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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 8:36:22 GMT -5
How is anyone to grow as a person if their past is forever brought up?
Is there any such thing as forgiveness of others past mistakes, on this board or among the friends and workers?
The bible says we will be forgiven as we forgive. Do others on this board believe this.
There are things that need to be brought to light and there are things that need to be forgotten.
I fear some people on this board and in meeting do not ever want to forgive or forget anything. Forgiveness is a gift we give to ourselves when we let things go.
Do we want more people associated with "TRUTH" to kill themselves because of what is put on the internet because they fear of what others think of them?
Is this board going to hold people responsible for what they did as teenagers when they were immature, for the rest of their lives?
We live in a world that has no forgiveness for certain people and all the forgiveness for others depending on how much money they have and what political party they belong to.
Have I always forgiven. No. The older I get and the more I see, the more I realize how much forgiveness I need and how can I hold others to a higher standard then myself. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse the only way I could heal is to forgive. I hope you do not read this as a condemnation of any of you, but as encouragement for you to think about others and their burdens before you add to them. You never know when your added burden will break another person.
There are ways to address issues with kindness and compassion even when they are as horrible as abuse.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 12:52:14 GMT -5
forgiving(not requiring repayment for offense) is easy however forgetting is harder and if we forget sometimes that leads to new offenses being committed...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 14:26:39 GMT -5
What I find so interesting that this board is that it is call the "Truth meeting board" but when someone brings up something spiritual no one responses. Bring up something of that puts an other person down and we have pages up on pages of responses.
Is there a place for spiritual discussion on this board.
Not one person: friend, ex or worker had hope beyond this life with out forgiveness from God. Jesus said we are not forgiven unless we forgive others.
Wally are we not to forgive 7 x 70 in a day? Do you think God had the power to help us forget?
Repentance is not doing again what we have been forgiven for.
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Post by maryhig on Jun 23, 2015 16:41:48 GMT -5
What I find so interesting that this board is that it is call the "Truth meeting board" but when someone brings up something spiritual no one responses. Bring up something of that puts an other person down and we have pages up on pages of responses. Is there a place for spiritual discussion on this board. Not one person: friend, ex or worker had hope beyond this life with out forgiveness from God. Jesus said we are not forgiven unless we forgive others. Wally are we not to forgive 7 x 70 in a day? Do you think God had the power to help us forget? Repentance is not doing again what we have been forgiven for. Marie, I was thinking about the forgiving 7x70 times as I read your posts that's why I don't like to condemn people or say they are unsaved etc. How do we know what God has planned for anyone? I'm sure many of the deciples could have thought Paul was unsaved at one time. And i wonder what people thought of the woman who was to be stoned, the man in the tombs, the thief on the cross, the woman at the well (who even the deciples didn't think Jesus should talk to!), the blind beggar, the tax collector, the centurion who's servant was healed, etc. etc. People that many would look at and call unsaved, but Jesus saw a different heart. Healing and saving as he went town to town bringing God to the people. Many who would have been rejected or looked down at by others were the ones that believed and followed him. Theres hope for everyone, no matter who they are, and only God knows the hearts of everyone. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life" and the only way to God is to follow Jesus. Because he lived the perfect life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 16:46:26 GMT -5
What I find so interesting that this board is that it is call the "Truth meeting board" but when someone brings up something spiritual no one responses. Bring up something of that puts an other person down and we have pages up on pages of responses. Is there a place for spiritual discussion on this board. Not one person: friend, ex or worker had hope beyond this life with out forgiveness from God. Jesus said we are not forgiven unless we forgive others. Wally are we not to forgive 7 x 70 in a day? Do you think God had the power to help us forget? Repentance is not doing again what we have been forgiven for. true were suppose to forgive 7 x 70 I don't know if forgetting is part of that equation or not...I've yet to be able to forget what has happened to me in the past even though I try very hard...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 16:58:29 GMT -5
One thing often over looked about forgiveness, it is received by a biblical formula, which the Lord included by the attributed word "if."
