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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2014 12:43:55 GMT -5
I guess those who stand for nothing or have nothing to protect don't have to worry about persecution. Maybe its because they do not state the beliefs of others are wrong and will condemn them to a lost eternity. It is telling that you think that because people do not believe in a paranormal being that they stand for nothing or have nothing to protect. The only thing they do not have is an unsupported belief in a paranormal being. I think some atheists do suffer from persecution by narrow minded bigots who cannot conceive of existing without the belief in some paranormal being.
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Post by xna on Jul 12, 2014 13:26:29 GMT -5
"christians do not kill other people period" ------------------------------------------- Support for the Death Penalty Is Strongest Among Religious White People Across the nation's religious groups, support and opposition varies dramatically. 67 percent of white evangelical Protestants favor the death penalty. 64 percent of white mainline Protestants do. 58 percent of black Protestants oppose the death penalty, making them the group most strongly opposed to it (33 percent support it). 54 percent of Hispanic Catholics oppose it, while 37 percent support it. www.thewire.com/national/2014/03/support-for-the-death-penalty-is-strongest-among-religious-white-people/359829/
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 15:08:37 GMT -5
I didn't disagree with that. Are you trying to convince me or someone of something? Just curious. It doesn't matter to me what you're convinced of. You made what I consider a rather strange statement: Interestingly, in New Zealand you can be arrested for saying you're an atheist. ...so I suppose its OK for me to make statements of my own. What is strange about that. I didn't say you "would" get arrested, I said you "could" get arrested. Then YOU found the law that "could", possibly in the right circumstances, support that -- and now you think I said something strange. What is strange to me is that you seem to be trying to explain to me that NZ has a law on the books that no one has any intention of enforcing, as though that were something strange. That's pretty normal in democracies. In this country we have laws on the books that forbid allowing chickens to walk in the street on Sundays. The problem is, democracies are notorious for holding onto laws that they think will disappear if you don't obey them for a while. Like the US Bill of Rights.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 15:20:21 GMT -5
Islam got a few centuries later beginning that Christianity did. Islam had a more advanced and even more humane civilisation than Christianity in the middle ages, but the extremist element has been dragging it backwards. You're forgetting the few hundred years where the West destroyed Middle Eastern society with a fury. Have you heard about the crusades? The terrorists came after the crusades. It is going to continue to be like this until the West relinquishes its "interests" in the Middle East. ISIS, unfortunately, is probably the first logical step toward that solution.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 12, 2014 15:55:09 GMT -5
If Donald Trump was President he would sort it out.
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Post by fixit on Jul 12, 2014 16:30:31 GMT -5
Islam had a more advanced and even more humane civilisation than Christianity in the middle ages, but the extremist element has been dragging it backwards. You're forgetting the few hundred years where the West destroyed Middle Eastern society with a fury. Have you heard about the crusades? The terrorists came after the crusades. It is going to continue to be like this until the West relinquishes its "interests" in the Middle East. ISIS, unfortunately, is probably the first logical step toward that solution. We should revert to the Middle East borders in 624 when Islam began its imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Christian and Jewish lands.
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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2014 16:33:30 GMT -5
Bob wrote: Interestingly, in New Zealand you can be arrested for saying you're an atheist. We should send all the paranoid Christians to NZ. You have not shown the law where a person gets arrested for saying they are an atheist. Blasphemy is not saying you are an atheist. I think anyone could make a case of blasphemy against someone who claims there is no god.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 18:07:57 GMT -5
One religion killing members of another religion. What else is new? My god is better than your god syndrome. Christians used to kill other Christians just because they didn't agree on doctrine. And on it goes... they weren't christians then Woopee!
Great argument based on circular reasoning in a nut shell!
