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Post by maryhig on Jul 10, 2015 19:45:17 GMT -5
The blood of the covenant is the new testament! Which is his blood, which he has shed for many for the remission of sins. It's the Gospel. It's his life poured out bringing us Gods holy spirit and love! And we become a part of that covenant with God, when we follow Jesus drink from the cup and take part, entering into the kingdom and spreading the gospel, allowing Christ into our hearts and living it out, denying flesh and the world and become one with God and Christ! I wouldn't be so sure about saying were ok intentionally sinning Ross and we will definitely be forgiven! Unintentionally yes, but you can't say God will forgive intentional sins. What does this in Hebrews 10 mean? For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins And this Romans 6, quite clearly said once we are dead to self ( baptised into his death), we are to sin no more! Just like Jesus told the woman caught on adultary. The meaning of taking up your cross and denying yourself, is denying the flesh, world and sin. Not thinking God will forgive sins we've purposely done, quite clearly we're not to continue in sin. Even though Gods grace is plentifully. Were not to take God for granted! It's better not to purposely sin, than to hope God forgives us. Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness ofhis resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Our old man should be crucified with Christ. Our body should be dead to sin. And Christ in our hearts through the holy spirit should be working in our hearts, and our conscience should be so strong that we can't purposely sin. Because as soon as we think of sin, that conscience should kick in immediately. And I believe this is the spirit guiding us and encouraging us not to do it. And hopefully we listen! Edit: this just came to me, the prodigal son sinned, but he suffered in his lifetime for that sin he wasn't just forgiven, he had to truly realise what he'd done wrong and realise that what he had neglected was so precious and once he was brought low, he returned. Being Humbled so much so that he was willing to be a servant. And that's like us. We have to be humbled and willing to be a servant and truly repent to receive Gods forgivness. Once we know the living God, we can't purposely sin and think we're ok, he might see it differently! Also peter didn't intentionally sin, he only realised he has sinned when the cock crowed. And he wept bitterly! Peter didn't intentionally sin?? Cmon....he knew completely what he was doing. He remembered Jesus words when the cock crowed - not realised he was sinning when the cock crowed!! David didn't sin intentionally?? Based on your view you'd have most of the faithful people in the bible who God used for his purposes with no covering for sin! I say again the key is what happened spiritually to Jesus on the cross and the perfect human sacrifice He provided. I would focus on that as what happened there (which Christs whole ministry pointed towards) is the very essence of Christianity. Sorry no, I don't agree with that about Peter at all, I believe he was frightened, he didn't have the spirit at that time and he didn't have Jesus. He was scared, stressed and was denying him but unintentionally sinning. I truly believe that. I believe wasn't thinking right and he realised when the cock crowed. And Peter once he was full of the holy Ghost, was a different man. He was strong, unafraid and defended Jesus everywhere! As for David, he wasn't around when Jesus was! Even so. He paid for his intentional sins, he lost his firstborn to Bathsheba. And we will pay for our intentional sins. In one way or another. And we have to be careful, because losing our firstborn would be losing Christ in the heart. Because he is the firstborn of God and with him would go the spirit!
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Post by jondough on Jul 10, 2015 19:52:27 GMT -5
I think Peter was very aware that he was denying Christ. He just lacked the courage and strength to do any differently.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 10, 2015 20:44:35 GMT -5
I think Peter was very aware that he was denying Christ. He just lacked the courage and strength to do any differently. I don't think he did myself, I think it was unintentional sin. Matthew 26 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Then began he to curse and to swear,saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly. Mark 14 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept Luke 22 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew. And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And Peter went out, and wept bitterly. In Matthew it says he remembered the words of Jesus, and in mark, it says when the cock crowed he thought there upon and wept! But I think Luke is the clearest. It said the lord looked upon Peter, and peter remembered the word of the lord and he went out and wept. And I feel were like this. We do things wrong and sin in our lives, then Christ through the spirit shows us in our hearts and we will realise we've sinned and we should be ashamed and repent, Hopefully! We all sin, but it shouldn't be intentionally. But the stronger we are in God, the stronger our conscience will be working against sin before we do it. Still we do all unintentionally sin! Judas' sin was intentional, and Satan in his heart led him to hang himself. We have to be careful, and not listen to the wrong thing in our hearts. Or we can be carried away and be dead to God in the spirit. And it will be of it own doing. I believe that we can't take God for granted, and we shouldn't be purposely sinning.
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Post by jondough on Jul 10, 2015 21:14:33 GMT -5
So you think that when He said 3 different times that "he had no idea who that man is".....that he had no idea he was lying?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 10, 2015 22:54:16 GMT -5
Sorry no, I don't agree with that about Peter at all, I believe he was frightened, he didn't have the spirit at that time and he didn't have Jesus. He was scared, stressed and was denying him but unintentionally sinning. I truly believe that. I believe wasn't thinking right and he realised when the cock crowed. And Peter once he was full of the holy Ghost, was a different man. He was strong, unafraid and defended Jesus everywhere! As for David, he wasn't around when Jesus was! Even so. He paid for his intentional sins, he lost his firstborn to Bathsheba. And we will pay for our intentional sins. In one way or another. And we have to be careful, because losing our firstborn would be losing Christ in the heart. Because he is the firstborn of God and with him would go the spirit! David wasn't the one who paid! It was his innocent son!
