Post by PrueBert on May 5, 2017 6:55:55 GMT -5
Complaints about people having their pictures posted on this board have gone unheeded. Complaints about my own graphics
led to them being deleted because they offend delicate sensitivities.
Some of these quotes are from old threads, some of which have been bumped to Page 1. I apologize if they are not current.
There's more bald-face lies than usual in this batch!
I found R.Bowden's judgement that we make little mention of the triumph of the resurrection, quote "if you regularly read
convention notes or gems you will rarely ever see it mentioned." This is a fitting reminder to anyone who wants to know what
we mean by 'wrong hands' with the highly filtered internet offerings.
Most hilarious quote.
Funniest quotes.
Oldies but goldies for 2008
Unanswered Questions
Best Missing-The-Point quote.
Most interesting quotes.
Most revealing quote.
Best unsubstantiated quotes.
Please note: I have some 1600 + quotes - the following quotes are a sample.
Best contradictions to date:
• They can’t agree on anything.
• They all think the same.
• Nothing ever changes
• They change all the time
• Believe they are the only ones saved.
• They can’t tell if they are saved.
• They are blinded by their feelings of self importance.
• Too taken up with personal humility.
• Obsessed with works
• Morally lazy.
• Live like royalty and never lift a finger
• Work themselves to the bone for nothing
• Most of them have TV’s.
• Shun those who have TV’s.
• Will not survive beyond the next ten years (written 2007)
• The church is becoming another Megachurch
• Workers don’t speak long enough in meetings
• Workers speak too long in meetings
• Old Testament stories of mass murder show God is unjust.
• Bible stories are fables.
• The Secret Sect book put the kybosh on the "Shores of Galilee" claim.
• After the Secret Sect published the overseers pushed the "Shores of Galilee" confusion.
• Turn Workers graves into shrines.
• Neglect Workers graves.
•
• Enforce a dress code.
• Don't bother to enforce a dress code.
• Their doctrine varies from one place to the next.
• ...the system won't change in one area and not the rest of the world.....they all want to be "unified."
• Initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings in the 1960’s or 1970’s.
• The quietness before the meetings came from Victorian attitudes towards respect.
• Invented the quietness program out of reverence because people in meetings in the preceding time zone would, at that moment, be partaking of the emblems.
• Early Christians didn't meet in homes
• Early Christians met in homes for fear of the Jews
• Jesus is not mentioned at funerals except in hymns.
• Don’t talk about the deceased at funerals, only Jesus.
• Conventions don’t have proper amenities
• Some conventions now have elaborate amenities
• Conventions have become sacred sites
• You would think the convention grounds were just farms.
• Stand at gospel mission exits to gain handouts
• Stand at gospel mission exits to turn exes away
• Workers don’t care about the problems of the friends
• Workers spend too much time in the personal lives/business of the friends.
• Friends don't visit former members who are dying
• Friends visit former members in hospital to save their own dirty conscience
• Can’t get outsiders to attend missions.
• They have strict rules to keep outsiders away.
• Too organized and too authoritative
• Can't organize themselves in a fit.
• Too much focus upon Paul and not enough on Jesus
• Too much on Jesus and not enough on God
• They dress like they are stuck in the morass of dowdiness.
• Their girls show bare legs and cleavage which Christians of any denomination should not approve of.
• Spit on the divorce and remarriage in every meeting as part of worship, as is officially written into their doctrine.
• Men Workers like to stay with attractive divorced women.
• Workers act as confidants instead of wise counsel or directing them to a marriage counsellor, mental health professional or financial planner.
• Don’t spend time with the sick
• Workers don’t accept alternative sexual ideas
• The Work is a natural gravitating point for homosexuals
• Workers flee from adversity
• Workers tell about their sacrifices
• Worker’s preaching is too simplistic
• Workers have made the gospel too complicated.
• Believe good works don't count towards salvation.
• They believe they are saved through good works.
• Workers don’t preach anything outside the bible
• Workers tell too many personal stories
• They can’t live without their Workers
• Most people enjoy times when the Workers are out of town
• They are indoctrinated by the Workers.
• Most indoctrination is done through mothers rather than Workers.
• Men are chauvinistic woman-haters because they offer thanks for emblems
• Women are spiritually lazy for not offering thanks for emblems
• They suffer from loneliness
• 2x2s have ready made friends without exertion.
• They join the fellowship to have happy marriages.
• They fake happy marriages.
• People repeat themselves in meetings.
• People are pressured to have something new in the meeting.
• Young friends marry young to avoid the Work.
• Young people join the Work to gain Worker approval.
• Don’t read their bible.
• Refuse any reading material other than their bible.
• They are not allowed to swim on Saturdays.
• They are not allowed to swim on Sundays
• The “friend" is the attractor, and the "Worker" is the preacher.
• Friends serve to repulse, rather than attract.
• Friends reject the internet
• They preach on the Internet.
• Parents upset about their children going into the Work.
• Parents pressure children into the Work.
• Professing men look at women top down because they are used to long skirts.
• The men FIRST looked all the way up her pretty short-skirt legs BEFORE they developed a frown of disapproval on their faces.
• Friends shun those who leave
• Friends try to make exes feel guilty by continuing grace towards them.
• Worker control keeps the Truth from falling apart
• Worker control is the reason the Truth is falling apart
• Become obese because eating is the one physical pleasure that is allowed by the Leadership.
• Stay slim to have that certain "professing" image
• Irvine was Communistic
• Irvine put the fear of Communism into people to convert them
• Membership started falling in the 1960’s
• Membership started falling with the internet in the late 1990’s
• Meetings don’t mention Jesus
• All they do is talk about Jesus
• Workers allow the singles to source Christian mates from other churches, thus providing new blood for outcross bloodlines.
• Workers won't allow friends to marry outside the church
• They are dying out
• They pack them in like sardines.
• They don't read their bibles.
• They try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written in their hearts.
• The church is becoming more like mainstream churches
• The church is becoming more like a cult
• Gospel mission congregations are shrinking.
• Some stopped attending Gospel meetings because they are large and lack intimacy.
• Are a bunch of dejected, self deprecating people trying to compete for last position.
• Too taken up with wanting the top position.
Funniest winners to date:
• They would use First Century terminology and language if they descended from the Apostles.
• Quirks from an "ex" could be traced to their professing upbringing
• In the mid 70s, the ministry changed from "seeking the lost souls" to "keeping what we have".
• "convention stew" wasn't mentioned in the bible
• Friends had no actual fellowship - just games, chatting or movies. They were enthusiastic about a bible study, until we mentioned it to the sister worker.
• They are against cremation. They'd never thought there would be nothing but dust and/or ashes anyway.
• Some keep a copy of the Jehovah Witness bible to hand so they can refer to the 'correct rendering.'
• Modern workers have more money in their pockets then some of the young friends have, thus that is a pull… top brand clothing and undergarments.
• Young people offering for the work think giving up of all was simply being in the road all the time, plus they saw the glory and honor bestowed on the workers
• The 1987 censorship (aka new hymn book) lowered my Savior's status.
• Jesus preferred camping to spare bedrooms and already used bedrooms
• Priests are pastors and it mentions them. It doesn't mention conventions, trusts, or microfones, not being married, putting your hair up… It doesn't mention hymns old and new. It does mention healing the sick and signs following those who believe but the workers don't follow this.
