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Post by bubbles on Aug 26, 2014 7:28:02 GMT -5
Our friends were very upset but wanted to know how to find the book. No shops by monday anywhere in NZ had a copy.
They contacted a library in Wellington that gave them the address of author in victoria. That is how we got our first copy. It was between 1987 to 1989.
20yrs later my Mum told me a story how one of the friends (relative of exhubbys) visited very upset. Telling of rumours circulating amongst the friends blaming my hubby and I of sending leaflets to all the friends in Auckland. She had strongly defended hubby and said she could never imagine him doing something like that. She knew I wouldnt. I remember laughing and saying 'thats great let them think that' rather us than who it really was. I felt thrilled inside Mum had stood by us even tho it had been so difficult for my parents to accept my leaving. It had taken all that time (20yrs) for me to tell her how and why I left. As I have said my parents would never have coped with csa issue or any sexual scandals attached to workers they rever these people. My professing family are ignorant of so much.
It disgusts me when leaders who are supposed to lead hide. In my mind everything needs to come to the light.
It is a good thing when darkness is exposed it can then be dealt with.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 26, 2014 8:49:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the SS info bubbles. Care to share why you left meetings?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 26, 2014 10:50:41 GMT -5
Our friends were very upset but wanted to know how to find the book. No shops by monday anywhere in NZ had a copy. They contacted a library in Wellington that gave them the address of author in victoria. That is how we got our first copy. It was between 1987 to 1989. 20yrs later my Mum told me a story how one of the friends (relative of exhubbys) visited very upset. Telling of rumours circulating amongst the friends blaming my hubby and I of sending leaflets to all the friends in Auckland. She had strongly defended hubby and said she could never imagine him doing something like that. She knew I wouldnt. I remember laughing and saying 'thats great let them think that' rather us than who it really was. I felt thrilled inside Mum had stood by us even tho it had been so difficult for my parents to accept my leaving. It had taken all that time (20yrs) for me to tell her how and why I left. As I have said my parents would never have coped with csa issue or any sexual scandals attached to workers they rever these people. My professing family are ignorant of so much. It disgusts me when leaders who are supposed to lead hide. In my mind everything needs to come to the light. It is a good thing when darkness is exposed it can then be dealt with. You mentioned your professing family members are ignorant of so much. This is the very thing that frustrates me....those in my family who still are professing are willfully ignorant! They simply refuse to take their heads out of the sand and when I told them so...they had NO idea what I meant! It really seems to be a fulfillment of what Jesus was speaking about...there are those who are hearing but their ears are stopped up, they are seeing but they are blind, they are told but they have no understanding, etc! These are the ones that I'm mostly concerned about in the end of life things.....I know there is "pride" in what they have done and what they think they've been "entrusted" with....however should they look and accept the real truth about the truth, then their pride would cause some great turmoil for them....so again, the verse John 3:16 has been brought to my mind and that is where I have to leave any of those who do have their heads in the sand and are blind and deaf to what the truth about the truthis...and worry about their eternal welfare and that I must just leave them at that verse that says: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life." So perhaps their ignorance is okay with God, as many others are ignorant about other things as well! Thank you for sharing!
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Post by bubbles on Aug 26, 2014 13:39:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the SS info bubbles. Care to share why you left meetings? [br My husband challenged doctrine. The results of that caused a lot of gossip and other friends talking to works. A few months later I delivered my 4th child. When she was 3wks old he announced he was leaving the truth. I didnt see it coming. Over night my world was tipped upside down. He stated he didnt care if it took 40 yrs like Moses in the widerness. What I didnt know was the few mths leading up to the birth he was being shunned by friends in the sunday morning meetings. They stopped saying amen when he spoke. They didnt shake his hand. They didnt speak to him. I hadnt noticed because my 3rd was under a yr old. Id been raised and sheltered by beautiful people. My life had not experienced emotional trauma until then. Everything I believed looked fragmented. How could he make that decision. I remeber crying daily. It shook me to the core of my being. I dreaded waking up and facing the reality. We had both been raised in the truth. My greatest fear was not going to heaven. Id always been timid and full of the fear of man. Found it difficult to speak in meetings. Christmas came and went. The over seer was in our area. I invited them to dinner. One family friend uncle R. Cared and came to see me. The night uncle Walter came. All he said was Son come back. Just come back. There was no questions. Just that statement. No discussion. My husband had worker in family. So he thought ok I will. He attended meeting for 3wks. During that time the same people hadnt changed they still shunned him. That was it for him. He had had enough. During the next 18mths. I can only describe life at home as the darkest hour of my soul. I wept wailed cried out to God. Searched