Now, with grace that simply isn't so.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Jun 23, 2015 19:57:51 GMT -5
True, total, complete forgiveness brings healing.
There are some things that are difficult to forget. And other things seem to be impossible to forget. But I think healing has occurred when a person can remember something without having a negative feeling associated with the memory. Also, I think it's a sign that healing has taken place when a person stops dwelling on the past hurtful things that have happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 20:25:30 GMT -5
i like your thoughts marie i for myself having also abused have been able to forgive and forget [ not on my mind] but brought to mind when others speak of] but God through His grace has allowed me to block it from my mind there are many things that happen on this board which can be taken to heart and affect our spirit but we know God has truth and we can have peace in that
showing kindness to those who persecute you. Romans 12:14King James Version (KJV)
14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 20:26:37 GMT -5
True, total, complete forgiveness brings healing. There are some things that are difficult to forget. And other things seem to be impossible to forget. But I think healing has occurred when a person can remember something without having a negative feeling associated with the memory. Also, I think it's a sign that healing has taken place when a person stops dwelling on the past hurtful things that have happened. and God is a very real help in healing
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 23, 2015 21:18:14 GMT -5
Marie-I think forgiveness is huge-huge in how it affects people, and huge in the role it plays in the healing process. Usually, when forgiveness is needed, healing is ALSO needed. I could probably write a dissertation on healing, but will spare the readers... But there are many analogies with physical wound healing that can be applied to emotional, spiritual, and mental wound healing. My thoughts on the subject are many. But, I will say this: we can be fooled into thinking we are all healed up and all better when really, we are not. We may think we have forgiven, but have not. We may think we are forgiven, but find out we haven't been forgiven. Time and HONESTY tell the story. Another thing, you cannot FORCE someone to genuinely forgive. Sure, we can try to make everyone kiss and make up after something hurtful has happened, but complete forgiveness is neither rushed nor forced. Many folks are simply impatient and/or not willing to do what it takes to bring about forgiveness. Wounds need tending to. A tendency, however is to simply avoid wounds, and also avoid what can be done to help heal a wound. Another tendency is to cover up a wound; not look at it; not 'deal' with it. Also, some folks keep picking at their wounds and won't let them heal. There is a good balance to be had: tend to the wound to an extent to promote healing, but don't keep picking at it and re-opening old hurts. It truly is a beautiful thing when true forgiveness has occurred and then a person is finally at liberty to move forward. My thoughts on those who have been abused: they are likely not going to heal or forgive if they keep having hurt inflicted upon them. In these cases, they probably need to STOP exposing themselves to being hurt. This may mean getting out of a hurtful relationship or a hurtful environment and instead placing oneself in an environment that promotes healing. So, CHANGE is often involved. Some folks don't like change.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Jun 23, 2015 22:29:35 GMT -5
Anyone who has lived at all will need to deal with needing to forgive others and needing to be forgiven by others...but there is also this thing of tending to the 'wounded'. The 'wounded' are hurting. They need help, but maybe have come to realize that the help they need is just not there. That's a terrible place to be and a lonely place. I don't have all the answers for that one, for sure, but I can just encourage others to not give up on healing even when others have given up helping them. Fact of the matter is, people can grow very weary of someone who just doesn't seem to heal and move forward? I know at times I have been that person that needed healing and healing wasn't coming any time too soon. I've had doctors give up on me and tell me: "There's nothing more I can do for you." I've had friends tell me something similar. I've had family members do that same thing...until I felt I was all alone with no one able to help me. It's an icky place to be. But, I persevered somehow and made a vow to myself not to abandon others who were wounded and needing help. No, I am not on any special mission to go out and heal everyone that needs healing, for that would be impossible if not insane. But, if there is someone I can help, I want to do so, for I know what it's like to be abandoned just when you need help the most. You feel forsaken. *sigh*
Sometimes it feels like it will never ever heal. It can FEEL that way. Maybe someone has told you they have forgiven you, but you STILL don't feel forgiven. Why is that, I wonder? Also, in reality there is getting to be fewer and fewer people who truly wish to take on the healing of some of most perplexing wounds. And I say, even when no one seems to be able to help you or wish to help you, don't give up. Don't give up hope. Don't give up searching for answers!!
