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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 9, 2015 14:25:14 GMT -5
The big shift on the west coast was publicized last week, with Dale Shultz going to be overseer in Oregon, Harold Bennett being demoted (has been Overseer of OR) , and Rob Newman as new overseer in California.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2015 14:53:54 GMT -5
Has the publicity of the 1996 newspaper article about Rebecca Ginestar made a difference? Hmm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 18:37:52 GMT -5
I remember when George Lee & Greg Harger switched fields mid season and united the KY-TN staff. Several here said that this was just a coincidence. Until they heard some news from Michigan concerning the potential jail time for Mr. Frandle and Denk. Something about the TIMING of the Oregon events seem odd given that this is neither the first of the year or just after convention.
That said, I personally think the workers need to move around more especially the overseers. Irving Ross has been in Ohio for about 18 years. Charles Steffen spent way too long in the NE US and remained there until death. Ditto to Charlie Hughes in Virginia, Garrett Hughes in Colorado, Jerome Frandle in KY-TN, Willie Wilson in Indiana,Eldon Tenniswood in CA, Sam Charlton in MI, Jack Mulkey in LA, Gilbert Ricter in ND and Tharold Sylvester in WA.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 18:39:05 GMT -5
How about the elder in question at Saginaw OR in 1996? Is he still alive? Could he have living victims? You never know. The timing seems suspicious. However, it could be a coincidence.
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Post by Tim Jones 'kyblue' on Feb 12, 2015 21:25:23 GMT -5
The big shift on the west coast was publicized last week, with Dale Shultz going to be overseer in Oregon, Harold Bennett being demoted (has been Overseer of OR) , and Rob Newman as new overseer in California. Cherie wanted me to post some of where Robert Newman has been while a worker. I noted that there are about 5-6 fields in CA that he has been in and not moved around the state to a great extent. That said, though, he has spent the vast majority of his years in California, not being sent to other states, which may stilt his thinking. Anyway, from the lists I have been given, here are the fields and companions I am aware of: 1984-85 CA, Eureka, Donald Fisher, RN 1985-86 CA, Fresno, Stephen Pierson, RN 1986-87 CA, Bakersfield, Ralph McDonald, RN 1987-88 CA, Eureka & Redding, Joseph Schoen, RN 1988-89 CA, Bakersfield, Doyle Copeland, RN 1989-90 Arizona, North Phoenix, Dale Bors, RN 1990-91 CA, Modesto, Edward Alexander, RN, Larry Smit 1991-92 CA, Eureka & Redding, RN, Kent Williston 1992-93 CA, Eureka & Redding, RN, John Parish 1993-94 CA, NW Los Angeles, Eldon Tenniswood, Harold Hilton, RN 1994-95 same 1995-96 CA, Modesto, RN, Kevin Gifford 1996-97 CA, Modesto, RN, Tom Fredgren 1999-2000 CA, Escondido, RN, Gary Myers 2002-03 Arizona, Mesa & Apache Junction, RN, Jeff Gillie 2004-05 Washington, Coeur d’Alene & Spokane Valley, Mark Huddle, RN, Ross Wetherell 2006-07 CA, European convention tour 2007-08 CA, San Francisco & East Bay, RN, Christopher Cobb 2008-09 CA, Escondido & Ramona, RN, Willaim Brown 2009-10 CA, Escondido & Ramona, RN, David Drew 2010-11 CA, Indio, El Centro & Yuma, Larry Greenaway, RN? 2011-12 CA, Indio, El Centro & Yuma, RN, Scott Boswell 2012-13 CA, Indio, El Centro & Yuma, RN, Scott Wainwright 2013-14 AZ, Mesa, RN, Brian Frandsen
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Feb 12, 2015 21:52:12 GMT -5
Rob has been staying close to Shelter Valley for some years as he was the supervisor of Shelter Valley construction activity.
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Post by hotrod on Feb 18, 2015 12:24:57 GMT -5
Good gravy. Wouldn't have known this, comes as a surprise. Why were the friends not told? I figured Harold was entrenched here. Thought perhaps Tom Hinkle would succeed. Timing...well heck I dunno. Just got done with specials around these parts. Dale Bors made a recent pass through the area.
So okay..don't really know Dale Schultz..what can the friends expect of him compared to Harold?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 14:45:18 GMT -5
Notice how Rob has never preached east of the Rocky Mts.. Ditto to Harold Bennett and Mark Huddle. How about sending Jerome Frandle, Barry Barkley and George Lee to the west coast and send Harold Bennett, Mark Huddle and Dale Shultz to the southern US-It ain't gonna happen. They are crossing the Rockies more during convention tours however.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Feb 18, 2015 16:55:42 GMT -5
This thread is not too unlike this board which is not too unlike the friends and workers themselves: lots of concern/info. of workers and what they are doing and where they are going, etc, etc. For myself, I would not be so concerned with this type of thing as I would be concerned about where the Holy Spirit is dwelling...Some of the friends seem to be fixated on what all the workers are up to....
