Thịnh came to our house saying that his sister Hải and his cousin Cường (both workers) were very afraid of Darrel T. Not only them, but almost all of the Workers were very afraid of Darrel, who was their Overseer. They were fearful that if they didn’t obey his rule or demands that they might be kicked out of the work.
Uncle Châu’s heart letter, written from Australia in August 2013, gave the same advice. "Friends should obey every demand of the Workers, even things that seem not right." The Overseer’s staff are the first people who prove that the Overseer’s demand is right--even when it does not seem right.
After they chased out Uncle Chau, the Fellowship Meeting at my house became terrible. Some disagreed with Darrel’s decision and others supported Darrel. Then the Fellowship became a place to stone one another. I sent an email to Uncle Dale telling of this situation!!! Bible Studies
Before the Canadian Overseers arrived, we were taught by Brothers Châu and Hoa that the first thing we needed to do when getting up every morning was to pray, meditate. After that, according to individual family, all the family members gathered together at appropriate time (early morning is the best) and studied the Bible. But now, Brother Darrel says “No studying together. Study individually.”
One day Miss E.M and Miss Hải, two sister workers, arranged to have a meal and pass a night at my parents’ house. They all had a very good time together. Before going to sleep, my father said to them, “Tomorrow my family will have Bible study at 5:30 AM. If possible, you may come to study with us.”
Early the next morning, both of them went down to the living room for Bible study with my parents, my oldest sister and her husband. There were 6 members sitting around the table. They had a wonderful time sharing spiritual bread together. After breakfast, they returned to their bach.
However a few hours later, both of them returned to my parents’ house again, explaining and saying, “We’re sorry for having the Bible study with you this morning…we shouldn’t have done that because we should have had private study.” So sorry, sorry, etc.… all the time!!!
Remembering the new changes from Darrel about families studying the Bible in the morning, my father said: “You didn’t do anything wrong with us. Since yesterday, we all have had a wonderful time together. We only had a meal, slept, ate, studied Bible, slept, ate. So there is no cause for you to say you’re sorry to me. Maybe Darrel is the one you should say you’re sorry to, because he prevented the Friends and Workers from studying Bible within family in the morning.”
At first Miss E.M & Hải did the right thing by studying the Bible with my parents, my sister and her husband. But when they returned their bach, they were somehow reminded of Darrel’s rule. Maybe they were instructed to return to my parents’ house and say they were wrong to study the Bible with them that morning. I feel it is really like a Tragi-comedy they had performed !!!
My daughter fell in love with a good person in life. Just only one thing made him become bad in "2x2" eyes as mine. That was that he wasn't a professing man. Many times we persuaded our daughter to wait until finding a Friend in the Fellowship suitable for her. There were some young Friends wanting to marry her, but there were some little differences that we could not get over.
It was her second year in University. I persuaded her to fulfill her study first. Because it was very hard for us to support her study, we had managed our best for her to study. Not only us, but she also worked at night time and on weekends as a processing worker in the same place where I was working. All the payment went for her study first.
The harder she worked and studied, the more precious she became in her friend's eyes. It also appeared that he was worthy of her too. But in spite of all their effort, in our 2x2 eyes, my daughter should not marry a person outside The Truth. After hearing some advice from Uncle Châu, we tried to prevent them. I followed her closely every time I could which made my daughter become sad and depressed. She didn't want to talk with us, cried quietly with her sadness for months. When my daughter graduated and went to work, I couldn't control her anymore.
Not passive like our daughter, her more active friend faced us and asked, "We love each other. We have proven that we are worthy to be one in love. Many other parents want me to marry their daughter, why don’t you? What is wrong in me that causes you prevent our love? While the whole society agrees and support to us?"
Of course, we couldn't find any wrongness in his manner, except he wasn't in our Fellowship. In spite of our prevention, they were successful in keeping their love alive for 6 years!!!