• They insult Christ by thinking their workers live and minister as Jesus did
• All preachers in the NT clearly weren't itinerant. Most of the apostles lived in and around Jerusalem in their homes with their wives and families.
• Mock the concept that a baby could be born with a sinful nature
• Members can believe anything they like about Jesus provided they uphold the ministry.
• The Workers elicit devotion through sympathy for their homelessness, like con artists and sales people do.
• They theologically weakened "When I survey the Wondrous Cross" by replacing Christ my God with Christ my Lord.
• The majority of testimonies at convention and special meeting are about the workers.
• These are people weak in faith that need rules and structure as guardrails for their lives.
• Any F&W who believes that a soul could be saved outside of their church gets their name added to a watch list.
• Workers are the priority for many over Jesus because they see Christ as being only a sinless man.
• Workers are not renowned for preaching on core Christian doctrine
• Rather than believing babies are born with a sinful nature the fellowship believes in an age of accountability around 12 years old
• They became secretive after some 1913 lawsuits accused them of slave trafficking sister workers.
• Professing was all about joining the group, adopting the look, and believing in the ministry, NOT about repentance from sin and faith in Christ.
• Workers say that Jesus is "just my elder brother."
• There's a 'spanking room'? This was a building near the main meeting shed where parents could take their kids and beat them.
• Overseers are neck-deep in real estate deals.
• Irvine's followers expected him to return from heaven - the ultimate result of focusing on the messenger instead of the message.
• Workers don't get called Father or Reverend but Mr. This a contraction for 'Master.'
• A number of 2x2 Royalty with no visible means of income, have in fact extremely out of proportion spending habits.
• The two by twos try to rewrite the Bible and history to reflect their practices today.
• brothers worker and sisters workers replacing glasses with contacts.
• Many of these old folks mean well. They are nearing the end of the journey and fear a "lost eternity" if they think too deep about their sacred beliefs.
• ... convention workers flee to their quarters.
• The workers have their version of the KJ Bible but unlike the JWs they are afraid to print it.
• Workers salt slugs.
• The F&W church is not a registered entity for tax compliance.
• I've stopped believing in a pass/fail system.
• Male workers apparently have to wear gold-toe socks. It's like one of those unwritten rules I think.
• The Truth fellowship meetings originated from England in the late 1800s and seems to be stuck in the traditions of that era. From the quiet room, handshake after meeting, to the dress code, black bible cases and dark suites…
• Folks make sure the beer bottles in the fridge are concealed when the workers come.
• One of the justifications that the workers will use is that the workers not having a home are cheaper to maintain.
• One worker stated … if you read funny papers from the newspaper on Sunday after fellowship meetings you were DEAD
• The only thing that the "J-O-Y" sermon produces, if taken to heart, is a bunch of dejected, self deprecating people trying to compete for last position. It is difficult to detect the joyful glint in that setup.
• Perhaps in the next 50 years, machine sheds will be history, and people will be saying, "Free at last, free at last."
• … the first workers begin to realize "hey, we're going to need to make some of our new converts into supporters for us." And thus the lower level of "friends or saints" was formed.
• There have been a number of death threats recorded (by the Workers) but no evidence that murder has yet taken place.
• … the norm in the meetings -Watching TV programs outside electrical shopfronts so that you can pretend you have a TV at school/work.
• One of the tenets of one organization is "get the new inductee to do something illegal, no matter how minor, and they are yours." This is basically how it works in the work.
• Workers ally themselves with sycophantic princes and princesses. The princes and princesses lord it over the peasants and have no care and no mercy towards them.
• (There are) certain diets, vitamins, and health practices used among the friends and workers. These are done so that professing folks stay slim and have that certain "professing" image.
• Moral assassinations are generally malicious gossip produced when competition is perceived for a professing privilege, and one professing person REALLY wants to win.
• There are more rules/pressures for professing females than for professing males. This could be due to there being more females than males - the bigger the group, the more competition to be noticed by others.
• Faith Mission was started by the founder being highly influenced by the Holiness movement. It's not surprising, with the Irvine using Faith Mission's style, that 2x2 women resemble Holiness women. Sort of a parent/child resemblance.
• My folks are comfortably off but weren't rich enough to be considered good enough to be associated with (the 2x2’s)
• I knew of workers who would visit friends' homes (including elders homes) when no one was home and go through closets and drawers and then later confront them with their findings.
• The arrogant, evil workers are not trash from the past.... They are a very real and present danger.
• … now that the workers have amassed lots of money, the friends are expendable.
• The term "this way" has become popular in recent years.
• I even heard somebody give a testimony about the "diverse temptations" being mermaids. Figure that one out.
• Some old school workers and friends still preach and teach that being happy is a sign of something wrong in your service to the Lord.
• Mr. Wm. Irvine is the Standard
• "Preaching of the cross?" Few workers do that and even those who do hardly touch on the subject.
• (There are) many indirect references to Jesus in meetings - that I found strange because why the avoidance of using his actual name.
• Try to convince an outsider that workers don't really have homes when they spend so much time on the convention grounds
• I don't think our particular form of doing church is anywhere to be found in Acts.
• Last big change in U.S. that I heard was no more praying into the chairs.
• (re definition of the “narrow way”) A narrow way, so narrow every person must walk it one at a time. No loving God would decree that people be stoned for any reason.
• The F&Ws have all the latest devices so they no longer have a "competitive advantage" on the supposed holiness that comes from not having a TV.
• It looks like people like to still have a sort of priesthood. That is an old notion that has stayed with us. A notion likely, again, preserved by the Catholic Church and handed to the protestants. So the workers hung on to it also.
• (re ownership of a TV) … inspired jealousy in those who did not possess such things. Jealousy, the green eyed monster is what needed preaching against and not every novel item of technology. IMO.
• It would seem in the Christian dimension there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Try to get a worker or much less an overseer to leave conventions to go and help one person. I have tried. I get the same response with several overseers. "Too busy"
• When a senior worker asserted that King James English is "honorific English" it seemed best to leave him in his ignorance
• I think one thing I did not learn while in the fellowship and that was the desperate need to pray that God would increase my faith in Jesus Christ
• A worker once said to me "our usefulness is in fitting in". That could be said for any dictatorship.
• The Joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• Most 2x2s wouldn't stop to help like the Samaritan did -- it would make them late for gospel meeting
• 2x2 sister workers are too homely to attract mates
• Workers asked us to trade bedrooms because they felt ours was warmer than theirs.
• It's unfortunate that we have to rely on the hymns to keep Jesus in the meetings.
• What God has preserved in our Bible hardly compares to what a few people have researched about the church history
• Peasants in South America who brought bread in from the fields to meetings, which was far richer and more wholesome than the workers got from their (King James's) bibles
• I get frustrated when I hear preachers begging for money to support themselves and the missions abroad
• Newsflash! Jesus was God; the word made flesh. Workers are just, well...workers.
• Workers over here back in the 60's believed they were Jesus in the 20th century. After all, he was only a man....and well...so are we!
• Seems like I remember there is a worker that owns some oil wells in Texas.
• The fact that the original 12 didn't go out 2x2 probably explains why there is no evidence that 2x2 was part of the Acts of the Apostles.
• I submit they (workers) are referring to their choice to be celibate ministers is what gives them their alleged special revelation and authority.
