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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 17:17:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 17:18:11 GMT -5
Eldon Knudsen - Gospel Meeting - Glencoe, Australia - 1995 God has been calling at this Convention and I don’t suppose there is one of us who has not heard in some way or another. We are so thankful for God’s patience with us and kindness in dealing with us, in giving so much. In Luke 7:19, John the Baptist sent his disciples to Jesus to ask Him, “Art Thou He that should come? Or do we look for another?” Jesus said in verse 22, “Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard...” After they went back to John, Jesus said to the people concerning John, “What went ye out into the wilderness to see?” In verses 27-28 is the testimony Jesus gave of John.
John was in prison at this time, because he spoke to Herod of the standard of righteousness. Herod liked to listen to John about eternal things, but when it came to this, he put him into prison. Herodias hated John because of this and she arranged for John to be beheaded. John wanted his disciples to follow Jesus, the Lamb of God. Jesus went on to say of John that there was no greater prophet than He.
Some of those who went to see John were expecting to see some great thing to happen, but those who went to see him as a prophet received a message from God to repent, and many did and were baptized of John. They came to the place of repentance and brought forth fruits meet for repentance. They were justified by saying, “God is right.” The message coming from our hearts these days is that God is righteous. God is a righteous God, there is nothing unrighteous in Him.
Jesus went on in verses 31-32, “Whereunto shall I liken the men of this generation? And to what are they like?” What is this generation like? Where do we fit in? Calling one to another are the two sides of the Gospel story. There is the right choice we have been hearing about and the cost of it, and then the cost of rejecting the Gospel. We were in the workplace one day and we saw a woman playing a tune on an instrument of just one or two strings and it was very lovely, captivating the fellows as they went by. She was expecting something, a little sacrifice from them. Another day saw the same woman sitting there, a little child with her. She was playing a very solemn tune. Some of those people were captivated by that melody seeing that woman by that little child and they were moved to sacrifice.
We have been hearing the story of the Gospel, the peace and satisfaction of knowing we are loving and pleasing our Creator. Perhaps some other messages are what would happen if we reject Him. Where would we be found? What is this generation like? What are we doing now with the messages we have heard? We are soon going out and every one of us is going to have to do something with what we have heard. Are we going to say, “God is right,” and accept it and prove God is right, or, going out, are we going to be rejecting the message of hope for ourselves and continue in our own pathway?
My elder brother was walking in God’s pathway but was lured away by the attractions of the world. There are pleasures in this world but they are very shallow, empty, and short-lived. He wanted the pleasures of this world. Dad tried to talk to him to consider what he was doing but he did not listen and went out. Years went by and he returned to some meetings and wanted to make a new start but went out and was lured away again. Time and time again he wanted to return but could not seem to make the right about turn. “For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” If we sow wild oats, that’s what we will reap. There is a price to pay even when we go back again. A mark has been left and the person regrets that they ever went out.
I used to worry about my elder brother. He never found a place of repentance and was killed in a car accident. He was never willing to humble himself. What are we going to do with the messages we have heard in these meetings? Jesus was with His disciples at the feast of the Passover. They went out from the Passover. Peter went out to deny Jesus though he didn’t intend to. Maybe some of us, in our weakness, might deny Christ. Peter didn’t stay there. He went out and wept bitterly and found a place of repentance and returned.
Nurses in their studies are told how to treat patients and how to give medications. They are told, “If you make a mistake, be sure you always know the remedy for it, and immediately apply it.” We are thankful we have been here these days, hearing about the wonderful plan of God, and are going out in confidence that this is God’s way and we are going to follow it. Maybe in our weak moment, we may deny Christ, but we know the remedy and God is anxious to lift us up.
Another man went out from the Passover and he went out into darkness. That was Judas. He went out to betray Christ. If we go out without Christ in our life into a cruel, dark world, it will only want to destroy us. Satan wants to do that. Judas went out into the darkness and before he realized what he had done, the door had closed for him. “Strive to enter in at the strait gate, for many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able ... I know you not whence ye are.”
Not one of us who are of the years of understanding can say we don’t know what God’s will is for us. When the door is shut, this closes the promises of God. Matthew 7:7, “... knock and it shall be opened unto you.” The door was closed now and would not be opened again. It would be sad if we were satisfied with what we are now. The children in the marketplace were looking for a response from their fellows and that is what God is looking for as we go out.
