|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 22, 2015 19:26:11 GMT -5
Remember, I stated that those who had already found God, or found there was no God, this search isn't for you. That's especially true in this thread: If you're a full-fledged believer, nobody in the world can convince you the Bible ain't inerrant, and if you're not, then the Bible's problems are as blatantly obvious as the nose on your face. That's why I couldn't get interested in Faune's thread about contradictions in the Bible (sorry, Faune!) So let's get past that right up front: No arguing about whether the Bible is "true" if we're going to accomplish anything here.
So now I'm talking to neither conservative Christians nor Christian-bashing "new atheists". I think for the remaining crowd, the Bible can no longer be read like a history book, so dissing it is pointless. Let's consider it for what it is, not for what the fundamentalist thinks it is.
What does the Bible mean to you? Do you find that it opens up a feeling of spiritual well-being? If so, do your feelings about the Bible help explain how religion works, or do these feelings simply confuse matters? If the Bible is not a trigger, how about church buildings or Gospel hymns? (My own trigger is familiar f&w hymns...I get dizzy with emotion when I hear some of these favorites). Is there any difference between the Bible and the Book or Mormon or the Qur'an or any other holy book as far as its potency and influence over believers?
What makes the Bible tick? Any favorite authors or characters? Did the Bible's writers experience the same God as we do today?
|
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Dec 22, 2015 20:28:15 GMT -5
Remember, I stated that those who had already found God, or found there was no God, this search isn't for you. That's especially true in this thread: If you're a full-fledged believer, nobody in the world can convince you the Bible ain't inerrant, and if you're not, then the Bible's problems are as blatantly obvious as the nose on your face. That's why I couldn't get interested in Faune's thread about contradictions in the Bible (sorry, Faune!) So let's get past that right up front: No arguing about whether the Bible is "true" if we're going to accomplish anything here. So now I'm talking to neither conservative Christians nor Christian-bashing "new atheists". I think for the remaining crowd, the Bible can no longer be read like a history book, so dissing it is pointless. Let's consider it for what it is, not for what the fundamentalist thinks it is. What does the Bible mean to you? Do you find that it opens up a feeling of spiritual well-being? If so, do your feelings about the Bible help explain how religion works, or do these feelings simply confuse matters? If the Bible is not a trigger, how about church buildings or Gospel hymns? (My own trigger is familiar f&w hymns...I get dizzy with emotion when I hear some of these favorites). Is there any difference between the Bible and the Book or Mormon or the Qur'an or any other holy book as far as its potency and influence over believers? What makes the Bible tick? Any favorite authors or characters? Did the Bible's writers experience the same God as we do today? I still have a respect for the Bible, particularly the KJV, as that is where I first learned life truths (even though I have found the same truths in many other contexts in the years since) that guide me still today. I do not believe that there is anything particularly significant about any sacred writings in and of themselves. The only significance is brought to them is by lives sincerely lived, using them as a source of inspiration. Ohhhh… those hymns (and not just F&W ones either). It completely shocked me, several months after leaving 2X2ism, and hearing hymns playing, and feeling so profoundly moved. My initial response was “wtf? – I left all that behind”. It is something that I have come to accept and treasure in the years since. My iPod is full of hymns and hymn-like songs. I can remember catching part of an interview with Elton John saying “When in doubt, write a hymn.” I think it touches on something very deep in the human condition, not just people with a 2X2 background. |
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Dec 22, 2015 21:29:05 GMT -5
Its the Bible's iconoclasm that resonates with me whether we're talking about Jesus' departure from his own religious tradition as it's political elites defined it or the Jewish exodus from slavery in Egypt, a privilege that was subject to criticism and review.
