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Post by déjà vu on Aug 16, 2014 21:23:49 GMT -5
Rev 6:9 ¶ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
I have heard worker speak on this verse explaining that our souls will be asleep till the Lords return. I know some other denominations uphold this doctrine is this scripturally sound ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 21:32:09 GMT -5
i have always heard that preached too, there are a number of verses that talk about sleeping with the fathers, sleep of death and lazarus slept before Jesus raised him from the dead...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 21:50:18 GMT -5
In previous studies of this topic, there were Bible portions like with many other topics, that could persuade me both ways. So without a long and detailed explanation of such passages and studies, all I have to really go by is my own personal experience, where my God revealed to me I did not have to wait until final death to perceive being in the next awareness where so very many more wonders than I could ever have imagined, awaits me.
Even yet, having experienced whatever I did, it is impossible to fully explain. If I were sleeping, then I was experiencing some very new and intense dreams, remembering the great sorrow at having to chose to return to this pain wracked and fevered body, seeing it lying on the bed, with Ylva begging me to live sitting beside my bed, leaning on it and then I was here once again.
And that is what I believe about that. Pretty real for/to me.
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Post by What Hat on Aug 17, 2014 9:03:48 GMT -5
Luke 23:43, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 17, 2014 14:06:45 GMT -5
Rev 6:9 ¶ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
I have heard worker speak on this verse explaining that our souls will be asleep till the Lords return. I know some other denominations uphold this doctrine is this scripturally sound ? They are NOT asleep but their spirits/souls are ALIVE ... God told the to REST/WAIT.... Rev 6:10-11 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Hebrews chapter 11 the Old Testament Heroes of Faith... A Great cloud of Witnesses ALIVE and Watching from above to cheer us on down below to FIGHT on and to Finish with honor.
Luke 16 Lazarus story... The Rich man, Lazarus, and Abraham were ALL alive (their souls/spirits) after death.
Our God is God of the LIVING not of the dead. ALL believers in God do NOT go into a sleep mode after they depart from their earthly bodies... Their souls/spirits return and be with God.
I read this morning that indeed this "sleep" was the "rest" in the "rest from their labors". Otherwords we do not have a Sabbath on earth, but we receive our Sabbath when we die off of the earth and our souls are in Jesus's care and this is where it spoke about each person enters into their Sabbath just as God entered into His Sabbath after all the creation business was done. Hebs. 4:10 A Sabbath-Rest for God's People …9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience
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Post by bubbles on Aug 18, 2014 21:30:56 GMT -5
My soul sleeps every night. Funny thing is Im aware of thought patterns when Im not dreaming.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 19, 2014 16:52:42 GMT -5
My soul sleeps every night. Funny thing is Im aware of thought patterns when Im not dreaming. If we had a "soul" I suppose that we would have "soul sleep"
However, since no one yet has defined what a "soul" is or that one even exists, I can't see why there should be "soul sleep."
It is part of that warm fuzzy, comfy concept that makes dying palatable to Christians, and most all religions for that matter.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 19, 2014 17:27:31 GMT -5
My soul sleeps every night. Funny thing is Im aware of thought patterns when Im not dreaming. If we had a "soul" I suppose that we would have "soul sleep"
However, since no one yet has defined what a "soul" is or that one even exists, I can't see why there should be "soul sleep."
It is part of that warm fuzzy, comfy concept that makes dying palatable to Christians, and most all religions for that matter.
My goodness you are amusing. What do you think you consist of?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 19, 2014 17:38:03 GMT -5
If we had a "soul" I suppose that we would have "soul sleep"
However, since no one yet has defined what a "soul" is or that one even exists, I can't see why there should be "soul sleep."
It is part of that warm fuzzy, comfy concept that makes dying palatable to Christians, and most all religions for that matter.
My goodness you are amusing. What do you think you consist of? Can you describe your 'soul' and where it is?
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Post by bubbles on Aug 19, 2014 17:39:38 GMT -5
My goodness you are amusing. What do you think you consist of? Can you describe your 'soul' and where it is? I asked first.
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Post by rational on Aug 19, 2014 17:44:17 GMT -5
If we had a "soul" I suppose that we would have "soul sleep"
However, since no one yet has defined what a "soul" is or that one even exists, I can't see why there should be "soul sleep."
It is part of that warm fuzzy, comfy concept that makes dying palatable to Christians, and most all religions for that matter.
