Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 15:56:07 GMT -5
When the friends speak of a perfect way, do they mean God's eternal plan or their own belief system of workers, friends and meetings? Or do they speak of a mix of both? Often they have gone to great lengths to make sure their is an image of perfection.
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Post by fixit on Jun 29, 2015 17:22:32 GMT -5
...The lowly path the Saviour trod.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 29, 2015 17:36:43 GMT -5
...The lowly path the Saviour trod. "The lowly path the Savior trod" doesn't answer the question -- it's as negotiable as the expression "the perfect way". I'd put money on the possibility that a 2x2 would describe the 2x2 system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 18:47:41 GMT -5
Jesus is the way, and Jesus is perfect so we love the perfect way, some love the fellowship too even though it is not perfect; well that is how I see it anyway.
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Post by Greg on Jun 29, 2015 19:07:42 GMT -5
When the friends speak of a perfect way, do they mean God's eternal plan or their own belief system of workers, friends and meetings? Or do they speak of a mix of both? Often they have gone to great lengths to make sure their is an image of perfection. Don't get specific. Just accept it . . . or don't.
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Post by xna on Jun 29, 2015 19:22:55 GMT -5
When the friends speak of a perfect way, do they mean God's eternal plan or their own belief system of workers, friends and meetings? Or do they speak of a mix of both? Often they have gone to great lengths to make sure their is an image of perfection. Perfect changed, is not perfect.
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Post by learning on Jun 30, 2015 10:56:20 GMT -5
When the friends speak of a perfect way, do they mean God's eternal plan or their own belief system of workers, friends and meetings? Or do they speak of a mix of both? Often they have gone to great lengths to make sure their is an image of perfection. Ask some directly and find out! (I can't help but feel like we are talking about these "friends" like a mysterious beast at the zoo or something...) I have, and I ask myself that question and related questions frequently to make sure I am being genuine in my feelings and speech. When I have asked some directly, some have reacted to my question with surprise and they genuinely intend to refer to the choices and pattern of Jesus life. Others have responded that, as you are likely implying, they refer to the choices and patterns of this fellowship. The latter do seem to draw a direct correlation between the choices and patterns of Jesus and the fellowship.
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julio
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Post by julio on Jul 1, 2015 19:01:38 GMT -5
We heard at convention recently that when the "Truth" is capitalized it means Jesus. Jesus is the Way. There is a way of fellowship, but that is not "The Way" - Jesus is the Way, Jesus is the Truth, Jesus is Life. I love that clarification.
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Post by snow on Jul 1, 2015 20:33:02 GMT -5
Maybe for the same reason most Christians ignore the OT except for the parts they agree with and live with. Religion is a pick and choose what works. Not saying that is a bad thing really, just seems very much how it works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 10:33:11 GMT -5
Jesus spoke against parts of the OT. IT IS FINISHED. The veil of the temple has been rent in train, has it not? I think the perfect way stuff invited the fellowship to so much criticism when some problem arises. Julio, good thought from convention.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 13:52:33 GMT -5
If I go by the biblical definition of "perfect" as "whole, complete," rather than the modern Engish meaning, "without flaw," then several thoughts helpful to me quickly arise. I will not raise those thoughts that come to my mind in THIS forum thread.
However there are some thoughts I will raise, for me, some workers and friends have been for me "complete" enough for me to think of them as "perfect" just as others come to my mind outside their group. Do I like thinking of those so far from this description? Absolutely not, however those unwilling to face up to such thoughts answer only for themselves, even as I for my expressed thoughts.
As to any way (method/system) actually being whole and complete other than the being I have come to know as my Yahu'shuah ha Meshshiac, for me there no longer is any, anywhere, anyway. Yes I know some wish to assert otherwise. I simply do not.
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Post by Mary on Jul 2, 2015 17:10:28 GMT -5
Perfect changed, is not perfect. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever. His Way (apostolic Itinerant ministry) and Truth (New Testament teaching/and way of Sunday morning worship) is perfect. There is no need for change of Jesus perfect Way and Truth. Like the Pearl! It's perfect as it is, man does not need to do anything to improve it. Leave as it is.... You will ruin the pearl if you try to improve it. God has perfected the pearl Himself, there is no room for improvement.
There's a constant need for improvement of the imperfect people/friends and workers but no room for change the Perfect WAY of Pattern and Truth which is found Jesus.
Not His way Nathan, but he is the way. Do you not see the difference. And it obviously was not his way to the gentiles if you read Matthew 10 and Luke 22 again. You are presenting another gospel. A Jesus + ministry + home meetings. Jesus never told anyone to meet in homes, he went to the temple and they continued to go to the temple daily for prayer after the resurrection. The way was also Jesus not Jesus + anything. There is no need to change Jesus, the way the truth and the life. Not there is no need to change Jesus, the way and truth when he was the way and truth. You are twisting the words in the Bible. Jesus said I am the way..... not a ministry is the way. Nathan they collected money for the poor saints when they were gathered together on the first day of the week. Churches have traditionally done it on the first day of the week when they are gathered together. A worker asking for money? Enlighten me!!
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Post by Mary on Jul 2, 2015 18:50:33 GMT -5
Nathan, nothing you have written shows me that Jesus himself plus something else is the way. The Bible tells me it is Jesus who is the way. Not Jesus plus some ministry. The ministry spreads to Gospel, pastors the flock etc but they are not the way. Jesus is the way. If someone says we are the way, I would run a mile like I have. The hymn says Jesus only is our message yet the workers preach they are the message. We should say Jesus is the way, not Jesus plus 'us' is the way. We are only human vessels that God uses to bring his message.
Jesus is the way.
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Post by snow on Jul 2, 2015 19:23:16 GMT -5
2,400 years ago the Tao Te Ching was written by a Chinese sage. The Tao loosely translated means The Way. Makes you wonder if Jesus had heard of these teachings then he said he was the Way? Just me thinking about stuff again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 19:27:16 GMT -5
Thank you, Ross. And now, by what I know a koine Greek definition of perfect being, whole, complete, I know of several friends and workers who I consider "perfect" in a very "imperfect system or way. Also, along with many of them, I know many other perple outside that group who I now consider the same way. Whole, complete people in an imperfect way, yet my Lor as a being is completely perfect in ever way as my door to His fold of many in all stages of growth and development! Thanks again...
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