• I would imagine that skipping gospel meetings is sending a pretty strong message to some of the workers. If people aren't willing to go listen to the same ol' same ol', it won't be long before the homes open to them becomes fewer also.
• … facing one's fear with positive views/input is the way to overcome the false guilt that the professing woman's uniform has instilled in many women.
• It seems to me that the friends steer clear of scriptural discussions as they subconsciously realise that they will be out of their depth…
• We have heard different accounts of how dogs wouldn't bark when saints enter the meeting home
• I have personally attended many, hundreds, of gospel meetings where Christ was not mentioned at all.
• I know some women who wouldn’t shave under their arms without asking the workers permission first.
• Forcing children to eat is considered part of breaking their wills and teaching them to submit to parental authority. If they refuse or cannot, the workers view it as rebellion.
• They (the women) submit to the men of the group who tend to wear dark-colored clothes and carry black-covered King James Versions of the Bible.
• I think that fear of reprisal is a big reason for the turnout (at convention)
• Wasn't Willie Irvine a coal miner before he found the mother lode in the pockets of his followers?
• Yes, the 2x2's will continue. But in the end.....one will be left, the other taken.
• Workers drown cats.
• The 2x2 copy and paste bible is not in my library anymore.
• The fact is the more I focus on Christ, the less I go to the gospel meetings because I really don't hear about Him there. The more I focus on Jesus the less I want to go to Sunday AM meeting because He isn't the focus He needs to be.
• I suggested (to a worker) that you can never go wrong preaching about salvation. He looked at me like I had 3 eyeballs and said "that's a subject that would REALLY get me in trouble".
• In our town those who had the intention to get baptized used to get a list of do's and don’ts before they qualify
• (re workers) The friend's bedrooms are safer and more comfortable than the ghettos.
• freedom at last..........no workers peeking in the windows at my TV, or novel, or radio, or curling iron, etc
• The 2x2 church which I became a member of was an organisation. It had an HQ and a mailing address and produced a little book of member's names and telephone numbers
• (Workers live with) those who "open their homes", violating the trust, sanctity, sacred intimacy, and the sacred father and the sacred mother figure.
• After much prayer and meditation, it seemed to me that the one doing the baptism was God. The workers simply held my head in the creek.
• In the 1960’s or 1970’s the workers initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings.
• 70-something years old elder's wife quipped to our overseer, "Oh - pish! Do you think we women can't tell when a man has a hard-on through his jeans? Where is the modesty there?"
• Professing ladies' buns fall down in car accidents.
• Professing people deceive and advocate deceit when they pretend they drink alcohol by carrying round a half empty glass.
• New people coming to gospel meetings who endure off-key mournful singing are hardly going to view that "difference" as Godly, perhaps the opposite
• One person wasn't accepted into the work because of his teeth.
• 84 year old lady upset in confrontation with a worker for having family pictures instead of worker pictures on her piano.
• As a kid it embarrassed me that men carried their bibles and hymn books in handbags to Sunday meetings.
• Some are groomed to be workers because they may not be able to get real jobs or are too ugly to find a mate.
• Workers criticize clergy for wearing clerical garb but we see so many brother workers wearing tight, grey cardigans.
• In the olden days, the workers would have crashed a party on Saturday night.
• Professing boy streaked at the football game
• The workers do not claim to be "penniless." They were to get their money out of the "mouths of the fish they caught."
• I wanted to rip my clothes off and go outside to enjoy the day that God gave than sit in dressy clothes around a dining room table talking about workers.
• These days Workers delay baptizing teenagers to show the youth who is boss.
• Workers don’t raise the dead.
• In my 2x2 childhood cracking your knuckles was pure evil.
• A 2x2 child was told that black people are the curse of Ham for looking at Noah
• A Worker or Overseer said some ladies leaving a church wearing pant suits were surely going to hell
• Membership of the 2x2 way has increased only slightly or started to decline because God only requires 144,000 souls.
• Workers have cell phones. Jesus doesn't have a phone. You can just talk right to Him anytime, any place.
• George Peterson said Mary wrapped Jesus in swaddling clothing to deprive him of his human nature.
• Friend was told to pray for his former wife’s death rather than bother the workers with requests to remarry
• If you only need a building just once a year then your church is not very blessed by God.
• In recent times TV is okay by all accounts and watched in holes by workers.
• Professing lady stepped over her husband's body (not professing) to go to Sunday meeting
• Workers prevent people from bursting forth in the Holy Spirit by restricting their time to give testimonies.
Best cognitive dissonance quotes to date:
• The rich young ruler wasn't asking how to become an Apostle...he wanted eternal life
• As believers, our faith lies in a person, not in some kind of way that Jesus established.
• Re "Hyms Old & New. The workers took the name of their hymn book from someone else. They weren't the first to have the name. Why have a name anyway. They don't believe in names.
• I'll just stick to the facts and read the books on the 2x2s. (re conversation about the many books demonstrating Paul was the originator of Christianity)
• I think some workers and some friends are a bit naive as to the dangers that can befall human beings. This could be because they are a bit sheltered from the world and the realities of the world
• Yes, all the individual churches are one church.
• One way to enhance the value of an object is to make it a limited edition (or distribution, in this case). Perhaps that is the reason. (re “Why are convention speaking lists so “secretive”)
• The fellowship needs to encourage young people to enter by thanking workers when they leave.
• … exclusivity amongst the overseers is probably not an elephant in the room because it is the sacred cow.
• They never told me that the truth fellowship went back to the shores of Galilee. Of course it can be argued that they never told me it didn't, so therefore perpetuated a lie.
• the abomination is not in what they wear. It says what they do is the abomination.
• No Godly spirit has a spirit of criticism.
• The church in the home, and the preacher without a home" is not what saves us. Salvation is knowing God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, hearing and obeying God's word.
• "The true church" is not in the Bible.
• I don't care for Bert's lists very much because it seems like he uses them to degrade people.
• William Irvine founded the F&W's sect upon the Matthew 10 principle. Some other Christian churches are founded upon the chief corner stone, Jesus Christ
• The vast majority of what you see as contradictions are not. They are merely two separate true statements sitting side by side.
• If workers preached Jesus only then it wouldn't matter about the history (of Irvine).
• And there is a lot of bare leg and cleavage. Young women are quite sexy, which I don't think Christians of any denomination would approve of.
• It was Paul and not the BIBLE who said what he said about woman's subjection and several other things related to women.
• It's amazing how many people will try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written on our hearts.
• (Regards copying the example of the New Testament church) A copy is a counterfeit. I prefer the real thing.
• (In reply to “Workers often ask the friends to have brief testimonies”) and this is another way workers show they are more important than everyone else because they don't have to condense their thoughts to fit into 1 or 2 minutes.
• The same fear that keeps so many young folks from going into the work often keeps workers from leaving the work.
• There was a high level of sell about going into the work. Single people were targeted with the message of considering the noblest thing in life… To not consider going into the work, if you were young and single, was almost tantamount to going against God's will for your life… A quite subtle recruiting campaign …
• The only way that the worker way cares about the inside of a person is that they have to make themselves meek, child-like, willing, with a soft heart, all of which means being open to conforming to the worker rules and then they call this conforming the work of God on a person's life.
• God does not do religion
• God wants me to look like the world except modest to show a difference by His Spirit, not by outward appearance.
• Just because a pastor gets paid doesn't make him a hireling.