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 24, 2015 0:00:27 GMT -5
As this thread is somehow tied in with healing>>>some folks have a special gift for healing. And, just as our Light should not be hidden under a bushel, perhaps our gifts should not lay around un-used.
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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 1:01:56 GMT -5
Just to be clear: Anyone who has lived at all will need to deal with needing to forgive others and needing to be forgiven by others...but there is also this thing of tending to the 'wounded'. The 'wounded' are hurting. They need help, but maybe have come to realize that the help they need is just not there. That's a terrible place to be and a lonely place. I don't have all the answers for that one, for sure, but I can just encourage others to not give up on healing even when others have given up helping them. Fact of the matter is, people can grow very weary of someone who just doesn't seem to heal and move forward? I know at times I have been that person that needed healing and healing wasn't coming any time too soon. I've had doctors give up on me and tell me: "There's nothing more I can do for you." I've had friends tell me something similar. I've had family members do that same thing...until I felt I was all alone with no one able to help me. It's an icky place to be. But, I persevered somehow and made a vow to myself not to abandon others who were wounded and needing help. No, I am not on any special mission to go out and heal everyone that needs healing, for that would be impossible if not insane. But, if there is someone I can help, I want to do so, for I know what it's like to be abandoned just when you need help the most. You feel forsaken. *sigh* Sometimes it feels like it will never ever heal. It can FEEL that way. Maybe someone has told you they have forgiven you, but you STILL don't feel forgiven. Why is that, I wonder? Also, in reality there is getting to be fewer and fewer people who truly wish to take on the healing of some of most perplexing wounds. And I say, even when no one seems to be able to help you or wish to help you, don't give up. Don't give up hope. Don't give up searching for answers!!
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Post by maryhig on Jun 24, 2015 2:42:52 GMT -5
What I find so interesting that this board is that it is call the "Truth meeting board" but when someone brings up something spiritual no one responses. Bring up something of that puts an other person down and we have pages up on pages of responses. Is there a place for spiritual discussion on this board. Not one person: friend, ex or worker had hope beyond this life with out forgiveness from God. Jesus said we are not forgiven unless we forgive others. Wally are we not to forgive 7 x 70 in a day? Do you think God had the power to help us forget? Repentance is not doing again what we have been forgiven for. true were suppose to forgive 7 x 70 I don't know if forgetting is part of that equation or not...I've yet to be able to forget what has happened to me in the past even though I try very hard... I used to think like that Wally and I used to say, I can forgive but I can't forget. And I would go over and over all the pain and suffering I have been through letting my mind take over, torturing myself all over again and end up crying and my poor husband would sit and listen whilst I poured it all out, again. And then he'd get upset. Then one day I thought to myself. That no matter what has happened to me, at least I have forgiven them. And it came into my heart that if I had truly forgiven them, then I wouldn't keep dragging it up, time after time and I would be starting to try and forget. And it was hard, but I prayed and asked God to help me. After that day, whenever those times came into my head, I'd block them out and think of something good. Now I can talk a bit about it without that pain inside. I just don't think too deeply about what happened anymore because if i do i know it will come back. (I see it as Satan torturing me, so I try not to let him in). That feeling of deep hurt is now gone! And I feel free and my mind is clear instead of tormented! And I have empathy for many people because of what I've been through, and I hope that God forgives them for what they did to me too! It's wonderful to have a clear heart and mind, at last!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 24, 2015 3:05:28 GMT -5
One of the worrying aspects to me about this is that a person could feel obligated to forgive and forget someone who has abused them, perhaps sexually and that person then goes onto commit more crime. Along with forgiveness there is a need for repentance but as some of the need for forgiveness for sin alluded to here is criminal offence and not a spiritual sin then the best course of action is to report crime where appropriate. It may also be necessary to mention the criminal and his/her actions publically so that others may be warned. I have seen time and time again, criminals up before the beak telling the judge how sorry they were (in the hope of a reduced sentence) Repentance needs to be shown by works and that in some cases that are well known amongst the workers and friends is not apparent and quite the opposite in fact.
