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Post by déjà vu on Nov 23, 2014 15:01:53 GMT -5
Is driving out demons a gift that was given exclusively to the Apostles?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 15:05:04 GMT -5
some say yes some say no i'm not entirely a cessasionist...
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Post by bubbles on Nov 24, 2014 2:32:50 GMT -5
Is driving out demons a gift that was given exclusively to the Apostles? No. Any christian can pray and see results. The power is in the name and blood of christ. Not the person praying.
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Post by déjà vu on Nov 24, 2014 11:06:11 GMT -5
Some claim Christians can not be possessed by demons be cause the are in dwelled by the Holy Spirit .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 11:54:50 GMT -5
Is driving out demons a gift that was given exclusively to the Apostles? It is also given to Aposticles Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 24, 2014 19:54:30 GMT -5
Is driving out demons a gift that was given exclusively to the Apostles? It is also given to Aposticles Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Ram The majority of people who quote those verses would rather leave people in bondage than help them to be set free. Why? Is it fear? When there are many scriptures to the contrary. If we love one another why would we deny them freedom. The holy spirit can indwell a person with a demon. Unless we are completely delivered at salvation. There are many habits people have and continue after salvation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 3:00:25 GMT -5
It is also given to Aposticles Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Ram The majority of people who quote those verses would rather leave people in bondage than help them to be set free. Why? Is it fear? When there are many scriptures to the contrary. If we love one another why would we deny them freedom. The holy spirit can indwell a person with a demon. Unless we are completely delivered at salvation. There are many habits people have and continue after salvation. Bubbles, the last line of your reply confuses me. For me the key phrase in the verses that I quoted are "I NEVER knew you!" For me these verses speak generally of Christendom, or at least a very large part of it because it is dealing with "many" who thought they knew God, but in reality they didn't. They had been worshiping a false God. They didn't know the real God. Remember Jesus asked the question if he would find faith on the Earth when he returned. He also said clearly that "few" would find the the true way, truth and life" to the real God. Hours before Jesus was taken and crucified he prayed to his Father and His God on our behalf that we would find eternal life through coming to KNOW the only true God (his Father and his God) AND Jesus Christ whom his Father had sent. There are huge deceptions in Christendom. A lot, lot more than most people would thing, or more importantly would want to think! Next Sunday the church I attend is having a "Billy Graham" day, celebrating this guy's 96th? birthday. I will not be attending. IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 25, 2014 6:02:11 GMT -5
Ram The key scripture you quoted is are we doing the will of the father?
Luke 10:9
'Heal the sick and tell the people the kingdom of heaven has come nigh to you.'
Matt 12:28 'But if I cast out devils the kingdom of god has come unto you.' There are a number of verses on this topic. The important thing is doing the will of the father. If we are not doing the will of the father then it seems anything else we do ie healing, deliverance, prophecy are not what is on his heart so much as doing his will.
We know from other scriptures his heart is for people to be whole and free. So we know he is not against those things but for them. Freedom is the result of release from bondage.