With the support of relatives on both my and my husband's sides, we finally agreed for my daughter to marry, because they were both worthy with their love. Believing in their love won our favor and both of them prepared much for a wedding and their new life.
Then it was time to persuade the Workers for their wedding. I didn't want to lose my daughter. Of course, no Workers performed the wedding service, but I asked Morris G. (the Overseer who was in our field) to give us a chance to invite the Friends and Workers to the wedding feast for one day only before my daughter's wedding, so Friends could know and meet my daughter and my son-in-law too.
Morris heard my plan and agreed. We went on to fulfill our plans. Everything was settled. Then I received a phone call from Uncle Châu (Neither Uncle Châu or Uncle Hoa were staying in Saigon at that time, and neither were present at my daughter's wedding). Uncle Châu informed me that we shouldn't invite Friends to my daughter's wedding. I asked the reason why. He said others would do the same--marry people outside. He told us that the Workers were going to prevent Friends from coming--even though Morris had agreed earlier and we had everything already arranged and money already paid for the feast.
Disappointed and seeing we were not worthy to be in the Fellowship because we had agreed for our daughter to marry a person outside, I said to uncle Châu "I can't bear with things happening like this, I can not continue in this way... I would better stop now!!!"
However, I really didn't mean that I wanted to leave or stop. I said that just because I felt very sad with the way the Workers were going back on their agreement and our discussion about my daughter's wedding feast. I said that because I felt unworthy to be in the Perfect Way, and was deeply saddened because my daughter was marrying an unprofessing man. Now, it was my turn to be depressed and sad.
Since we were for a long time in close cooperation with Workers in unity, loved the Friends and respected the Workers; and also seeing the wedding plans were all settled, and maybe being afraid I may stop in the Way because of sadness, the Workers finally agreed for Friends to come. Uncle Châu asked Mr. Bram to come as well, to comfort us. (Mr. Bram had come to the South that day).
Through time, they have proved their worthiness and true love together. My son-in-law is not only a good person in society, but also a very loving husband with his wife, and a wonderful father in his children's eye and in our eyes too. Writing this, I regret that I prevented their love in the past, but maybe going through hard times in love, they value the happiness more that they struggled for. Shunning by Lyle Shultz
We saw that things were changing and were no longer like the Golden Time of Uncles Fred, Châu and Hoa. We were all in the Fellowship with Friends and Workers. Even after they chased out Uncle Châu, we remained in the Fellowship. While we were asking questions and waiting for the answers to understand all the changing and happenings and while disagreeing with the way the Overseers were changing things and were sad with the mess, we still kept on in the Fellowship. Even though Uncle Hoa stopped cooperating with the Overseers, my parents and we still continued to Fellowship with Friends at my sister's place. During this time many stones were thrown in the Fellowship Meetings.
Seeing that we still respected, agreed and supported Uncle Hoa's work, gradually Mr. Lyle changed his face and became cool to me. Then I noticed that he didn't want to shake hands with me. I told my sister about his actions. At first she didn't believe what I told her. After the next meeting at her place, Mr. Lyle went around shaking hands with each member in the meeting. My sister and I were standing in front of him and he shook hands with my sister, ignored me and went ahead to the next Friend and shook their hands. Smiling and glancing at my sister, I asked her, "Now that you witnessed it with your own eyes, do you believe me?" Immediately my sister pulled his sleeve and asked him, "Why you don't shake hands with my sister?" Of course, he didn't know that was the day I wanted to prove his actions to my sister. He then turned back and shook hands with me, saying, "Sorry, I haven't shaken hands with you!" As for me, Uncle Lyle is really a twisting man.
Tân and Bình, a very faithful couple (ex-Elders) told us the same story; that Mr. Lyle S. shows them his cool face also, seeing that they still cooperated with us and Uncle Hoa, visiting Friends in the countryside. When I told Uncle Châu this story, he said to me, "I don't want to hear. Don't judge others. If you still tell the wrong about others, I will not contact with you anymore." My answer to Uncle Châu was, "I just tell you the truth. You may ask my sister whether it was true or not."