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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 8:17:09 GMT -5
true were suppose to forgive 7 x 70 I don't know if forgetting is part of that equation or not...I've yet to be able to forget what has happened to me in the past even though I try very hard... I used to think like that Wally and I used to say, I can forgive but I can't forget. And I would go over and over all the pain and suffering I have been through letting my mind take over, torturing myself all over again and end up crying and my poor husband would sit and listen whilst I poured it all out, again. And then he'd get upset. Then one day I thought to myself. That no matter what has happened to me, at least I have forgiven them. And it came into my heart that if I had truly forgiven them, then I wouldn't keep dragging it up, time after time and I would be starting to try and forget. And it was hard, but I prayed and asked God to help me. After that day, whenever those times came into my head, I'd block them out and think of something good. Now I can talk a bit about it without that pain inside. I just don't think too deeply about what happened anymore because if i do i know it will come back. (I see it as Satan torturing me, so I try not to let him in). That feeling of deep hurt is now gone! And I feel free :) and my mind is clear instead of tormented! And I have empathy for many people because of what I've been through, and I hope that God forgives them for what they did to me too! It's wonderful to have a clear heart and mind, at last! As you have stated, it is not gone only repressed. From a mental health view - how healthy do you think this sort of repression is? Repression is considered by many to be one of the major aspects of psychoanalysis, a major contributor to poor mental health. As you noted, unless dealt with, it is always there, lurking and waiting for the mind to stop and consider it on a conscious level.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 8:22:27 GMT -5
Check out this video on YouTube: youtu.be/MX0cmUj4hvwFather forgive them for they know not what they do, very touching.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 8:42:16 GMT -5
I used to think like that Wally and I used to say, I can forgive but I can't forget. And I would go over and over all the pain and suffering I have been through letting my mind take over, torturing myself all over again and end up crying and my poor husband would sit and listen whilst I poured it all out, again. And then he'd get upset. Then one day I thought to myself. That no matter what has happened to me, at least I have forgiven them. And it came into my heart that if I had truly forgiven them, then I wouldn't keep dragging it up, time after time and I would be starting to try and forget. And it was hard, but I prayed and asked God to help me. After that day, whenever those times came into my head, I'd block them out and think of something good. Now I can talk a bit about it without that pain inside. I just don't think too deeply about what happened anymore because if i do i know it will come back. (I see it as Satan torturing me, so I try not to let him in). That feeling of deep hurt is now gone! And I feel free and my mind is clear instead of tormented! And I have empathy for many people because of what I've been through, and I hope that God forgives them for what they did to me too! It's wonderful to have a clear heart and mind, at last! As you have stated, it is not gone only repressed. From a mental health view - how healthy do you think this sort of repression is? Repression is considered by many to be one of the major aspects of psychoanalysis, a major contributor to poor mental health. As you noted, unless dealt with, it is always there, lurking and waiting for the mind to stop and consider it on a conscious level. Yes I believe that if repression/suppression is not dealt with properly/ adequately it could very well lead to a far deeper mental depression. Better to let off some of the steam or run the risk of an explosion.
