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Post by Lee on May 21, 2015 1:22:42 GMT -5
I don't know anything about Lee (haven't been around as long as most of you), but his comment saddens me. I hope he'll rethink this. Dmg had a really good suggestion about him not having more kids. I concur. But one would hope that he would tell any female up front that this is his point of view. I've already had my two and I'm done. Thanks for the advise.
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Post by Lee on May 21, 2015 1:28:18 GMT -5
"To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?" (1 Cor 7:12-16) I think we've forgotten that Lee lives by the Gospel of Lee. It's not a story for the faint of heart... Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB.
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Post by whyisitso on May 21, 2015 1:41:03 GMT -5
You should post this. The thread would be more understandable (sorry, won't quote properly as I'm doing it off my mobile
snow said:And it's something that so called orthodox Christians sometimes do to spouses who declare they are atheists. If this video is supposed to be an example of cult like behavior then they too are guilty of this behavior with atheist spouses.
Lee said: If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands.
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Post by Lee on May 21, 2015 1:52:03 GMT -5
Intolerance minus intolerance equals zero and intolerance divided by zero is undefined. Atheists are acidic to life itself. As per usual, I don't know what the heck you're trying to say. I guess that's a good thing because I do get the feeling it wasn't good. Acidic is just as necessary for life and tolerance is necessary for a humane society. Tolerance is narrowly distinguished from accommodation. Whenever leftist-atheists cry for tolerance, its usually gratuitous. Generally its a demand for your accommodation to their political aims. Sometimes tolerance means the act or state of being gracious, large, and diplomatic, that's all well and good. Ideas aren't negotiable, however. The minute you do, they cease to be.
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Post by Lee on May 21, 2015 2:03:04 GMT -5
If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands. Exactly, and I'm sure you think you're justified in your intolerance too. This is a senseless response. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, no one could hold a view.
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Post by Lee on May 21, 2015 2:09:11 GMT -5
You should post this. The thread would be more understandable (sorry, won't quote properly as I'm doing it off my mobile snow said:And it's something that so called orthodox Christians sometimes do to spouses who declare they are atheists. If this video is supposed to be an example of cult like behavior then they too are guilty of this behavior with atheist spouses. Lee said: If I should remarry and have more children and she suddenly declares herself atheist she'll have a war on her hands. Thanks
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Post by snow on May 21, 2015 11:42:11 GMT -5
I think we've forgotten that Lee lives by the Gospel of Lee. It's not a story for the faint of heart... Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB. Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels.
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Post by snow on May 21, 2015 11:46:26 GMT -5
As per usual, I don't know what the heck you're trying to say. I guess that's a good thing because I do get the feeling it wasn't good. Acidic is just as necessary for life and tolerance is necessary for a humane society. Tolerance is narrowly distinguished from accommodation. Whenever leftist-atheists cry for tolerance, its usually gratuitous. Generally its a demand for your accommodation to their political aims. Sometimes tolerance means the act or state of being gracious, large, and diplomatic, that's all well and good. Ideas aren't negotiable, however. The minute you do, they cease to be. It always seems to be Christians that are trying to get special privileges for themselves without concern or tolerance for others who believe differently from them. Because there are so many religions and beliefs out there, it makes sense that a system is in place that helps protect them all, not make one more special over the others. Ideas are always negotiable, why do you feel they are not?
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Post by snow on May 21, 2015 11:48:41 GMT -5
Exactly, and I'm sure you think you're justified in your intolerance too. This is a senseless response. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, no one could hold a view. Holding a view and acting on it without having compassion or tolerance for another's view are two very different things. I would hope that if you go into a marriage with anyone that you will let them before hand what to expect if they ever lose their belief in God. I am not saying you can't have a view, but it's only right that any woman you get involved with should be warned don't you think?
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Post by emy on May 21, 2015 21:23:09 GMT -5
Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB. Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels. Snow, you usually read carefully so this surprises me. Lee wasn't saying hostility toward his God, or any other. He was saying hostility to a belief in God.
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Post by fixit on May 21, 2015 21:31:47 GMT -5
Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels. Snow, you usually read carefully so this surprises me. Lee wasn't saying hostility toward his God, or any other. He was saying hostility to a belief in God. He was also saying hostility towards a non belief in God.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 22, 2015 0:04:06 GMT -5
This is Lee's post:
"Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB."
Doesn't Lee mean that those of us who don't believe in god are guilty of being "hostile" to a "belief?" I agree with what snow said, "how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in?" It was also the first thing that came to my mind when I read Lee's post.
How can one be "hostile" towards something that they don't even believe exists?
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Post by What Hat on May 22, 2015 2:37:29 GMT -5
Exactly, and I'm sure you think you're justified in your intolerance too. This is a senseless response. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, no one could hold a view. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, everyone could hold a view, and feel free to speak it. (I doubt any atheists close to you would feel free to speak theirs.)