Uncle Lyle began trying to push us out. When my sister was repairing her house, he removed the Fellowship Meeting from her house permanently. That was where we and my parents had gathered for Fellowship with Friends. However, we were not cut off from the Fellowship with God, and He has given us sweet Fellowship now, without any stones.
Cherie: It is interesting what Lyle wrote in his letter about Uncle Hoa: “Our friends are at liberty to receive Uncle Hoa into their homes for a visit if they feel comfortable with that. We are not going to try to monitor or control that. We know that many will not feel comfortable about him visiting their home as long as he is not in hearty Fellowship with the teachers in this country.” The implication is that we’re not going to tell you to shun Uncle Hoa, but if you’re really hearty in the Fellowship, you won’t feel comfortable having Uncle Hoa around. The Past Belongs to the Devil
A young Worker repeated the same thing she heard her companion say, something that was not in the Bible. My husband asked her, "Please show me where the Bible says, ‘The past belongs to the devil?’ as you preached. We have read through the Bible many times, but never saw anything written there that said, ‘The past belongs to the devil.’ ”
Her reply was: "I heard it from a Worker, not the Bible." Workers (special Workers recruited by Darrel often mention something in their speech to portray Uncle Hoa was false or acted wrong, belongs to devil, or something negative like that. We were tired of hearing it and we didn't receive any help from the way they preached. Most all of them are young, and this young Worker was just saying the same as her companion had said in the past.
Immediately the two sister workers reported our conversation to Lyle. Uncle Lyle came to our house and said, "Because you do not support the young Worker, you shall never have the Fellowship gathering at your home again." We never want to support people that say things not written in the Bible. The Young People’s Meeting
Xuan Hoan: After our wedding in 1979, my wife came to Dalat with me where we lived for 24 years. In 2002 we moved to Saigon. One of the joys of our family when returning to Saigon was that we often had Fellowship Meetings with many Friends and often had Workers besides to take care of. At that time in Saigon alone, there were six Workers, split into three fields. I also thought that our children's spiritual lives benefited by the move.
The young Friends were often gathered by overseer. About ten years ago, our family had just moved to Saigon, and a gathering was held at the home of my youngest sister-in-law. My son was invited to attend that gathering through mobile phone message together with his other cousins.
My father-in-law was very enthusiastic, caring about all activities in God's way. He had many grandchildren, and he always said: "My wish is to see the grandchildren choose the best things…such as offering their lives for God's work." And my father-in-law, as well as my little sister-in-law's family, hoped very much her eldest daughter had that wish. (Now, my father-in-law directly told her to marry.)
But regrettably, this particular gathering reserved for young Friends disturbed the spirit, not only of our son, but also ours as parents. We did not know the subject of that gathering until the problem happened. The next day my little sister-in-law boomingly came to my parents in-law, and retold the whole content of that gathering. My sister-in-law told my father that our son had destroyed the godly spirit of the gathering for young Friends. After he finished listening, my father-in-law hastily rode the motorbike to my house and immediately called my son out to reprove him.
Of course, my son felt hurt, which was inherently of few words. Later he said to us, "From now on, don't call me to attend young Friends' gathering any more.”
We asked each person thoroughly about the gathering. My wife was especially very worried and asked about the young people who were preparing to go to work such as Cuong and Hai (now they are Workers). Turned out that it was a gathering in which the Overseer (Darrel T.) asked each young Friend to utter their wishes and future plans. Almost all the young Friends expressed their wish to choose the best thing, offering their life to God. Only our son said, "I wish to have a beautiful wife, to buy a car and build a house with many floors…!"
According to my sister-in-law, the thought expressed by her nephew of three generations in the Truth was a shame, and she named many young Friends in other families who spoke beautiful and godly words, which made my father-in-law angry.
