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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 15:01:08 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds?
To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer.
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Post by speak on Apr 30, 2016 21:52:49 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds? To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer. They are the servants of the living God.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 1, 2016 1:07:15 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds? To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer. They are the servants of the living God. They are human being the same as every one else !
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Post by breakfree on May 1, 2016 2:39:20 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds? To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer. They are the servants of the living God. speak, please define servants of the living God..
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Post by speak on May 1, 2016 4:15:53 GMT -5
They are the servants of the living God. They are human being the same as every one else ! Still servants of the living God.
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Post by speak on May 1, 2016 4:18:08 GMT -5
They are the servants of the living God. speak, please define servants of the living God.. One who works for God.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 1, 2016 4:42:14 GMT -5
They are human being the same as every one else ! Still servants of the living God. No better than anyone else ! Exactly what are servants of the living God ? So the servants of the living God that abuse children are they working for God ?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 4:43:29 GMT -5
By the way, the question of love has not been answered, it has been completely ignored, derailed into another argument altogether; many in all sorts of religeous denominations claim to be servants of God- the Pope,the Archbishop of Canterbury, priests, pastors, Immans etc. Are they loved? Of course I believe that they are all loved by many of their flock even if not all, and that applies to the F&W fellowship as well. There aught to be unity of purpose in serving Almighty God not a battle ground for religeous division and hatred, scorn, shunning and all that nonsense. GOD Is LOVE, LOVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE KINGDOM'S BANNER. LOVE ONE ANOTHER, FOR GOD'S SAKE: PEOPLE. Ps. Do your best on earth and leave final judgement to God when the time comes.
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Post by fixit on May 1, 2016 4:48:17 GMT -5
Still servants of the living God. No better than anyone else ! Exactly what are servants of the living God ? So the servants of the living God that abuse children are they working for God ? I'm reminded of the following scripture... Some workers and friends advocate respect and obedience toward false prophets (known by their fruit). Are they accountable to God for that?
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Post by breakfree on May 1, 2016 17:09:26 GMT -5
Ok par taker, about the question of love for the workers....I do have my favourites...those that I think truly care for the souls of men ...who are like shepherds...I love them..and it is always good to have them around...they care and do show it in their actions!
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Post by emy on May 1, 2016 19:08:35 GMT -5
Just like any other person, we are commanded to love their souls. Human to human love? Not always so clear.
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Post by magpie on May 2, 2016 2:09:52 GMT -5
Speak,you say 2x2 are servants of the living God. I cannot see that. As the living God I know would not Exclude others of christian faith into His Heaven by saying they follow false religions. (As christianity is one Religion),He would not allow His disciples (servants)to cover up criminal CHILD SEX ABUSES and Adultries for decades,He would want compassion,Pastoring,love,understanding and prayer,for the destroyed lives and innocence of little children.Allowing children to sit in meetings and conventions listening to the pseudo only way from the perpetrator/s,(nearly 70 years ago I was in that situation,never wanted to go to those two sick deviants heaven). He would say to His Disciples"THOU SHALL NOT JUDGE"yet the 2x2s since inception have a terrible history of excommunications,ostracisms and hateful gossip. Now our State has had a registered ("incorporated" as denominational group and charity) name (documented) since 1930. The name has varied a litte but was a continuance ,it was used when they (then as Christian Assemblies of Australia,inc) sold up their convention ground to developers and portion as freeway,1970s.They don't follow the Living God's commands,because they would not directly ever admit to this,yet, it got into the media. People,so blinded, were saying,"It can't be us those people have a name and we have no property". Now did my living God send the State Bishop to court with an expensive criminal psychologist to get "TWELVE MORE VICTIMs COMPLAINTS WITHELD FROM COURT" so the mentally disordered peadophile could have his jail sentence suspended? (people say Ernie Barry (the perpetraror) has something over the current Bishop. Why didn't he a few months later do the same for Chris Chandler(12 victims,youngest "9 ") who has now finished his jail sentence? Sending these sexual perpetrators over seas or interState,has been a practice of 2x2 sect,to offend again in a fresh field.Stephen Schultz a junior,was in very recent years put out of the work (in South Australia) because he laid charges against an old loved senior deviants sexual indescretions. "WHY? Because how could they explain the old bloke/guy they all loved was a sexual predator.Easier to say Stephen still really wasn't ready,that is an act of a pseudo living God, as mine would not lay such on the Bishops heart.Sorry but so much more can be said,1 Corinthians 9,v,5+,Havn't I the right to follow the example of other Apostles and the Lords brothers and Peter,by taking a christian wife with me on my travel. Or are Barnabas and I the only ones who have to work for our living? ''''Demanded celibacy is unbiblical. And Hair? Is 2x2s following the Middle Eastern traditions (law)of Judaism or Islam? And do 2x2 brides have 10 pieces of silver on their wedding vales? Don't fall into the trap of asking questions that conflict with 2x2s Irvine theology without a strong witness. Or your questions will be unrecognisable when they hit the gossip tree,by then you will be branded as over the decades as so many have as unwilling and/or a trouble maker. Remember 2x2s flog the witness of two (another law,tradition& Religious Hebrew demand in the Middle East in Jesus era. Dear Speak would love you to get to know my Living God,the one who hands out Grace for free.
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Post by breakfree on May 2, 2016 9:11:10 GMT -5
speak, please define servants of the living God.. One who works for God. Does God need people to WORK for Him?