My goodness you are amusing. What do you think you consist of? A soul doesn't make the list. A sole probably does. One can be measured and evaluated. But Duncan MacDougall was sure the other one could be weighed. I think the number was just over 20 grams. It is a shame he was never able to catch one in a box. It is also too bad that he didn't have better techniques so he would have learned before he died that there was no weight change due to the loss of the soul.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 19, 2014 20:55:51 GMT -5
Can you describe your 'soul' and where it is? I asked first. Ok, your question was: "What do you think you consist of?"
I know that I consist of organic compounds just as all earthly life.
Now, can you answer my question.
What does your "soul" consist of and where is it your body?
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Post by faune on Aug 19, 2014 21:44:21 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 19, 2014 22:34:43 GMT -5
Faune, why would I even consider any answer from the CBS, the Christian Broadcasting System,- the 700 Club's Pat Roberson?
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Post by bubbles on Aug 19, 2014 23:27:42 GMT -5
Ok, your question was: "What do you think you consist of?"
I know that I consist of organic compounds just as all earthly life.
Now, can you answer my question.
What does your "soul" consist of and where is it your body?
Lol. Just organic? You are giving me visuals of potatoes with legs. Obviously our body after death returns to dust. What about our conscious mind? Where does that fit in with organics? And yet there is a connection. Does it have to have a physical substance? Clearly not. Logically I am guided by my conscious mind which is linked to my will. I have the freedom of choice because of it. Is our consciousness a result of the energy that circulates our body? It must be. Thought is a powerful denominator because thought guides me. Gives me the red or the green light. my mind is sometimes guided by emotions a lot really. Spontaniety for example. THEN Theres the saying 'the eyes are the window of the soul'. Recently when I looked into the eyes of a huge camel it dropped to the ground lay his/her neck down at my feet and his head below me on the ground shutting his eyes. I was filled with awe at the power of peace as I spoke gently adoringly into his being. The thing is he let me this was the most awesome experience I have had. The oneness of being. Hundreds flooded around us to see. I think he saw my soul.he was unafraid.
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Post by rational on Aug 20, 2014 6:25:17 GMT -5
There is actually more inorganic matter! It might seem obvious but the bulk of it returns to water vapor! No more than the electrical current in a lamp wire after you unplug it from the main circuit. As long as it stays alive the sodium ion pumps and the rest continue to function and you have thoughts and what you can consider a conscious mind. Pull the plug and it is as active as a cell phone without its battery. Well, there is a 'biological/chemical 'soup'. This would be a great topic for discussion. Except for the word 'circulates' I would agree. Care to explain the circulation? Perhaps the emotions are just a little different mix of chemicals. With the addition of some hormones. Blends in with the discussion topic above. Best not to explore 'sayings' too deeply. At least it didn't spit! An interesting experience but hardly an objective observation.
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Post by faune on Aug 20, 2014 9:06:35 GMT -5
DMG ~ In answer to your question about body, soul, and spirit and where the soul is located in your body, I wanted to present that second article mainly in explanation. Unfortunately, I can't get the link to work correctly, so here it is in its entirety. Basically, man is a triune being, created in God's image, which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body. Below are three separate questions about the soul in bold print with the answers below.
www.changinglives.org/tabid/2623/Default.aspx?cat=Spirit,%20Soul%20and%20Body
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Post by snow on Aug 20, 2014 10:53:21 GMT -5
Ok, your question was: "What do you think you consist of?"
I know that I consist of organic compounds just as all earthly life.
Now, can you answer my question.
What does your "soul" consist of and where is it your body?
Lol. Just organic? You are giving me visuals of potatoes with legs. Obviously our body after death returns to dust. What about our conscious mind? Where does that fit in with organics? And yet there is a connection. Does it have to have a physical substance? Clearly not. Logically I am guided by my conscious mind which is linked to my will. I have the freedom of choice because of it. Is our consciousness a result of the energy that circulates our body? It must be. Thought is a powerful denominator because thought guides me. Gives me the red or the green light. my mind is sometimes guided by emotions a lot really. Spontaniety for example. THEN Theres the saying 'the eyes are the window of the soul'. Recently when I looked into the eyes of a huge camel it dropped to the ground lay his/her neck down at my feet and his head below me on the ground shutting his eyes. I was filled with awe at the power of peace as I spoke gently adoringly into his being. The thing is he let me this was the most awesome experience I have had. The oneness of being. Hundreds flooded around us to see. I think he saw my soul.he was unafraid. The mind is very unstable. All it takes is a chemical imbalance (even in sugar levels for eg.) and we see a whole different person complete with different characteristics etc. So it shows us that we are dependent upon the chemical make up of our bodies, the way our neurons fire etc. for our very personality. You have any major fluctuation due to upsets in the body, and you can experience hallucinations, auditory, visual etc. We may be conscious, but that consciousness is very dependent on everything working right in our bodies for us to be considered 'normal' in our thoughts and actions.