scriptures. Id never been good at reading understanding and containing scripture. One I read was "love your God with all your soul mind and spirit." " trust in God not in man" My life was a mess. Hubby was withdrawn depressed angry frustrated. It had its toll on the marriage. We had good friends in meetings who stood with us. One of my sisters had left and she was happy. I was desperately unhappy. I talked to her a lot. She suggested I leave. My aunt who had left a few yrs before came to dinner. I told her how I felt. She gave me a scripture. "YOU will know them by their love for one another" I clung to those few scriptures. One day during an arguement when I asked hubby to help me get kids ready for meeting he accused me of 'siding with the friends.' Nothing could have been further than the truth! Id been watching these people and while all of them were lovely to me. They knew I wasbreally struggling but not once did those gossips/shunners ask or enquire about hubby. It was as tho he hadnt existed. Neither of our families had done a thing not even the worker to intervene or advocate. I cried out to God. "Surely my marriage is more important than attending a meeting?" But how was I going to do this? I dreaded the questions from anyone family or friends. I needed them to know without words id left. First I prayed desperately telling the lord "you say I can trust you. You have seen the wreck Ive become. I dont understand all this. The only way I can cope is to pull the blinds down on everything. Im trusting you to Draw me back to yourself at some time in the future." With that I took action. Overnight the TV aŕrived. Nail polish, I died my hair and cigarettes to calm my shattered nerves. Our families were fine with us leaving. They cont to love and care. Never discussing anything. 3yrs later I was having problems with a teen when my aunt suggested I get him in to a youth group. We went to a local church. They were very loving and careing people. Our families struggled for a long time with us attending other churches.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 26, 2014 13:52:38 GMT -5
Sharingtheriches It does create division leaving. It is a sad time. I never did understand workers announcing people never had it or had lost their salvation. They had no clue My motherinlaw after hubby left visited and put tremendous pressure and guilt on me declaring "you have to get him back to meetings. He has lost his salvation.' I shook with fear. I remember breaking my heartbcrying after they left. Feeling so helpless. IT was over 30yrs ago now and as ive said im in a place of peace. better go bk to sleep. x
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Post by bubbles on Aug 27, 2014 1:46:51 GMT -5
Sharingtheriches It does create division leaving. It is a sad time. I never did understand workers announcing people never had it or had lost their salvation. They had no clue My motherinlaw after hubby left visited and put tremendous pressure and guilt on me declaring "you have to get him back to meetings. He has lost his salvation.' I shook with fear. I remember breaking my heartbcrying after they left. Feeling so helpless. IT was over 30yrs ago now and as ive said im in a place of peace. better go bk to sleep. x Thanks for your story - it's good that you have told it and I have to say that parts of it have a familiar ring. We were told that by questioning workers we had committed blasphemy and that by leaving we would lose our salvation and go to hell etc. The ironic part about it is that when we asked the workers before we left meeting whether we were saved (in present tense) we were told that "we don't like our people to be too confident about their salvation....". The other part that we couldn't quite reconcile is that a significant number of people in the group seemed to be unhappy or depressed or unfulfilled etc - why wouldn't they be as happy as a pig in mud if they have the only path to salvation?? In our experience some workers showed their true colours when we left....they make comments which hurt....but ultimately it makes the leaving process easier. Of course, over the past 20 years workers have had to deal with a new phenomenon - thousands of people who have left who believe in Jesus and go to other churches where the Bible and the true gospel are upheld. We certainly got the impression that the workers would much rather people became atheists - as it would reinforce their view that you can only truly believe in God in their group. Glad you are now in a place of peace. Blasphemy? Thats strong. I see it as controlling through fear. I fear that workers are idolised to a degree. Thanks Ross
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2014 10:33:47 GMT -5
Bubbles, the workers are worshipped and idolized to more then a degree! This is how the workers keep control over the masses! One would think anyone in the F&Ws have knowledge that most workers have NO education NOR experience to be a financial counselor, a marriage counselor, a grief counselor, etc.....BUT seeing the number of times that friends and younger workers have sought out older workers for counseling of some sort and usually not spiritual counseling. The counseling the workers gave back in the beginning caused a lot of problems for the friends for most of them were poor farmers any way....workers are not educated to be counselors, they aren't even educated to be workers either......at least NOT like the 12 and 70 were in the bible....they had seminary training/education with the Master of all Masters of learning! Jesus Christ. The Apostles had 3 yrs. of in depth studies and training with Jesus.....so how can anyone still contend that those Apostles were uneducated men? I know that the people of that era did simply because they did not either know Jesus or they did not accept him for being the Messiah or the Master! Jesus showed the Apostles that they must not lord it over anyone, but serve all people.....that he, himself, came to the earth to serve mankind!
