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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 9, 2015 21:23:09 GMT -5
So what you are really saying Nathan is you have no idea ! Unless you have lived with a person that has bi-polar 24/7 you are only guessing ! The same as unless you suffer mental illness yourself you have no idea! ~~ Well, you don't need to be the wind to know the wind exists, you can see the wind by the results of it. I see the symptom and the results of what a mental illness can do to people so I have some ideas.If mental illness is caused by people being possessed with demons, and the Friends & worker Way is the only right way why are there so many F & W with mental illness Nathan? They should all be cured of their demons. ~~ Mental illness is different than demon possessed... Most mental illness can be treated with medicine... Demon possessed can't be cured with medication but by/with much prayers, and fasting.
You must know the difference when a person is mentally ill or demon possessed.... They have similar convulsion, hearing voices in their heads.
Nathan, you said that people with mental illness are demon possessed now you are saying mental illness is different to demon possessed so which one is it ? Unless you have lived with someone who has a mental illness or suffered from mental illness Nathan, you have no idea ! Therefore how can you tell if someone has a mental illness or is demon possessed ?
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Post by rational on Apr 9, 2015 21:31:10 GMT -5
~~ In many cases in the gospel Jesus just prayed and cast out the demons without telling the victims to take any medication. No and he didn't suggest dapsone, rifampicin, or clofazimine for the treatment of Hansen's Disease because he had no clue regarding Mycobacterium lepromatosis or Mycobacterium leprae. Jesus also did not recommend phenobarbital for epilepsy because he did not know about either.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 9, 2015 22:37:51 GMT -5
So what you are really saying Nathan is you have no idea ! Unless you have lived with a person that has bi-polar 24/7 you are only guessing ! The same as unless you suffer mental illness yourself you have no idea! ~~ Well, you don't need to be the wind to know the wind exists, you can see the wind by the results of it. I see the symptom and the results of what a mental illness can do to people so I have some ideas.If mental illness is caused by people being possessed with demons, and the Friends & worker Way is the only right way why are there so many F & W with mental illness Nathan? They should all be cured of their demons. ~~ Mental illness is different than demon possessed... Most mental illness can be treated with medicine... Demon possessed can't be cured with medication but by/with much prayers, and fasting.
You must know the difference when a person is mentally ill or demon possessed.... They have similar convulsion, hearing voices in their heads.
Nathan, Are you saying that people who have "convulsions" & "hear voices in their heads" are "demon possessed?"
Or you are saying that they are either "mentally ill" or "demon possessed but one is mentally ill and the other demon possessed?
How can you tell the difference?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 9, 2015 23:24:25 GMT -5
Just ask Anneliese Michel. At the end of the exorcism her suffering was over. Satan and demons are NOT nice entities... They make people suffer, they will torture their bodies, with physical harms.... That is why Jesus sent out his apostles with power to cast out demons out of demon possessed people to release them from the prison of HELL holding on them by these evil entities. God had mercy on Anneliese's soul and save her from Satan physical, mental abused so He took her to his home. First of all, Nathan, it is hard to understand that there are people like you who still in this century believe such inconsiderate and cruel nonsense.
Second, these drugs for mental illness that you keep referring to, simply didn't exist at that time.
I know, -I had my psychiatric nurse's training at large city hospital, St Louis. Our treatment options were nothing compared to what is available today. "Anneliese Michel was a German woman who underwent Catholic exorcism rites in 1975 and died the next year, due to lack of medical care. Later investigation determined that she was malnourished and dehydrated; her parents and the priests responsible were charged with negligent homicide. The case attracted media and public attention because of the Catholic Church's unusual decision to employ the 400-year-old ritual of exorcism, something that had been rarely seen since the 18th Century. The film The Exorcism of Emily Rose is loosely based on her story. When Michel was sixteen, she experienced an epileptic seizure and was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy. She was determined to be depressed and was treated at a psychiatric hospital. By the time she was twenty, she had become intolerant of various religious objects, and began to hear voices. Her condition worsened, despite medication, and she became suicidal. Michel and her family became convinced she was possessed by demons, and appealed to a Catholic priest for an exorcism. While rejected at first, after much hesitation, two priests got permission from the local bishop in 1975, and performed exorcism rites on her for 10 months, in secret (as ordered by the bishop). After her death, Michel's parents and the two priests were found guilty of negligent homicide, and were sentenced to six months in jail (reduced to three years of probation), and a fine. The case has been cited as an example of a misidentified mental illness, negligence, abuse and religious hysteria."