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Post by faune on Aug 20, 2014 11:44:35 GMT -5
Snow ~ I agree with your statement. A chemical imbalance can truly produce a whole different person from your normal personality due to chemical changes in your brain. There are definitely chemical reactions that take place on a daily basis to keep us in the realm of normalcy ~ no doubt about it. When anything upsets the apple cart, we can begin experiencing hallucinations, auditory, visual, etc., due to things being off biochemically within our bodies that can affect thought functions along with a number of other things.
Snow shared...
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 20, 2014 12:25:09 GMT -5
Ok, your question was: "What do you think you consist of?"
I know that I consist of organic compounds just as all earthly life.
Now, can you answer my question.
What does your "soul" consist of and where is it your body?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THEN Theres the saying 'the eyes are the window of the soul'. Recently when I looked into the eyes of a huge camel it dropped to the ground lay his/her neck down at my feet and his head below me on the ground shutting his eyes.
I was filled with awe at the power of peace as I spoke gently adoringly into his being. The thing is he let me this was the most awesome experience I have had. The oneness of being. Hundreds flooded around us to see. I think he saw my soul. he was unafraid. Did it even enter your "conscious mind" that the camel was simply tired & decided it was time to take a nap? or perhaps ill?
You seem to think that it had everything to do with YOU. Why was your first & apparently only thought was that you were the only thing affecting the camel? Isn't that a lot of hubris on your part?
You said that you "spoke gently adoringly into his being." If true, then why was "he was unafraid."
(I posted something last night that apparently failed to post- I will repost it later)
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 20, 2014 12:35:35 GMT -5
DMG ~ In answer to your question about body, soul, and spirit and where the soul is located in your body, I wanted to present that second article mainly in explanation. Unfortunately, I can't get the link to work correctly, so here it is in its entirety. Basically, man is a triune being, created in God's image, which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body. Below are three separate questions about the soul in bold print with the answers below.
www.changinglives.org/tabid/2623/Default.aspx?cat=Spirit,%20Soul%20and%20Body
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I wasn't able to pull up that second link that you gave. Now that you have quoted it, why would I put any credence in that article anymore than I also don't put any credence into the first one?
Who wrote that article? Obviously a Christian because it quotes biblical scripture.
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Post by faune on Aug 20, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5
DMG ~ In answer to your question about body, soul, and spirit and where the soul is located in your body, I wanted to present that second article mainly in explanation. Unfortunately, I can't get the link to work correctly, so here it is in its entirety. Basically, man is a triune being, created in God's image, which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body. Below are three separate questions about the soul in bold print with the answers included.
www.changinglives.org/tabid/2623/Default.aspx?cat=Spirit,%20Soul%20and%20Body
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I wasn't able to pull up that second link that you gave. Now that you have quoted it, why would I put any credence in that article anymore than I also don't put any credence into the first one?
Who wrote that article? Obviously a Christian because it quotes biblical scripture. DMG ~ Obviously, you're right? However, it's not connected to CBN, so I figured it might be more acceptable with you? I actually thought this guy did a great job explaining the difference here, which leaves a lot of people confused ~ just like the Trinity concept.
Actually, what harm can it do you to review the views of Christian sources anyway for an answer to something relating to the spiritual nature and make-up of man? Just because it's not a secular references doesn't disqualify what the writer has to say? JMT
P.S. ~ DMG ~ I stand corrected. The guy who wrote this article is also connected to CBN. Sorry, DMG! However, I can understand your sentiment concerning the prosperity teachers and health and wealth gurus that populate CBN network and I share your sentiment. They are all in it for the same thing ~ to line their pockets with plenty of Ben Franklins by selling their own version of the gospel message.
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Post by faune on Aug 20, 2014 13:07:09 GMT -5
Faune wrote: Basically, man is a Triune being (body, Soul, and spirit), created in God's image (Genesis 1: 26) which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body=Triune God.~~ NathanB: I say a BIG Amen! sister. VERY good illustration of the Trinity-Triune God (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) and man (body, soul, and spirit) in One Body/Godhead. People can understand this illustration of the Triune God in One body/Being. Nathan ~ Thanks for re-emphasizing that fact of the triune nature of man as well as God. I believe this image of One Body/Godhead is clearly presented in scripture and makes sense when you really give it some thought? However, this similar observation is often overlooked by many in discussing the wonders of creation and mankind.
My response to DMG...
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 20, 2014 13:20:16 GMT -5
Ok, your question was: "What do you think you consist of?"
I know that I consist of organic compounds just as all earthly life.
