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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 12:46:24 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it.
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Post by fixit on Sept 29, 2014 13:01:47 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. I have always maintained there are a lot of good friends and workers in this fellowship. "Bad apples" are not necessarily bad people but rather bad attitudes and behaviours. Yes, as Review005 rightly pointed out "start with me". We need to go further that that though. To follow the advice in this scripture members of the fellowship would need to: 1. Speak out about unfruitful works of darkness, or 2. Leave the fellowship. Is there a third way?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 13:09:23 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. I have always maintained there are a lot of good friends and workers in this fellowship. "Bad apples" are not necessarily bad people but rather bad attitudes and behaviours. Yes, as Review005 rightly pointed out "start with me". We need to go further that that though. To follow the advice in this scripture members of the fellowship would need to: 1. Speak out about unfruitful works of darkness, or 2. Leave the fellowship. Is there a third way? Yes, be forced out as a bad example and a rebelious person.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 18:59:35 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church...
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msmary
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Post by msmary on Sept 29, 2014 20:13:26 GMT -5
The same could have been said of the law, but it was impossible except for Christ to keep. It was given to point out sin. Christ's perfect life, death and the power that came with his resurrection is what changes the believer and makes us a new creation. The F&W choose to stay on the other side of the cross and try by works and belief in the system to "be good enough, and keep faithful to the end". "Like our elder Brother". At a convention at least 5 years ago I heard for an older worker say "the greatest attribute you can have is submission". I believed it at the time and vowed to try harder. Now I look at what the bible says.
Grace and belief are pretty much left out of most meetings. Eph. 2:8 : For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
If we work for a gift, it is no longer a gift.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 30, 2014 1:27:48 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. While it does look negative and bad there is a good aspect to all of this. The shaking that is happening is bringing all the wickedness, evil goings on to the surface. Darkness is exposed and coming to the light. I agree with most of your statement. I honestly think the majority of the friends are lovely sincere good people. I think they have hearts towards god. What will happen is they will become stronger through hurt and suffering. Openness is a quality that is in conflict with control manipulation lies and coverups. Lets hope openness honesty bringing everything to the table will clear the muck from the stall. A massive cleanup needs to take place . Not unlike a lot of churches. You can take comfort in the fact that god is for the individual.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 3:50:35 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect.
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Post by holdmyhand on Sept 30, 2014 4:39:17 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Can someone show verses that say "the way" is perfect? Felix is said to have a more perfect knowledge of that way, there is a Perfect law of liberty we are told our Father in heaven is perfect, his will is perfect But what does following the “ perfect way to the letter” mean to you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 4:48:41 GMT -5
What I can point out is that Jesus is the Way and Jesus is perfect, so putting it together, the way is perfect because Jesus is the Way.
Jesus = the Way = perfect.
So for me, following in Jesus' foot steps/prints would be like following in the perfect way.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 30, 2014 5:01:12 GMT -5
the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Can someone show verses that say "the way" is perfect? Felix is said to have a more perfect knowledge of that way, there is a Perfect law of liberty we are told our Father in heaven is perfect, his will is perfect But what does following the “ perfect way to the letter” mean to you? I wondered about that too ? Jesus is the Way not a group of people !
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Post by ellie on Sept 30, 2014 5:07:36 GMT -5
the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect. Are you being funny?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 6:25:37 GMT -5
Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect. Are you being funny? Do you mean funny "ha ha" or do you mean funny "Peculiar" with a touch of sarcasm? You must figure that one out on your own
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Post by ellie on Sept 30, 2014 6:26:57 GMT -5
funny haha
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 6:37:03 GMT -5
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Post by kencoolidge on Sept 30, 2014 6:42:23 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. I have always maintained there are a lot of good friends and workers in this fellowship. "Bad apples" are not necessarily bad people but rather bad attitudes and behaviours. Yes, as Review005 rightly pointed out "start with me". We need to go further that that though. To follow the advice in this scripture members of the fellowship would need to: 1. Speak out about unfruitful works of darkness, or 2. Leave the fellowship. Is there a third way? Fixit Confront the individual when and where,if there is no change bring it before the church. The truth has had a problem with facing truth. Leadership has squashed many a challenge and a resultant loss of good people. ken
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Post by bubbles on Sept 30, 2014 7:07:01 GMT -5
'Loosing good people' Your comment ken makes me wonder do they care? Fwiw it is a genuine question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 11:02:08 GMT -5
the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Can someone show verses that say "the way" is perfect? Felix is said to have a more perfect knowledge of that way, there is a Perfect law of liberty we are told our Father in heaven is perfect, his will is perfect But what does following the “ perfect way to the letter” mean to you? i like what partaker said...jesus is perfect, Jesus is the way therefore Jesus = the way = perfect there are no verses that say they way is perfect just observation...
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Post by bubbles on Sept 30, 2014 15:04:53 GMT -5
the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect. Partaker Do you think this is the cause of pressure thats causes so many breakdowns?