In order to resolve the problem, at a meal my wife softly asked our son. He only answered succinctly: "They are my real wishes. They asked me to express my heart, and I had to say what was really in my heart. They felt I am not godly. Please don't ask me to attend the young Friends' gathering any more."
In our opinion, we didn't blame our son because he had expressed from his real heart when he was asked. And we have drawn a conclusion that it is easy to become a hypocrite in an organisation because people want to hear beautiful words, rather than real heart words.
It's no wonder Darrel T. has been praised for the large number of young Vietnamese people who have or want to go in the work while he has been the VN Overseer. In many third world countries--Vietnam, Philippines, India, Korea and other countries--a country girl or boy barely out of high school can suddenly become a respected "Teacher" (Worker) without any training and enjoy a reasonably good life style as long as he or she obeys the instructions of their senior companion and their overseer. With little firsthand Bible knowledge or experience, they can repeat the teachings they’ve heard from the foreign workers. So of course, there is usually a waiting list of wannabe workers/teachers in third world countries. Working on a New VN Hymnbook
Right after we had moved to Saigon, Ms Ân came to our house asking my husband how to write music on the computer. (Ân is one of my relatives on my mother's side, and at that time she was starting in the work and she exerted herself to the utmost to catch the Overseer's sight. Now she is a big help for Overseers in Vietnam.)
My husband worked on computers, but most all his work was in network. That was the subject he taught for students. Anyway, we heard from Ms Ân that Darrel had asked her to manage the project "Rewriting all the hymns on the computer.”
We used to have two printed hymnbooks before Liberation Day. The first book has 138 hymns. The second book has 100 hymns, most of them written by hand. We used these books together until the time we changed and numbered the hymns in the same order as the English hymnbook.
Hearing about this big project from Ms Ân, my husband was excited to cooperate with her, and to find a program suitable for that project. After considering carefully, he chose the Sibilius program. He wasn't a musician so he didn't know much about music. I had learned a little about music from Uncle Châu. Then my husband asked me to read and learn how to use the Sibilus program.
I used to be an accountant. Because of moving to Saigon, I had to stop my work, and my friends introduced me to a new job in Saigon. My husband said, "I can manage our life with my teaching. This project is more important than you going to work."
From the beginning, it was a big headache for me to learn the Sibilius program. I really didn't know the least bit about it. He persuaded me to learn day or night, even when I was waiting at the hospital for treatment! Learn...learn...learn...under the pressure of my husband, and then to practise on computer. After many times of failing, at last I could work with it.
It is a long story and many things happened along the way that I just couldn't understand!!! But now I understand all very clearly. Many times I wanted to give up, because of failing and rewriting. But my father and my husband encouraged me by saying: "God wanted you to move to Saigon for this work." So I tried through a couple of years until we could work through with Sibilius music program. We started working with Sibilius1, and after many failures, my husband found many faults in this program. He managed to help me in many others method to fulfill my work.
I love playing the organ, but play very little, just enough for playing hymns. That's all of my purpose, for whenever I feel sad or disappointed, I can play to encourage myself. When I was young, I loved to go to the party for singing and dancing, and all the activities of the young people in the big city. My classmates opened a party any time we had free time. Seeing this influence from life, Uncle Châu recommended I study to play hymns with the organ. Even now, whenever hearing music, immediately my body moves with the rhythm of the music. Anyway, many thanks for Uncle Châu having taught me, not much but enough for me to enjoy myself and work with the Sibilius music program.
I went through many feelings, tiredness, sadness, disheartenedness. At the time I learned the program, my husband asked Ms Ân and about ten more young Friends who could work with the computer to gather at our house for us to explain how to work with the program. Now it would be very easy to teach the Friends because I had gone through it and if they got stuck, they could just call me. Thinking this was the work of God, we had to be pioneers in the hard study, and now was the time for sharing our experience, and sharing the work with Friends too, in order that the Hymn Rewriting would soon be finished. My husband divided the number of hymns into many parts. I took a half of the amount, and the rest were given to the Friends. We were all happy with the work now and all cooperating together.
