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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 12:58:14 GMT -5
wingsfortruth.info/bill-denk-2013/Bill Denk letter July 2013 From: William Denk Date: July 28, 2013 8:41:17 PM EDT Subject: My latest news Dear friends and workers: I have some rather unpleasant news to share. My co – worker in 2006 molested a boy. He was immediately dismissed from the work, as per the parents request. Morally and ethically we thought we did the right thing, it wasn’t until much later that we found out that we, as ministers were mandated reporters. In march of 2009, I was called into the state police post for an interview concerning the situation. I went in and spoke freely without any fear, again thinking I was doing the right thing. Nothing was said concerning my obligations as a reporter and I wasn’t arrested on the spot... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ How could he have THOUGHT he was "doing the right thing"? If so, can the friends trust his preaching advice? This letter has puzzled me. Just like the letter from Ray Hoffman stressing the GOOD THINGS IH had done for the Kingdom in Texas!
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Post by rational on Feb 22, 2015 10:23:15 GMT -5
I wonder if this goes back to the misused quote about not taking one's brother to the law and settling matters inside the group. There's another possibility that I have been thinking about and that is that it seems that folks inside these high control groups don't seem to see themselves as citizens with legal rights. Instead they seem to think of themselves only as followers of a leader(s) blessed by some divine entity that is above human laws. When something happens such as child sexual abuse - they don't understand it as a crime being committed rather they are devastated by the breach of a moral code or moral ethics. I think part of the problem is that people sometimes do not understand the seriousness of the situation want to give others a second chance. Sure uncle Bob may have touched Cindy in an inappropriate was but he seems very sorry, has asked god for forgiveness, and from all appearances is a reformed individual. Getting the authorities involved would just make his life much harder. We will watch him carefully and make sure he is not in a position where Cindy will be unsafe. The RCC got the priests to repent, confess, promise to not to abuse, and then sent them off to start a new life. Other organizations did the same. They were, for the most part, doing what they believed was the 'right' thing to do. I knew a family where the father had been molesting the children for a while but, in the end, the wife/mother did not make a report to the authorities but dealt with it by divorcing the father and taking custody of the children. It is difficult to turn in people you know. I am not in any way making excuses for the workers but only pointing out that they act just as humans do in other settings. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 19:02:39 GMT -5
it is difficult to turn in people you know
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Yes, it isn't easy and sometimes unpopular. Bill may have feared Jerome would have kicked him out of the work. For way too long, this problem festered in the Kingdom. There is a deep seeded fear of the workers in places of responsibility because people don't want eternal torment and I can see how fearful souls might keep quiet about their own or another abuse. It is a messy situation that our society has finally recognized as a horrible crime. But Bill was in the home when Darren and the boy were "wrestling" and he should have done his job reporting abuse. Bill had responsibility over Briggs, I believe.
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Post by rational on May 2, 2015 22:54:25 GMT -5
But Bill was in the home when Darren and the boy were "wrestling" and he should have done his job reporting abuse. Bill had responsibility over Briggs, I believe. I believe the parents were also aware of the events. Should they be jailed and fined? |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2015 0:22:23 GMT -5
I wonder if this goes back to the misused quote about not taking one's brother to the law and settling matters inside the group. There's another possibility that I have been thinking about and that is that it seems that folks inside these high control groups don't seem to see themselves as citizens with legal rights. Instead they seem to think of themselves only as followers of a leader(s) blessed by some divine entity that is above human laws. When something happens such as child sexual abuse - they don't understand it as a crime being committed rather they are devastated by the breach of a moral code or moral ethics. I think part of the problem is that people sometimes do not understand the seriousness of the situation want to give others a second chance. Sure uncle Bob may have touched Cindy in an inappropriate was but he seems very sorry, has asked god for forgiveness, and from all appearances is a reformed individual. Getting the authorities involved would just make his life much harder. We will watch him carefully and make sure he is not in a position where Cindy will be unsafe. The RCC got the priests to repent, confess, promise to not to abuse, and then sent them off to start a new life. Other organizations did the same. They were, for the most part, doing what they believed was the 'right' thing to do. I knew a family where the father had been molesting the children for a while but, in the end, the wife/mother did not make a report to the authorities but dealt with it by divorcing the father and taking custody of the children. It is difficult to turn in people you know. I am not in any way making excuses for the workers but only pointing out that they act just as humans do in other settings. She's lying. I never touched her - not even once. And furthermore, I'm not her uncle.  |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2015 0:23:17 GMT -5