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Post by jondough on Feb 21, 2015 1:51:12 GMT -5
Rob is a good man. Not controlling, just encouraging. This was a good choice.
The other good part is, if I know Rob, I'lll just bet he did not want the job. Thats perfect. The last person you want in this position is someone that Wants to be top dog.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 21, 2015 2:34:30 GMT -5
Rob is a friend of mine, though I don't think I have seen him since I discontinued attending meetings - I mean, I have lived way out here in the Pacific, so that's not saying there has been a lot of opportunity to see him either. Rob, like all of us, is human, with his weaknesses and points of view, which he will defend, but he also tries hard to see things from other points of view. I know this from personal experience, when he has been a bit more open to groups of people I have been critical of - and this is nothing to do with the fellowship or religion. Give the guy a chance! It's probably safe to say he will be involved in decisions with which we disagree, but we too easily speculate and read motives into anything and everything. I think you are right, jondough, that he did not want the job. Again, I know him fairly well, and I have been trying to imagine his reaction when asked to take on the responsibility. - If you're a praying person, pray for him; he will feel intense pressures to go against his better judgment at times, and become aware of things he will wish he did not know about. Additionally, choosing Rob for the job implies that some others - older than he - were passed over. Some of these would not be capable of that type of organizational responsibility, but I can think of some who are capable and who wanted the position - and, as jondough stated, that is the last person you want in the position! I'm not directing this at you, jondough - I appreciated your post! . Rob is a good man. Not controlling, just encouraging. This was a good choice. The other good part is, if I know Rob, I'll just bet he did not want the job. Thats perfect. The last person you want in this position is someone that Wants to be top dog.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 21, 2015 14:00:39 GMT -5
Does the Head Worker of California have authority over the western states of the US? Good to hear the positives about Rob. The California overseer also directs the workers in Nevada, Arizona, Baja California (Mexico), Hawai'i, and Micronesia (which includes Guam, where we live). I spent my entire 18 years in the work within this jurisdiction, but only 7 of those years were actually in California fields - I spent 2 years in Nevada and 9 out here in the Pacific. Nathan's reply may more directly answer your question about the California overseer's authority over other western US states.
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Post by Gene on Feb 21, 2015 16:59:26 GMT -5
Rob is a friend of mine, though I don't think I have seen him since I discontinued attending meetings - I mean, I have lived way out here in the Pacific, so that's not saying there has been a lot of opportunity to see him either. Rob, like all of us, is human, with his weaknesses and points of view, which he will defend, but he also tries hard to see things from other points of view. I know this from personal experience, when he has been a bit more open to groups of people I have been critical of - and this is nothing to do with the fellowship or religion. Give the guy a chance! It's probably safe to say he will be involved in decisions with which we disagree, but we too easily speculate and read motives into anything and everything. I think you are right, jondough, that he did not want the job. Again, I know him fairly well, and I have been trying to imagine his reaction when asked to take on the responsibility. - If you're a praying person, pray for him; he will feel intense pressures to go against his better judgment at times, and become aware of things he will wish he did not know about. Additionally, choosing Rob for the job implies that some others - older than he - were passed over. Some of these would not be capable of that type of organizational responsibility, but I can think of some who are capable and who wanted the position - and, as jondough stated, that is the last person you want in the position! I'm not directing this at you, jondough - I appreciated your post! . Rob is a good man. Not controlling, just encouraging. This was a good choice. The other good part is, if I know Rob, I'll just bet he did not want the job. Thats perfect. The last person you want in this position is someone that Wants to be top dog. Hmmmm.... I'm not so sure. I guess if you believe that God is in control and can better use a humble man than a proud man, you have a point. But if God is more of a stand-offish kind of Supreme Being, I think you might want a bit of an ego-maniacal leader over an area like California and its territories. Why? Because the role is not dissimilar from a CEO of a large corporation. CEOs need to be driven by a lust for power, success, prestige, and control--and an overweening sense of personal pride that will ensure he or she acts in such a way as to build--and preserve and protect--his legacy along with the organization he leads. But wait! Before you determine those are all bad characteristics in a worker, think about this: Do you really want a head worker who is content to sit back, let an ephemeral being take the lead, and watch all hell (so to speak) break loose? To bring it down to Earth, I've had bosses who never wanted to be a boss, and they sucked. I've had bosses who wanted to be bosses, and they sucked too! But I've also had bosses who wanted to be leaders, studied how to be a great leader, and sought and assumed the mantle with respect and enthusiasm, and they were the best bosses I ever had. I hope Rob is enthusiastic about the possibilities he has to lead and affect change...and not cowering in trepidation over the responsibility. Disclaimer: I have absolutely no knowledge of who this person is, and my comments, therefore, are made from a position of pristine neutrality as to his thoughts, character and ability.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Feb 21, 2015 17:21:09 GMT -5
You make valid points, Gene!