Maryhig, is there anything that you can't rationalize away when you want to believe in something or someone no matter how evil their actions were? Either you believe the bible is the accurate word of god or you don't!
There are multiple places where what the god of the bible did were absolutely evil.
There is no rationalizing that away!
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Post by What Hat on Jul 10, 2015 23:06:21 GMT -5
(I know that only Catholics believe in Purgatory, and I happen to believe in it also. But I don't think it matters if you do or don't.) ~ What Hat, I'm curious, Do you self identify today as Catholic? No. I identify as a universalist Christian. I believe in Purgatory but not eternal Hell.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 10, 2015 23:18:09 GMT -5
They don't think they can 'do' anything to be saved except by the grace of God. You do believe you can 'die' to let in the spirit of Christ and become more like Christ. That is something you can 'do'. Therein lies the difference as I see it. I'm not saying that you think you will ever be perfect like Christ, but you do believe there is something you need to do daily 'die' for you to have a possibility of salvation. That's what I have got from what you say, but of course I could be misinterpreting what you're saying completely. Yes that's right, that's what I believe. And many times in the bible it says we have to leave off our old life of sin and live a new life in Christ. (Putting off the old man and putting on the new) I know I say it a lot, but what Jesus said seems to be bypassed be some people. He said, take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow me. Taking up our cross and denying ourselves is doing works, there's no way around that. But we can only succeed if we let Christ into our heart and listen to our conscience, because I believe that this is the spirit letting us know were wrong! And by listening God he is helping us to become clean from within. The outward works come hand in hand with this because once Gods love is working in our hearts, we will love our neighbour also! James said, resist the devil and he will flee, resist the devil. That's some thing to do. When you are being tempted but you know it's wrong. It's like the devil has one arm, and God through the conscience has the other. And your in the middle being torn. And I know that feeling because I've experienced it. My heart being torn by the flesh pulling me one way and God pulling me the other! It's one heck of a fight, fighting the fleshly desires! I remember when I started properly going to the meeting, and my conscience was in overdrive, because many of the things that I heard were wrong, i was doing! And they didn't know! I can remember going to work for the first time with no make up on, everyone looked at me like I had 2 heads. They were all gossiping, I got the "oh my what's happened to you, you look awful!" And the " you look so sick, are you Ill? " etc. I also stopped dying my hair, my boss called me on and said "what happened to you nice blonde hair and make up? It made you look so nice" (I didn't give these up for outward appearance, but because I was vain in my heart) next it was the drinking and socialising! And I liked to party! I think people thought I has lost it! I kept getting asked to go out, and go to parties and all the people who would hardly buy anyone a drink were there. Saying " go one, just one won't hurt you." But my conscience was working on me, God was working on my heart. And slowly I was dying to self. And the more I'm decreasing, the more Christ is increasing, and the stronger God is making me! I don't think of those things anymore. Money, big houses, best of cars etc. Are all unimportant. I see life so differently now. Now it's Gods love that's important, and sharing him with others and sharing his word and showing him through my life. And caring more about those people around me. But I couldn't do it because I am weak in the flesh, I know Christ strengthens me, and Gods holy spirit is working to help clean my heart! But I still go wrong. So I believe dying to self is important, because Jesus told us to do it when he told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves and follow him, because he did it also! The verse below refers to death to self 1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. And this verse below tells us how wrong it is to sin. I just don't feel right, reading verses like this and saying I'm saved and going to heaven and all my sins are already forgiven! Also in 1 John 3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Thanks for taking the time to read this You might enjoy this. 1. In what sense, then, are Christians perfect? This is what I shall endeavor, in the Second place, to show. But it should be premised, that there are several stages in Christian life, as in natural; some of the children of God being but new-born babes; others having attained to more maturity. And accordingly St. John, in his first Epistle, (1 John 2:12, &c.) applies himself severally to those he terms little children, those he styles young men, and those whom he entitles fathers. "I write unto you, little children," saith the Apostle, "because your sins are forgiven you:" Because thus far you have attained, -- being "justified freely," you "have peace with God, through Jesus Christ." [Rom. 5:1] "I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one;" or (as he afterwards addeth,) "because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you." [1 John 2:13, 14] Ye have quenched the fiery darts of the wicked one, [Eph. 6:16] the doubts and fears wherewith he disturbed your first peace; and the witness of God, that your sins are forgiven, now abideth in your heart. "I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning." [1 John 2:13] Ye have known both the Father and the Son and the Spirit of Christ, in your inmost soul. Ye are "perfect men, being grown up to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." [Eph. 4:13]
It's from this famous sermon by John Wesley on Christian Perfection. He also wrote an entire book on the subject. www.umcmission.org/Find-Resources/John-Wesley-Sermons/Sermon-40-Christian-Perfection
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 0:21:59 GMT -5
Sorry no, I don't agree with that about Peter at all, I believe he was frightened, he didn't have the spirit at that time and he didn't have Jesus. He was scared, stressed and was denying him but unintentionally sinning. I truly believe that. I believe wasn't thinking right and he realised when the cock crowed. And Peter once he was full of the holy Ghost, was a different man. He was strong, unafraid and defended Jesus everywhere! As for David, he wasn't around when Jesus was! Even so. He paid for his intentional sins, he lost his firstborn to Bathsheba. And we will pay for our intentional sins. In one way or another. And we have to be careful, because losing our firstborn would be losing Christ in the heart. Because he is the firstborn of God and with him would go the spirit! David wasn't the one who paid! It was his innocent son!
