pauper
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by pauper on Jul 9, 2006 14:50:01 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it?
How does this come about?
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Post by a believer on Jul 9, 2006 15:43:09 GMT -5
We were told they were wealthy because they did not smoke, drink or gamble like outsiders. Now i realize how ridicules this was as most people do not do this. I think Christians as a whole appear to be more well off than non Christians. Going to church appears to be a class thing in general. Got o any church car park, the cars are generally more expensive models
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Post by Katty on Jul 9, 2006 15:49:21 GMT -5
I know that some people get given money by the workers. Seems they get too much sometimes.
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Post by there on Jul 9, 2006 15:50:27 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? there are a lot more low income earners in this fellowship than high income earners. sure there are places which have more affluence than others in this world. perhaps you live in a place where this is so?
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Post by nitro on Jul 9, 2006 15:54:10 GMT -5
Lord Have Mercy On The Working Man ------Travis Tritt
(Kostas)
All around I hear the sound of money But I ain't got a nickel to my name And everywhere I look I see temptation She stands on every corner and calls my name
Won't you tell me if you can Cause life's so hard to understand Why's the rich man busy dancing While the poor man pays the band Oh they're billing me for killing me Lord have mercy on the working man
Uncle Sam's got his hands in my pockets And he helps himself each time he needs a dime Them politicians treat me like a mushroom Cause they feed me bull and keep me in the blind
Repeat Chorus
Hey St. Peter look down for a minute And see this little man about to drown There's quicksand all around and man I'm in it Please help me up Lord cause I'm going down
Won't you tell me if you can Cause life's so hard to understand Why's the rich man busy dancing While the poor man pays the band Oh they're billing me for killing me Lord have mercy on the working man
Won't you tell me if you can Cause life's so hard to understand Why's the fat man busy dancing While the thin man pays the band Oh they're billing me for killing me Lord have mercy on the working man
Please Lord have mercy on the working man Please Lord have mercy on the working man
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 9, 2006 16:18:44 GMT -5
I know way more broke folks than wealthy in this way... maybe it depends on the area.
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Post by to wopen eyes on Jul 9, 2006 16:29:44 GMT -5
what part of the country are you from open eyes?
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Post by GuestS on Jul 9, 2006 16:36:29 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? Because they are taught in this "way" that God doesn't desire them to tithe! They would have a hard time parting with 10%! Some also have acquired their money in less than honest ways and this "way" holds no one accountable (including the workers!).
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Post by thats so on Jul 9, 2006 17:55:42 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? Because they are taught in this "way" that God doesn't desire them to tithe! They would have a hard time parting with 10%! Some also have acquired their money in less than honest ways and this "way" holds no one accountable (including the workers!). I am sorry but I would have to agree with you. The 2 most wealthiest 2x2s I know and who are openly known to support the workers, paying rent for them to live in 3rd world countries etc. have gained their money through ripping other people off. They have bad names by outsiders in the area they live because of their shoddy business dealings
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Post by thats so on Jul 9, 2006 17:59:14 GMT -5
..................to add to that.... the 2 families went to the same Sunday morning meeting and had to be separated at one stage as they were ripping each other off.
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 9, 2006 18:54:37 GMT -5
Because they are taught in this "way" that God doesn't desire them to tithe! They would have a hard time parting with 10%! Some also have acquired their money in less than honest ways and this "way" holds no one accountable (including the workers!). I am sorry but I would have to agree with you. The 2 most wealthiest 2x2s I know and who are openly known to support the workers, paying rent for them to live in 3rd world countries etc. have gained their money through ripping other people off. They have bad names by outsiders in the area they live because of their shoddy business dealings You and the next poster must live in Southern California!!! LOL!! Edy
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Post by thats so on Jul 9, 2006 18:58:35 GMT -5
No, I do not live in the USA, or Canada I live many miles across the ocean. It must happen in more than one part of the world.
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Jul 9, 2006 19:13:41 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? "I Don't Know Why"
www.OldieLyrics.com
(Shawn Colvin)
I don't know why the sky is so blue I don't know why I'm so in love with you If there were no music, I would not get through I don't know why I know these things, but I do
I don't know why somewhere dreams come true I don't know where we'll find a place for you Every time you look that way I lay down my life for you I don't know why I know these things, but I do
I don't know why sun can make you cry I don't know how I'm bound to get you back, but I'll try They don't mean to cause you pain, they're just afraid of loving you I don't know why I know these things, but I do
I don't know why the trees grow so tall I don't know why I don't know anything at all If there were no music, I would not get through I don't know why I know these things, but I do, I do I don't know why I know these things, but I do
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Post by jxr on Jul 10, 2006 6:23:08 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? What you are observing is that the 2x2 demographic is a snapshot of that particular country's demographic. After all, what other social networks are there which aren't developed on the basis of socio-economic status? I can't think of too many other social networks where the wealthy and poor rub shoulders.
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Post by Wealth is relative on Jul 10, 2006 6:34:18 GMT -5
Why are there so many wealthy people in the 2x2s? Why are wealthy people attracted to it? How does this come about? I think that all in all there are few wealthy people attracted to the Truth. What constitutes a wealthy person? Assets of $100 million? A comfortable annual household income of $150K?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2006 10:31:59 GMT -5
One of the basic points of 2x2 doctrine is that "we are better folks than anyone else in the world" -- "all other people in the world are less popular before God than we are"
Natural wealth sometimes gives people the impression that they are smarter -- or more capable in management than poorer people.. This kind of thinking appeals to the same kind of folks.