• Workers should never talk about what is wasting time if they are not prepared to offer lots of activities that makes time productive.
• With a Sunday meeting, a Wednesday meeting and two gospel meetings the friends don't have a chance to let the spirit of Christ work.
• I sometimes spoke about my disbelief in the trinity in the meeting. The workers warned me to believe in the trinity or go, so I went.
• Convention buildings and land belong to the workers. But it is not on a deed so therefore there is no tracing of it.
• They are stupid in wanting proof for what is clearly hearsay against them.
• Being ignorant of secret happenings within 2x2ism is a form of evidence there is something secret going on.
• Every member is aware of the suppression system, but part of being 'faithful', is denying that you are aware of it.
• The Bible says few find eternal life and this lead some of the 2x2’s to believe they are in the “narrow way” because they are few in number.
Most revealing quotes.
• can't even imagine relying on TMB for a helpful therapeutic experience! Granted, it is cheap--but you are likely getting what you pay for --very little that will assist or uplift most people here.
• I'm hearing the "Will of God" preached a lot from workers holding gospel meetings. Anybody have an idea what this means?
• Paul's writings are FOR THE MOST PART compassionate and helpful.
• I see little in the sheep nature which is commendable.
• Seems Paul is the ruler of Christianity, eh? Everthing in Christian denominations gets measured by Paul's thoughts and commands.
• The history of the church has been recorded by those who are no longer members.
• Irvine founded the organization, not the method.
• The preaching of the workers was entertainment. These days, TV and movies are more entertaining
• Perhaps Jesus erred in pushing the Messiah idea...or perhaps his disciples so admired him that they erred in pushing the Messiah title upon him.
• If you take your doctrine only from the New Testament, your doctrine is going to be incomplete.
• There are lots of examples of Luke's imagination gone wild, but I confess it's the crazy impossibilities of Acts that taints my view of Luke as much as anything.
• Paul's invention, I think we can agree, was more radical than Irvine's.
• Anything that diminishes love is ungodly and deceitful -- including the hopeless religious attempts of bible-toter's to build and maintain love on the foundation of a marriage certificate
• God in the Old Testament did not have a great track record with the physical side of things.
• Several books of the bible seem to have been written under the influence of some sort of hallucinogenic.
• The flawed premise states that the 1st century church is the perfect pattern which is to be emulated in all details for all time. This is one of the primary fundamentals of the F&W church.
• 2x2's can be as wicked as they want to be when they get on the internet boards and don’t have to show respect.
led to them being deleted because they offend delicate sensitivities.
Some of these quotes are from old threads, some of which have been bumped to Page 1. I apologize if they are not current.
There's more bald-face lies than usual in this batch!
I found R.Bowden's judgement that we make little mention of the triumph of the resurrection, quote "if you regularly read
convention notes or gems you will rarely ever see it mentioned." This is a fitting reminder to anyone who wants to know what
we mean by 'wrong hands' with the highly filtered internet offerings.
Most hilarious quote.
I was walking to a meeting once, about 80km (50 miles) and hoping for a lift. A couple of workers went by and did not
bother stopping. An old gold miner picked me up in a death trap of an old bomb and delivered me to that meeting. curlywurlysammagee
bother stopping. An old gold miner picked me up in a death trap of an old bomb and delivered me to that meeting. curlywurlysammagee
Funniest quotes.
I have had several workers say to me that they have the keys to heaven, or they hold the keys to heaven. curlywurlysammagee
I'm interested in what reproach do you experience as a 2x2? (apart from on TMB because reproach against a pseudonym doesn't count). R.Bowden
For some reason this reminds me so much of a worker coming up on a group of people talking and laughing at convention, and wanting to stop
them having fun immediately. E.Coleman
Re the 1100 commands, plus the power of example, in the New Testament. "Also bear in mind that he was talking to legalistic people (much as
I do when I talk with "Orthodox 2x2s")" ipsedixit
I'm interested in what reproach do you experience as a 2x2? (apart from on TMB because reproach against a pseudonym doesn't count). R.Bowden
For some reason this reminds me so much of a worker coming up on a group of people talking and laughing at convention, and wanting to stop
them having fun immediately. E.Coleman
Re the 1100 commands, plus the power of example, in the New Testament. "Also bear in mind that he was talking to legalistic people (much as
I do when I talk with "Orthodox 2x2s")" ipsedixit
Oldies but goldies for 2008
“Judy” in 2008 won First Prize with the 2008 Freudian Award with this gem to Cherie Kropp:
"May the poisonous arrows drop to the ground, leaving you unharmed.”
Simply being counted among them (2x2's) was causing us to lose sleep at night. The example we were setting for our children was heart
breaking. Frank.
"May the poisonous arrows drop to the ground, leaving you unharmed.”
Simply being counted among them (2x2's) was causing us to lose sleep at night. The example we were setting for our children was heart
breaking. Frank.
Unanswered Questions
Can you answer this? "When will polyamory, polygamy and pederasty be given the rubric of "secular ethics"? " Dmmichgood
Fixit quote - "One argument for not recording sermons is that revelation is progressive (and time and place specific).e.g. a worker might
believe differently today than he believed 20 years ago, in which case he won't appreciate fault finding ex-members dissecting his every word.
Bert - Interesting. Can you provide any evidence for this? Can you name a doctrine and a particular Worker as an example of a wholesale doctrinal
change? Fixit
Fixit quote - "One argument for not recording sermons is that revelation is progressive (and time and place specific).e.g. a worker might
believe differently today than he believed 20 years ago, in which case he won't appreciate fault finding ex-members dissecting his every word.
Bert - Interesting. Can you provide any evidence for this? Can you name a doctrine and a particular Worker as an example of a wholesale doctrinal
change? Fixit
Best Missing-The-Point quote.
… they don't want to be recorded. We've been told to burn notes by a worker as well. Odd way to spread God's message far and wide.
It's cute the lengths they go to pretend they are the persecuted chosen few. ipsedixit
It's cute the lengths they go to pretend they are the persecuted chosen few. ipsedixit
Most interesting quotes.
Exes have left what Irvine started so sorry to disappoint you but you are the one who is following what Irvine started. Exes followed
in another direction far away from the confines of Irvineism. Enuf
… 2x2's generally oppose church hopping between Christian organisations. And the Christian who brands the 2x2 as exclusive, yet opposes
church hopping between synagogue, mosque and temple somehow deceives themselves they are not exclusive. A good example of cognitive dissonance -
also representative of the Fifty shades of Grey spectrum. Joanna.
… there are quite a few people who had complete faith in one teaching and now have gone on to have complete faith in a different teaching…
at some point people were 100% certain they were correct and are now 100% certain they are correct now. How long will it be before they are
100% certain the next belief is the correct one? Rational.
Re God's Grace - It just seems to be some self-placating, very specific yet imaginary concept that sounds good in theory, but has no practical
or evidenced effects. Joanna (May 2016)
…the oldest-longest lasting worker in Atlantic Canada, Jim Abbott, stated clearly and emphatically even recently that without grace we have
nothing at all. B.Wilson
I … learnt about William Irvine, Eddie Cooney and many other early workers from an old lady who knew them personally… I'd sit with her and
husband in the evenings… and she would tell of those early days! … It wasn't about William Irvine or Eddie Cooney! It was inspired and moved
forward by the Holy Spirit working in the dozens and hundreds of lives in many countries in the early decades of the 20th century. Many didn't
have the 'public profile' of Willie Gill, George Walker, the Carroll brothers, Wilson Reid, Wilson and Annie McClung… hundreds are perhaps mostly
forgotten and relatively unknown now in our present generation… our fellowship is not about Gill, Walker, Carrolls, Irvine, Reid, Hughes, Cooney,
McClungs... Review June12, 2015 in the "What we know about Edward Cooney" thread.