Did you know what happened next? No one sent back to me any hymns--not even Ms Ân, the new worker who had received this project from Darrel. No one asked or called for help...all kept silent...A scary silence. For me, from that time I knew I had to work alone with the project!!! It was up to me. This sad picture made me feel so tired!!!
I had not mentioned anything to Uncle Châu about this music program from the beginning, because that was the time he traveled for visiting some countries. I had announced for him how we started to learn and to rewrite hymns by computer. (At that time I still thought Uncle Châu still had the responsibility for all things in VN). Uncle Châu wanted to translate more English hymns into Vietnamese. He encouraged Friends to translate all the rest hymns which we still did not have in Vietnamese hymn book.
Responding to him, there were very few hymns were translated. So he had to do it all by himself. When returning to VN, Uncle Châu used all his time for translating as much as possible. Not easy to translate a hymn into Vietnamese, because our language has many accents. So it took much time for him.
Then it came time to put the music and lyrics together. Of course, it was not easy to fit the lyrics as we wanted, because no hymn is just like the other; some too long, or too many words. Uncle Châu often let me know the number of the hymn, for I recorded the notes of the music first, then he gave me the lyrics to put in.
One time he had worked until midnight, but he couldn’t finish the hymn 270. There was one last lyrics still left. He said, “You may translate the 4th lyric in this hymn, I want to take a rest”. It took a few hours for me to translate only one lyric, and luckily Uncle Châu accepted my translation. That has been my biggest work for translation of hymns till now, the 4th lyrics in hymn 270.
I thought it took about 3 years, but he couldn’t translate all, even though Uncle Châu had many experiences in translating hymns. He used to be an English teacher and a musician too. For this was the temporary hymn book, so we had to stop for printing.
There were many hymns in our Vietnamese hymn book had been put out which we used very often. We didn’t want to abandon them, so we gathered all of them and put them at the end of the new hymn book.
It was very complicated to put hymns in order to print. All my family had worked with it day and night, including my Father. We had to arrange them according to the new order, as in English hymn book (the order of the old VN hymn book was different from the one in English hymn book).
Then when everything was fit, no printing company would agreed to print it for us, because we didn’t have a license from the Religion Committee of the VN government!!! So we had them photocopied and assembled into books. Thịnh (brother of two sister workers) enthusiastically participated this work for us.
The VN Friends and Workers were taught that all the hymns were written by Workers and Friends. One time, Mr Vũ Trung Hiền (Uncle Châu’s brother) reminded me that there were many Protestant hymns that were stolen by 2x2s, such as Hymn number 1. From the teaching of 2x2 Workers, many Friends here in VN also believe this is God’s only true way, the way is from the beginning and that it is the only way in which people can enter the Kingdom of God. Uncle Chau visits Family in California
This afternoon (March 26, 2014) my daughter and I went to the airport to see Uncle Châu off to the United States. He will be visiting his family for three months after 47 years of continuous labor. During these three months Uncle Châu won’t preach and will only attend the Fellowship Meetings. After Duyên Thơ, his niece, let his family know the whole truth about what was happening to him throughout the past four years, all his brothers and sisters became angry and wanted him to return to them and live the rest of his life in the affectional arms of the family members. His eldest brother (Uncle Vũ Đức Nghiêm is a well-known musician in VN), who has done his best to enable Uncle Châu to go to the States. And he completed this longing in a short moment.
Because he feared the Overseers, he was afraid to contact us and tried to shun us to please them. But we know for sure that he still love us in his heart. Recently, he returned to our house to get his papers and clothes for his journey. During our conversation, I noticed his eyes being very dim (nearly blind), and his ears being hard of hearing. According to what uncle Chau has told me, his eyes will become worse and worse by the time. He went to eye hospital many times in VN and Singapore, they all said, "They cannot heal."