|
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2015 23:30:27 GMT -5
For me, the Bible is an indispensable compilation of literature -- though not satisfactory as history. One should be literate in the Bible because it is very often used to characterize events in modern times. It's various books are much more understandable when explained by people of the culture who wrote them. The Qur'an is quite comparable to the Bible, though lacking in Paul's Greek theology because Muhammad wasn't familiar with that. But comparing the two of them, neither the Bible nor the Qur'an can compete with a modern sense of morality, though many try to make them work. The Book of Mormon (I've read every single word) sounds more like the OT than the Qur'an, but knowing the man who "received" it, it is easy to recognize it as a fictional justification of the political and social values of his time -- which for the Book of Mormon is much easier to do because it didn't appear in an ancient culture. None of them I would recommend as an introduction to their respective religions because most of their believers don't really know that much about them, and the most devout followers don't exactly follow their prescribed lifestyles. Valuable reading nonetheless. I derive most "comfort" from hymns of the style found in the Hymns Old and New -- but the tune provides as much of the enjoyment as the words. When I'm not so fond of the words, I can do well with just the tune. Music/singing makes it much easier to maintain a pensive/meditative state of mind. For some reason I was frequently moved around to another meeting so I could start the hymns there. Sometimes it was the best part of the meeting for me. Except for a few times when I couldn't stop laughing.  |
|
|
|
Post by TheHebrew on Dec 23, 2015 1:12:58 GMT -5
One of the first universal story concerns a convert
named Ruth. She married/lived among the Hebrew in Moab
I think a study of why she wanted to serve their
God and be with their people resonates worldwide
even today.
It is almost as though we can sense what she
sensed. Desiring to "have" what she had
Which appears to be true peace and rest
and a beautiful testimony of her.
It seems she saw the affects felt it in her heart and wanted to
fully embrace whatever it took to keep it near and dear to her.
Being a convert gives her testimony a lot of credibility, I nmyopinion
|
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 23, 2015 4:36:11 GMT -5
One of the first universal story concerns a convert named Ruth. She married/lived among the Hebrew in Moab I think a study of why she wanted to serve their God and be with their people resonates worldwide even today. It is almost as though we can sense what she sensed. Desiring to "have" what she had Which appears to be true peace and rest and a beautiful testimony of her. It seems she saw the affects felt it in her heart and wanted to fully embrace whatever it took to keep it near and dear to her. Being a convert gives her testimony a lot of credibility, I nmyopinion |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 6:46:33 GMT -5
One of the first universal story concerns a convert named Ruth. She married/lived among the Hebrew in Moab I think a study of why she wanted to serve their God and be with their people resonates worldwide even today. It is almost as though we can sense what she sensed. Desiring to "have" what she had Which appears to be true peace and rest and a beautiful testimony of her. It seems she saw the affects felt it in her heart and wanted to fully embrace whatever it took to keep it near and dear to her. Being a convert gives her testimony a lot of credibility, I nmyopinion Samuel I think... |
|
jj
Junior Member
Posts: 95 
|
Post by jj on Dec 23, 2015 8:53:18 GMT -5
I do appreciate the wisdom in the bible, and I can appreciate Jesus' teachings and the story of His life. But there's some things I just can't reconcile myself to, I guess I've always thought if there is a God then He is much greater and different than the Bible says.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hebrew on Dec 23, 2015 9:19:15 GMT -5
It was written and preserved for our benefit, thousands of years
ago. I think it speaks a universal message about
who the Hebrew people were and why they lived
Like they did, and it proceeds throughout the lives
all the way to the life and death of the promised
Christ/Messiah. Yet it leaves us with another
promise that we are still awaiting.
In the meanwhile, we have so much to learn
we will look forward to, and not worry about
what we do not know, there is a reason for
everything : past, present, & future. Imo
|
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 23, 2015 14:31:40 GMT -5
It was written and preserved for our benefit, thousands of years ago. I think it speaks a universal message about who the Hebrew people were and why they lived Like they did, and it proceeds throughout the lives all the way to the life and death of the promised Christ/Messiah. Yet it leaves us with another promise that we are still awaiting. In the meanwhile, we have so much to learn we will look forward to, and not worry about what we do not know, there is a reason for everything : past, present, & future. Imo What about the things we don't WANT to know? |
|
|
|
Post by Swarupa Warren on Dec 23, 2015 15:39:21 GMT -5
The O.t. reminds me of the so called Holy Wars.Reading some of the O.T. really has God as a very revengeful God, but it is interesting how the N. t. shares God as a loving God,LOVE that was the teaching of Jesus. But however in other religion:such as Buddhist love was taught. I love Christ, its the Christians that give me a problem. As well as the sects of Buddhism.
|
|
|
|
Post by swarupa on Dec 23, 2015 16:02:34 GMT -5
i FOUND since I was also raised with the reading of the King James Bible as history of its commissioning is fascinating.
The commissioning of the King James Bible took place in 1604 at the Hampton Court, conference out side of London, England.
The first edition appeared in 1611. The King James Version remains in the English Tongue. It decidedly affected our language and thought categories, and although produced in England for English Churches, mainly for the Anglican churches. It played a unique role in the historical development of America. .