I cannot believe a God of love would want his creation to bow down, feel like they are unworthy or have to plead for forgiveness or compassion. Snow
the church created creeds to help people understand the doctrine because people weren't literate back then. Magpie
… it's "spiritual truths" that are subject to change. B.Wilson
Our Lord is now our way truth and life and friend, redeemer, blessed assurance, no longer merely a fellowship of any sort. D.Jacobsen
in another direction far away from the confines of Irvineism. Enuf
… 2x2's generally oppose church hopping between Christian organisations. And the Christian who brands the 2x2 as exclusive, yet opposes
church hopping between synagogue, mosque and temple somehow deceives themselves they are not exclusive. A good example of cognitive dissonance -
also representative of the Fifty shades of Grey spectrum. Joanna.
… there are quite a few people who had complete faith in one teaching and now have gone on to have complete faith in a different teaching…
at some point people were 100% certain they were correct and are now 100% certain they are correct now. How long will it be before they are
100% certain the next belief is the correct one? Rational.
Re God's Grace - It just seems to be some self-placating, very specific yet imaginary concept that sounds good in theory, but has no practical
or evidenced effects. Joanna (May 2016)
…the oldest-longest lasting worker in Atlantic Canada, Jim Abbott, stated clearly and emphatically even recently that without grace we have
nothing at all. B.Wilson
I … learnt about William Irvine, Eddie Cooney and many other early workers from an old lady who knew them personally… I'd sit with her and
husband in the evenings… and she would tell of those early days! … It wasn't about William Irvine or Eddie Cooney! It was inspired and moved
forward by the Holy Spirit working in the dozens and hundreds of lives in many countries in the early decades of the 20th century. Many didn't
have the 'public profile' of Willie Gill, George Walker, the Carroll brothers, Wilson Reid, Wilson and Annie McClung… hundreds are perhaps mostly
forgotten and relatively unknown now in our present generation… our fellowship is not about Gill, Walker, Carrolls, Irvine, Reid, Hughes, Cooney,
McClungs... Review June12, 2015 in the "What we know about Edward Cooney" thread.
I cannot believe a God of love would want his creation to bow down, feel like they are unworthy or have to plead for forgiveness or compassion. Snow
the church created creeds to help people understand the doctrine because people weren't literate back then. Magpie
… it's "spiritual truths" that are subject to change. B.Wilson
Our Lord is now our way truth and life and friend, redeemer, blessed assurance, no longer merely a fellowship of any sort. D.Jacobsen
Most revealing quote.
The meeting in the home is not for preaching the gospel, it's for fellowship.
And the workers have preached the gospel in "churches/synagogues", prisons -- and if you include the invitation to hear, in casinos. B.Wilson
Some lovely verses there Speak. "By faith you/we are saved through Grace", fantastic assurance. Sadly though so many overlook the next step in
our journey, "Faith without works is dead". Magpie
And the workers have preached the gospel in "churches/synagogues", prisons -- and if you include the invitation to hear, in casinos. B.Wilson
Some lovely verses there Speak. "By faith you/we are saved through Grace", fantastic assurance. Sadly though so many overlook the next step in
our journey, "Faith without works is dead". Magpie
Best unsubstantiated quotes.
William Irvine had a "divine revelation" about a few parts of a specific set of instructions given to 70 who were seeking the lost sheep
of Israel for one mission. 120 years later, we have to make internet forums to detox from this nonsense. ipsedixit
How great the Father's love that He would send His Son to die in our place and to rise again to give us life beyond the grave. Death has been
defeated - the grave has been conquered! That's the gospel. Sadly, if you regularly read convention notes or gems you will rarely ever see it
mentioned. R.Bowden
… we asked of a senior worker (still preaching) before we moved churches. His response which my wife still mentions occasionally was "we can't
talk about Jesus all the time. We have moved on from just preaching about Jesus." R.Bowden
A relative was excommunicated because he failed in business (put on the you are going to hell list) Magpie
One argument for not recording sermons is that revelation is progressive (and time and place specific).
e.g. a worker might believe differently today than he believed 20 years ago, in which case he won't appreciate fault finding ex-members dissecting
his every word. Fixit
Bert to Rational - How so? Was Psalm 22 written after Jesus? (the suffering and crucifixion Psalm)
No, the text was there but the interruption (sic) was applied after Jesus. Rational.
of Israel for one mission. 120 years later, we have to make internet forums to detox from this nonsense. ipsedixit
How great the Father's love that He would send His Son to die in our place and to rise again to give us life beyond the grave. Death has been
defeated - the grave has been conquered! That's the gospel. Sadly, if you regularly read convention notes or gems you will rarely ever see it
mentioned. R.Bowden
… we asked of a senior worker (still preaching) before we moved churches. His response which my wife still mentions occasionally was "we can't
talk about Jesus all the time. We have moved on from just preaching about Jesus." R.Bowden
A relative was excommunicated because he failed in business (put on the you are going to hell list) Magpie
One argument for not recording sermons is that revelation is progressive (and time and place specific).
e.g. a worker might believe differently today than he believed 20 years ago, in which case he won't appreciate fault finding ex-members dissecting
his every word. Fixit
Bert to Rational - How so? Was Psalm 22 written after Jesus? (the suffering and crucifixion Psalm)
No, the text was there but the interruption (sic) was applied after Jesus. Rational.
Please note: I have some 1600 + quotes - the following quotes are a sample.
Best contradictions to date:
• They can’t agree on anything.
• They all think the same.
• Nothing ever changes
• They change all the time
• Believe they are the only ones saved.
• They can’t tell if they are saved.
• They are blinded by their feelings of self importance.
• Too taken up with personal humility.
• Obsessed with works
• Morally lazy.
• Live like royalty and never lift a finger
• Work themselves to the bone for nothing
• Most of them have TV’s.
• Shun those who have TV’s.
• Will not survive beyond the next ten years (written 2007)
• The church is becoming another Megachurch
• Workers don’t speak long enough in meetings
• Workers speak too long in meetings
• Old Testament stories of mass murder show God is unjust.
• Bible stories are fables.
• The Secret Sect book put the kybosh on the "Shores of Galilee" claim.
• After the Secret Sect published the overseers pushed the "Shores of Galilee" confusion.
• Turn Workers graves into shrines.
• Neglect Workers graves.
•
• Enforce a dress code.
• Don't bother to enforce a dress code.
• Their doctrine varies from one place to the next.
• ...the system won't change in one area and not the rest of the world.....they all want to be "unified."
• Initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings in the 1960’s or 1970’s.
• The quietness before the meetings came from Victorian attitudes towards respect.
• Invented the quietness program out of reverence because people in meetings in the preceding time zone would, at that moment, be partaking of the emblems.
• Early Christians didn't meet in homes
• Early Christians met in homes for fear of the Jews
• Jesus is not mentioned at funerals except in hymns.
• Don’t talk about the deceased at funerals, only Jesus.