We also desire after three months staying with his family, that he will continue to stay with his family there in accordance with the desire of his brothers and sisters. Otherwise, if he returns to Vietnam, he can ask to retire to stay with us or with any other Friends, to use the rest of his life for visiting and feeding God’s people. I find that is more useful than being tied to the rules of 2x2 system. The day before Uncle Chau left for the States, I received an email from Uncle Graham Thompson from New Zealand. We have the same ideas in the letter for the present time, and I forward that letter to uncle Châu to see. That is our desire. We do not know his choice. Although we always pray for him to choose the way which pleases God, and does not take part or cover up the wrong things, the same as many ex-workers have chosen.
Uncle Châu has 10 brothers and sisters. The oldest brother passed away two years ago. One of his brothers lives in France, and Uncle Châu was the only one who remained in VN. All the other seven family members are living in USA. His youngest sister (Ms Bạch Cúc) and youngest brother (Mr Hiền) will meet him at the airport. Uncle Châu said that he will meet about 100 members in his parents’ family. So this is very important gathering of his family, because they are all getting old.
XH: We have to say that thanks to Internet, thanks to TMB, now Dale Shultz, Lyle Schultz, and Darrel T. dare not belittle and treat badly Uncle Châu any more. We felt a different atmosphere when Uncle Châu returned to Vietnam. I hope they sincerely want to change their minds and attitude. In my opinion, one other thing they cannot change: "Day by day people know more of the truth about 2x2ism." This is the most important thing. We need to exalt the flag of our Lord, our faith in Jesus Christ, the way of worship which our Father pleases.
If the government allows Uncle Chau to remain in California where he can retire from the work due to his health, the workers will be able to save face over the way they have been treating Uncle Chau. Actually, this is the perfect solution for the Workers regarding Uncle Chau, and they are likely very pleased that Uncle Chau’s relatives want him to stay with them and have made these arrangements. It takes Uncle Chau off their hands, and out of the work--without them having to do the dirty work. Workers retiring with family who want them is usually considered a good solution for any worker whose health is failing. It happens frequently. When there is no family able to care for them, the retired workers often go to the rest homes Friends operate in America. Uncle Chau’s case brings to mind Wm. Irvine after he was put out of the work and decided to move to Jerusalem. The workers were pleased with his decision which solved their problem and they no longer had to deal with him.
benar: Perhaps you clicked on the Coronavirus thread...
Feb 27, 2020 1:03:20 GMT -5
wally: proboards can be a bit buggy...i still get virus warnings when clicking on thread links...
Feb 26, 2020 22:04:28 GMT -5
ant_rotten: Does anyone else constantly have a pop up saying “do you want to download index.html” when using TMB desktop version? This happens to me both on my iPhone and iPad..
Feb 26, 2020 19:56:33 GMT -5
wally: you haven't asked me a question or anything or did i miss one?
Feb 20, 2020 6:03:05 GMT -5
ant_rotten: What’s happening Wally? You’ve gone quite on me..
Feb 20, 2020 4:56:35 GMT -5
wally: its no mystery apostate ant_rotten i am quite vocal...
Feb 17, 2020 9:12:28 GMT -5
ant_rotten: I’m not surprised to find wally in the shoutbox
Feb 17, 2020 6:32:29 GMT -5
jetmech: Hello Dennis
Feb 15, 2020 13:39:39 GMT -5
kip: Looking for meetings in Maine.
Jan 25, 2020 10:03:22 GMT -5
snow: Great jetmech, you found it!
Jan 19, 2020 15:04:59 GMT -5
wally: welcome to the shoutbox
Jan 15, 2020 21:33:25 GMT -5
jetmech: Hey everyone … this is my first time here
Jan 15, 2020 14:01:06 GMT -5