However; the story behind the creation of this Bible translation is little known and reveals an amazing interplay of faith and politics, church and state. To understand what happened we need to go back to the world of the 17th century.
|
|
|
|
Post by Swarupa Warren on Dec 23, 2015 16:16:52 GMT -5
Kind James at the conference commission for a new translation. He insisted that the translation use old familiar terms and true to the originals. He appointment fifty of the nations finest language scholars and approved rules in carefully checking the results.
I have found interest in the forming of documents that i read. And yes inspiration from the King James translation. Especially the Palm's and Proverbs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 17:17:15 GMT -5
What does the Bible mean to you? For me now, the bible is merely a very large old book which sits at the bottom of a cupboard and which contains the names of my dead ancestors in the births, marriages and deaths sections inside the front cover. It is the only copy I now have of a book which I was once had multiple copies of, and which I once read, spoke about and listened to being spoken about, numerous times every week. However I no longer read the bible now. I pretty much share Bob's views in terms of both the Bible, the Qur'an and other religious books. I have often asked believers why I should pay any more attention to the bible than the Qur'an or any other religious book, and I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer. I have therefore come to the conclusion that great literary masterpiece that it is, and one which contains an interesting mix of good teaching, history, philosophy and myth, when it comes to the noble art of seeking truth, the bible is of no greater value than any other ancient religious book. What I have also come to realise is that for many believers, the bible has in fact usurped God and become their God itself. It is the bible that such believers really believe in. It is the bible that they look to to obtain their understanding of God. It is the bible that they rely on to determine who God is, what God thinks and what God's plan for all of us is, even for those who do not believe in him or in it. It is not God or Jesus whom such believers look to for guidance, but to the bible. It is not the laws of God, or the laws of science or the laws of nature which form the basis of their knowledge and understanding, but rather what it says in the bible. The idea that God doesn't really save your soul or doesn't really have the power to restore your amputated limb is quite unfathomable to them. So strong is their faith in the bible that they struggle to know where the bible ends and God begins. So strong is their trust in the bible they struggle to comprehend God outside of the character described in the bible. For them, the bible and God are indistinguishable. So much so that one might well ask the question that, if it wasn't for the bible could their God as they understand Him really exist? Matt10 |
|
|
|
Post by swarupa on Dec 23, 2015 17:20:52 GMT -5
really enjoy your post Matt 10 thank u
|
|
|
|
Post by Tobelieve on Dec 24, 2015 2:43:33 GMT -5
I believe if we learn what the bible is trying to
help us to understand and live by,
it would certain be well to do
|
|
|
|
Post by Hmmmm on Dec 24, 2015 3:03:19 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/678464 Imo What about the things we don't WANT to know?[/ Of course there are many things we don't want to know. But alas, it is much like seeing something we didn't want to see. There is an old song that describes such an event: "The Streek" |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 24, 2015 14:33:13 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/678464 Imo What about the things we don't WANT to know?[/ Of course there are many things we don't want to know. But alas, it is much like seeing something we didn't want to see. There is an old song that describes such an event: "The Streek" But the Streak is of no consequence. Lots of other things are. |
|
|
|
Post by Hmmmm on Dec 24, 2015 14:58:06 GMT -5
What about the things we don't WANT to know?[/ Of course there are many things we don't want to know. But alas, it is much like seeing something we didn't want to see. There is an old song that describes such an event: "The Streek" But the Streak is of no consequence. Lots of other things are. True, there are many things we don't want to know Some of them turn out to be vitally important later on |
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Dec 24, 2015 15:16:31 GMT -5
"Some things we don't want to know"
Translates: we don't want to hear what
Someone wants to tell us??
|
|
|
|
Post by faune on Dec 24, 2015 15:31:42 GMT -5
Remember, I stated that those who had already found God, or found there was no God, this search isn't for you. That's especially true in this thread: If you're a full-fledged believer, nobody in the world can convince you the Bible ain't inerrant, and if you're not, then the Bible's problems are as blatantly obvious as the nose on your face. That's why I couldn't get interested in Faune's thread about contradictions in the Bible (sorry, Faune!) So let's get past that right up front: No arguing about whether the Bible is "true" if we're going to accomplish anything here.