Maryhig, is there anything that you can't rationalize away when you want to believe in something or someone no matter how evil their actions were? Either you believe the bible is the accurate word of god or you don't!
There are multiple places where what the god of the bible did were absolutely evil.
There is no rationalizing that away!I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 11, 2015 0:40:58 GMT -5
David wasn't the one who paid! It was his innocent son!
Maryhig, is there anything that you can't rationalize away when you want to believe in something or someone no matter how evil their actions were? Either you believe the bible is the accurate word of god or you don't!
There are multiple places where what the god of the bible did were absolutely evil.
There is no rationalizing that away! I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world. That is not what the bible says about David!
It doesn't not say that Satan did that to David's son!
It says that god did it!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 1:24:05 GMT -5
Sorry no, I don't agree with that about Peter at all, I believe he was frightened, he didn't have the spirit at that time and he didn't have Jesus. He was scared, stressed and was denying him but unintentionally sinning. I truly believe that. I believe wasn't thinking right and he realised when the cock crowed. And Peter once he was full of the holy Ghost, was a different man. He was strong, unafraid and defended Jesus everywhere! As for David, he wasn't around when Jesus was! Even so. He paid for his intentional sins, he lost his firstborn to Bathsheba. And we will pay for our intentional sins. In one way or another. And we have to be careful, because losing our firstborn would be losing Christ in the heart. Because he is the firstborn of God and with him would go the spirit! Jondough has said it more succintly ...of course Peter knew he was lying. In that situation (facing potential death)we may do exactly the same. As for David, Jesus was very much alive and well when David reigned! And what Jesus did on the cross will enable David and Abraham and anyone else in the OT or NT who repents and puts their faith in God to be completely clothed in the righteousness of Christ and therefore escape the wrath of God on judgement day. I didn't say Jesus wasn't alive when David reigned, I said David wasn't around when Jesus lived (i meant flesh but I think you know that this is what I mean) yes he was in the hearts of his prophets. So they would have known in their hearts and been told it was wrong to sin before God, and would have had to suffer for it. I can't believe that people believe that you can know God and intentionally sin and you are still ok in Gods eyes. And that Jesus' life is made to none effect, and its all been put on his crucifixion! And that all as have to do is believe, not do anything at all, we can still sin, live how we want to live. Do what we want, because it's all ok, Jesus has done everything and were all going to heaven just believe! No wonder you have false prophets asking for millions on tv. Because they're ok, they're saved because they believe. Or why some people live there own life, building up in this world, retaining their sins, putting themselves before God, because they think their ok, it's all been done for them, the price is paid, all they have to do is believe, i wonder how many who believe this way, look good by showing up Sunday and forget God on Monday because their own lives are so important? But it's all ok, I just have to believe. There's no taking up the cross, there's no denying themselves(sins of the flesh) and following Jesus because its just believing, there's no doing because I can do what I want, because Jesus died for me and I'm saved because I believe! And there no enduring to the end, even though endure means suffer, because Jesus did it all by dying on the cross and as long as we believe to end were saved. Using the word believe covers an awful lot doesn't it? But I feel that if I say I believe then I will do, I will follow Jesus and take up my cross, and deny the sins of my flesh and the world, not purposely sinning because the spirit is strong within me, and God has a hold of my heart, and I know I will hurt him if I sin, and I don't want to hurt God. I want to keep him in my heart, so I try my hardest to follow Jesus, although I do sin, I hope not purposely. My conscience is getting stronger, and when I go to sin, that spirit is warring with my flesh and by the grace of God, Christ in my heart is helping me overcome, because I can't do it on my own, my flesh is weak. But Gods spirit through Christ is strong and he is helping me, and he will help me right through my life, if I keep my faith and love God with all my heart, putting him first, loving my neighbour as myself enduring to the end, and through taking up my cross and dying daily I'm following Jesus, because he did all of this and he overcame the world, and he can help me to overcome also. God wants my heart cleansed of sin. Sin can't just stay there and I can't just cover it up by saying I believe, if I believe then I will do. James said faith without works is dead! God must be doing this works, which is cleansing my heart, and I must be showing those works outwardly to all I meet. But my old life must go. And a new life must take over. And i will put on the new man which is Christ in the heart. I'm afraid I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe how Jesus taught, once your saved, you go sin no more!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 1:31:21 GMT -5
I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world. That is not what the bible says about David!