The Workers are also going out from this place. I have heard many things that are a help to me, but I must respond to them. The Workers are going out to sow the seed, because we have faith in the seed that it will produce, as Jesus taught us, if it falls into good soil, that it will produce what God has promised, and in our life, too. Before the meeting, I read hymn 405 about the call to labour. Later, you might hear this call once more to labour. I hope God will continue His call to labour to the young ones in this meeting.
I thought of the Friends leaving this Convention. Matthew 25 speaks of the ten virgins. They went out to meet the bridegroom. It says that they all slumbered and slept. There has to be a time of rest, but we want to make sure we always have in our being the love of God that will awaken and quicken us even in the midnight hour when the call comes, that we will always be able to rise and trim our lamps and meet Him. We don’t know when the Bridegroom is coming, and if we are ready, we won’t need to worry. We don’t want to be like the foolish who wanted to borrow and were told, “But we have not enough, just enough for ourselves.” They went to the source but came back too late and the door was closed.
In Mark 2:3-12, they brought to Jesus a man sick of the palsy. When he was healed, he went forth and glorified God. He praised God in thankfulness. There may be some with us who have not made their choice to serve God, going out from this meeting also. What are you going to do? In Luke 7:12-15, a young man was carried away by others because he had died. He was the only son of his mother and she was a widow. Can you imagine the sorrow? If you go out in that dead condition you will be carried away. Our prayer is that you will feel God wants to touch your life. You don’t have to go out in that condition, but in the power of God and with the help of God.
I am glad I was raised in a home with parents who loved God. When I was young and going to school, there were about five churches in our little town. I thought perhaps that they were right also but I went home and opened my Bible to Matthew 10 of Jesus and the way God planned.
In the country where I work, they have hired and paid preachers, not in the way of God, but in man’s way and that can only produce man’s ideas and results. In Sweden, there is a state church. When a priest is needed, they advertise and different ones can apply. They have to give a trial sermon and then they are voted on by the congregation. What Jesus established is still the same on this earth today and we are thankful for those who continue to follow.
I hope there will be a positive response to what God has been able to speak to us. I hope we are not so hardened that God has not been able to speak. May we go out to do the will of God and be a light in this dark world, and know salvation. This is what brings so much joy to us.
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Post by speak on Jun 23, 2017 18:52:46 GMT -5
Do you have a big brother or sister or even anyone that you have spoken against let alone you are speaking against now? If you say no then that would be untrue because you do it a lot on this board, It's all very well to rail on someone then try to excuse yourself of doing the same yourself so i'm judging you as being a hypocrite.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 19:11:59 GMT -5
I am not overseeing a nation. When religious leaders give bad advice from the platform the people suffer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 19:15:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 19:16:40 GMT -5
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 23, 2017 19:48:05 GMT -5
Eldon is also notable for leading the secret incorporation of the 2x2's in Sweden in 1992. Interestingly, this was 3 years before Willis Propp incorporated in Alberta. Willis either borrowed from Eldon's constitution, or more likely they both borrowed from some "Overseer's Handbook" on creating corporations. Sweden ( 1992): "Eldon [the overseer] will receive free board and support. This shall primarily come from the members. The organization guarantees that Eldon will receive free board and support."www.anotherstep.net/summary/summary.12.htmAlberta ( 1995): "The Overseer is to receive free board and lodgings. This comes firstly as free-will offerings from Members. The society otherwise guarantees that the Overseer shall receive board and lodgings."www.workersect.org/alberta_2x2incorporation.pdf
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Post by speak on Jun 23, 2017 22:49:56 GMT -5
I am not overseeing a nation. When religious leaders give bad advice from the platform the people suffer. So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 8:05:59 GMT -5
Suffer? How so?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 8:06:45 GMT -5
Speak, I have no authority over anyone. They do. That's a big difference.
