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Post by faune on Nov 24, 2014 19:40:28 GMT -5
The apostles were NOT married Jesus, most of the 12 apostles died in foreign lands, no wife or children were mentioned, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Luke, John Mark, Apollo, etc.... Nate - are you saying that Paul was not telling the truth in 1 Cor 9:5??? Ross ~ I wonder how the workers get around these verses found in I Corinthians 9:4-6?
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Post by faune on Nov 24, 2014 19:43:28 GMT -5
St. Anne ~ I believe Timothy was a disciple of Paul, who lived within the first century and estimated to have died around mid-60's AD under Nero's rule according to Wiki excerpt below? That makes me question the reference above to him and his wife dying as martyrs under Diocletian rule (284-305 A.D.), which was about two centuries later?
I believe I have erroneously posted about St Timothy the Reader. So. I have deleted. StAnne ~ No problem. However, I found it really terrible how that couple were tortured under Diocletian. Undoubtedly, being a Christian during this time required a lot of courage and conviction to endure? However, many of the disciples and their converts lost their lives rather than recant their faith under such circumstances, which speaks very well of the deep faith they possessed in Jesus and His sacrifice on their behalf and their hope in a future resurrection.
StAnne shared earlier...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 22:29:16 GMT -5
there were others beside apostles who performed miracles even just plain workers and i ask you how would you know that he was not a worker in the sense of workers that belong to the "Fellowship"? one does not have to do miracles to be an apostle So what is the difference between a "plain worker" & an Apostle Virgo ? Where is the record to prove he was a worker in the same sense as "the workers" today ? Also if that was the case why can't workers today do miracles ? nothing they were all in the service of Jesus Christ the Spirit is the record
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 22:29:53 GMT -5
philip may have been the only one to see Jesus Didn't Paul see Jesus ? not with his eyes
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 22:31:40 GMT -5
were do you get the idea that they all were married? They weren't all married but most of the Apostles were married as Paul indicates in 1 Corinthians 9:5 "Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?" that was not indication of how many
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 24, 2014 23:04:45 GMT -5
So what is the difference between a "plain worker" & an Apostle Virgo ? Where is the record to prove he was a worker in the same sense as "the workers" today ? Also if that was the case why can't workers today do miracles ? nothing they were all in the service of Jesus Christ the Spirit is the record So are the workers in the "Fellowship" now plain workers or Apostles, Virgo ? If they are Apostle why can't they preform miracles ? Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 24, 2014 23:09:43 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 15:3-10King James Version (KJV) 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 2:35:04 GMT -5
nothing they were all in the service of Jesus Christ the Spirit is the record So are the workers in the "Fellowship" now plain workers or Apostles, Virgo ? If they are Apostle why can't they preform miracles ? Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ? both for the same reason you can't i honestly don't know how many you asked me that last question, the answer is still the same
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 2:37:40 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 15:3-10King James Version (KJV) 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. and what has that to do with my answer?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 25, 2014 3:16:23 GMT -5
So are the workers in the "Fellowship" now plain workers or Apostles, Virgo ? If they are Apostle why can't they preform miracles ? Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ? both for the same reason you can't i honestly don't know how many you asked me that last question, the answer is still the same Virgo, how do you tell who is a "plain worker" & who is an apostle then ? The reason the workers don't preform miracles is because they are NOT Apostles ! Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 25, 2014 3:17:51 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 15:3-10King James Version (KJV) 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. and what has that to do with my answer? You said Paul didn't see God with his eyes .... check the 8th verse
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 25, 2014 9:39:46 GMT -5
During the first century, it appears to have been the general rule that young people who were "of age" could arrange their own marriages. A girl was considered of age at twelve years and one day. The Jewish rabbis set the minimum age for marriage at twelve years for the girl, and thirteen years for the boy. A boy should certainly be wed by the time he was eighteen to twenty. www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2005/may/page20.htmMary, mother of Jesus is thought to have been 14 yrs old when she gave birth to Him.