• Conventions don’t have proper amenities
• Some conventions now have elaborate amenities
• Conventions have become sacred sites
• You would think the convention grounds were just farms.
• Stand at gospel mission exits to gain handouts
• Stand at gospel mission exits to turn exes away
• Workers don’t care about the problems of the friends
• Workers spend too much time in the personal lives/business of the friends.
• Friends don't visit former members who are dying
• Friends visit former members in hospital to save their own dirty conscience
• Can’t get outsiders to attend missions.
• They have strict rules to keep outsiders away.
• Too organized and too authoritative
• Can't organize themselves in a fit.
• Too much focus upon Paul and not enough on Jesus
• Too much on Jesus and not enough on God
• They dress like they are stuck in the morass of dowdiness.
• Their girls show bare legs and cleavage which Christians of any denomination should not approve of.
• Spit on the divorce and remarriage in every meeting as part of worship, as is officially written into their doctrine.
• Men Workers like to stay with attractive divorced women.
• Workers act as confidants instead of wise counsel or directing them to a marriage counsellor, mental health professional or financial planner.
• Don’t spend time with the sick
• Workers don’t accept alternative sexual ideas
• The Work is a natural gravitating point for homosexuals
• Workers flee from adversity
• Workers tell about their sacrifices
• Worker’s preaching is too simplistic
• Workers have made the gospel too complicated.
• Believe good works don't count towards salvation.
• They believe they are saved through good works.
• Workers don’t preach anything outside the bible
• Workers tell too many personal stories
• They can’t live without their Workers
• Most people enjoy times when the Workers are out of town
• They are indoctrinated by the Workers.
• Most indoctrination is done through mothers rather than Workers.
• Men are chauvinistic woman-haters because they offer thanks for emblems
• Women are spiritually lazy for not offering thanks for emblems
• They suffer from loneliness
• 2x2s have ready made friends without exertion.
• They join the fellowship to have happy marriages.
• They fake happy marriages.
• People repeat themselves in meetings.
• People are pressured to have something new in the meeting.
• Young friends marry young to avoid the Work.
• Young people join the Work to gain Worker approval.
• Don’t read their bible.
• Refuse any reading material other than their bible.
• They are not allowed to swim on Saturdays.
• They are not allowed to swim on Sundays
• The “friend" is the attractor, and the "Worker" is the preacher.
• Friends serve to repulse, rather than attract.
• Friends reject the internet
• They preach on the Internet.
• Parents upset about their children going into the Work.
• Parents pressure children into the Work.
• Professing men look at women top down because they are used to long skirts.
• The men FIRST looked all the way up her pretty short-skirt legs BEFORE they developed a frown of disapproval on their faces.
• Friends shun those who leave
• Friends try to make exes feel guilty by continuing grace towards them.
• Worker control keeps the Truth from falling apart
• Worker control is the reason the Truth is falling apart
• Become obese because eating is the one physical pleasure that is allowed by the Leadership.
• Stay slim to have that certain "professing" image
• Irvine was Communistic
• Irvine put the fear of Communism into people to convert them
• Membership started falling in the 1960’s
• Membership started falling with the internet in the late 1990’s
• Meetings don’t mention Jesus
• All they do is talk about Jesus
• Workers allow the singles to source Christian mates from other churches, thus providing new blood for outcross bloodlines.
• Workers won't allow friends to marry outside the church
• They are dying out
• They pack them in like sardines.
• They don't read their bibles.
• They try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written in their hearts.
• The church is becoming more like mainstream churches
• The church is becoming more like a cult
• Gospel mission congregations are shrinking.
• Some stopped attending Gospel meetings because they are large and lack intimacy.
• Are a bunch of dejected, self deprecating people trying to compete for last position.
• Too taken up with wanting the top position.
Funniest winners to date:
• They would use First Century terminology and language if they descended from the Apostles.
• Quirks from an "ex" could be traced to their professing upbringing
• In the mid 70s, the ministry changed from "seeking the lost souls" to "keeping what we have".
• "convention stew" wasn't mentioned in the bible
• Friends had no actual fellowship - just games, chatting or movies. They were enthusiastic about a bible study, until we mentioned it to the sister worker.
• They are against cremation. They'd never thought there would be nothing but dust and/or ashes anyway.
• Some keep a copy of the Jehovah Witness bible to hand so they can refer to the 'correct rendering.'
• Modern workers have more money in their pockets then some of the young friends have, thus that is a pull… top brand clothing and undergarments.
• Young people offering for the work think giving up of all was simply being in the road all the time, plus they saw the glory and honor bestowed on the workers
• The 1987 censorship (aka new hymn book) lowered my Savior's status.
• Jesus preferred camping to spare bedrooms and already used bedrooms
• Priests are pastors and it mentions them. It doesn't mention conventions, trusts, or microfones, not being married, putting your hair up… It doesn't mention hymns old and new. It does mention healing the sick and signs following those who believe but the workers don't follow this.
• They insult Christ by thinking their workers live and minister as Jesus did
• All preachers in the NT clearly weren't itinerant. Most of the apostles lived in and around Jerusalem in their homes with their wives and families.
• Mock the concept that a baby could be born with a sinful nature
• Members can believe anything they like about Jesus provided they uphold the ministry.
• The Workers elicit devotion through sympathy for their homelessness, like con artists and sales people do.
• They theologically weakened "When I survey the Wondrous Cross" by replacing Christ my God with Christ my Lord.
• The majority of testimonies at convention and special meeting are about the workers.
• These are people weak in faith that need rules and structure as guardrails for their lives.
• Any F&W who believes that a soul could be saved outside of their church gets their name added to a watch list.
• Workers are the priority for many over Jesus because they see Christ as being only a sinless man.
• Workers are not renowned for preaching on core Christian doctrine
• Rather than believing babies are born with a sinful nature the fellowship believes in an age of accountability around 12 years old
• They became secretive after some 1913 lawsuits accused them of slave trafficking sister workers.
• Professing was all about joining the group, adopting the look, and believing in the ministry, NOT about repentance from sin and faith in Christ.
• Workers say that Jesus is "just my elder brother."
• There's a 'spanking room'? This was a building near the main meeting shed where parents could take their kids and beat them.
• Overseers are neck-deep in real estate deals.
• Irvine's followers expected him to return from heaven - the ultimate result of focusing on the messenger instead of the message.
• Workers don't get called Father or Reverend but Mr. This a contraction for 'Master.'
• A number of 2x2 Royalty with no visible means of income, have in fact extremely out of proportion spending habits.
• The two by twos try to rewrite the Bible and history to reflect their practices today.
• brothers worker and sisters workers replacing glasses with contacts.
• Many of these old folks mean well. They are nearing the end of the journey and fear a "lost eternity" if they think too deep about their sacred beliefs.
• ... convention workers flee to their quarters.
• The workers have their version of the KJ Bible but unlike the JWs they are afraid to print it.
• Workers salt slugs.
• The F&W church is not a registered entity for tax compliance.
• I've stopped believing in a pass/fail system.
• Male workers apparently have to wear gold-toe socks. It's like one of those unwritten rules I think.
• The Truth fellowship meetings originated from England in the late 1800s and seems to be stuck in the traditions of that era. From the quiet room, handshake after meeting, to the dress code, black bible cases and dark suites…
• Folks make sure the beer bottles in the fridge are concealed when the workers come.