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Post by snow on Jun 24, 2017 15:15:19 GMT -5
I am not overseeing a nation. When religious leaders give bad advice from the platform the people suffer. So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer. And the overseers and workers and certain friends have also caused a lot of suffering. I remember hearing Edgar Massey at convention when he was in the work. A very decent man with good thoughts. Gentle and caring. Yet he still got excommunicated.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 24, 2017 22:19:53 GMT -5
Do you have a big brother or sister or even anyone that you have spoken against let alone you are speaking against now? If you say no then that would be untrue because you do it a lot on this board, It's all very well to rail on someone then try to excuse yourself of doing the same yourself so i'm judging you as being a hypocrite. Speak, -except that when Walker1903 does so, -it doesn't carry the authority to "excommunicate" anyone.
That is where the harm come in with workers doing so.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 24, 2017 22:38:21 GMT -5
Thank you, Walker, for linking us to the Massy's story.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2017 0:13:20 GMT -5
I am not overseeing a nation. When religious leaders give bad advice from the platform the people suffer. So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer. How would you suffer?
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Post by speak on Jun 25, 2017 2:09:29 GMT -5
So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer. How would you suffer? With your incessant whinning, sound like an Australian. Like fingernails on a blackboard.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2017 2:13:30 GMT -5
With your incessant whinning, sound like an Australian. Like fingernails on a blackboard. If you don't like it and can't take it then don't give it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 25, 2017 2:46:14 GMT -5
I am not overseeing a nation. When religious leaders give bad advice from the platform the people suffer. So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer.
Speak, did you read the Massey's story?
I am posting just the beginning of their story. Go to the link that walker gave for the rest of their story. Liberation by Exodus for the Swedish Massey family 2001
( Here is a picture of their home. It never can get pictures to copy for some reason)
Our home at the time in the Swedish countryside There was a Sunday meeting here for 19 years.
Preface
I am making the effort to record this experience, mostly for the sake of my family as, to me, it is important family history – I hope it will never be forgotten . All my 6 children were ‘born into’ the unique culture of 2x2ism. (albeit the youngest was only 1 year old when we, as a family, were rejected from the group) Admittedly, I was the driving force in the process – however each of the children, and most of all my dear wife, where traumatically affected by the enormous distress in our entire household at that time – and by the ensuing unpleasantness of the slander and purging campaigns that cult leadership put into force against us after the initial expulsion. A significant portion of the social community we all had trusted, consequently, in a collective and obvious demonstrative manner turned their backs on us, and haven’t shown their faces since. I was aware that this would be the unpleasant consequence, but it came as an extreme disappointment to my family -- they experienced it as 'friendship betrayed'!
Perspective has proven the beautiful hand of God in it all, as he has gently but firmly led us – but at the time it was difficult to understand how it could ever develop into anything positive for the family. I hope that in the future my family will always be thankful for the wonderful story of this deliverance. Except for this experience, we would likely still be captives in this ‘Egypt like culture’, forcefully ‘encouraged’ by a powerful (but self appointed) leadership to produce ‘more and more bricks with less and less clay’!!
Background
My credentials in 2x2ism were likely as impeccable as exist in the 2x2 measurement system. I was born and raised under the full influence of the system. Grew up with wonderful parents in a 'hearty' professing family – all of the 6 of us children and families were ‘professing’ at the time of our exit. My dad could trace the beginning of his involvement to Edward Cooney in Ireland – There had been a Sunday meeting in our family home from the time I was born (in 1946) – to the present day, 60 years later. I ‘professed’ when I was 10 – finished my schooling and then went ‘into the work’ when I was 19. I spent 8 years in the work in Saskatchewan – and then was sent to Sweden where I spent another 8 years in the work. In the work, I enjoyed a rather ‘favoured status’ which earned me considerable ‘privilege and responsibility’. This means that I don’t have much for unpleasant memories of that time – I was continually immersed in the many different forms of cult indoctrination – so I sincerely believed in what I was doing.
To make a long story short, in 1981 I fell in love with a girl that came to our meetings, and decided to leave the work and get married. This caused a bit of a fuss in the group at the time – but the fuss subsided fairly quickly as we established an ‘open home’ (which are very very scarce in Sweden). Our home quickly became a ‘grand central station’ for worker activity – and continued to be so for the next 20 years – (even through the family tragedy of the passing of the mother of my oldest girl – and my subsequent remarriage). We had a meeting in our home (had workers living with our family a large part of the time)– went to all available gospel meetings – multiple special meetings and several conventions each year. Looking back on it we were quite ‘high profile 2x2ers’ – and for the most part enjoyed it.