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:41:31 GMT -5
You're forgetting the few hundred years where the West destroyed Middle Eastern society with a fury. Have you heard about the crusades? The terrorists came after the crusades. It is going to continue to be like this until the West relinquishes its "interests" in the Middle East. ISIS, unfortunately, is probably the first logical step toward that solution. We should revert to the Middle East borders in 624 when Islam began its imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Christian and Jewish lands. It's too late for that to just happen -- WE cannot just let it happen. But yes, WE made the mistake that started it all; but WE tend to think that THEY started it with THEIR terrorists. And that is how it will be as long as our attitude is US and THEM.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 18:50:19 GMT -5
Bob wrote: Interestingly, in New Zealand you can be arrested for saying you're an atheist. We should send all the paranoid Christians to NZ. You have not shown the law where a person gets arrested for saying they are an atheist. Blasphemy is not saying you are an atheist. I think anyone could make a case of blasphemy against someone who claims there is no god. Now I think if I had never mentioned the NZ law, and started this dialogue with "Professing atheism is not blasphemous", the response would be quite the opposite. It has a lot to do with "who" says "what".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 19:41:01 GMT -5
even if they have a thought of death to another goes against the statues that Jesus laid down like love thy neighbour as thyself, so therefore can't be christian So what do you call them -- Muslims? why would you do that? they are just plain human beings without Christ
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 19:48:59 GMT -5
"christians do not kill other people period." -------------------------- I guess these were not "TRUE" Christians; doctors killed at abortion clinics, Jim Jones, witch trials, crusade, inquisition, ... There are many books written on Christian killing. Here are a few. Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History. James A. Haught, Holy Horrors. J.N. Hillgarth, Christianity and Paganism, 350-750. Malcolm Lambert, Medieval Heresy. Edward Peters, Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe. R. Dean Peterson, A Concise History of Christianity. Mark Juergensmeyer, Terror in the Mind of God: The Global Rise of Religious Violence Thankfully Christianity has reformed, now we need Islam to do the same. Christians still kill people, and think of it far more than they do it. I don't think Muslims are any more bloodthirsty than Christians in the "thought" department. I think it will always be that way -- normal human beings are always more human than spiritual. christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings
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Post by matisse on Jul 12, 2014 19:49:41 GMT -5
So what do you call them -- Muslims? why would you do that? they are just plain human beings without Christ We are all just plain human beings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 19:52:29 GMT -5
christians do not kill other people period Ok, that seems unambiguous. Can it be said with the same certainty that Christians do not (for examples)......... Steal? Lie? Covet? Commit adultery? Break the speed limit? Commit CSA? Bear false witness? I`m trying to understand if there is a certain list or level of sins/crimes that would preclude you from calling someone a Christian? which of those listed above would preclude Jesus from calling someone a Christian? what does Jesus say in the Scripture of those above?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 19:55:13 GMT -5
why would you do that? they are just plain human beings without Christ We are all just plain human beings. yes we understand that
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Post by xna on Jul 12, 2014 20:19:27 GMT -5
Christians still kill people, and think of it far more than they do it. I don't think Muslims are any more bloodthirsty than Christians in the "thought" department. I think it will always be that way -- normal human beings are always more human than spiritual. christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.'
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 12, 2014 20:20:23 GMT -5
Absolutely great site! All TRUE Christians & ALL TRUE atheists should watch that one!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 20:41:44 GMT -5
christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, your turn
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Post by fixit on Jul 12, 2014 21:04:38 GMT -5
We should revert to the Middle East borders in 624 when Islam began its imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Christian and Jewish lands. It's too late for that to just happen -- WE cannot just let it happen. But yes, WE made the mistake that started it all; but WE tend to think that THEY started it with THEIR terrorists. And that is how it will be as long as our attitude is US and THEM. Settle down. By "we" I meant "mankind".