Now, can you answer my question.
What does your "soul" consist of and where is it your body?
Lol. Just organic? You are giving me visuals of potatoes with legs. Obviously our body after death returns to dust. What about our conscious mind? Where does that fit in with organics? And yet there is a connection. Does it have to have a physical substance? Clearly not.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are correct in that our 'conscious mind' doesn't have a physical substance.
So where does your 'conscious mind' come from? What organ of the body produces it? The brain?
The organ of the body, the heart, pumps oxygenated blood that the heart gets from another organ, the lungs, to that organ, the brain, where your 'conscious mind' resides.
Isn't the 'conscious mind' the results or product of that organ known as a 'brain' but NOT an organ in or of itself?
If any part of that path fails, your lungs collapses, the heart ceases to pump, the oxygen doesn't reach the brain, -the brain ceases to have any electrical activity & poof! no 'conscious mind' continues to exist!
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Post by rational on Aug 20, 2014 13:35:50 GMT -5
DMG ~ In answer to your question about body, soul, and spirit and where the soul is located in your body, I wanted to present that second article mainly in explanation. Unfortunately, I can't get the link to work correctly, so here it is in its entirety. Basically, man is a triune being, created in God's image, which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body. Below are three separate questions about the soul in bold print with the answers below.
[a href="http://www.changinglives.org I am shocked that you would use Gregory Dickows as a reference for anything but pointing how many religious steal from the very people who look to them for help. Wasn't Dickows the man who said god wanted him to raise $15+ million and said the flock should do whatever necessary to raise the funds? Sell their cars. Get secone and third jobs. Skip vacation. Dickow lifestyle, of course, does not reflect these ideals!
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 20, 2014 13:37:04 GMT -5
I wasn't able to pull up that second link that you gave. Now that you have quoted it, why would I put any credence in that article anymore than I also don't put any credence into the first one?
Who wrote that article? Obviously a Christian because it quotes biblical scripture. DMG ~ Obviously, you're right? However, it's not connected to CBN, so I figured it might be more acceptable with you? I actually thought this guy did a great job explaining the difference here, which leaves a lot of people confused ~ just like the Trinity concept.
Actually, what harm can it do you to review the views of Christian sources anyway for an answer to something relating to the spiritual nature and make-up of man? Just because it's not a secular references doesn't disqualify what the writer has to say? JMT
I wasn't able to pull up that second link that you gave. Now that you have quoted it, why would I put any credence in that article anymore than I also don't put any credence into the first one?
Who wrote that article? Obviously a Christian because it quotes biblical scripture. DMG ~ Obviously, you're right? However, it's not connected to CBN, so I figured it might be more acceptable with you? I actually thought this guy did a great job explaining the difference here, which leaves a lot of people confused ~ just like the Trinity concept.
Actually, what harm can it do you to review the views of Christian sources anyway for an answer to something relating to the spiritual nature and make-up of man? Just because it's not a secular references doesn't disqualify what the writer has to say? JMT
I doesn't harm me to review Christian sources , but since I have already reviewed many, many of such sources, I simply would be wasting my time!
I have read so many of the apologists who try to prove something that simply has no truth, it makes no sense to further waste my time.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 20, 2014 13:41:58 GMT -5
Can you describe your 'soul' and where it is? I asked first. OK. Now I answered your questions Now will you answer my questions?Can you describe your 'soul' and where it is?
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Post by faune on Aug 20, 2014 13:43:48 GMT -5
DMG ~ In answer to your question about body, soul, and spirit and where the soul is located in your body, I wanted to present that second article mainly in explanation. Unfortunately, I can't get the link to work correctly, so here it is in its entirety. Basically, man is a triune being, created in God's image, which is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit contained in one body. Below are three separate questions about the soul in bold print with the answers below.
[a href="http://www.changinglives.org I am shocked that you would use Gregory Dickows as a reference for anything but pointing how many religious steal from the very people who look to them for help. Wasn't Dickows the man who said god wanted him to raise $15+ million and said the flock should do whatever necessary to raise the funds? Sell their cars. Get secone and third jobs. Skip vacation. Dickow lifestyle, of course, does not reflect these ideals!Rational ~ I wasn't aware of the author's background. Thanks for sharing that info. with me. Under the circumstances, I tend to agree with your concluding remarks. However, he did made some points that I agreed with regardless of his extravagant lifestyle and practices. I see he's also connected with CBN and the Word-Faith Movement, which does speak volumes by itself. These people, who are the prosperity teachers and health and wealth gurus, are definitely in it for the money they can gain off their contributors!
www.spirisweet thingch.org/firefaith5.htm
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