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Post by bubbles on Sept 30, 2014 15:20:01 GMT -5
AS child (about 8yrs) I had a lovely friend who spoke openly about her church. With such love exuberance and enthusiasm. Her father was a Reverand. I envyed her freedom and openness. When she enquired what churches I and 3 others attended. I squirmed inside decidedly uncomfortable. Afraid. Inadequate. I wanted to be like her. Free. I avoided the topic. Always did right up til my 30's. One day I went to her house. Her father was one of the nicest men I ever met. Warm funny welcoming. Booming laugh. Like my own dad. I could imagine people attending their church and loving the minister he seemed so kind. Elizabeth wanted me to go to her church. She told me how exciting Sunday school was and the enjoyable activities. I loved being with her and wanted to go to her church. My church was boring. When I told Mum she explained our church was the only way to heaven. I remember feeling conflict inside because I couldnt see anything wrong with Elizabeths thinking nor her father. I cried when they moved to the south island.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 15:47:56 GMT -5
Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect. Partaker Do you think this is the cause of pressure thats causes so many breakdowns? I cannot say for sure that it is the actual cause 100%, as there may very well be other contributing factors involved; however, I do honestly believe that it can adds to it significantly. There may very well be peer group and other pressures from significant others to conform to, or contend with. I think that resistance to Such pressure could become overwhelming enough to cause nervous breakdown in some weakened persons while in others it would be like water off a duck's back, figuratively speaking. That is my opinion anyway.l
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Post by emy on Sept 30, 2014 20:10:54 GMT -5
Perfect way:
2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him. 2 Samuel 22:33 God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.
Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. Psalm 18:32 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.
Psalm 101:2 I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 30, 2014 23:29:09 GMT -5
Can someone show verses that say "the way" is perfect? Felix is said to have a more perfect knowledge of that way, there is a Perfect law of liberty we are told our Father in heaven is perfect, his will is perfect But what does following the “ perfect way to the letter” mean to you? i like what partaker said...jesus is perfect, Jesus is the way therefore Jesus = the way = perfect there are no verses that say they way is perfect just observation... So Wally you believe Jesus is the Way, so how can we follow Jesus to a (T) ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 1:00:51 GMT -5
In Luke 8: the Parable of the sower who went out to sow seeds, in v 15 it speaks of the seed that fell on good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Good and honest hearts. Reading on this forum, one cannot escape the dissatisfaction expressed by those who complain about lies,( or an art of being economical with the truth), denials and cover-ups and double standards, which seemingly are practiced and are condoned by some friends and workers, so much so that one that is outside looking in, is left with much doubt as to whether there is a short- fall of honest hearts within the fellowship. We can hide the truth from man but we cannot hide it from God; for the sake of the Kingdom, the bad apples should be rooted out from the good ground on which the seeds fell. These things really do bother me and we should not be afraid of criticism,; if something is wrong fix it. don't be to hasty in case when rooting out the tears that the wheat is rooted up as well Jesus said they were to remain, we must let God do His work it is not wrong to report law breaking behaviour to the proper authorities Matt 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this . The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up ? 29 But he said , Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 1:03:20 GMT -5
I have always maintained there are a lot of good friends and workers in this fellowship. "Bad apples" are not necessarily bad people but rather bad attitudes and behaviours. Yes, as Review005 rightly pointed out "start with me". We need to go further that that though. To follow the advice in this scripture members of the fellowship would need to: 1. Speak out about unfruitful works of darkness, or 2. Leave the fellowship. Is there a third way? Yes, be forced out as a bad example and a rebelious person. was the lost son made an example of because of bad behaviour?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 1:07:58 GMT -5
the way is perfect if followed to the letter T(expression) people however are not and we must remember that its the same for every church... Yes Wally, but we like to think that we are above other worldly churches, so we must set an example and show it in our actions and behaviour, don't you think so? I acknowledge that we are by no means perfect. we might like to think we are above other churches which i don't nescessarly hold to, but we are not above Christ and i don't think it is our place to condemn others, praying for is the better option in fact the option prefered by Jesus
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 1:09:48 GMT -5
Can someone show verses that say "the way" is perfect? Felix is said to have a more perfect knowledge of that way, there is a Perfect law of liberty we are told our Father in heaven is perfect, his will is perfect But what does following the “ perfect way to the letter” mean to you? Jesus is the Way not a group of people ! and that is widely acknowledged amongst us
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Post by bubbles on Oct 1, 2014 1:14:30 GMT -5
Virgo Prayer is good. It can be powerful to change. The other side is being responsible citzens. If we love our neighbor as ourselves we would take action when injustice occurs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 1:30:07 GMT -5
I have always maintained there are a lot of good friends and workers in this fellowship. "Bad apples" are not necessarily bad people but rather bad attitudes and behaviours. Yes, as Review005 rightly pointed out "start with me". We need to go further that that though. To follow the advice in this scripture members of the fellowship would need to: 1. Speak out about unfruitful works of darkness, or 2. Leave the fellowship. Is there a third way? Fixit Confront the individual when and when there is no change bring it before the church. The truth has had a problem with facing truth. Leadership has squashed many a challenge and a resultant loss of good people. ken do you think it would be better to follow what scripture say or what our moral indignation says? 1 Timothy 5:20 KJV Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
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