It doesn't not say that Satan did that to David's son!
It says that god did it!DMG God can take any life, he gave it. It's not wrong for God to take a life. It's wrong for Satan to take a life and its wrong for a man to murder! And Satan is and always has been a liar as a murderer! God said thou shalt not kill, that's it, but he didn't say he can't take a life. We all die, but it should be in God time, not by man's hand!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 11, 2015 1:59:55 GMT -5
That is not what the bible says about David!
It doesn't not say that Satan did that to David's son!
It says that god did it! DMG God can take any life, he gave it. It's not wrong for God to take a life. It's wrong for Satan to take a life and its wrong for a man to murder! And Satan is and always has been a liar as a murderer! God said thou shalt not kill, that's it, but he didn't say he can't take a life. We all die, but it should be in God time, not by man's hand! But Maryhig! we were talking about David's son and you said, "I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world."
Now you are saying that " God can take any life! just because he gave it!
That phrase is usually the last resort of Christains for letting their god off the hook for killing someone or a multitude of people! Wish I had a dollar for every time that I have heard that excuse! If it were a god of some other religion Christians wouldn't be so lenient, -so tolerant of another god killing people right & left!
However, there is no end to the excuses for their own god.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 3:26:15 GMT -5
DMG God can take any life, he gave it. It's not wrong for God to take a life. It's wrong for Satan to take a life and its wrong for a man to murder! And Satan is and always has been a liar as a murderer! God said thou shalt not kill, that's it, but he didn't say he can't take a life. We all die, but it should be in God time, not by man's hand! But Maryhig! we were talking about David's son and you said, "I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world."
Now you are saying that " God can take any life! just because he gave it!
That phrase is usually the last resort of Christains for letting their god off the hook for killing someone or a multitude of people! Wish I had a dollar for every time that I have heard that excuse! If it were a god of some other religion Christians wouldn't be so lenient, -so tolerant of another god killing people right & left!
However, there is no end to the excuses for their own god.
I have never once said that God can't take life, I said that man can't kill, God won't go back on his commandments and his commandment is "thou" shalt not kill, not "I won't take life". I've never once said that. God has told us were not allowed to kill, so I don't believe that any of Gods people are allowed to kill anyone and nor is anyone else, but Satan has hold of some peoples hearts so they do it, just like those who crucified Jesus, it was murder. And I believe that God sent Jesus to show us how to live, and he wouldn't hurt anybody, and he was in the image of God!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 4:16:12 GMT -5
I didn't say Jesus wasn't alive when David reigned, I said David wasn't around when Jesus lived (i meant flesh but I think you know that this is what I mean) yes he was in the hearts of his prophets. So they would have known in their hearts and been told it was wrong to sin before God, and would have had to suffer for it. I can't believe that people believe that you can know God and intentionally sin and you are still ok in Gods eyes. And that Jesus' life is made to none effect, and its all been put on his crucifixion! And that all as have to do is believe, not do anything at all, we can still sin, live how we want to live. Do what we want, because it's all ok, Jesus has done everything and were all going to heaven just believe! No wonder you have false prophets asking for millions on tv. Because they're ok, they're saved because they believe. Or why some people live there own life, building up in this world, retaining their sins, putting themselves before God, because they think their ok, it's all been done for them, the price is paid, all they have to do is believe, i wonder how many who believe this way, look good by showing up Sunday and forget God on Monday because their own lives are so important? But it's all ok, I just have to believe. There's no taking up the cross, there's no denying themselves(sins of the flesh) and following Jesus because its just believing, there's no doing because I can do what I want, because Jesus died for me and I'm saved because I believe! And there no enduring to the end, even though endure means suffer, because Jesus did it all by dying on the cross and as long as we believe to end were saved. Using the word believe covers an awful lot doesn't it? But I feel that if I say I believe then I will do, I will follow Jesus and take up my cross, and deny the sins of my flesh and the world, not purposely sinning because the spirit is strong within me, and God has a hold of my heart, and I know I will hurt him if I sin, and I don't want to hurt God. I want to keep him in my heart, so I try my hardest to follow Jesus, although I do sin, I hope not purposely. My conscience is getting stronger, and when I go to sin, that spirit is warring with my flesh and by the grace of God, Christ in my heart is helping me overcome, because I can't do it on my own, my flesh is weak. But Gods spirit through Christ is strong and he is helping me, and he will help me right through my life, if I keep my faith and love God with all my heart, putting him first, loving my neighbour as myself enduring to the end, and through taking up my cross and dying daily I'm following Jesus, because he did all of this and he overcame the world, and he can help me to overcome also. God wants my heart cleansed of sin. Sin can't just stay there and I can't just cover it up by saying I believe, if I believe then I will do. James said faith without works is dead! God must be doing this works, which is cleansing my heart, and I must be showing those works outwardly to all I meet. But my old life must go. And a new life must take over. And i will put on the new man which if Christ in the heart. I'm afraid I don't believe in once saved always saved, I believe how Jesus taught, once your saved, you go sin no more! I'm not sure how we transitioned to once saved, always saved! Of course we shouldn't purposefully sin. I don't know you but I know you do and will. Peter did as has been referenced. Let's live our lives and follow Jesus in thankfulness for the victory that He accomplished while nailed to the cross. We were justified when we repented and turned to Christ - the Bible is so clear on this point - trying to earn our salvation is a fruitless exercise because it is simply impossible. We shouldn't purposely sin, but we do? It should be we shouldn't purposely sin so we don't! I hope I don't purposely sin or I'm in trouble! And I don't expect God to let me off! And how do you know I do? Your judging me without knowing me! I sin, but it's unintentionally, if i have sinned on purpose since knowing God in my heart and I've done it intentionally then so be it, that's my fault and God will judge me. You believe that about Jesus' crucifixion. But I disagree, my God is a God of love. Not one that turned his face away and poured wrath out in his innocent son forsaking him at the time he needed him most! I don't believe God would do this. As I said, God will judge my heart. Not man!
