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Post by Fred on Jul 10, 2006 4:31:55 GMT -5
Yes Burt, we do use the term convention.
However official correspondance uses the term Annual Gatherings.
FWIW
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Seabisquit unplugged
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Post by Seabisquit unplugged on Jul 10, 2006 9:37:30 GMT -5
Where in the Bible does it give an example of a "convention" in a home?
Aren't the BUILDINGS used for convention "BUILDINGS"? So what is there about a church building that is so wrong as opposed to a meeting building being so right?
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Post by happy on Jul 10, 2006 9:59:46 GMT -5
It seems that the church in Acts was more of a commune. They met together continually and it would have been convenient since they all lived there.
This thing of robes of the ministers/priests...that varies per denomination. I've seen the robes in Episcopal and Catholic churches. It is not universal. Most pastors of Baptist and nondenominational Christian churches wear their regular clothes. Labelling a large general label of "false" on preachers and churches is a common practice, and yet...have they been visited by the labelers?
Happy
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Post by bowhunter on Jul 11, 2006 16:42:25 GMT -5
It seems that the church in Acts was more of a commune. They met together continually and it would have been convenient since they all lived there. This thing of robes of the ministers/priests...that varies per denomination. I've seen the robes in Episcopal and Catholic churches. It is not universal. Most pastors of Baptist and nondenominational Christian churches wear their regular clothes. Labelling a large general label of "false" on preachers and churches is a common practice, and yet...have they been visited by the labelers? Happy I doubt that the labelers would dare set foot in an 'evil, filthy lucre, wolf in wool, false preacher's church'-God would without doubt strike them dead!!(the workers most certainly won't approve!!)
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Post by caithintheaether on Jul 12, 2006 1:52:19 GMT -5
I was at a funeral mass in a catholic church a few weeks ago and really appreciated the cool stone floor, the simple wooden benches, the plain white walls, the calm and soothing view from the large window - out into the treetops, green against the hot blue sky. It was so tasteful, understated and just - well, uplifting, I guess. So my vote is for buildings [And joy of joys there was pre-recorded music - a beautiful alto(?) soaring out and supporting the rather thin singing from the gathering. Memories of painful meeting-singing faded away ...] caith
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Post by Bert on Jul 12, 2006 6:22:10 GMT -5
yes Caith, artificial, pre-recorded singing from some disembodied speaker is far, far removed from the homely hymns sung by friends. Bert
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Post by jxr on Jul 12, 2006 9:35:53 GMT -5
yes Caith, artificial, pre-recorded singing from some disembodied speaker is far, far removed from the homely hymns sung by friends. Bert No, Bert, it isn't that far removed. It's normally only off by half a semitone.
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Post by Bert on Jul 12, 2006 9:47:41 GMT -5
jxr - some years ago I went to the funeral of a work friend. No song was sang - someone punched a button in the funeral parlor and we listened to pre-recording. It was so pathetic, we can't even sing at funerals anymore? And just as sad is how many funerals you go to and hear Frank Sinatra sing "I did it my way." Sung perfectly of course - who can fault old blue eyes? Bert
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Post by Rob O on Jul 12, 2006 9:49:36 GMT -5
Bert,
Was the funeral run in accordance with the wishes of the deceased or the closet living relatives? If so, what do you suppose gives you the right to criticise?
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Post by Bert on Jul 12, 2006 10:05:58 GMT -5
Don't know if I have a "right" to criticise. I am never sure of what the word "right" really means (ever heard anyone say that "he/she had the right to live."?) Here I am expressing the "right" of opinion. Bert
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Post by Rob O on Jul 12, 2006 10:13:15 GMT -5
Fair enough. I would agree you have the right of opinion.