Speak, If you haven't read their story completely through, -then you have no idea of what Eldon Knudsen did and you also have no idea what "suffering" really means.
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Post by snow on Jun 25, 2017 12:04:09 GMT -5
So what? You may in fact have a bigger audience than an overseer. But it doesn't seem to matter to you that you and your words maybe causing us to suffer.
Speak, did you read the Massey's story?
I am posting just the beginning of their story. Go to the link that walker gave for the rest of their story. Liberation by Exodus for the Swedish Massey family 2001
( Here is a picture of their home. It never can get pictures to copy for some reason)
Our home at the time in the Swedish countryside There was a Sunday meeting here for 19 years.
Preface
I am making the effort to record this experience, mostly for the sake of my family as, to me, it is important family history – I hope it will never be forgotten . All my 6 children were ‘born into’ the unique culture of 2x2ism. (albeit the youngest was only 1 year old when we, as a family, were rejected from the group) Admittedly, I was the driving force in the process – however each of the children, and most of all my dear wife, where traumatically affected by the enormous distress in our entire household at that time – and by the ensuing unpleasantness of the slander and purging campaigns that cult leadership put into force against us after the initial expulsion. A significant portion of the social community we all had trusted, consequently, in a collective and obvious demonstrative manner turned their backs on us, and haven’t shown their faces since. I was aware that this would be the unpleasant consequence, but it came as an extreme disappointment to my family -- they experienced it as 'friendship betrayed'!
Perspective has proven the beautiful hand of God in it all, as he has gently but firmly led us – but at the time it was difficult to understand how it could ever develop into anything positive for the family. I hope that in the future my family will always be thankful for the wonderful story of this deliverance. Except for this experience, we would likely still be captives in this ‘Egypt like culture’, forcefully ‘encouraged’ by a powerful (but self appointed) leadership to produce ‘more and more bricks with less and less clay’!!
Background
My credentials in 2x2ism were likely as impeccable as exist in the 2x2 measurement system. I was born and raised under the full influence of the system. Grew up with wonderful parents in a 'hearty' professing family – all of the 6 of us children and families were ‘professing’ at the time of our exit. My dad could trace the beginning of his involvement to Edward Cooney in Ireland – There had been a Sunday meeting in our family home from the time I was born (in 1946) – to the present day, 60 years later. I ‘professed’ when I was 10 – finished my schooling and then went ‘into the work’ when I was 19. I spent 8 years in the work in Saskatchewan – and then was sent to Sweden where I spent another 8 years in the work. In the work, I enjoyed a rather ‘favoured status’ which earned me considerable ‘privilege and responsibility’. This means that I don’t have much for unpleasant memories of that time – I was continually immersed in the many different forms of cult indoctrination – so I sincerely believed in what I was doing.
To make a long story short, in 1981 I fell in love with a girl that came to our meetings, and decided to leave the work and get married. This caused a bit of a fuss in the group at the time – but the fuss subsided fairly quickly as we established an ‘open home’ (which are very very scarce in Sweden). Our home quickly became a ‘grand central station’ for worker activity – and continued to be so for the next 20 years – (even through the family tragedy of the passing of the mother of my oldest girl – and my subsequent remarriage). We had a meeting in our home (had workers living with our family a large part of the time)– went to all available gospel meetings – multiple special meetings and several conventions each year. Looking back on it we were quite ‘high profile 2x2ers’ – and for the most part enjoyed it.
Speak, If you haven't read their story completely through, -then you have no idea of what Eldon Knudsen did and you also have no idea what "suffering" really means.
In some ways the denial of suffering of those that left and got shunned or got excommunicated is the same as the great faith that is required to believe the impossible. It is a survival instinct in a way. It is important to them that their way is right and if they consider the suffering or the negatives about their chosen church or religion then this brings them anxiety and their feeling of being saved and safe is challenged. I can see why they do it, it's self protection in a way. Can't blame them too much. After all it's why they believe in religion in the first place. They need it and I don't challenge that. We all have different levels of comfort with chaos and the believers are more comfortable with believing there is an all loving omnipotent being that loves then and cares for them.
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