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Post by snow on Jul 11, 2015 11:59:27 GMT -5
But Maryhig! we were talking about David's son and you said, "I don't believe God does anything evil! Satan does the evil works in this world."
Now you are saying that " God can take any life! just because he gave it!
That phrase is usually the last resort of Christains for letting their god off the hook for killing someone or a multitude of people! Wish I had a dollar for every time that I have heard that excuse! If it were a god of some other religion Christians wouldn't be so lenient, -so tolerant of another god killing people right & left!
However, there is no end to the excuses for their own god.
I have never once said that God can't take life, I said that man can't kill, God won't go back on his commandments and his commandment is "thou" shalt not kill, not "I won't take life". I've never once said that. God has told us were not allowed to kill, so I don't believe that any of Gods people are allowed to kill anyone and nor is anyone else, but Satan has hold of some peoples hearts so they do it, just like those who crucified Jesus, it was murder. And I believe that God sent Jesus to show us how to live, and he wouldn't hurt anybody, and he was in the image of God! What is the difference between 'taking a life' and 'not killing'? The Christian God kills and orders his people to kill. He is the same as the Muslim God and the Hebrew God. Yahweh and Allah both order people to be killed and the Christian God is supposedly the same God as the OT God is it not? There is no way anyone can misinterpret the complete annihilation of a tribe of people for something like a 'spiritual killing'. Not in my understanding anyway.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 15:55:46 GMT -5
I have never once said that God can't take life, I said that man can't kill, God won't go back on his commandments and his commandment is "thou" shalt not kill, not "I won't take life". I've never once said that. God has told us were not allowed to kill, so I don't believe that any of Gods people are allowed to kill anyone and nor is anyone else, but Satan has hold of some peoples hearts so they do it, just like those who crucified Jesus, it was murder. And I believe that God sent Jesus to show us how to live, and he wouldn't hurt anybody, and he was in the image of God! What is the difference between 'taking a life' and 'not killing'? The Christian God kills and orders his people to kill. He is the same as the Muslim God and the Hebrew God. Yahweh and Allah both order people to be killed and the Christian God is supposedly the same God as the OT God is it not? There is no way anyone can misinterpret the complete annihilation of a tribe of people for something like a 'spiritual killing'. Not in my understanding anyway. Everyone dies snow, but man can't under Gods commandments take another's life. God however gave life and he can take life again. Anyone who orders another to be killed in the name of God, isn't of God, whatever religion they believe in! With the love I feel in my heart I could never hurt another person. Cruelty and wickedness etc, are things I don't understand. I don't understand why one person would want to physically hurt another. Or hurt them in any other way. And if I being in this sinful flesh feels like this, what must an ever loving Gods heart be like? I just look at Jesus and his life to see God. He was full of love for others and he brings that love, through the spirit, to our hearts.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 11, 2015 16:35:34 GMT -5
I have never once said that God can't take life, I said that man can't kill, God won't go back on his commandments and his commandment is "thou" shalt not kill, not "I won't take life". I've never once said that. God has told us were not allowed to kill, so I don't believe that any of Gods people are allowed to kill anyone and nor is anyone else, but Satan has hold of some peoples hearts so they do it, just like those who crucified Jesus, it was murder. And I believe that God sent Jesus to show us how to live, and he wouldn't hurt anybody, and he was in the image of God! I don't understand you you, Maryhig!
What do you mean that, "I have never once said that God can't take life," Of course not! You said just the opposite!
This precisely what you said: "DMG God can take any life, he gave it. It's not wrong for God to take a life."
Christians excuse their god for any evil that HE does, like taking the life of David's innocent son instead of David himself!
God was supposed to have made mankind in HIS, GOD's IMAGINE and tells humans that they aren't suppose to kill others.