So now I'm talking to neither conservative Christians nor Christian-bashing "new atheists". I think for the remaining crowd, the Bible can no longer be read like a history book, so dissing it is pointless. Let's consider it for what it is, not for what the fundamentalist thinks it is. What does the Bible mean to you? Do you find that it opens up a feeling of spiritual well-being? If so, do your feelings about the Bible help explain how religion works, or do these feelings simply confuse matters? If the Bible is not a trigger, how about church buildings or Gospel hymns? (My own trigger is familiar f&w hymns...I get dizzy with emotion when I hear some of these favorites). Is there any difference between the Bible and the Book or Mormon or the Qur'an or any other holy book as far as its potency and influence over believers? What makes the Bible tick? Any favorite authors or characters? Did the Bible's writers experience the same God as we do today? ~ No offense taken regarding my thread about Contradictions found within the Bible. Actually, some of these contradictions are hard to dismiss by apologists, especially regarding the genealogies of Jesus which varies considerably between Matthew and Luke.  However, I would not include myself among those who adamantly consider the Bible to be totally inerrant or without error. I tend to share more progressive views in this area myself from my personal study of how the Bible came into being. For instance, researching the history of Early Christianity actually changed a number of my former views on the Bible in recent years. Along with what others shared, I do appreciate some of the old Hymns that have lived on down through the years ~ not so much the 2x2 hymns, but the classics within the Christian faith. The site below contains a number of my all time favorite hymns. www.unlockingthebible.org/most-popular-christian-hymns/ Most Popular Christian Hymns |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 24, 2015 22:25:16 GMT -5
But the Streak is of no consequence. Lots of other things are. True, there are many things we don't want to know Some of them turn out to be vitally important later on Shouldn't one know about vital things ahead of time? |
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Dec 25, 2015 1:04:20 GMT -5
True, there are many things we don't want to know Some of them turn out to be vitally important later on Shouldn't one know about vital things ahead of time? One could certainly wish that! Often we are off guard. (When we should have been prepared) i.e. : the wise virgins. |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 25, 2015 1:54:59 GMT -5
Shouldn't one know about vital things ahead of time? One could certainly wish that! Often we are off guard. (When we should have been prepared) i.e. : the wise virgins. You DO know why people don't WANT to know, though, don't you? |
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Dec 25, 2015 6:17:24 GMT -5
One could certainly wish that! Often we are off guard. (When we should have been prepared) i.e. : the wise virgins. You DO know why people don't WANT to know, though, don't you? What prevents us from knowing all things? Our main enemy would be "death" Yet we will have victory over death, which is our final victory entering into immortality I believe virtue far exceeds mortality/vice to the extent that light exceeds darkness Therefore anything that we don't or shouldn't know will disappear even as darkness disappears when exposed to the light. None the less , I do understand why we do not Want to know some things, even though Given virtue we can deal /discard what is not profitable to dwell on. Right? This is only my thoughts. |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 25, 2015 21:46:16 GMT -5
You DO know why people don't WANT to know, though, don't you? What prevents us from knowing all things? What prevents people from knowing EVERYTHING is pride, greed, self-righteousness, stupidity, insanity, insecurity -- our human condition, in short. what about torture? So the main enemy is not to be feared either. Now let me see -- what would blind virtue constitute? Sounds a bit like just doing everything one is told to do without knowing why. This sounds a bit ambiguous. Do you mean something like this: Someone doesn't know anything about salvation will, after the darkness of death dissipates, see clearly that salvation itself will also disappear. That only seems to be right is you don't know the difference between "knowing something" and "dwelling on it". So what do you think of the proposition that you don't let people learn things that will inconvenience yourself? |
|
|
|
Post by Yes on Dec 26, 2015 20:19:22 GMT -5
You DO know why people don't WANT to know, though, don't you?[/quote] Sorry I must have misunderstood your question, please share ?? Thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 26, 2015 22:30:30 GMT -5
You DO know why people don't WANT to know, though, don't you? Sorry I must have misunderstood your question, please share ?? Thanks![/quote] The only things people don't want to know are those things that would inconvenience themselves. |
|
However, I would not include myself among those who adamantly consider the Bible to be totally inerrant or without error. I tend to share more progressive views in this area myself from my personal study of how the Bible came into being. For instance, researching the history of Early Christianity actually changed a number of my former views on the Bible in recent years. Along with what others shared, I do appreciate some of the old Hymns that have lived on down through the years ~ not so much the 2x2 hymns, but the classics within the Christian faith. The site below contains a number of my all time favorite hymns.