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 9, 2015 23:35:45 GMT -5
~~ You don't need to have a mental illness to have an idea about the illness. There are books a person can learn from reading it, or you can understand by having someone close to you that have the illness themselves. There are many different types of mental illness out there. Here are signs of demons possessed...Descriptions of demonic possessions often include convulsions, "fits" and fainting as if one were dying. Other descriptions include access to hidden knowledge (gnosis) and foreign languages (glossolalia), erased memories or personalities, drastic changes in vocal intonation and facial structure, the sudden appearance of injuries (scratches, bite marks) or lesions, and superhuman strength. Baloney! Nathan.
I could give you a medical condition for each one of those symptoms! Every one!
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Post by withlove on Apr 9, 2015 23:41:02 GMT -5
Can someone exorcise this important thread of demon possession please? Put it into a thread about pigs if you like.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 9, 2015 23:50:00 GMT -5
Baloney! Nathan.
I could give you a medical condition for each one of those symptoms! Every one!
You don't know what I had, you THINK you know....
Don't you know I read/study the signs of demon possessed and I was there so I know what I had better than you, who were NOT there to witness what happened. I didn't have to be there & witness what happened to you and many others. The symptoms are quite typical of such experiences; -very well known & cataloged. I could give you a physical or mental condition for each one of those symptoms!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 9, 2015 23:50:56 GMT -5
Can someone exorcise this important thread of demon possession please? Put it into a thread about pigs if you like.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 10, 2015 0:05:46 GMT -5
No, but I know what the Dr. might say what caused it.... chemical imbalance, so take this, that and this medicine/pills and you will be fine. It that was true Jesus our Lord God would have sent the demon possessed to the doctors in their days for help instead him casting/driving out the demons Himself. Had he been aware of the problem of epilepsy and known of the treatment what do you think he would have done? Let's try a different approach. What is the goal of Satan? If he were to gather all humans to his 'club' the what would be the end game? The end game of Satan is to become like God! He wants everyone to worship him instead of God. He tried it with Jesus when he said to him. Matt 4:9 All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. But Jesus said. Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, so he has a strong hold here. (I mean in people's hearts) but Jesus was too strong for him and denied him. Something we're not able to do so well, unless we have his help and the strength of God in our hearts to do so.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 10, 2015 1:21:11 GMT -5
First of all, Nathan, it is hard to understand that there are people like you who still in this century believe such inconsiderate and cruel nonsense.
Second, these drugs for mental illness that you keep referring to, simply didn't exist at that time.
I know, -I had my psychiatric nurse's training at large city hospital, St Louis. Our treatment options were nothing compared to what is available today. "Anneliese Michel was a German woman who underwent Catholic exorcism rites in 1975 and died the next year, due to lack of medical care. Later investigation determined that she was malnourished and dehydrated; her parents and the priests responsible were charged with negligent homicide. The case attracted media and public attention because of the Catholic Church's unusual decision to employ the 400-year-old ritual of exorcism, something that had been rarely seen since the 18th Century. The film The Exorcism of Emily Rose is loosely based on her story. When Michel was sixteen, she experienced an epileptic seizure and was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy. She was determined to be depressed and was treated at a psychiatric hospital. By the time she was twenty, she had become intolerant of various religious objects, and began to hear voices. Her condition worsened, despite medication, and she became suicidal. Michel and her family became convinced she was possessed by demons, and appealed to a Catholic priest for an exorcism. While rejected at first, after much hesitation, two priests got permission from the local bishop in 1975, and performed exorcism rites on her for 10 months, in secret (as ordered by the bishop). After her death, Michel's parents and the two priests were found guilty of negligent homicide, and were sentenced to six months in jail (reduced to three years of probation), and a fine. The case has been cited as an example of a misidentified mental illness, negligence, abuse and religious hysteria." I am the living proof of demons possessed.... It's NOT my own imagination.... It's REAL. Luckily, my case wasn't severe as Anneliese Michel... But I could have developed into a full blown case of demon possessed if I had NOT met the workers in 1978. My demon possessed experience just in the infant stage and it was stopped in time for it to get out of hand. Nathan, You seem to have changed the goal posts now. Either mental illness is caused by demons or its not ! If it is why do so many workers have mental illness ? How did the workers get rid of the demons ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 10, 2015 1:23:41 GMT -5
Baloney! Nathan.
I could give you a medical condition for each one of those symptoms! Every one!
You don't know what I had, you THINK you know. I read/study the signs of demon possessed and I was there so I know what I had better than you, who were NOT there to witness what happened.Here is a TRUE story of Anneliese Michel. She had a normal childhood until she was 16, 1968 when she suffered severe seizure and was diagnose a grand epilepsy. When long term medication failed to help. She began to tribute her condition to demonic possession. She became phobic of holy objects, and began seeing what she called "demon faces" multiple times a day. Soon Anneliese decided conventional medicine was NO use, and petition the church for an exorcism..... You can read the rest of the story yourself. www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpV66RB3u7sThis is the same as you don't know how mental illness affects people if you don't live with them 24/7 or suffer yourself !