Yet, HE, GOD himself, kills anyone HE wants to, -even innocent suckling babies & exacts vengeance on someone like David by killing David's innocent son!
Yet HE, GOD, -expects mankind to adhere to a morality that HE, GOD himself refuses to adhere to! HE, GOD, certainly sets a great example don't you think?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 17:04:05 GMT -5
I have never once said that God can't take life, I said that man can't kill, God won't go back on his commandments and his commandment is "thou" shalt not kill, not "I won't take life". I've never once said that. God has told us were not allowed to kill, so I don't believe that any of Gods people are allowed to kill anyone and nor is anyone else, but Satan has hold of some peoples hearts so they do it, just like those who crucified Jesus, it was murder. And I believe that God sent Jesus to show us how to live, and he wouldn't hurt anybody, and he was in the image of God! I don't understand you you, Maryhig!
What do you mean that, "I have never once said that God can't take life," Of course not! You said just the opposite!
This precisely what you said: "DMG God can take any life, he gave it. It's not wrong for God to take a life."
Christians excuse their god for any evil that HE does, like taking the life of David's innocent son instead of David himself!
God was supposed to have made mankind in HIS, GOD's IMAGINE and tells humans that they aren't suppose to kill others.
Yet, HE, GOD himself, kills anyone HE wants to, -even innocent suckling babies & exacts vengeance on someone like David by killing David's innocent son!
Yet HE, GOD, -expects mankind to adhere to a morality that HE, GOD himself refuses to adhere to! HE, GOD, certainly sets a great example don't you think? I don't understand you either, why shouldn't God take life, if he gave it? We all die at some point don't we? We think differently because we believe differently, you don't understand my way of thinking because you don't believe in God! I've only ever said it is wrong for one human being to take anothers life. David's baby, as you said was innocent, and I believe he would have gone straight to heaven. If you want an example of God, look at Jesus. I think Jesus came as a perfect example for God! He shows Gods heart completely!
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Post by snow on Jul 11, 2015 17:04:59 GMT -5
What is the difference between 'taking a life' and 'not killing'? The Christian God kills and orders his people to kill. He is the same as the Muslim God and the Hebrew God. Yahweh and Allah both order people to be killed and the Christian God is supposedly the same God as the OT God is it not? There is no way anyone can misinterpret the complete annihilation of a tribe of people for something like a 'spiritual killing'. Not in my understanding anyway. Everyone dies snow, but man can't under Gods commandments take another's life. God however gave life and he can take life again. Anyone who orders another to be killed in the name of God, isn't of God, whatever religion they believe in! With the love I feel in my heart I could never hurt another person. Cruelty and wickedness etc, are things I don't understand. I don't understand why one person would want to physically hurt another. Or hurt them in any other way. And if I being in this sinful flesh feels like this, what must an ever loving Gods heart be like? I just look at Jesus and his life to see God. He was full of love for others and he brings that love, through the spirit, to our hearts. Yes everything dies. Has nothing to do with God though imo. But lets just pretend there is a God like the OT describes. He demands the Hebrews kill. He had Moses killing his own people when they were worshiping the Golden Calf. One cannot just ignore what is written in the Bible and say it's not true and then turn around and say the bible is infallible. You say you couldn't hurt and can't understand how others could. And you attribute this mindset to the Holy Spirit working in your life. Well I agree, I don't understand how people can hurt other people either, at least not intentionally. We all hurt people in different ways, mostly unintentionally. I am not a believer in a God but I seem to be capable of love and compassion, not understanding why people intentionally hurt anything else, not just people but animals also. That is why I have no respect for the Christian God because that being has done more evil than most humans. The fact that he would allow any of his creation to go to hell and be tortured for eternity is a good example of what I disrespect about that being. If he was a god of love and mercy, no one would rot in hell. As a human parent there is no way I would allow my children to be sent to such a place no matter what they might have done. It's evil at it's best. Thankfully I don't believe in such a being or a heaven and a hell, but I did once and it was this epiphany that made be realize worshiping that God was not something I would ever want to do.
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Post by Mary on Jul 11, 2015 17:13:51 GMT -5
Hi Maryhig
Don't know if you saw my question on the last post on the previous page? Plenty of time I know you are busy..