The position of head of church etc has gone to the workers' heads and I think about any of us being put in those wame shoes might find ourselves reacting the same way to worship and Idolizing! It's just the weakness of human flesh....Jesus said that the Greeks were ones who did it quite well.....
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Post by magpies on Aug 27, 2014 19:28:56 GMT -5
Someone said "Prove it"? I will tell a "TRUTH" story of around 1950. The Ackland family in Geelong (Aust)got the room ready chairs in place,communion emblems on a little table,so sat and waited. WAITED WAITED WAITED? No one turned up? Well that was the sick gutless way my wifes Great Uncle and Aunt found out they had been crossed out of the 2x2s Lambs book of life? WHY?WHY?. Well Dear old Great Uncle and Aunt were close friends of Con and Daisy Deocke of South Australia,that of course was a challenge, Con was to theologically strong in his forward thinking and questioning of John Bartz the States Elder and his close buddy Bill Carroll of Victoria. "TRUTH" stories reveal much distance to scriptural "TRUTH"
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Post by bubbles on Aug 27, 2014 20:00:40 GMT -5
STR
I hear you. I remember the joy of hearing gifted teachers expound and it was something I hadnt known in meetings. Im not trying to be degrogatory in my comment. These people had an ability to show you linking scriptures and take you on a journey of understanding. I call it washing your mind with the word. Fascinating topics eg:;Jesus, salvation, prayer, fasting, holy spirit etc
Magsmagpie
Thats sad. I know stories like that.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 27, 2014 20:01:34 GMT -5
Someone said "Prove it"? I will tell a "TRUTH" story of around 1950. The Ackland family in Geelong (Aust)got the room ready chairs in place,communion emblems on a little table,so sat and waited. WAITED WAITED WAITED? No one turned up? Well that was the sick gutless way my wifes Great Uncle and Aunt found out they had been crossed out of the 2x2s Lambs book of life? WHY?WHY?. Well Dear old Great Uncle and Aunt were close friends of Con and Daisy Deocke of South Australia,that of course was a challenge, Con was to theologically strong in his forward thinking and questioning of John Bartz the States Elder and his close buddy Bill Carroll of Victoria. "TRUTH" stories reveal much distance to scriptural "TRUTH" It seems that I had a post where I actually didn't say anything but my profile signature As "PROVE IT!" showed up under what would have been my post.
I certainly didn't mean that Bubbles had to PROVE her story!
I'm sorry about that. I've deleted the "post" that didn't even happen.
I certainly do believe her story! I've Seen a lot of that kind of thing in my life-time.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 27, 2014 20:20:32 GMT -5
Dmmichgood
You've lost me? No clue what you mean. Relax. Thats magsmagpie up there not me?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 27, 2014 20:40:45 GMT -5
Dmmichgood You've lost me? No clue what you mean. Relax. Thats magsmagpie up there not me? Yes, I know it was magsmagpie. but I know that PROVE IT! is my signature under my avatar.
When I saw that at the beginning of her post, I thought I never said that about your story!
So I went back to see what had happened. I found a vacant post with my avatar & my signature after a post of yours! I deleted it because I didn't not want you to think I had wanted you to prove your story!
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Post by fixit on Aug 27, 2014 20:57:29 GMT -5
Magsmagpie Thats sad. I know stories like that. It would be interesting to hear the stories some time.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 28, 2014 7:23:32 GMT -5
Dmmichgood You've lost me? No clue what you mean. Relax. Thats magsmagpie up there not me? Yes, I know it was magsmagpie. but I know that PROVE IT! is my signature under my avatar.
When I saw that at the beginning of her post, I thought I never said that about your story!
So I went back to see what had happened. I found a vacant post with my avatar & my signature after a post of yours! I deleted it because I didn't not want you to think I had wanted you to prove your story!
I vaguely remember seeing that thought you had lost your tongue. You are showing your soft side dimmchgòod. I do appreciate your kindness. I would prove it if I could. I havent seen the friends involved for many yrs now. Lost touch. Thank you.
