the 2x2... |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 21:13:03 GMT -5
Well see @wally that is where you have ASSumed something ! I knew because it was very "close to home' if you like, the biggest percent of people at that Convention would have had no idea ! you don't know that your making crap up....we all know how gossip runs in the 2x2... Whatever you think @wally, but just to clarify exactly what do you think I am "making up" ? |
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Post by kittens on Apr 22, 2018 22:19:10 GMT -5
Well see @wally that is where you have ASSumed something ! I knew because it was very "close to home' if you like, the biggest percent of people at that Convention would have had no idea ! you don't know that your making crap up....we all know how gossip runs in the 2x2... |
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Post by howitis on Apr 22, 2018 22:56:48 GMT -5
you don't know that your making crap up....we all know how gossip runs in the 2x2... Yes I know how gossip runs in the 2 x 2's. But unfortunately it is very easy not to find out about important information like this at convention if you are not amongst the gossipers. Every single person on the convention grounds should know to keep an eye out even if they don't have children because they may see something which would not normally raise any suspicions but in these circumstances would be a problem. Eg. A man walking with a child, holding their hand, going behind a tree or building with them. In this case the man was out on bail, we must remember that a) he had not been convicted b) he did not attend the convention so no one had to be told at the convention. c) speaking about these cases publicly before conviction is frowned upon by the courts |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 22, 2018 23:58:36 GMT -5
Yes I know how gossip runs in the 2 x 2's. But unfortunately it is very easy not to find out about important information like this at convention if you are not amongst the gossipers. Every single person on the convention grounds should know to keep an eye out even if they don't have children because they may see something which would not normally raise any suspicions but in these circumstances would be a problem. Eg. A man walking with a child, holding their hand, going behind a tree or building with them. In this case the man was out on bail, we must remember that a) he had not been convicted b) he did not attend the convention so no one had to be told at the convention. c) speaking about these cases publicly before conviction is frowned upon by the courts Why didn't he go to Convention howitis ? |
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