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Post by selah on Jul 12, 2006 13:14:54 GMT -5
jxr - some years ago I went to the funeral of a work friend. No song was sang - someone punched a button in the funeral parlor and we listened to pre-recording. It was so pathetic, we can't even sing at funerals anymore? And just as sad is how many funerals you go to and hear Frank Sinatra sing "I did it my way." Sung perfectly of course - who can fault old blue eyes? Bert Surely, Bert, you know that this is not the usual for funerals outside the f&w, or are you thinking that it is? Blessings, Linda
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Post by ClayRandall on Jul 13, 2006 9:34:42 GMT -5
To dea. When you go to a conventional church such as Anglican, Methodist or Catholic, you enter a building design to give the impression of God's presence. The church spires thrust upward to heaven; its stained glass windows invoke images of heavenly things; it choirs and organs reverberate with the sound of heaven and the gold and white garbs of its ministers or priests speak of holiness. It is imitation, mere symbols of the divine. Uh.....so are your "emblems" of Wonder Bread and grape juice symbols of the divine. This is what I dislike so much about 2x2s - their inconsistency. It's okay to have symbols of the divine in one case but not another. They claim church buildings are unbiblical but they build huge convention grounds. They also use "man-made" funeral homes for 2x2 funerals. Those people who met in humble homes in the New Testament had all the above things in their spirit. This is why the authors of those books rejected "carnal" and "worldly service(s)." Simply false. Where, in Scripture, is a church building "rejected" by the writers of the books of the New Testament?
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Post by Rob O on Jul 13, 2006 9:44:30 GMT -5
Tsk tsk, Clay. Don't you know that was one of the things Jesus "hid" from the crowds and is revealed by the H.S. to those who love the "true way"? BTW, if Pruebert decides to run with this "argument" I get to take credit! ;D
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Post by ClayRandall on Jul 13, 2006 10:24:08 GMT -5
Tsk tsk, Clay. Don't you know that was one of the things Jesus "hid" from the crowds and is revealed by the H.S. to those who love the "true way"? BTW, if Pruebert decides to run with this "argument" I get to take credit! ;D *LOL* Don't hold your breath, even though he/she promised to read your article on the subject in which you thoroughly destroy the argument... :-)
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jumper
New Member
ultimate freedom
Posts: 27
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Post by jumper on Jul 13, 2006 10:35:53 GMT -5
To "a believer" Off the top of my head (I get annoyed at all the cut and pasting that goes on here!) it mentions home service in the Acts and in the letters. Was it Pricila and Aquila who had the church in their home, for example? Yes, some did meet in the synagogue. These were the so-called Jewish Christians. After the destruction of Israel and the Jewish persecution of Christians, these people no longer met in synagogues. Conventions were common not only in the Old Testament, but apparently in the New as well. I suppose Special Meetings are a form of convention, ie a one day convention. Bert the home church is one of the things the 2x2s get right. it keeps overhead down and encourages participation from all of the members.. which is really what fellowship and worshippnig is about.
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Post by ClayRandall on Jul 13, 2006 11:10:50 GMT -5
the home church is one of the things the 2x2s get right. it keeps overhead down Are we talking about a church or a business? Once a congregation gets larger than 10-15 it becomes less feasible for members to meet in a private home. This is a fact acknowledged at least at some subconcious level when 2x2s rent out schools, libraries, or other public buildings for larger gatherings. and encourages participation from all of the members.. which is really what fellowship and worshippnig is about. There is more to participation than being expected to compose some kind of 5-10 minute testimony every Sunday/Wednesday.
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Post by Terry on Jul 13, 2006 20:19:24 GMT -5
church building are for a static ministry what we have allows for a ministry that goes to the people like Jesus did, not for the people to go to the ministry The workers have "gospel meetings" and have the friends invite others to attend. A church has a revival and has their members invite others and publize it with signs and ads. How is one static and other "going to the people" Churches send missionaries around the world to help the less fortunate and then witness to them. The workers wait until it's safe and then go and disparage the work of the missionaries as self seving. My mother once said that nuns do a lot of good work (a stunning admission on her part)--but they get their reward on earth. The workers get no recognition so they get theirs in heaven and went ballistic when I questioned why the workers had their own table at convention--it was because they earned it!!!