Heres the thing finding out what is the will of the father in our individual lives.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 14:12:42 GMT -5
Ram The majority of people who quote those verses would rather leave people in bondage than help them to be set free. Why? Is it fear? When there are many scriptures to the contrary. If we love one another why would we deny them freedom. The holy spirit can indwell a person with a demon. Unless we are completely delivered at salvation. There are many habits people have and continue after salvation. Bubbles, the last line of your reply confuses me. For me the key phrase in the verses that I quoted are "I NEVER knew you!" For me these verses speak generally of Christendom, or at least a very large part of it because it is dealing with "many" who thought they knew God, but in reality they didn't. They had been worshiping a false God. They didn't know the real God. Remember Jesus asked the question if he would find faith on the Earth when he returned. He also said clearly that "few" would find the the true way, truth and life" to the real God. Hours before Jesus was taken and crucified he prayed to his Father and His God on our behalf that we would find eternal life through coming to KNOW the only true God (his Father and his God) AND Jesus Christ whom his Father had sent. There are huge deceptions in Christendom. A lot, lot more than most people would thing, or more importantly would want to think! Next Sunday the church I attend is having a "Billy Graham" day, celebrating this guy's 96th? birthday. I will not be attending. IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many. Ram, lately you have been pretty 'sure' where certain people are going based on their beliefs. I don't remember you being quite so judgmental in the past. What has changed for you that you can state unequivocally that anyone is going to hell?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:34:26 GMT -5
Bubbles, the last line of your reply confuses me. For me the key phrase in the verses that I quoted are "I NEVER knew you!" For me these verses speak generally of Christendom, or at least a very large part of it because it is dealing with "many" who thought they knew God, but in reality they didn't. They had been worshiping a false God. They didn't know the real God. Remember Jesus asked the question if he would find faith on the Earth when he returned. He also said clearly that "few" would find the the true way, truth and life" to the real God. Hours before Jesus was taken and crucified he prayed to his Father and His God on our behalf that we would find eternal life through coming to KNOW the only true God (his Father and his God) AND Jesus Christ whom his Father had sent. There are huge deceptions in Christendom. A lot, lot more than most people would thing, or more importantly would want to think! Next Sunday the church I attend is having a "Billy Graham" day, celebrating this guy's 96th? birthday. I will not be attending. IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many. Ram, lately you have been pretty 'sure' where certain people are going based on their beliefs. I don't remember you being quite so judgmental in the past. What has changed for you that you can state unequivocally that anyone is going to hell? Snow, lately I have been defending my beliefs from "scripture," esp. against things like the Trinity and Jesus is God etc. I have been quoting scripture and giving my interpretation of this. People are very welcome to challenge my interpretations, in fact I welcome it, through counter opinions. It rarely happens. In the case of Billy Graham, it is very easy to compare his beliefs with scripture and show him to be a false teacher and thus an agent of the adversary. I am not sure that I agree with your accusation (per se) about my being sure where certain people are going based on their beliefs etc. I think you are looking at things through the wrong lens. Let the Word of God decide where people are going based on their beliefs or unbelief. I am more taken up with measuring their claims/beliefs against scripture. If Billy Graham is falsely preaching the Word of God then scripture itself condemns him, not me! I don't go around saying this one or that one is going to Heaven or Hell. The Word of God (Bible) is my Law Book if you like. If people make claims based on this book then I will seek to investigate their claims and either support them or reject their claims based on what the book actually says.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 25, 2014 14:38:38 GMT -5
Heaven might be somewhat lonely place, won't it, ram? No trinitarians,no billy graham's, no 2x2's, no........................................no slow to sees, etc etc. Poor old Thomas, not being there either, what with him calling Jesus, " my lord and my god" and all. A friend of mine might be right, when he says "if...... (fill in the blank religion) go to heaven, I don't want to be there.... lol. Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:44:32 GMT -5
Heaven might be somewhat lonely place, won't it, ram? No trinitarians,no billy graham's, no 2x2's, no........................................no slow to sees, etc etc. Alvin Yes I know, no thieves, murderers, rapists, robbers, drug addicts, unbelievers, etc. No the truth of the matter is that everyone will be individually judged against the Word of God. We have it before us now so that we can see the required standards, etc. Trinity = not Biblical. False teaching. Billy Graham = False teacher 2x2s = Correct God and correct Jesus, but some wrong practices and beliefs. Slow to See = I haven't a clue?