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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 10:12:54 GMT -5
As you have stated, it is not gone only repressed. From a mental health view - how healthy do you think this sort of repression is? Repression is considered by many to be one of the major aspects of psychoanalysis, a major contributor to poor mental health. As you noted, unless dealt with, it is always there, lurking and waiting for the mind to stop and consider it on a conscious level. Yes I believe that if repression/suppression is not dealt with properly/ adequately it could very well lead to a far deeper mental depression. Better to let off some of the steam or run the risk of an explosion. As maryhig has discovered for herself, 'letting off steam' does not solve the repression issue. Blaming Satan for the surfacing of the repressed thoughts/ideas/incidents also is not the solution. It is amazing what people are able to repress in the name of religion.
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Post by maryhig on Jun 24, 2015 11:04:29 GMT -5
I used to think like that Wally and I used to say, I can forgive but I can't forget. And I would go over and over all the pain and suffering I have been through letting my mind take over, torturing myself all over again and end up crying and my poor husband would sit and listen whilst I poured it all out, again. And then he'd get upset. Then one day I thought to myself. That no matter what has happened to me, at least I have forgiven them. And it came into my heart that if I had truly forgiven them, then I wouldn't keep dragging it up, time after time and I would be starting to try and forget. And it was hard, but I prayed and asked God to help me. After that day, whenever those times came into my head, I'd block them out and think of something good. Now I can talk a bit about it without that pain inside. I just don't think too deeply about what happened anymore because if i do i know it will come back. (I see it as Satan torturing me, so I try not to let him in). That feeling of deep hurt is now gone! And I feel free and my mind is clear instead of tormented! And I have empathy for many people because of what I've been through, and I hope that God forgives them for what they did to me too! It's wonderful to have a clear heart and mind, at last! As you have stated, it is not gone only repressed. From a mental health view - how healthy do you think this sort of repression is? Repression is considered by many to be one of the major aspects of psychoanalysis, a major contributor to poor mental health. As you noted, unless dealt with, it is always there, lurking and waiting for the mind to stop and consider it on a conscious level. No really rational, it's gone. The reason I don't like to think about it now is because I feel I was very foolish to put up with what I did, and I don't like to dwell on my past anymore, it's unhealthy, my life has totally changed and i don't need think about those things anymore! It did take a long time for me to come to terms with everything. But I have, I'm now at peace in my heart.
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Post by rational on Jun 24, 2015 13:01:01 GMT -5
No really rational, it's gone. The reason I don't like to think about it now is because I feel I was very foolish to put up with what I did, and I don't like to dwell on my past anymore, it's unhealthy, my life has totally changed and i don't need think about those things anymore! It did take a long time for me to come to terms with everything. But I have, I'm now at peace in my heart. :) I was responding to your statement: I just don't think too deeply about what happened anymore because if i do i know it will come back.If it's coming back it sounded like repression to me. Since it consists only of your memories and thoughts, where do you think it 'lives' if it can come back? maryhig - I don't know you and our communication off-line was about other topics. I am not looking for a specific answer - just posing the question following your post.
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 24, 2015 13:08:28 GMT -5
I persevered somehow and made a vow to myself not to abandon others who were wounded and needing help. No, I am not on any special mission to go out and heal everyone that needs healing, for that would be impossible if not insane. But, if there is someone I can help, I want to do so, for I know what it's like to be abandoned just when you need help the most. You feel forsaken. *sigh*
This is like a situation in which a person 'turned things around' and made others' mistakes into gold...(so-to-speak)
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 24, 2015 13:13:34 GMT -5
One of the worrying aspects to me about this is that a person could feel obligated to forgive and forget someone who has abused them, perhaps sexually and that person then goes onto commit more crime. Along with forgiveness there is a need for repentance but as some of the need for forgiveness for sin alluded to here is criminal offence and not a spiritual sin then the best course of action is to report crime where appropriate. It may also be necessary to mention the criminal and his/her actions publically so that others may be warned. I have seen time and time again, criminals up before the beak telling the judge how sorry they were (in the hope of a reduced sentence) Repentance needs to be shown by works and that in some cases that are well known amongst the workers and friends is not apparent and quite the opposite in fact. Good points! Yes, let none of us FORGET the importance of the REPENTANCE ASPECT in the forgiveness EQUATION. (I know this isn't a math problem, but that is what my brain often defaults to...)