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 17:23:41 GMT -5
Everyone dies snow, but man can't under Gods commandments take another's life. God however gave life and he can take life again. Anyone who orders another to be killed in the name of God, isn't of God, whatever religion they believe in! With the love I feel in my heart I could never hurt another person. Cruelty and wickedness etc, are things I don't understand. I don't understand why one person would want to physically hurt another. Or hurt them in any other way. And if I being in this sinful flesh feels like this, what must an ever loving Gods heart be like? I just look at Jesus and his life to see God. He was full of love for others and he brings that love, through the spirit, to our hearts. Yes everything dies. Has nothing to do with God though imo. But lets just pretend there is a God like the OT describes. He demands the Hebrews kill. He had Moses killing his own people when they were worshiping the Golden Calf. One cannot just ignore what is written in the Bible and say it's not true and then turn around and say the bible is infallible. You say you couldn't hurt and can't understand how others could. And you attribute this mindset to the Holy Spirit working in your life. Well I agree, I don't understand how people can hurt other people either, at least not intentionally. We all hurt people in different ways, mostly unintentionally. I am not a believer in a God but I seem to be capable of love and compassion, not understanding why people intentionally hurt anything else, not just people but animals also. That is why I have no respect for the Christian God because that being has done more evil than most humans. The fact that he would allow any of his creation to go to hell and be tortured for eternity is a good example of what I disrespect about that being. If he was a god of love and mercy, no one would rot in hell. As a human parent there is no way I would allow my children to be sent to such a place no matter what they might have done. It's evil at it's best. Thankfully I don't believe in such a being or a heaven and a hell, but I did once and it was this epiphany that made be realize worshiping that God was not something I would ever want to do. Snow, hell is what we make it. It's our own lusts and desires and the further into these lusts were go, the further away from God we go. We do it to ourselves. Any love, in any of our hearts, I believe is from God. But you don't see it like me because you don't believe that there is any existence after life, and that no God exists. Hell seems to be on your mind a lot when it comes to God. Yet to you hell didn't exist, so it should mean nothing to you?
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 17:24:26 GMT -5
Hi Maryhig Don't know if you saw my question on the last post on the previous page? Plenty of time I know you are busy.. Sorry Mary, no I haven't seen you question, I will go and look for it
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Post by snow on Jul 11, 2015 17:48:22 GMT -5
Yes everything dies. Has nothing to do with God though imo. But lets just pretend there is a God like the OT describes. He demands the Hebrews kill. He had Moses killing his own people when they were worshiping the Golden Calf. One cannot just ignore what is written in the Bible and say it's not true and then turn around and say the bible is infallible. You say you couldn't hurt and can't understand how others could. And you attribute this mindset to the Holy Spirit working in your life. Well I agree, I don't understand how people can hurt other people either, at least not intentionally. We all hurt people in different ways, mostly unintentionally. I am not a believer in a God but I seem to be capable of love and compassion, not understanding why people intentionally hurt anything else, not just people but animals also. That is why I have no respect for the Christian God because that being has done more evil than most humans. The fact that he would allow any of his creation to go to hell and be tortured for eternity is a good example of what I disrespect about that being. If he was a god of love and mercy, no one would rot in hell. As a human parent there is no way I would allow my children to be sent to such a place no matter what they might have done. It's evil at it's best. Thankfully I don't believe in such a being or a heaven and a hell, but I did once and it was this epiphany that made be realize worshiping that God was not something I would ever want to do. Snow, hell is what we make it. It's our own lusts and desires and the further into these lusts were go, the further away from God we go. We do it to ourselves. Any love, in any of our hearts, I believe is from God. But you don't see it like me because you don't believe that there is any existence after life, and that no God exists. Hell seems to be on your mind a lot when it comes to God. Yet to you hell didn't exist, so it should mean nothing to you? I post on a board where most of the people believe in a God and therefore hell. When people tell me their God is a God of love I remind them of hell. Doesn't really cross my mind for the most part. The whole concept of hell makes no sense to me. But I get told by those who do believe that I am going there. No you, you haven't, but you seem to be the exception. So you think hell is a state of mind and has nothing to do with an actual place? Is heaven a state of mind also and there is no such thing as judgement at the end of life by God? From what you are saying because I am happy, feel love and compassion, by state of mind would be heaven when I die, not hell? In Buddhism peace comes from not having expectations etc. Is this similar to what you mean when you talk about our lusts and desires. They believe Nirvana is the end to desire and a type of merging with the 'whole'. As long as you continue to have expectations and desires you continue on the cycle of lives.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 17:49:06 GMT -5
Maryhig, if the crucifixion was not God's plan for Jesus why did He not stop it? Why did he allow evil men to have their own way and kill His Son? Because i believe it was Gods plan that Jesus should come and bring us the truth, and to show Gods love and deny the sins of the world to show us the way, the truth and the life. I believe Jesus had to endure to the end, and take whatever Satan threw at him and show love, forgiveness and mercy thus overcoming Satan completely. If God had of stopped it, Satan would have overcome Jesus. So Jesus had to go through everything right up to the end of his life to overcome Satan and God foreknew what Satan would do to Jesus and it was prophesied in the old testament. So Jesus came and denied sin, the world and Satan until his dying breath. And he will give us the strength to do so too! As he said, be of good cheer, I have overcome the world! .