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Post by snow on May 22, 2015 10:55:21 GMT -5
Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels. Snow, you usually read carefully so this surprises me. Lee wasn't saying hostility toward his God, or any other. He was saying hostility to a belief in God. Yes, it is hostility toward the belief in God, you're right. I guess I took it as one and the same. You would need to believe in God, perhaps Allah, in order to have hostility towards the Christian God for example. Since I don't believe in the existence of any Gods, I don't see that as being hostile against any 'belief' in God. I am no more hostile against the 'belief' in Allah or Zeus or Jehovah. I do have a problem with some of the behaviors that arise from their beliefs but not in the fact that they do have a belief in God. Does that make sense, Emy? I'm afraid I'm not explaining well.
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Post by rational on May 22, 2015 11:19:19 GMT -5
Yes, it is hostility toward the belief in God, you're right. I guess I took it as one and the same. You would need to believe in God, perhaps Allah, in order to have hostility towards the Christian God for example. Since I don't believe in the existence of any Gods, I don't see that as being hostile against any 'belief' in God. I am no more hostile against the 'belief' in Allah or Zeus or Jehovah. I do have a problem with some of the behaviors that arise from their beliefs but not in the fact that they do have a belief in God. Does that make sense, Emy? I'm afraid I'm not explaining well. Not sure I see the hostility towards a belief in any paranormal being. What another individual believes in is not my concern unless they attempt to impose their beliefs on others. I think the hostility in that case is only against the person imposing their beliefs. I feel the same if I am invited to dinner and it evolves into an Usana, Cyberwize, Amway, Nikken, Arbonne, Melaleuca, Free Life, Herbalife, Nuskin, Reliv, or Your Travel Business presentation.
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Post by snow on May 22, 2015 11:48:54 GMT -5
Yes, it is hostility toward the belief in God, you're right. I guess I took it as one and the same. You would need to believe in God, perhaps Allah, in order to have hostility towards the Christian God for example. Since I don't believe in the existence of any Gods, I don't see that as being hostile against any 'belief' in God. I am no more hostile against the 'belief' in Allah or Zeus or Jehovah. I do have a problem with some of the behaviors that arise from their beliefs but not in the fact that they do have a belief in God. Does that make sense, Emy? I'm afraid I'm not explaining well. Not sure I see the hostility towards a belief in any paranormal being. What another individual believes in is not my concern unless they attempt to impose their beliefs on others. I think the hostility in that case is only against the person imposing their beliefs. I feel the same if I am invited to dinner and it evolves into an Usana, Cyberwize, Amway, Nikken, Arbonne, Melaleuca, Free Life, Herbalife, Nuskin, Reliv, or Your Travel Business presentation. I meant that it was more what Lee meant. I don't feel hostility against anyone that believes or against any one of the various gods people believe in, just to be clear. I do fear the actions and outcomes of some of the beliefs though.
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Post by Gene on May 22, 2015 13:10:50 GMT -5
This is Lee's post: "Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB."
Doesn't Lee mean that those of us who don't believe in god are guilty of being "hostile" to a "belief?" I agree with what snow said, "how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in?" It was also the first thing that came to my mind when I read Lee's post.
How can one be "hostile" towards something that they don't even believe exists?
If I may, allow me to rephrase your last question so I'm sure I understand: "How can one be 'hostile' toward GOD if they don't even believe GOD exists?" Is that a fair representation of your question?
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Post by Lee on May 22, 2015 21:00:27 GMT -5
This is a senseless response. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, no one could hold a view. If everyone was infinitely tolerant, everyone could hold a view, and feel free to speak it. (I doubt any atheists close to you would feel free to speak theirs.) The atheists I know are superficially engaged with life like I am, in the day-to-day. If everyone were infinitely tolerant, in practice there would only be one view to hold: that there was none to hold, not with any gravitas or significance. In reality, our rights and views exist in tension with one another. Where religion would give us culture, a theory of a Creator, and a theory of who we are (at our best), the intent is to minimize the tension and instill a higher ethic, and recall something greater to celebrate and live by. Apart from a need for anarchism now and then so one can regroup ones mind or energy, atheists are acidic (caustic) to cultural progress.
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Post by Lee on May 22, 2015 21:14:57 GMT -5
Tolerance is narrowly distinguished from accommodation. Whenever leftist-atheists cry for tolerance, its usually gratuitous. Generally its a demand for your accommodation to their political aims. Sometimes tolerance means the act or state of being gracious, large, and diplomatic, that's all well and good. Ideas aren't negotiable, however. The minute you do, they cease to be. It always seems to be Christians that are trying to get special privileges for themselves without concern or tolerance for others who believe differently from them. Because there are so many religions and beliefs out there, it makes sense that a system is in place that helps protect them all, not make one more special over the others. Ideas are always negotiable, why do you feel they are not? We filter through ideas, of course. But when we arrive at ideas that are consonant with reality, it is our duty to own their political implications.