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jj
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jj on Aug 28, 2014 8:03:00 GMT -5
Thankyou for sharing your story bubbles. You know, before I left I was reading a lot of sites. Including this one and TLC and others. The stories that people shared on those sites of leaving the F&W and later finding peace helped me more than I can say.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 28, 2014 13:38:32 GMT -5
Thankyou for sharing your story bubbles. You know, before I left I was reading a lot of sites. Including this one and TLC and others. The stories that people shared on those sites of leaving the F&W and later finding peace helped me more than I can say. Thank you. Its one reason I come back. Unless you have been through it how could you understand. It take huge courage to leave something you believed so whole heartedly especially when most of your family remained inside. I only tell stories when inspired jj.. Try inspiring me. Lol That was a joke.
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Post by Mary on Aug 28, 2014 22:07:44 GMT -5
I went to a book shop looking for books on meetings and the owner who was serving said that someone came in a bought them all. He said he asked the man why they wanted them and they said they want to know what people are saying about them. The guy said he was an elder in meetings, but maybe he was a worker. That did not tell him why they were buying them all and not just one copy. Maybe they wanted to pass them around. Yes it was a big thing people buying the books to get them off the shelves. This was also in NZ Bubbles.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 5:17:28 GMT -5
I went to a book shop looking for books on meetings and the owner who was serving said that someone came in a bought them all. He said he asked the man why they wanted them and they said they want to know what people are saying about them. The guy said he was an elder in meetings, but maybe he was a worker. That did not tell him why they were buying them all and not just one copy. Maybe they wanted to pass them around. Yes it was a big thing people buying the books to get them off the shelves. This was also in NZ Bubbles. How long ago mary? It was around 1987 to 1989 when my story happened.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 5:20:01 GMT -5
I dont recall what yr the secret sect was written.
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Post by Mary on Aug 29, 2014 12:40:42 GMT -5
I went to a book shop looking for books on meetings and the owner who was serving said that someone came in a bought them all. He said he asked the man why they wanted them and they said they want to know what people are saying about them. The guy said he was an elder in meetings, but maybe he was a worker. That did not tell him why they were buying them all and not just one copy. Maybe they wanted to pass them around. Yes it was a big thing people buying the books to get them off the shelves. This was also in NZ Bubbles. How long ago mary? It was around 1987 to 1989 when my story happened. It would have been somewhere between 1998 - 2000 when I lived in that city.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 15:07:20 GMT -5
Mary
Same behaviour roughly 10yr later.
Wow.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 29, 2014 17:53:55 GMT -5
I dont recall what yr the secret sect was written. SS was published in 1982
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 29, 2014 18:07:43 GMT -5
STR I hear you. I remember the joy of hearing gifted teachers expound and it was something I hadnt known in meetings. Im not trying to be degrogatory in my comment. These people had an ability to show you linking scriptures and take you on a journey of understanding. I call it washing your mind with the word. Fascinating topics eg:;Jesus, salvation, prayer, fasting, holy spirit etc Magsmagpie Thats sad. I know stories like that. The Calvary Chapel churches really have a good way of teaching in their bible college and that helps the pastors become used to the scriptures and how to use them...otherwords they use them often...and we know that with the using of the scriptures comes maturity and using the meat of the word...this is what the bible speaks about in as you say "an ability" of taking you on a journey of understanding! Otherwise, it is just staying with the milk of the word which is the beginning story of Jesus Christ and how salvation comes....It seems that if we don't use the scriptures, then we cannot withstand the meat of the word due to a lack of maturity and use! According to the bible.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 19:07:50 GMT -5
I dont recall what yr the secret sect was written. SS was published in 1982 Thank you. Yes I found that online before I went to sleep.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 19:08:02 GMT -5
I dont recall what yr the secret sect was written. SS was published in 1982 Thank you. Yes I found that online before I went to sleep.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2014 19:11:11 GMT -5
STR I hear you. I remember the joy of hearing gifted teachers expound and it was something I hadnt known in meetings. Im not trying to be degrogatory in my comment. These people had an ability to show you linking scriptures and take you on a journey of understanding. I call it washing your mind with the word. Fascinating topics eg:;Jesus, salvation, prayer, fasting, holy spirit etc Magsmagpie Thats sad. I know stories like that. The Calvary Chapel churches really have a good way of teaching in their bible college and that helps the pastors become used to the scriptures and how to use them...otherwords they use them often...and we know that with the using of the scriptures comes maturity and using the meat of the word...this is what the bible speaks about in as you say "an ability" of taking you on a journey of understanding! Otherwise, it is just staying with the milk of the word which is the beginning story of Jesus Christ and how salvation comes....It seems that if we don't use the scriptures, then we cannot withstand the meat of the word due to a lack of maturity and use! According to the bible. Yes exactly STR. I think thats why there is so much confusion. Heresy. A lack of understanding of some scripture. Btw I mean those comments in the nicest possible way.
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