• One of the justifications that the workers will use is that the workers not having a home are cheaper to maintain.
• One worker stated … if you read funny papers from the newspaper on Sunday after fellowship meetings you were DEAD
• The only thing that the "J-O-Y" sermon produces, if taken to heart, is a bunch of dejected, self deprecating people trying to compete for last position. It is difficult to detect the joyful glint in that setup.
• Perhaps in the next 50 years, machine sheds will be history, and people will be saying, "Free at last, free at last."
• … the first workers begin to realize "hey, we're going to need to make some of our new converts into supporters for us." And thus the lower level of "friends or saints" was formed.
• There have been a number of death threats recorded (by the Workers) but no evidence that murder has yet taken place.
• … the norm in the meetings -Watching TV programs outside electrical shopfronts so that you can pretend you have a TV at school/work.
• One of the tenets of one organization is "get the new inductee to do something illegal, no matter how minor, and they are yours." This is basically how it works in the work.
• Workers ally themselves with sycophantic princes and princesses. The princes and princesses lord it over the peasants and have no care and no mercy towards them.
• (There are) certain diets, vitamins, and health practices used among the friends and workers. These are done so that professing folks stay slim and have that certain "professing" image.
• Moral assassinations are generally malicious gossip produced when competition is perceived for a professing privilege, and one professing person REALLY wants to win.
• There are more rules/pressures for professing females than for professing males. This could be due to there being more females than males - the bigger the group, the more competition to be noticed by others.
• Faith Mission was started by the founder being highly influenced by the Holiness movement. It's not surprising, with the Irvine using Faith Mission's style, that 2x2 women resemble Holiness women. Sort of a parent/child resemblance.
• My folks are comfortably off but weren't rich enough to be considered good enough to be associated with (the 2x2’s)
• I knew of workers who would visit friends' homes (including elders homes) when no one was home and go through closets and drawers and then later confront them with their findings.
• The arrogant, evil workers are not trash from the past.... They are a very real and present danger.
• … now that the workers have amassed lots of money, the friends are expendable.
• The term "this way" has become popular in recent years.
• I even heard somebody give a testimony about the "diverse temptations" being mermaids. Figure that one out.
• Some old school workers and friends still preach and teach that being happy is a sign of something wrong in your service to the Lord.
• Mr. Wm. Irvine is the Standard
• "Preaching of the cross?" Few workers do that and even those who do hardly touch on the subject.
• (There are) many indirect references to Jesus in meetings - that I found strange because why the avoidance of using his actual name.
• Try to convince an outsider that workers don't really have homes when they spend so much time on the convention grounds
• I don't think our particular form of doing church is anywhere to be found in Acts.
• Last big change in U.S. that I heard was no more praying into the chairs.
• (re definition of the “narrow way”) A narrow way, so narrow every person must walk it one at a time. No loving God would decree that people be stoned for any reason.
• The F&Ws have all the latest devices so they no longer have a "competitive advantage" on the supposed holiness that comes from not having a TV.
• It looks like people like to still have a sort of priesthood. That is an old notion that has stayed with us. A notion likely, again, preserved by the Catholic Church and handed to the protestants. So the workers hung on to it also.
• (re ownership of a TV) … inspired jealousy in those who did not possess such things. Jealousy, the green eyed monster is what needed preaching against and not every novel item of technology. IMO.
• It would seem in the Christian dimension there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Try to get a worker or much less an overseer to leave conventions to go and help one person. I have tried. I get the same response with several overseers. "Too busy"
• When a senior worker asserted that King James English is "honorific English" it seemed best to leave him in his ignorance
• I think one thing I did not learn while in the fellowship and that was the desperate need to pray that God would increase my faith in Jesus Christ
• A worker once said to me "our usefulness is in fitting in". That could be said for any dictatorship.
• The Joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• Most 2x2s wouldn't stop to help like the Samaritan did -- it would make them late for gospel meeting
• 2x2 sister workers are too homely to attract mates
• Workers asked us to trade bedrooms because they felt ours was warmer than theirs.
• It's unfortunate that we have to rely on the hymns to keep Jesus in the meetings.
• What God has preserved in our Bible hardly compares to what a few people have researched about the church history
• Peasants in South America who brought bread in from the fields to meetings, which was far richer and more wholesome than the workers got from their (King James's) bibles
• I get frustrated when I hear preachers begging for money to support themselves and the missions abroad
• Newsflash! Jesus was God; the word made flesh. Workers are just, well...workers.
• Workers over here back in the 60's believed they were Jesus in the 20th century. After all, he was only a man....and well...so are we!
• Seems like I remember there is a worker that owns some oil wells in Texas.
• The fact that the original 12 didn't go out 2x2 probably explains why there is no evidence that 2x2 was part of the Acts of the Apostles.
• I submit they (workers) are referring to their choice to be celibate ministers is what gives them their alleged special revelation and authority.
• I would imagine that skipping gospel meetings is sending a pretty strong message to some of the workers. If people aren't willing to go listen to the same ol' same ol', it won't be long before the homes open to them becomes fewer also.
• … facing one's fear with positive views/input is the way to overcome the false guilt that the professing woman's uniform has instilled in many women.
• It seems to me that the friends steer clear of scriptural discussions as they subconsciously realise that they will be out of their depth…
• We have heard different accounts of how dogs wouldn't bark when saints enter the meeting home
• I have personally attended many, hundreds, of gospel meetings where Christ was not mentioned at all.
• I know some women who wouldn’t shave under their arms without asking the workers permission first.
• Forcing children to eat is considered part of breaking their wills and teaching them to submit to parental authority. If they refuse or cannot, the workers view it as rebellion.
• They (the women) submit to the men of the group who tend to wear dark-colored clothes and carry black-covered King James Versions of the Bible.
• I think that fear of reprisal is a big reason for the turnout (at convention)
• Wasn't Willie Irvine a coal miner before he found the mother lode in the pockets of his followers?
• Yes, the 2x2's will continue. But in the end.....one will be left, the other taken.
• Workers drown cats.
• The 2x2 copy and paste bible is not in my library anymore.
• The fact is the more I focus on Christ, the less I go to the gospel meetings because I really don't hear about Him there. The more I focus on Jesus the less I want to go to Sunday AM meeting because He isn't the focus He needs to be.
• I suggested (to a worker) that you can never go wrong preaching about salvation. He looked at me like I had 3 eyeballs and said "that's a subject that would REALLY get me in trouble".
• In our town those who had the intention to get baptized used to get a list of do's and don’ts before they qualify
• (re workers) The friend's bedrooms are safer and more comfortable than the ghettos.
• freedom at last..........no workers peeking in the windows at my TV, or novel, or radio, or curling iron, etc
• The 2x2 church which I became a member of was an organisation. It had an HQ and a mailing address and produced a little book of member's names and telephone numbers
• (Workers live with) those who "open their homes", violating the trust, sanctity, sacred intimacy, and the sacred father and the sacred mother figure.
• After much prayer and meditation, it seemed to me that the one doing the baptism was God. The workers simply held my head in the creek.
• In the 1960’s or 1970’s the workers initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings.
• 70-something years old elder's wife quipped to our overseer, "Oh - pish! Do you think we women can't tell when a man has a hard-on through his jeans? Where is the modesty there?"
• Professing ladies' buns fall down in car accidents.
