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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 0:18:03 GMT -5
Dr Carl Werner’s research video: At the 12 minute mark is where he discribes finding All the fossils in the same formation. 🙂 In Dr Carl Werner’s video he insists there were modern day animals fossils along with dinosaurs all within the same rock layer -that they all existed at the same time & that means that animal fauna has NOT changed & therefore they did NOT evolve over time!
What can't be ignored is that if true that all fossils from modern day through the dinosaurs existed at the same time why does Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer?
Surely there should have been some! Why did he not include them?
I think that I will leave that answer up to the "creationists."
Any suggestions?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 0:34:00 GMT -5
Read about how the smallpox vaccine was invented. The discovery had nothing to do with ideas about evolution. perhaps not on the initial vaccine effort, but certainly on our ability to effectively fight it as/if it evolves. Not understanding evolution can indeed bring us back to the time dmmichgood referenced. Here's an article on the evolution of smallpox. www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/smallpox-evolution-history-explored-genome-sequence-ancient-remainsIt's actually an interesting read - documents the rapid divergence of the virus clade right during the times when variolation and vaccination became widespread. Thanks, ipsedixit.
That was an interesting read.
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 2:11:39 GMT -5
Doesn’t eye witness account for anything anymore? Eye witnesses are among some of the least reliable sources of data. Given the bias of the source you have mentioned and the lack of verifiable backup - credibility remains at 0. In order to have reality , we need an observer Is quantum prejudiced about who observed the event? If there was no observer, did it really happen. Creation accounts for an observation. “And God saw that it was good”. No one observed a Big Bang, we do not know if it Was good.
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 2:29:54 GMT -5
So we have a testimony from @ipsedixit that there is no need to study evolution. I'm not entirely sure how you got there, but I'll think higher of you than to imagine that you actually think that's what my post was meaning If not I can try to be clearer. [ Unless , we can demonstrate that evolution didn’t happen, Because : it wasn’t observed? No reason to think your reasoning failed on this . Yet, I would like for you to explain how Over 100 elements were created from “ nothing” Quantum ness does get quite bizarre, ( even in the words of Paul Davies, Bernard , etc (and even Einstein) Big Bang requires an observer, and some a-theists Are becoming converts to an created universe, it Makes logical sense. (And obeys the quantum principles)
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 2:40:24 GMT -5
If you do not have an observer, then you do not exist...
According to definition
Are we beginning to understand the true value in
Fellowships/friendships ? I hope so , I really do.
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 7:07:48 GMT -5
Dr Carl Werner’s research video: At the 12 minute mark is where he discribes finding All the fossils in the same formation. 🙂 In Dr Carl Werner’s video he insists there were modern day animals fossils along with dinosaurs all within the same rock layer -that they all existed at the same time & that means that animal fauna has NOT changed & therefore they did NOT evolve over time!
What can't be ignored is that if true that all fossils from modern day through the dinosaurs existed at the same time why does Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer?
Surely there should have been some! Why did he not include them?
I think that I will leave that answer up to the "creationists."
Any suggestions?
Museums were covering up a lot of what they found Not sure the reasoning, perhaps funding from science foundations Could lead to corruption ?
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 7:12:37 GMT -5
Well, if footprints could be found, maybe the animals were preying on humans, The coverups still are inexcusable!
👎👎
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 7:13:01 GMT -5
Well, if footprints could be found, maybe the animals were preying on humans, The coverups still are inexcusable!
👎👎
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Post by rational on Nov 2, 2017 13:46:23 GMT -5
Should astronomers study how the movement of the planets affect the daily lives of people born at certain times of the year? Do they have to study astrology with serious dedication to know it's scientific nonsense? Should time be given in chemistry for alchemy? (extra credit for every gram of gold produced). It may not seem like it, but the parallel is exact. So we have a testimony from @ipsedixit that there is no need to study evolution. If during the study of evolution there was no supporting information/data discovered that supported the theory then you are right, time to look at a different theory. But that ship has sailed. The evidence is available for all to see (providing they move away from the creationists sites for a bit) and evaluate for themselves.
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Post by rational on Nov 2, 2017 13:50:36 GMT -5
Dr Carl Werner’s research video: At the 12 minute mark is where he discribes finding All the fossils in the same formation. 🙂 It is not a research video. It is a poorly documented video expressing the beliefs of a creationist who failed to realize that even the existing creationist sites will not make such an easily disproved claim.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 14:51:32 GMT -5
I was going to write an actual response, but there's already a forum thread on it. And complete bodies of science on it. If I saw a fossilized fern among the dinosaur rock layers, and saw a similar fern today, I would either say that that form has a very stable phenotype for the niche it inhabits, and has changed little over millions of years, or I would say that since a plant with a form similar to a modern fern existed at the time of the dinosaurs, and we have ferns today, the earth is 6000 years old and was created in six days. And the entire field of radiometric dating is incorrect. And atomic clocks change. And all the explanatory power of evolutionary biology is just confusion and man's thoughts. And the entire field of sedimentation geology can be discarded. And biology, chemistry and physics. Cause a prehistoric fossil looks sorta like something we see today. Eyeballing it - the new science. No wonder even creationist sites distance themselves from him - but verily verily, he has his own reward, as they say. www.scienceforums.net/topic/93004-regarding-evoltuion-anyone-heard-of-dr-carl-werner/
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 17:21:25 GMT -5
In Dr Carl Werner’s video he insists there were modern day animals fossils along with dinosaurs all within the same rock layer -that they all existed at the same time & that means that animal fauna has NOT changed & therefore they did NOT evolve over time!