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 25, 2014 14:48:09 GMT -5
For the record I had edited my post after your reply, ram. No real change but wanted to clarify. Yes, the pharisees were very very good at using scripture to determine who was going to heaven and who was not. That thief on the cross sure wasn't going or the woman who had 5 husband's and the guy they kicked out of the temple and those sinful lepers and......all the rest of that riff raff. nope., heaven is only for righteous people like you and me and sometimes I wonder about you. Only me going, lots of room in that chariot swinging low for me. Hope it has plush seats because I deserve some comfort after all the suffering I have endured to be "right". Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:53:06 GMT -5
For the record I had edited my post after your reply, ram. No real change but wanted to clarify. Yes, the pharisees were very very good at using scripture to determine who was going to heaven and who was not. Alvin Who have I said is going to Heaven and who have I said was going to Hell? By the way, I disagree with your interpretation of Thomas's words. This has been explained several times over, but you will get the real context of his words if you study several chapters before he actually said these words. It puts it all into context. John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[/font] 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
[/i][/font][/b][/b] When Thomas said "My Lord and My God" in Chapter 20 it was based on Jesus's words above. He did NOT see Jesus AS God but saw God the Father in him. Jesus was the express image of his God and Father. Scripture itself tells us that Thomas's words are recorded NOT for us to believe that Jesus IS God, but rather that he IS THE SON OF GOD" John.20 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
There you have it plain as day. When Thomas said "My Lord and My God" it was written so that we would believe that Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD (NOT GOD HIMSELF). And that through this belief we might have life through his name! Go by what scripture actually tells us not what MAN tells us. When Thomas used these often misunderstood words he was identifying Jesus as the Son of God. Verse 29 and 31 clearly confirm this!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 15:28:08 GMT -5
For the record I had edited my post after your reply, ram. No real change but wanted to clarify. Yes, the pharisees were very very good at using scripture to determine who was going to heaven and who was not. That thief on the cross sure wasn't going or the woman who had 5 husband's and the guy they kicked out of the temple and those sinful lepers and......all the rest of that riff raff. nope., heaven is only for righteous people like you and me and sometimes I wonder about you. Only me going, lots of room in that chariot swinging low for me. Hope it has plush seats because I deserve some comfort after all the suffering I have endured to be "right". Alvin Well, like everyone else, I am 100% dependent upon the mercy of God (like the thief on the cross etc). Like you, I often wonder about myself, and I am glad about that because it causes me to search scripture more thoroughly. There are many warnings in scripture about false beliefs etc, wrong doctrines and so on. I am only challenging doctrines that I believe to be wrong, as in the case with Thomas's regularly misunderstood words already covered.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 15:49:34 GMT -5
Ram, lately you have been pretty 'sure' where certain people are going based on their beliefs. I don't remember you being quite so judgmental in the past. What has changed for you that you can state unequivocally that anyone is going to hell? Snow, lately I have been defending my beliefs from "scripture," esp. against things like the Trinity and Jesus is God etc. I have been quoting scripture and giving my interpretation of this. People are very welcome to challenge my interpretations, in fact I welcome it, through counter opinions. It rarely happens. In the case of Billy Graham, it is very easy to compare his beliefs with scripture and show him to be a false teacher and thus an agent of the adversary. I am not sure that I agree with your accusation (per se) about my being sure where certain people are going based on their beliefs etc. I think you are looking at things through the wrong lens. Let the Word of God decide where people are going based on their beliefs or unbelief. I am more taken up with measuring their claims/beliefs against scripture. If Billy Graham is falsely preaching the Word of God then scripture itself condemns him, not me! I don't go around saying this one or that one is going to Heaven or Hell. The Word of God (Bible) is my Law Book if you like. If people make claims based on this book then I will seek to investigate their claims and either support them or reject their claims based on what the book actually says. I guess I understand this quote of yours to be pretty sure you know where Billy Graham is going. " IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many." You do say in your opinion, but it seems pretty 'sure' too me. So I was wondering what has changed for you that you would state in such surety that BG is hell bound? I know Wally and Nathan also say this about non believers, but I don't remember you doing this before. Am I wrong in getting that message from that quote? Also, it wasn't an accusation. I was asking a question.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 15:54:58 GMT -5
Heaven might be somewhat lonely place, won't it, ram? No trinitarians,no billy graham's, no 2x2's, no........................................no slow to sees, etc etc. Poor old Thomas, not being there either, what with him calling Jesus, " my lord and my god" and all. A friend of mine might be right, when he says "if...... (fill in the blank religion) go to heaven, I don't want to be there.... lol. Alvin That is something that I find interesting, the amount of people who apparently are going to make heaven. Not very many. There will be no population explosion in heaven, that's for sure. All the religions that aren't Christian, hell. All the Christians that believe in the Trinity, hell. All the 2x2's that believe in the Trinity, hell. That doesn't leave a lot of people. I would also assume that Mormons won't make it either because they believe they can become Gods after death and rule their own planets. It would seem to me that for an all powerful being, God doesn't seem to be able to effectively communicate. The devil is winning this hands down! That doesn't seem quite right, does it.