But Bill was in the home when Darren and the boy were "wrestling" and he should have done his job reporting abuse. Bill had responsibility over Briggs, I believe. I believe the parents were also aware of the events. Should they be jailed and fined? They could be -- someone would have to file a complaint, but it happens all the time. |
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Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2015 0:57:25 GMT -5
I wonder if this goes back to the misused quote about not taking one's brother to the law and settling matters inside the group. There's another possibility that I have been thinking about and that is that it seems that folks inside these high control groups don't seem to see themselves as citizens with legal rights. Instead they seem to think of themselves only as followers of a leader(s) blessed by some divine entity that is above human laws. When something happens such as child sexual abuse - they don't understand it as a crime being committed rather they are devastated by the breach of a moral code or moral ethics. I'm not trying to provide an excuse for folks not following the law and fulfilling their legal obligations - like you I'm just trying to make sense of what to me are shocking actions or rather inaction taken by individuals who seem to be the type that would see these criminal acts as wrong. I honestly don't remember ever thinking about individual human rights while professing it was always about what was best for the kingdom - stands to reason that this way of thinking is still pervasive in the 2s. I'd be interested in hearing what others think. Excellent point, Cindy. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 17:38:05 GMT -5
Since reporting a worker in responsibility in Truth equals going to a lost eternity, I could see a parents reluctance. Much is made of keeping your place, fitting in and accepting correction. And much is made of focusing on the good and not on the bad things in the Kingdom. The fear of lost salvation and family shunning could factor in. BD may have feared his place in the work also.
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Post by rational on May 4, 2015 18:06:38 GMT -5
Since reporting a worker in responsibility in Truth equals going to a lost eternity, I could see a parents reluctance. Since believing that a child abuser controls who does and who does not gain eternal life borders on a delusional thought process so introducing any change will be problematic. |
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Post by What Hat on Jul 11, 2015 11:57:04 GMT -5
Since reporting a worker in responsibility in Truth equals going to a lost eternity, I could see a parents reluctance. Much is made of keeping your place, fitting in and accepting correction. And much is made of focusing on the good and not on the bad things in the Kingdom. The fear of lost salvation and family shunning could factor in. BD may have feared his place in the work also. Could also come from the long history of humans being taught that religious law outranks criminal law. Fear is a powerful motivator when it comes to well intentioned people doing nothing. Actually, it does outrank criminal law. At least for me, I would follow my conscience and sense of justice over the dictates of the law. I also believe civil disobedience is warranted on many social issues. However, that isn't what likely happened here, IMO. Non-reporting and non disclosure were common features of child abuse across society. Check this out.These are sexual assault cases, not CSA, but they do indicate that mandatory reporting laws are poorly understood. Occam's razor - the simpler hypothesis is usually, but not always, the correct one. www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/colleges-federal-investigation-sexual-assault_n_5990286.htmlAlso look at the Jerry Sandusky case of child sexual abuse at Penn State. The chart below shows the number of officials that had knowledge and made a limited or no response. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_child_sex_abuse_scandal#/media/File:Gerald_Sandusky_Sexual_Abuse_Findings_of_Grand_Jury.pngNeither workers or college officials can claim ignorance as a defence, but they may well have been ignorant of their duties. Further, this suggests that the reasons for non disclosure are not purely religious. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2015 11:30:41 GMT -5
I wonder if this goes back to the misused quote about not taking one's brother to the law and settling matters inside the group. There's another possibility that I have been thinking about and that is that it seems that folks inside these high control groups don't seem to see themselves as citizens with legal rights. Instead they seem to think of themselves only as followers of a leader(s) blessed by some divine entity that is above human laws. When something happens such as child sexual abuse - they don't understand it as a crime being committed rather they are devastated by the breach of a moral code or moral ethics. I'm not trying to provide an excuse for folks not following the law and fulfilling their legal obligations - like you I'm just trying to make sense of what to me are shocking actions or rather inaction taken by individuals who seem to be the type that would see these criminal acts as wrong. I honestly don't remember ever thinking about individual human rights while professing it was always about what was best for the kingdom - stands to reason that this way of thinking is still pervasive in the 2s. I'd be interested in hearing what others think.
It brought to my mind that as a member of this religious group we were taught not to talk about any problems or conflicts within the group to "outsiders."
It would be a betrayal.
When I was having such a difficult time with the elder of the church, I was in nurses training and living in the dorm & I couldn't even discuss the problem with my room mate,- the person that I spent more time with than anyone else!
I had no outlet to discuss anything except with my parents & I only saw them once a week!
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