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Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 14:40:25 GMT -5
During the first century, it appears to have been the general rule that young people who were "of age" could arrange their own marriages. A girl was considered of age at twelve years and one day. The Jewish rabbis set the minimum age for marriage at twelve years for the girl, and thirteen years for the boy. A boy should certainly be wed by the time he was eighteen to twenty. www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2005/may/page20.htmMary, mother of Jesus is thought to have been 14 yrs old when she gave birth to Him. I found this interesting about the process of marriage. Marriage was a 2 part process. It appears that the first part of the process can be done by the woman accepting money from the man, a contract, or having sex with him. After that they do not live together for about 1 year. After the year is done they perform the final marriage. So I imagine if the marriage was agreed upon by the 3rd option, sexual relations, then the woman could easily bear a child before the year is up and the final vows are exchanged. The Process of Marriage: Kiddushin and Nisuin The process of marriage occurs in two distinct stages: kiddushin (commonly translated as betrothal) and nisuin (full-fledged marriage). Kiddushin occurs when the woman accepts the money, contract or sexual relations offered by the prospective husband. The word "kiddushin" comes from the root Qof-Dalet-Shin, meaning "sanctified." It reflects the sanctity of the marital relation. However, the root word also connotes something that is set aside for a specific (sacred) purpose, and the ritual of kiddushin sets aside the woman to be the wife of a particular man and no other. Kiddushin is far more binding than an engagement as we understand the term in modern English; in fact, Rambam speaks of a period of engagement before the kiddushin. Once kiddushin is complete, the woman is legally the wife of the man. The relationship created by kiddushin can only be dissolved by death or divorce. However, the spouses do not live together at the time of the kiddushin, and the mutual obligations created by the marital relationship do not take effect until the nisuin is complete. The nisuin (from a word meaning "elevation") completes the process of marriage. The husband brings the wife into his home and they begin their married life together. In the past, the kiddushin and nisuin would routinely occur as much as a year apart. During that time, the husband would prepare a home for the new family. There was always a risk that during this long period of separation, the woman would discover that she wanted to marry another man, or the man would disappear, leaving the woman in the awkward state of being married but without a husband. Today, the two ceremonies are normally performed together. Because marriage under Jewish law is essentially a private contractual agreement between a man and a woman, it does not require the presence of a rabbi or any other religious official. It is common, however, for rabbis to officiate, partly in imitation of the Christian practice and partly because the presence of a religious or civil official is required under United States civil law. As you can see, it is very easy to make a marriage, so the rabbis instituted severe punishments (usually flogging and compelled divorce) where marriage was undertaken without proper planning and solemnity.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 0:33:43 GMT -5
and what has that to do with my answer? You said Paul didn't see God with his eyes .... check the 8th verse yes he saw Jesus but not with his eyes, he saw Jesus as we see Jesus today
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 0:35:46 GMT -5
both for the same reason you can't i honestly don't know how many you asked me that last question, the answer is still the same Virgo, how do you tell who is a "plain worker" & who is an apostle then ? The reason the workers don't preform miracles is because they are NOT Apostles ! Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ? i told you they were the same i told you for the same reason you can't and of course not answering you last question again and again and again
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2014 0:55:09 GMT -5
Virgo, how do you tell who is a "plain worker" & who is an apostle then ? The reason the workers don't preform miracles is because they are NOT Apostles ! Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost ? i told you they were the same i told you for the same reason you can't and of course not answering you last question again and again and again Virgo, you stated that the workers are apostles, then you said that there are "plain workers" as well as apostles. Now I asked you how do YOU determine who is a 'plain worker" and who is an apostle ?? You have not answered my last question " Just a thought Virgo, do you believe only the F&W are saved & that everyone else is lost " Therefore I take it that if you don't want to answer you believe only the F&W are saved & the right way ?
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