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Post by Mary on Nov 25, 2014 16:13:04 GMT -5
Seems like it might be just Ram and Jesus... not to forget valiant Thor in heaven. We are all doomed. I might as well go and live it up and party and all the naughty things that one who is doomed does. Enjoy while I can as I have no hope. Believing that Jesus died on the Cross for my sins is not enough. For some it is good works and believing that the workers are the only true messengers of God that will give me a ticket to heaven. For others it is not believing that the Father called Jesus God (Heb 1:14) that Thomas said My Lord and My God, or that Jesus was the word made flesh, and that the word was God (1John 1) or that Jesus was the I am.
Is there no place in heaven with you Ram? Maybe the Trinitarians and the non Trinitarians will be in a separate corner. But, there are 7 heavens aren't there? Maybe one for the Trinitarians and one for the non? Seems like Jesus' sacrifice was not enough but that we have to have the correct belief around that too.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 25, 2014 16:50:56 GMT -5
Who are the"fearful and unbelieving? I could be fearfully not believing that Christ's atonement is sufficient for those who do not understand scripture the same way I do, or who don't even know about it. Often the prodigal son story has us focusing on the prodigal son, such a sinner etc. But really it is about the father and what God is like. When he was yet a great way off, like way off in more ways than one likely, the father saw his son and ran to greet him and threw a party with music and dancing. Do you think the son had it all "correct"? I doubt it. The " correct " brother was standing back, thinking how wrong this all was. Here I did so good and my brother did s o bad and who gets the party. He didn't understand the heart of his father. Often, we don't understand the heart of our father who said, I didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. I visualize a father who welcomes broken prodigals, people who "blew it", losers and winners, into his heavenly party. Is there big danger in thinking for yourself that all people go to heaven , and just let God do the sorting if you made a mistake? Christ died for all. Don't be so afraid and unbelieving,Alvin.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 17:57:27 GMT -5
Seems like it might be just Ram and Jesus... not to forget valiant Thor in heaven. We are all doomed. I might as well go and live it up and party and all the naughty things that one who is doomed does. Enjoy while I can as I have no hope. Believing that Jesus died on the Cross for my sins is not enough. For some it is good works and believing that the workers are the only true messengers of God that will give me a ticket to heaven. For others it is not believing that the Father called Jesus God (Heb 1:14) that Thomas said My Lord and My God, or that Jesus was the word made flesh, and that the word was God (1John 1) or that Jesus was the I am. Is there no place in heaven with you Ram? Maybe the Trinitarians and the non Trinitarians will be in a separate corner. But, there are 7 heavens aren't there? Maybe one for the Trinitarians and one for the non? Seems like Jesus' sacrifice was not enough but that we have to have the correct belief around that too. I can't help but notice how you view people who are 'doomed'. Do you really think that we go and live it up and party and do all those naughty things? That was a huge revelation as how non believers are in your view. Which is fine I guess, but it's really not the way we all are. Just so you know.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 17:59:13 GMT -5
I guess I understand this quote of yours to be pretty sure you know where Billy Graham is going. " IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many." You do say in your opinion, but it seems pretty 'sure' too me. So I was wondering what has changed for you that you would state in such surety that BG is hell bound? I know Wally and Nathan also say this about non believers, but I don't remember you doing this before. Am I wrong in getting that message from that quote? Also, it wasn't an accusation. I was asking a question. Let me clarify this snow.... Wally and I pointed out what God said about Unbelievers, fearful people end up. Revelation 20:6-8 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and ladymongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.So, you don't believe this? Why would you post it then? You must believe that I am, as Mary puts it, 'doomed' because you never miss a chance to tell me this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 4:44:05 GMT -5