What can't be ignored is that if true that all fossils from modern day through the dinosaurs existed at the same time why does Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer?
Surely there should have been some! Why did he not include them?
I think that I will leave that answer up to the "creationists."
Any suggestions?
Museums were covering up a lot of what they found Not sure the reasoning, perhaps funding from science foundations Could lead to corruption ? No that isn't it.
Anybody have any ideas why "Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer where he stated there were modern day fossils along with the dinosaurs?"
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 17:53:08 GMT -5
I think he said why, in the video?
Not a problem, if he didn’t happen to find them , then I will volunteer To join him on his next adventure!
😉
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 17:58:11 GMT -5
Dr Carl Werner’s research video: At the 12 minute mark is where he discribes finding All the fossils in the same formation. 🙂 It is not a research video. It is a poorly documented video expressing the beliefs of a creationist who failed to realize that even the existing creationist sites will not make such an easily disproved claim. His research is fairly recently done. His latest book , had 2018 release listed The project has been designed ongoing since 1997-2017, list. (20 years ) His data is spot on. In my opinion
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 18:01:31 GMT -5
Dr Carl Werner’s research video: At the 12 minute mark is where he discribes finding All the fossils in the same formation. 🙂 It is not a research video. It is a poorly documented video expressing the beliefs of a creationist who failed to realize that even the existing creationist sites will not make such an easily disproved claim. Knowing what I’ve read , his data does not conflict with The biblical accounts of creation, in fact it compliments well
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 18:09:34 GMT -5
Museums were covering up a lot of what they found Not sure the reasoning, perhaps funding from science foundations Could lead to corruption ? No that isn't it.
Anybody have any ideas why "Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer where he stated there were modern day fossils along with the dinosaurs?"Humans are crafty ! Biblically the fossils were caused by the sudden deluge (Flood). The Dinosaurs and other animals got swept away and deposited In certain areas, etc, Humans were likely clinging to things that “float” such as Branches, life jackets , you know what e Other contraptions they may have had That would put them in a completely different setting , and many prolly starved to death , and corpse eaten by the fishes, etc Just a thought
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Post by snow on Nov 2, 2017 18:10:49 GMT -5
Of course there is no need to study evolution if one doesn't mind returning to the period of time when one could easily die from small pox, -hardly any family went untouched by the death of a loved one from Tuberculosis & on & on. You know that has nothing to do with evolution. Actually it does. We have learned how to deal with mutating viruses because of our study of evolution and how it works. There is a practical reason for studying evolution.
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Post by snow on Nov 2, 2017 18:15:27 GMT -5
If you do not have an observer, then you do not exist... According to definition Are we beginning to understand the true value in Fellowships/friendships ? I hope so , I really do. That is a New Age belief, not a scientific belief. The only thing that quantum physics says about an observer is that on a micro level, an observer can change a wave into a particle by observing. Has nothing to do with 'without an observer, then you do not exist'.
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 19:01:21 GMT -5
If you do not have an observer, then you do not exist... According to definition Are we beginning to understand the true value in Fellowships/friendships ? I hope so , I really do. That is a New Age belief, not a scientific belief. The only thing that quantum physics says about an observer is that on a micro level, an observer can change a wave into a particle by observing. Has nothing to do with 'without an observer, then you do not exist'. Just an extrapolation of spooky science The effect of consciousness on an event Even on a micro level, can possibly affect the cat in A box . Will you attempt to answer my Question? How did over 100 elements appear Out of nothing / and nowhere? Just ignore it if you haven’t a clue.
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Post by So on Nov 2, 2017 19:09:39 GMT -5
If you do not have an observer, then you do not exist... According to definition Are we beginning to understand the true value in Fellowships/friendships ? I hope so , I really do. That is a New Age belief, not a scientific belief. The only thing that quantum physics says about an observer is that on a micro level, an observer can change a wave into a particle by observing. Has nothing to do with 'without an observer, then you do not exist'. (Paul Davies I believe?) , in an interview about quantum science (spookiness) , the interviewer was Discussing a quantum event in the Big Bang .... and pressed for an observer, They kinds flinched and said , well, perhaps God did observe it? But it didn’t seem like a rehearsal, they just postulated such an observation
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 19:55:29 GMT -5
Eye witnesses are among some of the least reliable sources of data. Given the bias of the source you have mentioned and the lack of verifiable backup - credibility remains at 0. In order to have reality , we need an observer Is quantum prejudiced about who observed the event? If there was no observer, did it really happen. Creation accounts for an observation. “And God saw that it was good”. No one observed a Big Bang, we do not know if it Was good. If a tree falls in the forest but no one is there to observe it fall, (see or hear it fall) did it really happen?