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 10, 2015 2:00:35 GMT -5
I didn't have to be there & witness what happened to you and many others. The symptoms are quite typical of such experiences; -very well known & cataloged. I could give you a physical or mental condition for each one of those symptoms!
dmg, I don't trust humans diagnose on demons possession especially the one don't believe in God or Satan.
Non-believers don't believe in God so how can they give anyone a true report on spiritual realm which they don't believe is real. You suppose that is how we became non-believers? We found out people really weren't possessed by demons as had been thought for centuries; -but rather that there was simply something wrong in their brain!
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 10, 2015 2:00:48 GMT -5
Nathan, You seem to have changed the goal posts now. Either mental illness is caused by demons or its not ! If it is why do so many workers have mental illness ? How did the workers get rid of the demons? The native workers in Vietnam cast demons out through prayers and fasting as Jesus has taught.The actual video tapes of Anneliese Michel crawling on 4 four legs downstairs and the bed shaken violently with her on it. She didn't shake the bed by herself but some entity/force did it with people standing all around. SEE it for yourself. Anneliese Crawling on 4 legs going downstairs www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5u4WYu-_eoThe bed is shaken violently with Anneliese sitting on it www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1RX7JixLXMWow that would be a first ! Has anyone else heard of native workers in Vietnam casting demons out ?? Is this something that only happens in Vietnam ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 10, 2015 3:19:27 GMT -5
So Nathan just to clarify do you still believe that mental illness is caused by people being possessed ?
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2015 11:11:21 GMT -5
I am the living proof of demons possessed.... It's NOT my own imagination.... It's REAL. Luckily, my case wasn't severe as Anneliese Michel... But I could have developed into a full blown case of demon possessed if I had NOT met the workers in 1978. My demon possessed experience just in the infant stage and it was stopped in time for it to get out of hand. Are there weaker and stronger versions of satan and demons? By infant stage do you mean that there were demons in training? You know, NathanB, that there are thousands of cases of exorcism where the people being 'treated' died. I am wondering why people do not call on god to remove the demon(s). And, if they do, why they simply do not leave as told in the bible.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 10, 2015 14:32:26 GMT -5
Can someone exorcise this important thread of demon possession please? Put it into a thread about pigs if you like. Can threads run off cliffs or does that only happen when the piggery is the same place as the cemetery?
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Post by Greg on Apr 10, 2015 15:09:10 GMT -5
Is there such a thing as "parafaith"?
Is this thread a "parathread" in relation to the F&W?
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2015 16:56:50 GMT -5
The evil spirits don't like to leave the person's body. The will fight tooth and nail to stay. Why not? What does the demon get out of it? Are they like hermit crabs that need a shell? If that is the case they sound like pretty weak entities.
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2015 16:58:02 GMT -5
Can someone exorcise this important thread of demon possession please? Put it into a thread about pigs if you like. Can threads run off cliffs or does that only happen when the piggery is the same place as the cemetery? 2,000 pigs?!? I'll bet the farmers were upset to lose the assets. I wonder if they were compensated.
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Post by bitterbetty on Apr 10, 2015 19:43:12 GMT -5
Are you saying mental illness is caused by people being possessed by demons ? With all due respect to the various experts and those who have dedicated themselves to helping the mentally ill, I don't think even the xperts have been able to pinpoint the exact cause/causes for mental illness. Sure they can say what might contribute to it, including family history. Despite all the modern technology at our fingertips today with everyone owning a smartphone and what not, we still haven't gotten better and more DEFINITIVE tests to properly diagnose mental illness. If we don't know the EXACT cause(es), what are the chances of getting to the bottom of it and the right treatment. In all my years of being a nurse, this is one of the things that has frustrated me the most...But mental illness seems to touch everyone's life in one way or another.
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Post by Mary on Apr 10, 2015 20:00:24 GMT -5
The Sea was actually a lake Nathan. We call it the Sea of Galilee but many know it as Lake Tiberius - in fact most in those parts of the world. If you stand on the spot - Umm Qais, Gadara, in Jordan, where the swine were supposed to have run from into the sea/lake it is a long way from any water. I wonder how swine could run that far. It is not like it was just a matter of running down a hill into the water. The water is like several hours walk from where they claim the site is today. I believe the story of the swine in the Bible but I do not believe the site where the swine were cast out is where they say it is today. It just brought back memories of the 2 times I have stood there.
P.S. I just looked it up and there is doubt that todays site could have been the site due to the same reasons as I just said.