So, Ram.... you believe 90% of Christians or any of the 2x2s believe in the Trinity=Triune God, today doom to hell? Ram, you know millions of Christians have believed and taught the Trinity the last 2000 yrs. Ram, are you 100% sure they will go to HELL? Did God tell you this or this is just your OWN opinion? Nathan, I am fed up with people putting words in my mouth. I have never said the things that you are claiming me to have said. I am clearly stating that the Trinity is false doctrine, representing a false god and that Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God. I have used scripture, God's Word, to show it. Not my words but the recorded words of God. So far no one has been able to stand against the words of God that I have quoted. God tells me what his word says. I don't change it. Abide in the words of Jesus. Beware of the teachings on men. By the way, the Trinity has not been taught for 2000 years. It is a 4th Century concept, although its false roots began to take place soon after the the Apostles died. They warned that such doctrines would come about. Now instead of pointing the finger at me, how about giving "your" analysis of the passages that I quoted from John's gospel, instead of trying to distract from it. You know that the only way to avoid shipwreck is to challenge me personally rather than the clear words of God.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 4:55:45 GMT -5
Snow stated:
I guess I understand this quote of yours to be pretty sure you know where Billy Graham is going. " IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many." You do say in your opinion, but it seems pretty 'sure' too me. So I was wondering what has changed for you that you would state in such surety that BG is hell bound? I know Wally and Nathan also say this about non believers, but I don't remember you doing this before. Am I wrong in getting that message from that quote? Also, it wasn't an accusation. I was asking a question.
Snow, it is not for me to make the final judgment of a person's eternal destiny. That lies with God who has entrusted that to his Son Jesus. However, based upon the fact that it is fairly simple to show from what scripture clearly states, that Billy Graham is a false teacher and that scripture also clearly states what the eternal destiny of false teachers is, we are led to only one possible conclusion......unless Mr Graham truly repents. It is what the Word of God says, not what I say. My job is to believe in the Word of God. If I believed otherwise, I would not believe the Word of God.
It is not I who is judging Billy Graham et al, they condemn themselves when measured against the scriptures.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 5:01:12 GMT -5
Seems like it might be just Ram and Jesus... not to forget valiant Thor in heaven. We are all doomed. I might as well go and live it up and party and all the naughty things that one who is doomed does. Enjoy while I can as I have no hope. Believing that Jesus died on the Cross for my sins is not enough. For some it is good works and believing that the workers are the only true messengers of God that will give me a ticket to heaven. For others it is not believing that the Father called Jesus God (Heb 1:14) that Thomas said My Lord and My God, or that Jesus was the word made flesh, and that the word was God (1John 1) or that Jesus was the I am. Is there no place in heaven with you Ram? Maybe the Trinitarians and the non Trinitarians will be in a separate corner. But, there are 7 heavens aren't there? Maybe one for the Trinitarians and one for the non? Seems like Jesus' sacrifice was not enough but that we have to have the correct belief around that too. No Mary, IT IS NOT ENOUGH! That sacrifice deals with your sins IF you believe in the way, truth and life of Jesus and abide in his words. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 26, 2014 12:09:58 GMT -5
It is also given to Aposticles Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Ram The majority of people who quote those verses would rather leave people in bondage than help them to be set free. Why? Is it fear? When there are many scriptures to the contrary. If we love one another why would we deny them freedom. The holy spirit can indwell a person with a demon. Unless we are completely delivered at salvation. There are many habits people have and continue after salvation. Oh my, Oh my!