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Post by xna on Jul 12, 2014 21:28:33 GMT -5
Matthew-15-4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.' Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, your turn Thou shalt no kill was in the Ten Commandments, but afterwords there are many examples where god commanded killings, which is the exact opposite of his Thou shall not kill commandment! Latter on in Matthew you also have the verse "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill". The bible has many such contradicting verses. The bible is full of blood and violence; humans killing humans for god; god killing nearly all life on earth, not to mention eternal torture and torment. The bible also has good advice: peace, love, kindness, forgiveness, etc. The problem is using the bible you can pick and choose verses and make your "customized version of Christianity". You can choose to emphasis some verses and de-emphasis other verses to make your "customized version of Christianity". You can then give it a name as most do, or take no official name as the 2x2 do, then claim you have the one true Christian way, and declare all the rest - not true Christians. Sadly that movie has been made a thousand times.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 22:22:35 GMT -5
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, your turn Thou shalt no kill was in the Ten Commandments, but afterwords there are many examples where god commanded killings, which is the exact opposite of his Thou shall not kill commandment! Latter on in Matthew you also have the verse "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill". The bible has many such contradicting verses. The bible is full of blood and violence; humans killing humans for god; god killing nearly all life on earth, not to mention eternal torture and torment. The bible also has good advice: peace, love, kindness, forgiveness, etc. The problem is using the bible you can pick and choose verses and make your "customized version of Christianity". You can choose to emphasis some verses and de-emphasis other verses to make your "customized version of Christianity". You can then give it a name as most do, or take no official name as the 2x2 do, then claim you have the one true Christian way, and declare all the rest - not true Christians. Sadly that movie has been made a thousand times. actually someone who speaks and reads hebrew told me(rumor) that it actually reads something like "thou shalt not lay in wait to do harm" which lends itself to murder more than just "kill"
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 22:56:21 GMT -5
So what do you call them -- Muslims? why would you do that? they are just plain human beings without Christ They call themselves Christians, but you say they're not Christians. I can see you going up to one neighbor and saying, "I understand you're a Muslim. Can I ask you something about that?....." And going up to your other neighbor and saying, "I understand you are a human being without Christ. Can I ask you something about that?...." Or say about another neighbor, "He's not a Christian; he's a human being without Christ and goes to the Catholic church." Or maybe you don't talk to people and you don't need a word for those kinds of people. I knew a worker who told us he never called "outsiders" Christians, always "So-called Christians". Of course, that wasn't the goofiest thing he claimed he did.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 23:01:40 GMT -5
Christians still kill people, and think of it far more than they do it. I don't think Muslims are any more bloodthirsty than Christians in the "thought" department. I think it will always be that way -- normal human beings are always more human than spiritual. christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings Come on, virgo. You know darn well what I mean. You'll soon have yourself deprived of being a Christian if you keep it up.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 12, 2014 23:06:25 GMT -5
It's too late for that to just happen -- WE cannot just let it happen. But yes, WE made the mistake that started it all; but WE tend to think that THEY started it with THEIR terrorists. And that is how it will be as long as our attitude is US and THEM. Settle down. By "we" I meant "mankind". You would -- as long as "WE WEsterners" apply their blame to everyone else.
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Post by fixit on Jul 12, 2014 23:20:23 GMT -5
"WE WEsterners" would be idiots to not defend our hard-won freedoms.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 23:20:36 GMT -5
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, your turn Thou shalt no kill was in the Ten Commandments, but afterwords there are many examples where god commanded killings, which is the exact opposite of his Thou shall not kill commandment! Latter on in Matthew you also have the verse "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill". The bible has many such contradicting verses. The bible is full of blood and violence; humans killing humans for god; god killing nearly all life on earth, not to mention eternal torture and torment. The bible also has good advice: peace, love, kindness, forgiveness, etc. The problem is using the bible you can pick and choose verses and make your "customized version of Christianity". You can choose to emphasis some verses and de-emphasis other verses to make your "customized version of Christianity". You can then give it a name as most do, or take no official name as the 2x2 do, then claim you have the one true Christian way, and declare all the rest - not true Christians. Sadly that movie has been made a thousand times. ah i didn't make those verses up myself they are straight out o dee bible
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 23:27:29 GMT -5
why would you do that? they are just plain human beings without Christ yup i could call myself an aussie but i'm not that's nice i didn't know i had that in me do i start with you nar couldn't see that couldn't follow your lead on that one and
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 23:30:29 GMT -5
christians don't kill people, and i don't think or as far as i understand that muslims are suppose to like peaceably with all men, so if that's right then those who kill are just using the names of christian and muslim as lables and or not true to said doctrines of both followings Come on, virgo. You know darn well what I mean. You'll soon have yourself deprived of being a Christian if you keep it up. nice of you to warn me, thanks
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