Nathan your beliefs are a mixture of a whole lot of religions and churches.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:09:52 GMT -5
I am the living proof of demons possessed.... It's NOT my own imagination.... It's REAL. Luckily, my case wasn't severe as Anneliese Michel... But I could have developed into a full blown case of demon possessed if I had NOT met the workers in 1978. My demon possessed experience just in the infant stage and it was stopped in time for it to get out of hand. Nathan, You seem to have changed the goal posts now. Either mental illness is caused by demons or its not ! If it is why do so many workers have mental illness ? How did the workers get rid of the demons ? Ive known a number of evangelists pastors and teachers who had strong deliverance ministries. Most if not all advocated people remain on medication. I have yet to hear of any worker being knowledgable on the topic. They dont believe in deliverance healing setting people free from bondage. Hears the thing. If they believed in the power of god. There wouldnt be the issues with CSA. Or should I say the problem would be greatly reduced.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:18:35 GMT -5
Is there such a thing as "parafaith"? Is this thread a "parathread" in relation to the F&W? Greg what is parafaith? Dont you find it telling that christians (people claiming to be believers in christ )only believe parts of scripture that fit their mindest/comfort zone/understanding?
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Post by bitterbetty on Apr 10, 2015 20:21:32 GMT -5
There is language in this thread with regards to how Satan and his 'realm' does or does not work and how those powers of darkness are manifested. I don't refute that people can be demon possessed, etc. But, in my opinion, Satan works MOST effectively not by OBVIOUS signs and symptoms. The subtle serpent who you don't know is there until it's right under your feet. This is why DENYING there is a 'problem' is music to the enemy's proverbial 'ears'. DENIAL. But, remember, Jesus advised His own disciple's to be 'wise as serpents', but gentle as doves. Does this mean to stoop to the enemy's level, no, taken in context, not. It may mean simply put: Don't be fooled...
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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:23:29 GMT -5
Can threads run off cliffs or does that only happen when the piggery is the same place as the cemetery? 2,000 pigs?!? I'll bet the farmers were upset to lose the assets. I wonder if they were compensated. Haha...oh stop it you are making me laugh. It is a serious topic!!
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Apr 10, 2015 20:42:22 GMT -5
2,000 pigs?!? I'll bet the farmers were upset to lose the assets. I wonder if they were compensated. Haha...oh stop it you are making me laugh. It is a serious topic!! Hey! Someone here has a sense of humor, praise God. Seriously, "I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane." - Waylon Jennings
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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:43:45 GMT -5
Nathan how much do you know about Mental Illness ? Have you suffered from it yourself ? Also Nathan why do so many workers & friends have mental illness ? I have also asked myself this. There were many who had 'breakdowns' when I was young. I concluded the unnatural lifestyle. As christians we say we believe the word of god. There is a lot 2x2s dont believe. Christ came to set us free. From what? Bondage. Christians can be in bondage even though they have the indwelling holy spirit. Bondage from all kinds of things. Their past. The sins of the fathers back to the 4th generation. This thread has majored on mental illness. I wonder why? Is that because you know there are other types of bondage and have no arguement against those?. Ive seen all kinds of manifestations over the yrs when people were going through deliverance. Sometimes there is no manifestation. The thing is the end result is freedom. Most people want to be free. People dont usually know when they have an evil spirit in residence. It is the power of the holy spirit that does the effective work on someone gaining freedom. Always the results are rejoicing in the lord. I hear there is a new movie out called Laviathon.. I must see that.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Apr 10, 2015 20:48:06 GMT -5
There is language in this thread with regards to how Satan and his 'realm' does or does not work and how those powers of darkness are manifested. I don't refute that people can be demon possessed, etc. But, in my opinion, Satan works MOST effectively not by OBVIOUS signs and symptoms. The subtle serpent who you don't know is there until it's right under your feet. This is why DENYING there is a 'problem' is music to the enemy's proverbial 'ears'. DENIAL. But, remember, Jesus advised His own disciple's to be 'wise as serpents', but gentle as doves. Does this mean to stoop to the enemy's level, no, taken in context, not. It may mean simply put: Don't be fooled... Hmmmm. Denial. Right on. I don't really recall any worker spending much time preaching or teaching or talking about angels OR demons. It seemed like a topic that was shied away from. But, just because you ignore the elephant in the room does not mean the elephant is not there. If the friends and workers AVOID the subject, then what kind of help can they be in the event that someone really needs help casting out a demon? Nate, I'm not picking on you and not here to refute whether or not there are demons. Anyone who believes in the God of the Bible must also believe there is a Satan and accompanying powers. There is reason EPHESIANS 6 WAS WRITTEN!!
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