And yes, I can think of older workers I have known who did not want the job, and who would have, as you said, been "content to sit back, let an ephemeral being take the lead, and watch all hell (so to speak) break loose." And I know of others who have made it obvious they want the "job," to the point of arrogance. Many other California workers found these men difficult to work with. Though I do not mean to portray Rob as "perfect" - whatever that means - but I do see him as one not grasping for place and responsibility, yet willing to step up and take it when necessary. I may be proven wrong, but hope not, more for Rob's sake than mine . . .
I might add as well that in spite of numerous "negative" qualities Eldon Tenniswood had, and his seeming desire for power, I do appreciate his ability to delegate responsibility - he would ask us to make certain decisions, and he would accept our decisions, plans, etc. I have witnessed other overseers who seemed to "micromanage" everything. I am relating this in response to your statements about CEOs, with which I agree. Rob, like me, was of course "trained" by Eldon in some ways, and I have seen him operate in this manner, while not seeming to have a craving for control.
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Feb 21, 2015 22:18:23 GMT -5
There doesn't seem to be the caliber (if that’s the correct word) of head workers that were around 10-20 years ago.
Eldon Tenniswood, Howard Mooney, Willis Propp, Clarence Anderson, Willie Pollock, Paul Sharp etc certainly had a ‘presence’ about them.
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Post by fixit on Feb 21, 2015 22:37:25 GMT -5
There doesn't seem to be the caliber (if that’s the correct word) of head workers that were around 10-20 years ago. Eldon Tenniswood, Howard Mooney, Willis Propp, Clarence Anderson, Willie Pollock, Paul Sharp etc certainly had a ‘presence’ about them. I think that generation lost an opportunity to relax stifling legalism and engage honestly around questions about the beginnings.
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 21, 2015 22:54:54 GMT -5
I agree, that addressing those two issues , would have been a MAJOR accomplishment for the leaders. Instead, we see leadership in these issues coming from people NOT in official leadership positions in the church, and ironically,sometime the strongest or most dependable and honest approach has come from people who have left or been kicked out of the church. Thanks for your leadership, fixit. Appreciated. I am very appreciative of the relationships and friendships of people I do havein the fellowship, and many of them have addressed those issueshonestly in their own life, but would not be so open to speak honestly to the head workers about it, as they would jeapordize their postion in the church. I think the leaders are waaaaaay behind many of those in the membership in these issues, but we mmight all be surprised how fast it could change in the future. Of course, too late for those of us who got "booted" along that path of discovery, but that's okay. Our children still have good connections also, with young friends, and there is lots of change happening. Not all good, but..... Alvin
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Post by fixit on Feb 21, 2015 23:03:02 GMT -5
Yes, a lot has changed in recent years but it's been too little too late.
The best opportunity for course correction was in the 1980s and 1990s.
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Post by slowtosee on Feb 21, 2015 23:05:21 GMT -5
Not disagreeing, but why was the 80 's the best opportunity? Of course, earlier the better, like 1897 and forward.....~~~ Alvin
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Post by fixit on Feb 22, 2015 4:05:21 GMT -5
Not disagreeing, but why was the 80 's the best opportunity? Of course, earlier the better, like 1897 and forward.....~~~ Alvin The numbers peaked in the 1980s. I think it was in the 1980s that publicity over the beginnings gained traction, and a lot of people lost confidence in the workers when they failed to give straight honest answers.
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 22, 2015 10:12:40 GMT -5
Doug Parkers book was published in 1982...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 20:05:00 GMT -5
There doesn't seem to be the caliber (if that’s the correct word) of head workers that were around 10-20 years ago.
Eldon Tenniswood, Howard Mooney, Willis Propp, Clarence Anderson, Willie Pollock, Paul Sharp etc certainly had a ‘presence’ about them. *****I have thought the same thing at times. Maybe I am older and less easily intimidated. As I get older, I am closer to their age. I think today's generation is armed with information and today's workers are keenly aware of that. If you push these young people around, they will leave and numbers will keep going south.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 2, 2015 21:09:27 GMT -5
If the leading workers would have just acknowledged the facts at the beginning of the outing of the origins of what was known as the True Way; -not only would they have saved a lot of pain for the people but saved their own credibility.
Eventually when the workers had to recognize the history of the "TRUTH" as factual & could not be denied, they had to start using rationalization tactics to try to justify & minimize the significance that history.
Of course they also tried to frame it into a "spiritual" context rather than a factual one.
That worked for some people as we see here on the TMB board.
The fact remains that most all of the people professing by that time had been led to believe that the Way, the Truth, actually went all the way back in an unbroken line to the times of Christ. Some people say that we were never really told that it did go back, -but why then did so many people believe that indeed it did?
It was always inferred to be true and repeated even by workers who themselves did not know the truth!
A lie doesn't have to be stated out right in an overt manner to be a lie.
Something covertly inferred, implied, is still a lie!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 10:00:42 GMT -5
The workers are going to have to approach some of the issues that keep resurfacing on TMB over and over again. Issues about the history, operations and handling of church problems over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 11:11:52 GMT -5
there are less regulations and workers don't try and interfere in people's lives" @@@@ This is good as far as it goes. Yet there is a more excellent way and it is JESUS!!!!
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