• Professing people deceive and advocate deceit when they pretend they drink alcohol by carrying round a half empty glass.
• New people coming to gospel meetings who endure off-key mournful singing are hardly going to view that "difference" as Godly, perhaps the opposite
• One person wasn't accepted into the work because of his teeth.
• 84 year old lady upset in confrontation with a worker for having family pictures instead of worker pictures on her piano.
• As a kid it embarrassed me that men carried their bibles and hymn books in handbags to Sunday meetings.
• Some are groomed to be workers because they may not be able to get real jobs or are too ugly to find a mate.
• Workers criticize clergy for wearing clerical garb but we see so many brother workers wearing tight, grey cardigans.
• In the olden days, the workers would have crashed a party on Saturday night.
• Professing boy streaked at the football game
• The workers do not claim to be "penniless." They were to get their money out of the "mouths of the fish they caught."
• I wanted to rip my clothes off and go outside to enjoy the day that God gave than sit in dressy clothes around a dining room table talking about workers.
• These days Workers delay baptizing teenagers to show the youth who is boss.
• Workers don’t raise the dead.
• In my 2x2 childhood cracking your knuckles was pure evil.
• A 2x2 child was told that black people are the curse of Ham for looking at Noah
• A Worker or Overseer said some ladies leaving a church wearing pant suits were surely going to hell
• Membership of the 2x2 way has increased only slightly or started to decline because God only requires 144,000 souls.
• Workers have cell phones. Jesus doesn't have a phone. You can just talk right to Him anytime, any place.
• George Peterson said Mary wrapped Jesus in swaddling clothing to deprive him of his human nature.
• Friend was told to pray for his former wife’s death rather than bother the workers with requests to remarry
• If you only need a building just once a year then your church is not very blessed by God.
• In recent times TV is okay by all accounts and watched in holes by workers.
• Professing lady stepped over her husband's body (not professing) to go to Sunday meeting
• Workers prevent people from bursting forth in the Holy Spirit by restricting their time to give testimonies.
Best cognitive dissonance quotes to date:
• The rich young ruler wasn't asking how to become an Apostle...he wanted eternal life
• As believers, our faith lies in a person, not in some kind of way that Jesus established.
• Re "Hyms Old & New. The workers took the name of their hymn book from someone else. They weren't the first to have the name. Why have a name anyway. They don't believe in names.
• I'll just stick to the facts and read the books on the 2x2s. (re conversation about the many books demonstrating Paul was the originator of Christianity)
• I think some workers and some friends are a bit naive as to the dangers that can befall human beings. This could be because they are a bit sheltered from the world and the realities of the world
• Yes, all the individual churches are one church.
• One way to enhance the value of an object is to make it a limited edition (or distribution, in this case). Perhaps that is the reason. (re “Why are convention speaking lists so “secretive”)
• The fellowship needs to encourage young people to enter by thanking workers when they leave.
• … exclusivity amongst the overseers is probably not an elephant in the room because it is the sacred cow.
• They never told me that the truth fellowship went back to the shores of Galilee. Of course it can be argued that they never told me it didn't, so therefore perpetuated a lie.
• the abomination is not in what they wear. It says what they do is the abomination.
• No Godly spirit has a spirit of criticism.
• The church in the home, and the preacher without a home" is not what saves us. Salvation is knowing God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, hearing and obeying God's word.
• "The true church" is not in the Bible.
• I don't care for Bert's lists very much because it seems like he uses them to degrade people.
• William Irvine founded the F&W's sect upon the Matthew 10 principle. Some other Christian churches are founded upon the chief corner stone, Jesus Christ
• The vast majority of what you see as contradictions are not. They are merely two separate true statements sitting side by side.
• If workers preached Jesus only then it wouldn't matter about the history (of Irvine).
• And there is a lot of bare leg and cleavage. Young women are quite sexy, which I don't think Christians of any denomination would approve of.
• It was Paul and not the BIBLE who said what he said about woman's subjection and several other things related to women.
• It's amazing how many people will try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written on our hearts.
• (Regards copying the example of the New Testament church) A copy is a counterfeit. I prefer the real thing.
• (In reply to “Workers often ask the friends to have brief testimonies”) and this is another way workers show they are more important than everyone else because they don't have to condense their thoughts to fit into 1 or 2 minutes.
• The same fear that keeps so many young folks from going into the work often keeps workers from leaving the work.
• There was a high level of sell about going into the work. Single people were targeted with the message of considering the noblest thing in life… To not consider going into the work, if you were young and single, was almost tantamount to going against God's will for your life… A quite subtle recruiting campaign …
• The only way that the worker way cares about the inside of a person is that they have to make themselves meek, child-like, willing, with a soft heart, all of which means being open to conforming to the worker rules and then they call this conforming the work of God on a person's life.
• God does not do religion
• God wants me to look like the world except modest to show a difference by His Spirit, not by outward appearance.
• Just because a pastor gets paid doesn't make him a hireling.
• Workers should never talk about what is wasting time if they are not prepared to offer lots of activities that makes time productive.
• With a Sunday meeting, a Wednesday meeting and two gospel meetings the friends don't have a chance to let the spirit of Christ work.
• I sometimes spoke about my disbelief in the trinity in the meeting. The workers warned me to believe in the trinity or go, so I went.
• Convention buildings and land belong to the workers. But it is not on a deed so therefore there is no tracing of it.
• They are stupid in wanting proof for what is clearly hearsay against them.
• Being ignorant of secret happenings within 2x2ism is a form of evidence there is something secret going on.
• Every member is aware of the suppression system, but part of being 'faithful', is denying that you are aware of it.
• The Bible says few find eternal life and this lead some of the 2x2’s to believe they are in the “narrow way” because they are few in number.
Most revealing quotes.
• can't even imagine relying on TMB for a helpful therapeutic experience! Granted, it is cheap--but you are likely getting what you pay for --very little that will assist or uplift most people here.
• I'm hearing the "Will of God" preached a lot from workers holding gospel meetings. Anybody have an idea what this means?
• Paul's writings are FOR THE MOST PART compassionate and helpful.
• I see little in the sheep nature which is commendable.
• Seems Paul is the ruler of Christianity, eh? Everthing in Christian denominations gets measured by Paul's thoughts and commands.
• The history of the church has been recorded by those who are no longer members.
• Irvine founded the organization, not the method.
• The preaching of the workers was entertainment. These days, TV and movies are more entertaining
• Perhaps Jesus erred in pushing the Messiah idea...or perhaps his disciples so admired him that they erred in pushing the Messiah title upon him.
• If you take your doctrine only from the New Testament, your doctrine is going to be incomplete.
• There are lots of examples of Luke's imagination gone wild, but I confess it's the crazy impossibilities of Acts that taints my view of Luke as much as anything.
• Paul's invention, I think we can agree, was more radical than Irvine's.
• Anything that diminishes love is ungodly and deceitful -- including the hopeless religious attempts of bible-toter's to build and maintain love on the foundation of a marriage certificate
• God in the Old Testament did not have a great track record with the physical side of things.
• Several books of the bible seem to have been written under the influence of some sort of hallucinogenic.
• The flawed premise states that the 1st century church is the perfect pattern which is to be emulated in all details for all time. This is one of the primary fundamentals of the F&W church.
• 2x2's can be as wicked as they want to be when they get on the internet boards and don’t have to show respect.