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 24, 2015 13:29:02 GMT -5
Ok-Now it's time for me to blow off a little steam on that line of thinking that you just HAVE TO FORGIVE AND FORGET ( like NOW ) because that is what Jesus commanded etc, etc... I'm sorry, but so many folks leave off the OTHER part of the whole deal :: REPENTANCE. And what IS true repentance? It involves CHANGE....real change; lasting change; not just a temporary "ok, I'll behave myself for awhile"...
Also, people often easily resort to "I've apologized, therefore you must automatically forgive me and forget about it." ...That is what I call: STINKIN' THINKIN'.
And, I don't care how much somone might get up and preach about the need to forgive.
There is just as IMPORTANT NEED to REPENT!!
It really pisses me off when someone uses religion and Scripture to propagate theie true inner intention of not really changing. (they actually don't want to change, or may not have a true desire to change...) But, if someone is truly repentant it is followed by true change. Automatically forgiving someone regardless of what they do is enabling them to continue on with hurtful, destructive, behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 13:35:57 GMT -5
Ma'am, this is what was in my mind with my forgoing post. The Lord said, "if, when, your brother tresspasses against you, rebuke him. IF he repents, forgive him.". Many simply do not believe they are forgiven, simply because they do not repent, rethink, turn from that course in all meekness and humility before the one they have so wrongly injured.
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Post by bitterbetty on Jun 24, 2015 13:44:22 GMT -5
As you have stated, it is not gone only repressed. From a mental health view - how healthy do you think this sort of repression is? Repression is considered by many to be one of the major aspects of psychoanalysis, a major contributor to poor mental health. As you noted, unless dealt with, it is always there, lurking and waiting for the mind to stop and consider it on a conscious level. Yes I believe that if repression/suppression is not dealt with properly/ adequately it could very well lead to a far deeper mental depression. Better to let off some of the steam or run the risk of an explosion. hmmmmm. Yes, oppression, suppression, repression. (not necessarily in that order).
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Jun 24, 2015 13:57:19 GMT -5
What I find so interesting that this board is that it is call the "Truth meeting board" but when someone brings up something spiritual no one responses. Bring up something of that puts an other person down and we have pages up on pages of responses. Is there a place for spiritual discussion on this board. Not one person: friend, ex or worker had hope beyond this life with out forgiveness from God. Jesus said we are not forgiven unless we forgive others. Wally are we not to forgive 7 x 70 in a day? Do you think God had the power to help us forget? Repentance is not doing again what we have been forgiven for. true were suppose to forgive 7 x 70 I don't know if forgetting is part of that equation or not...I've yet to be able to forget what has happened to me in the past even though I try very hard... True...I personally have not found anywhere in scripture that says and person is OBLIGATED to forget.
Rather, the offending party IS obligated to REPENT. (but that part of it seems to get left off...) uggh!
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Jun 24, 2015 14:14:31 GMT -5
I know what it's like to feel REPRESSED. It doesn't feel good...you feel as though your heart is going to burst...there is this ache...that's the best way I know how to describe it. And, when there are issues and hurts and wounds that are in need of healing and healing has not really occurred it can turn into a deep-seated WOUND that festers and causes all sorts of problems in the person who is wounded-including ONGOING pain. And, living with pain is a big problem...
But, maybe it is important to point out something (and this is just food for thought): We don't always REALIZE who it is that is [still] WOUNDED. We may think or assume someone is healed and 'all better' and it's all resolved, etc. When in FACT, all that has really happened is that pain is REPRESSED, the person is functioning on a certain level perhaps, but is all bottled up inside and in reality, is still very much wounded and hurting.
It's true that life happens and people get hurt. Maybe the person who inflicted that hurt feels SOOOOO bad about it that they in turn are hurting just as much as the one they hurt...other people who inflict hurt and/or pain don't seem to be as bothered about it.
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