All one need to do is read this thread to see how religion keeps people on constant tenterhooks, -constantly worried about whether they are truly "saved" or if they might also be "possessed" by a demon!
Why can't people realize how those ideas are used to control them and keep them filled with angst?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 12:18:24 GMT -5
1) Nathan, I am fed up with people putting words in my mouth. I have never said the things that you are claiming me to have said. I am clearly stating that the Trinity is false doctrine, representing a false god and that Jesus is NOT God but the Son of God. I have used scripture, God's Word, to show it. Not my words but the recorded words of God. So far no one has been able to stand against the words of God that I have quoted. God tells me what his word says. I don't change it. Abide in the words of Jesus. Beware of the teachings on men. ~~ And I have showed you, times and times AGAIN! hundreds of verses that the Trinity concepts are in Genesis through Revelation. Here are the names of folks on TMB have stands against your quoted, Me, Stanne, SharonW, RossB, Dennis J. and others. You have continued ignored what we have shared with you. Jesus is BOTH God the Son and the Son of God.2) By the way, the Trinity has not been taught for 2000 years. It is a 4th Century concept, although its false roots began to take place soon after the Apostles died. They warned that such doctrines would come about. ~~ The Trinity=Triune God has been taught by the apostolic fathers in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century before the RCC counsel in the 4 century.3) Now instead of pointing the finger at me, how about giving "your" analysis of the passages that I quoted from John's gospel, instead of trying to distract from it. You know that the only way to avoid shipwreck is to challenge me personally rather than the clear words of God. ~~ We have been through this hundreds of times with You, SharonW, and those who think like you on this message board for 15 years. SharonW fought us tooth and nail on the Trinity and thanks God, He had shown her understanding and vision. She has told you and others on this message she was in the same as you're right now.I have dedicated a whole section proved Jesus is Both Lord/God and the son of God/man.Does the word God refer ONLY to the Father AND not the Son/Yeshua?2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/board/12/word-god-refer-father-yeshuaNathan, you have been reading too much of Richard Dawkin's works. You now have your own version of "The God Delusion!" I go with what scripture clearly states. It is not a two sided coin. What scripture states is the "fullness" of who Christ is. Period! The Trinity Doctrine blinds!
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Post by snow on Nov 26, 2014 12:55:19 GMT -5
Snow stated: I guess I understand this quote of yours to be pretty sure you know where Billy Graham is going. " IMO Billy is heading for the "I never knew you." I see him as one of the other guy's "angels of light." He deceives many." You do say in your opinion, but it seems pretty 'sure' too me. So I was wondering what has changed for you that you would state in such surety that BG is hell bound? I know Wally and Nathan also say this about non believers, but I don't remember you doing this before. Am I wrong in getting that message from that quote? Also, it wasn't an accusation. I was asking a question.Snow, it is not for me to make the final judgment of a person's eternal destiny. That lies with God who has entrusted that to his Son Jesus. However, based upon the fact that it is fairly simple to show from what scripture clearly states, that Billy Graham is a false teacher and that scripture also clearly states what the eternal destiny of false teachers is, we are led to only one possible conclusion......unless Mr Graham truly repents. It is what the Word of God says, not what I say. My job is to believe in the Word of God. If I believed otherwise, I would not believe the Word of God. It is not I who is judging Billy Graham et al, they condemn themselves when measured against the scriptures. Ya, that's pretty much what Nathan and Wally say too. We don't judge, but.... Actually, there is another option. Don't believe the scriptures or have anything to do with a god like that. I know you don't like those options, but they are options. It's all good Ram. Just haven't heard it from you before.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 26, 2014 13:23:48 GMT -5
So have any of you done exorcism in a house?
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