As for the beginning of the universe, your claim is only of ONE god's supposed observation (out of a multitude of gods) whose account he says "was good.”
Since the god saying that was supposed to also have been the one who created it, wouldn't he naturally say that "it was good?"
But then again, what does such a god mean when he says that "it was good?”
That it is "good," as in being perfect, whether in structure or beauty or in obedience to HIM?
Or merely that it pleases him?
But then, -it isn't long before that particular god becomes disenchanted about part of his creation and finds it ISN'T so good after all!
Poor dears, -woe be unto them! The travails the god's have to go through that we human's just don't understand!
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 20:14:28 GMT -5
It is not a research video. It is a poorly documented video expressing the beliefs of a creationist who failed to realize that even the existing creationist sites will not make such an easily disproved claim. Knowing what I’ve read , his data does not conflict with The biblical accounts of creation, in fact it compliments well Why would you think that "his data does not conflict with The biblical accounts of creation," -he is a creationist after all and not a scientist!
His data has more holes in it than Swiss cheese and what is left is contrived to mean something that is simply false!
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 20:22:58 GMT -5
No that isn't it.
Anybody have any ideas why "Werner NEVER mention human fossils within that same layer where he stated there were modern day fossils along with the dinosaurs?" Humans are crafty ! Biblically the fossils were caused by the sudden deluge (Flood). The Dinosaurs and other animals got swept away and deposited In certain areas, etc, Humans were likely clinging to things that “float” such as Branches, life jackets , you know what e Other contraptions they may have had That would put them in a completely different setting , and many prolly starved to death , and corpse eaten by the fishes, etc Just a thought Won't fly.
There is no reason that all of the people would be in a different site than other life forms.
Guess again.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -5
That is a New Age belief, not a scientific belief. The only thing that quantum physics says about an observer is that on a micro level, an observer can change a wave into a particle by observing. Has nothing to do with 'without an observer, then you do not exist'. (Paul Davies I believe?) , in an interview about quantum science (spookiness) , the interviewer was Discussing a quantum event in the Big Bang .... and pressed for an observer, They kinds flinched and said , well, perhaps God did observe it? But it didn’t seem like a rehearsal, they just postulated such an observation You have to do better than that if you want us to take it seriously. Sounds more like a joking response to a silly question!
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Post by rational on Nov 2, 2017 21:33:52 GMT -5
I was going to write an actual response, but there's already a forum thread on it. And complete bodies of science on it. If I saw a fossilized fern among the dinosaur rock layers, and saw a similar fern today, I would either say that that form has a very stable phenotype for the niche it inhabits, and has changed little over millions of years, or I would say that since a plant with a form similar to a modern fern existed at the time of the dinosaurs, and we have ferns today, the earth is 6000 years old and was created in six days. And the entire field of radiometric dating is incorrect. And atomic clocks change. And all the explanatory power of evolutionary biology is just confusion and man's thoughts. And the entire field of sedimentation geology can be discarded. And biology, chemistry and physics. Cause a prehistoric fossil looks sorta like something we see today. Eyeballing it - the new science. No wonder even creationist sites distance themselves from him - but verily verily, he has his own reward, as they say. www.scienceforums.net/topic/93004-regarding-evoltuion-anyone-heard-of-dr-carl-werner/Thanks for that link. Saves a lot of typing!
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Post by rational on Nov 2, 2017 21:57:27 GMT -5
It is not a research video. It is a poorly documented video expressing the beliefs of a creationist who failed to realize that even the existing creationist sites will not make such an easily disproved claim. His research is fairly recently done. His latest book , had 2018 release listed The project has been designed ongoing since 1997-2017, list. (20 years ) His data is spot on. In my opinion Probably best for you to continue to hold that opinion.
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Post by So on Nov 3, 2017 0:17:26 GMT -5
[ Extra credit for telling us how gold evolved? (Out of what?) How were the over 100 elements created from nothing, Creation doesn’t need to mock evolutionists, they Don’t need to . 🙂
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Post by So on Nov 3, 2017 0:28:38 GMT -5
Alchemy ( creating gold) is child’s play , please explain getting Over 100 elements from “nothing” 🤔😉 [There is recent interest in the scientific idea that aliens shipped gold to earth In meteors millions and millions of years ago , and it crashed and exploded and spread the gold all over the world, Hey, can’t argue with “science” can we? Well unless it’s all hot air! 😉
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