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Post by Lee on May 22, 2015 21:17:48 GMT -5
Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB. Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels. It makes them a liar. Its evident we did not create ourselves.
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Post by What Hat on May 22, 2015 22:36:04 GMT -5
If everyone was infinitely tolerant, everyone could hold a view, and feel free to speak it. (I doubt any atheists close to you would feel free to speak theirs.) The atheists I know are superficially engaged with life like I am, in the day-to-day. If everyone were infinitely tolerant, in practice there would only be one view to hold: that there was none, not with any gravitas or significance. In reality, our rights and views exist in tension with one another. Where religion would give us culture, a theory of a Creator, and a theory of who we are (at our best), the intent is to minimize the tension and instill a higher ethic, and recall something greater to celebrate and live by. Apart from a need for anarchism now and then so one can regroup ones mind or energy, atheists are acidic (caustic) to cultural progress. Not at all. Tolerance allows for diversity in thought. Innovation and progress are the result where there is such diversity.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 23, 2015 3:36:33 GMT -5
This is Lee's post: "Ideas direct us to life or death. One very bad idea with very bad consequences for mankind is hostility to a belief in God. That hostility characterizes the atheists of TMB."
Doesn't Lee mean that those of us who don't believe in god are guilty of being "hostile" to a "belief?" I agree with what snow said, "how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in?" It was also the first thing that came to my mind when I read Lee's post.
How can one be "hostile" towards something that they don't even believe exists?
If I may, allow me to rephrase your last question so I'm sure I understand: "How can one be 'hostile' toward GOD if they don't even believe GOD exists?" Is that a fair representation of your question? Yes, thanks, gene! I'm getting sleepy. (small "god" though! )
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Post by Gene on May 23, 2015 6:40:20 GMT -5
If I may, allow me to rephrase your last question so I'm sure I understand: "How can one be 'hostile' toward GOD if they don't even believe GOD exists?" Is that a fair representation of your question? Yes, thanks, gene! I'm getting sleepy. (small "god" though! )
Great! So here's the point: Sentence A below has an entirely different meaning than sentence B: A. The atheists on TMB are characterized by hostility to god. B. The atheists on TMB are characterized by hostility to a belief in god. I agree that only if a person believes in god can a person express hostility to god. But one can be hostile to virtually any belief, if one feels a particular belief is detrimental and dangerous.
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Post by rational on May 23, 2015 9:19:36 GMT -5
It makes them a liar. Its evident we did not create ourselves. Do you have evidence, actual verifiable evidence, to the contrary?
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Post by snow on May 23, 2015 11:20:02 GMT -5
Lee, how can anyone be hostile towards something they don't even believe in? I am not hostile towards any of the various Gods. They have all served a purpose as far as I can see. I just don't believe one actually exists. Doesn't make me a terrible person that you seem to feel I am because I don't believe in any Gods. Are you terrible because you no longer believe in all the other Gods other than the Christian God. Should you be viewed that way by Muslims for not believing in Allah? I don't see why you should, but you seem to think a non belief in a God makes a person 'nothings' and other derogatory labels. It makes them a liar. Its evident we did not create ourselves. What is not evident is that the Christian God had anything to do with it though. Out of all the Gods humans have worshiped and continue to worship, it's unlikely we will ever know which one is responsible for creation if any of them. I have no idea how what we see began, but we do know quite a bit about what happened after things were set in motion. Not believing in your God does not make anyone a liar. There needs to be absolute proof.
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Post by Lee on May 23, 2015 21:30:42 GMT -5
The atheists I know are superficially engaged with life like I am, in the day-to-day. If everyone were infinitely tolerant, in practice there would only be one view to hold: that there was none, not with any gravitas or significance. In reality, our rights and views exist in tension with one another. Where religion would give us culture, a theory of a Creator, and a theory of who we are (at our best), the intent is to minimize the tension and instill a higher ethic, and recall something greater to celebrate and live by. Apart from a need for anarchism now and then so one can regroup ones mind or energy, atheists are acidic (caustic) to cultural progress. Not at all. Tolerance allows for diversity in thought. Innovation and progress are the result where there is such diversity. Sometimes diversity means perversity; you don't believe that's possible, good atheist you are.
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Post by Lee on May 23, 2015 21:32:38 GMT -5
It makes them a liar. Its evident we did not create ourselves. Do you have evidence, actual verifiable evidence, to the contrary? Not that you'd accept but that's a symptom of your pathos.
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Post by Lee on May 23, 2015 21:34:42 GMT -5
It makes them a liar. Its evident we did not create ourselves. What is not evident is that the Christian God had anything to do with it though. Out of all the Gods humans have worshiped and continue to worship, it's unlikely we will ever know which one is responsible for creation if any of them. I have no idea how what we see began, but we do know quite a bit about what happened after things were set in motion. Not believing in your God does not make anyone a liar. There needs to be absolute proof. A dimensionally-bigger being can't be proven on your terms, if your terms are too local.
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