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 18:02:22 GMT -5
Snow, hell is what we make it. It's our own lusts and desires and the further into these lusts were go, the further away from God we go. We do it to ourselves. Any love, in any of our hearts, I believe is from God. But you don't see it like me because you don't believe that there is any existence after life, and that no God exists. Hell seems to be on your mind a lot when it comes to God. Yet to you hell didn't exist, so it should mean nothing to you? I post on a board where most of the people believe in a God and therefore hell. When people tell me their God is a God of love I remind them of hell. Doesn't really cross my mind for the most part. The whole concept of hell makes no sense to me. But I get told by those who do believe that I am going there. No you, you haven't, but you seem to be the exception. So you think hell is a state of mind and has nothing to do with an actual place? Is heaven a state of mind also and there is no such thing as judgement at the end of life by God? From what you are saying because I am happy, feel love and compassion, by state of mind would be heaven when I die, not hell? In Buddhism peace comes from not having expectations etc. Is this similar to what you mean when you talk about our lusts and desires. They believe Nirvana is the end to desire and a type of merging with the 'whole'. As long as you continue to have expectations and desires you continue on the cycle of lives. I don't know exactly what hell or heaven are like, but I believe that what you do in this lifetime, affects the next. I believe that when we hear the true word of God we have a choice, whether we listen or not. God and God only is our judge, no man. Not one person in this world can say your going to hell. Because they are then becoming your judges and they are not God! Were not allowed to judge one another like that, the only way we can judge of by bringing the word of God to others. We must leave things like heaven and hell in Gods hands. And concentrate at looking at our own sins (because we have plenty ourselves) and not just keep picking at others!
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Post by snow on Jul 11, 2015 18:30:29 GMT -5
I post on a board where most of the people believe in a God and therefore hell. When people tell me their God is a God of love I remind them of hell. Doesn't really cross my mind for the most part. The whole concept of hell makes no sense to me. But I get told by those who do believe that I am going there. No you, you haven't, but you seem to be the exception. So you think hell is a state of mind and has nothing to do with an actual place? Is heaven a state of mind also and there is no such thing as judgement at the end of life by God? From what you are saying because I am happy, feel love and compassion, by state of mind would be heaven when I die, not hell? In Buddhism peace comes from not having expectations etc. Is this similar to what you mean when you talk about our lusts and desires. They believe Nirvana is the end to desire and a type of merging with the 'whole'. As long as you continue to have expectations and desires you continue on the cycle of lives. I don't know exactly what hell or heaven are like, but I believe that what you do in this lifetime, affects the next. I believe that when we hear the true word of God we have a choice, whether we listen or not. God and God only is our judge, no man. Not one person in this world can say your going to hell. Because they are then becoming your judges and they are not God! Were not allowed to judge one another like that, the only way we can judge of by bringing the word of God to others. We must leave things like heaven and hell in Gods hands. And concentrate at looking at our own sins (because we have plenty ourselves) and not just keep picking at others! You had made the comment that hell was what you made it. I'm interested in hearing what you mean by that. Also, is heaven what you make it too? If this is the case and hell is what you make it, what role would God have in anything then? Obviously I'm a bit confused by your previous answer and what you have answered now.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 11, 2015 19:14:16 GMT -5
Maryhig, if the crucifixion was not God's plan for Jesus why did He not stop it? Why did he allow evil men to have their own way and kill His Son? Because i believe it was Gods plan that Jesus should come and bring us the truth, and to show Gods love and deny the sins of the world to show us the way, the truth and the life. I believe Jesus had to endure to the end, and take whatever Satan threw at him and show love, forgiveness and mercy thus overcoming Satan completely. If God had of stopped it, Satan would have overcome Jesus. So Jesus had to go through everything right up to the end of his life to overcome Satan and God foreknew what Satan would do to Jesus and it was prophesied in the old testament. So Jesus came and denied sin, the world and Satan until his dying breath. And he will give us the strength to do so too! As he said, be of good cheer, I have overcome the world! . What love?
We have just been talking about the God of the OT who certainly didn't mind killing his whole creation except for a few on a mythical ark; A God who ordered the killing of whole generations of a people!
Numbers 31:17 Samuel 15:3
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Post by maryhig on Jul 11, 2015 19:26:21 GMT -5
I don't know exactly what hell or heaven are like, but I believe that what you do in this lifetime, affects the next. I believe that when we hear the true word of God we have a choice, whether we listen or not. God and God only is our judge, no man. Not one person in this world can say your going to hell. Because they are then becoming your judges and they are not God! Were not allowed to judge one another like that, the only way we can judge of by bringing the word of God to others. We must leave things like heaven and hell in Gods hands. And concentrate at looking at our own sins (because we have plenty ourselves) and not just keep picking at others! You had made the comment that hell was what you made it. I'm interested in hearing what you mean by that. Also, is heaven what you make it too? If this is the case and hell is what you make it, what role would God have in anything then? Obviously I'm a bit confused by your previous answer and what you have answered now. I believe it's all to do about God, and that what we do in this lifetime we are judged on. God gives us a chance to know him, he will let us know in our hearts what's right and wrong, and we have a choice. if we purposely do wrong things we are judged on that, and I believe that Satan tempts us in the heart to do these wrong things. I believe our conscience is from God, and we are judged in which way we go, whether we listen to what's right or what's wrong. And Jesus came and showed us the way. And if we follow him he will give us strength, through the holy spirit to overcome Satan. Sorry I'm tired, I have to go to sleep, it's 1.30am
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