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Post by magpie on May 2, 2016 19:15:35 GMT -5
http://www.christianpost.com>opinion
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Post by magpie on May 2, 2016 19:33:12 GMT -5
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 2, 2016 21:51:39 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds? To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer. They are the servants of the living God. If that is the case then why do they behave like spoilt brats and despots? Some of the overseers like Alan Richardson must be beside themselves with how some of their workers carry on.
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Post by reallyandtruly on May 3, 2016 14:55:50 GMT -5
They are the servants of the living God. If that is the case then why do they behave like spoilt brats and despots? Some of the overseers like Alan Richardson must be beside themselves with how some of their workers carry on. Well I guess they are people with human natures so they are not perfect (although people seem to think they should be) Im am just wondering Curly how long it is since you spent any significant time with a NZ worker, had one to stay in your home (other than a relative), actively participated at convention and generally moved and mingled with the workers. As to Walkers question, shouldn't we as Christians show love to all? I repect those that command respect and in the case of NZ workers -that is the greater majority. On the whole an awesome bunch.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 3, 2016 15:01:09 GMT -5
I have not spent more than an hour or so with a worker over the last twenty years or so. I no longer consider myself a Christian nor any other religion. That does not stop me loving people. I was not aware that one had to be Christian to do so.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:54:26 GMT -5
Maybe you learned your morality from others who were Christian? And when Christianity dies out, one might justify anything...if your neighbor says something you don't like, shoot him and hide...if there is no punishment beyond this life.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 4, 2016 4:06:17 GMT -5
Maybe you learned your morality from others who were Christian? And when Christianity dies out, one might justify anything...if your neighbor says something you don't like, shoot him and hide...if there is no punishment beyond this life. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Christians are no more moral or immoral than any other group and it would be pure fantasy of anyone to think that as a group they were any better than others.
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Post by reallyandtruly on May 4, 2016 6:52:13 GMT -5
They are the servants of the living God. If that is the case then why do they behave like spoilt brats and despots? Some of the overseers like Alan Richardson must be beside themselves with how some of their workers carry on. Well if you haven't spent any time with workers in the last 20 years, how are you qualified to make a statement like this.??
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 7:19:35 GMT -5
It is hard to find morality from an absence of belief. At least you admit that you might have learned morality from those in religion.
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Post by Brick on May 5, 2016 10:57:08 GMT -5
I get the impression that most workers keep enough distance from ordinary "professors" that they aren't really lovable. Having a relationship/friendship with one or more seems to be more of a networking prospect to raise one's status in the fellowship rather than anything deep and meaningful. On the reverse, do the workers love us? At convention, they separate themselves from us in every way possible. They don't eat, sleep, or sit with us in meetings. So how much love is there really going on?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 5, 2016 15:31:25 GMT -5
It is hard to find morality from an absence of belief. At least you admit that you might have learned morality from those in religion. I find it difficult to understand why you think that belief in God or a God is a prerequisite to being a moral person. Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. Thinking that they do so is in my view immoral.
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Post by withlove on May 5, 2016 21:27:24 GMT -5
Are the workers loved as people or worshiped as a group? Do the friends really love the workers as people? They worshiped them because they fear them. They fear losing privileges or salvation if they don't obey. But is there really love? Are men like Barry Barkley, Dale Shultz, Jerome Frandle, George Lee, and company loved? Do the friends feel more relaxed when these men are out of their fields and states on visiting rounds? To me, it is like a Justin Bieber fan who idolized JB but doesn't really know him on a personal level. If Barry, Jerome, or Dale were to leave the meetings, would they be loved? I think you know the answer. I have to ask if the four overseers were mentioned for specific reasons, or just a random sampling. I had, and have, genuine love for plenty of workers. Some of those same workers really hurt some people though. So I would understand if some feared rather than loved. It's easy to get love and worship mixed up. I saw a lot of that too.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 3:48:43 GMT -5
In my opinion, they are two types of love, 1/ conditional love and 2/ unconditional love.
Conditional love demands that certain conditions must be observed and satisfied. These conditions are usually set by man's interpretation of the Scriptures etc. Unconditional love applies when no conditions are enforced, that is, loving to/with every fault, loving no matter what.
Which type are you or which do you prefer? Remember, we are supposed to love one another. No doubt some one will point out that it is possible to love a person but hate their behaviour, and that is absolutely true. When I was a kid growing up we often heard the expression used: " he or she is a no good ***** but I love him/her and I even love the dirt that he or she walks on(unconditional love).
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 4:40:03 GMT -5
Still servants of the living God. No better than anyone else ! Exactly what are servants of the living God ? So the servants of the living God that abuse children are they working for God ? Technically that possibility exists if we look at it this way: an employee who steals from his employer undetected, is still working for that employer. ps. I hold the opinion that shepherds of the flock in some other religeous christian denominations are working fo God also. If they are not against Him, the must be for Him. He knows His own, even if we don't. ps.Nothing goes undetected by God,however, not in "any" church. God knows everything about us all.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 7, 2016 16:49:43 GMT -5
I get the impression that most workers keep enough distance from ordinary "professors" that they aren't really lovable. Having a relationship/friendship with one or more seems to be more of a networking prospect to raise one's status in the fellowship rather than anything deep and meaningful. On the reverse, do the workers love us? At convention, they separate themselves from us in every way possible. They don't eat, sleep, or sit with us in meetings. So how much love is there really going on? Are you not free to sit with them at a meal? Maybe a good opportunity to show them some unconditional love.
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