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Post by Bert on Jul 13, 2006 22:43:13 GMT -5
Clay. Jesus gave us two symbols only - baptism and the eucharist, as you call it. All other symbols were done away with after the crucifiction. An example of something being done away with was the veil of the temple, torn top to bottom - the Old Testament specified clearly how this was to be made. Now it was torn by God, and the temple was removed from the Jewish nation. What made that little home meeting in Acts special was when the spirit entered and sat upon its members. No spiritual props necessary, and no-one to mediate between God and man save Christ Jesus. Other symbols done away explicitly are mentioned often in Romans and Hebrews (washing of cups and pots etc.) Most are implicitly pointed to throughout the New Testament by virtue of how those people served God (ie no mention of Jesus et al in priestly garb.) A convention ground is necessary - we cannot meet in the air. A funeral parlor is a good place to have a funeral (!) We don't object to them, anymore than we object to school buildings or supermarket buildings. Bert
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Post by Laughing on Jul 13, 2006 23:18:58 GMT -5
"My mother once said that nuns do a lot of good work (a stunning admission on her part)--but they get their reward on earth. The workers get no recognition so they get theirs in heaven and went ballistic when I questioned why the workers had their own table at convention--it was because they earned it!!!"Yep... I can see it now... posted right here on this board... after the workers have labored for a couple of weeks getting the convention grounds cleaned up and in order for 5 days of visitors. "they don't have a workers table anymore in the dining room... they sit with the people.. but they only sit with certain people, I'm not good enough for them or something."
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Post by Contented on Jul 13, 2006 23:43:56 GMT -5
Where I live, convention grounds are not built. They are owned by members, who give other members the use of it for a few days. And the poster said that conventions should be held in homes as well - well, you need to be practical. Hundreds of people attend. Secondly: regarding singing. What is better then listening and joining in with singing songs to the Lord? Who cares if it is a little flat, or a little sharp, or slow or whatever. As long as there is singing. But our singing is beautiful. We have four parts going, and it just sounds absolutely beautiful. Granted, there is the odd person who can't sing, and feels the need to sing loudly , but agin, at least they are singing. As to meetings in homes, yes, it is because of biblical teachings, but no one ever said that workers HATE churches. But why would you want to go to another church service, in another place, regardless of what religion you are, if you are content with the beliefs that you hold??? Maybe that is why professing people do not go to other churches. Bread and wine - that is completely different from church buildings, to the person who said they were "sick of the inconsitancy of the two by two's. They condem church buildings, but the emblems are fine." (Or something to that effect.) If you can't understand the difference between the two, then that's your problem, not mine.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 14, 2006 0:15:30 GMT -5
But why would you want to go to another church service, in another place, regardless of what religion you are, if you are content with the beliefs that you hold??? Maybe that is why professing people do not go to other churches. There it is in a nutshell... 2x2s base their belief/faith in their church.
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Post by Rob O on Jul 14, 2006 0:40:07 GMT -5
An example of something being done away with was the veil of the temple, torn top to bottom - the Old Testament specified clearly how this was to be made. Now it was torn by God, and the temple was removed from the Jewish nation. This is just biblically unsupportable. The tearing of the veil is itself symbolic but it did not entail or necessitate the removal of the temple itself. You're conflating two trivially related situations. As to meetings in homes, yes, it is because of biblical teachings, but no one ever said that workers HATE churches. But this is just the problem. No proponent of the "home meetings only" view has ever put forward biblical support for the idea. To assume the truth of the conclusion and then import that conclusion to the argument only shows bad logic, not a biblical teaching.
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Claire
Senior Member
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Post by Claire on Jul 14, 2006 0:53:40 GMT -5
"yes Caith, artificial, pre-recorded singing from some disembodied speaker is far, far removed from the homely hymns sung by friends. Bert"
Bert - you weren't there. It wasn't your relative. So please keep your nasty little adjectives to yourself. You don't need to spend your life trying to spoil things for others. fwiw I don't think he would have cared what music was played as he wasn't musical, but it made a special moment for those of us who are.
caith
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Post by a believer on Jul 14, 2006 1:51:08 GMT -5
It was symbolic in that the veil was torn so that all could enter into the holiest of holy, where as before only the high priest could enter. Please tell me where you think it says that as I can see no reference to this?
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Post by prue on Jul 14, 2006 6:26:41 GMT -5
hi clay from prue - you wrote about what happens when a congregation get too big we must rent out schools and such - i am not sure about that - if we have a church too large for one home we use two homes remember the thousands who were obedient to the faith in the book of acts - they had plenty of open homes kind regard prue
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Post by prue on Jul 14, 2006 6:32:19 GMT -5
caithleen - i am sorry if you were offended by bert - he didn't mean any nasty adjectives, and he doesnt want to spoil things for others
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Claire
Senior Member
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Post by Claire on Jul 14, 2006 7:36:16 GMT -5
it's very sweet of you to reply, Pruebert, but as my post was directed at 'Bert', and you refer to him in the 3rd person, I don't think you can speak on his behalf.
c
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