Is this a plausible explanation?
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Post by lloyds on Jul 10, 2006 10:49:32 GMT -5
That was one of the reasons saints were accepted was to provide land and support and a place for the 2x2s to preach and have there mtgs why? cause they did bad mouth everyone else so badly initially that the faith mission for one thing cut funding off to William Irvine and others wouldn't allow 2x2s to preach from there churches cause they bad mouth the very same religion
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lisa
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by lisa on Jul 10, 2006 10:52:15 GMT -5
I'm surprised at the comments above
""we are better folks than anyone else in the world" -- "all other people in the world are less popular before God than we are""
I would certainly not call it a "basic point of doctrine". I agree that unfortunatley some have this opinion, but I see them as a minority.
And I think I speak from more years of experience than anyone else here.
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Post by lloyds on Jul 10, 2006 10:57:13 GMT -5
To Edgar I hear you Edgar the problem I think is many do not realize what they are actually part of because time and the 2x2 mindset never permit things to get checked out. This is why many folks are surprised at your comments the reasons is because they feel in there heart that they are not actually a part of the group your describing
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Post by dumb on Jul 10, 2006 11:03:07 GMT -5
I know that some people get given money by the workers. Seems they get too much sometimes. whether this is true or not aside, this is a very dumb statement and premise. the question is why 2x2s as a whole are wealthy. the answer is here is that some 2x2s get money from the workers and that makes them wealthy (implied). but if the workers get their money from 2x2s, then how can that make 2x2s wealthy? dumb logic
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Post by cornsilk on Jul 10, 2006 11:13:01 GMT -5
Well, this is an interesting thread........ And to add my OWN two cents worth--- In my area of the world is a church (non 2X2) where the preacher admonishes his congregation to drive new cars and build new houses to show how prosperous God has made them. His congregation recently got together to purchase the preacher a shiny new Harley. I'm not sure that wealth is in God's storehouse. As Paul wrote about his life, he mentioned that he had learned to be content in whatever condition he found himself in, meaning, that essential happiness isn't contained in material wealth, but in being in the center of the will of God. Interestingly enough, the old addage holds true: You can't take it with you. I'm confident that the demographics of the religion would show pretty close to the demographics of the country each church is in, with both ends of the spectrum covered, be it wealth or poverty.
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Post by lloydswanson on Jul 10, 2006 11:18:17 GMT -5
Yes Edgar there ane many people who feel that the group you describe is not the group they are a part of.
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Post by Observation on Jul 10, 2006 11:33:22 GMT -5
An observation and thought.
The next year convention was held on Fred Klaty's farm in Carsonville, where it has been continuously since 1913
Humm 1913 2006-1913= 93 years.
In all those years there has been many a change and enhancement to that convention. I was wondering who gets the financial benefit of those enhancements. The owner or the Church. It can't be the Church because it is not registered. Then we can only conclude that for 93 years one family has gotten the financial benefit of monies given by the body church. Is this not the transfer of wealth from the many to a select.
I believe that the church body should have control of the Klaty farm (convention) grounds since the church body has invested much in it. If I was a Kalty I would not want to rock the boat either. Wow 93 years is a long time for one family to have control over a convention ground.
Do you get the picture.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2006 11:38:05 GMT -5
I'm surprised at the comments above ""we are better folks than anyone else in the world" -- "all other people in the world are less popular before God than we are"" I would certainly not call it a "basic point of doctrine". I agree that unfortunatley some have this opinion, but I see them as a minority. And I think I speak from more years of experience than anyone else here. Lisa, won´t you agree that a basic point of 2x2 doctrine is that "no one else than proffessing people" are right with God? That if you worship in a church building and find Christian inspiration in listening to paid preachers (who are not on the workers list) you are "outside the will of God"!! Will you agree that 2x2 teaching is that any Christian people who come to meetings and proffess can only count on salvation from the time they "proffess"! or "When the gospel came" is regarded as the period when people first become members of the 2x2 group? Edgar Interesting to hear about your claim to ' more years of 2x2 experience than anyone else on this list". I have noticed that this list definately does represent an enormous amount of 2x2 experience!!
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lisa
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by lisa on Jul 10, 2006 12:57:57 GMT -5
Edgar To use a phrase of the day "you have changed the goalposts".
Your original statement was
"One of the basic points of 2x2 doctrine is that "we are better folks than anyone else in the world" -- "all other people in the world are less popular before God than we are"
Its that statement I challenged.
You replied by asking me if I agree with several quite different statements.
However, lets answer those in the interest of good discussion.
1. Basic point of basic point of 2x2 doctrine is that "no one else than proffessing people" are right with God? That if you worship in a church building and find Christian inspiration in listening to paid preachers (who are not on the workers list) you are "outside the will of God"!!
I do not personally subscribe to this viewpoint, and while I acknowledge that many do, I would get that about half do not. I don't think a doctrinal point that scrapes half support could be described using the word "basic".
2. Will you agree that 2x2 teaching is that any Christian people who come to meetings and proffess can only count on salvation from the time they "proffess"! or "When the gospel came" is regarded as the period when people first become members of the 2x2 group?
This is really a corollary of the first. Same comment applies.
"More years of experience". I didn't claim more your of experience than a number of people collectively have but did say "anyone". In my book that means any one person. I'm quite prepared to be challenged on that, and in fact to hand this dubious accolade (if in fact it is one) to any claimants who professed longer than 67 years. (1939) By the way, I'm not sure that it counts for much anyway (in hindsight). 67 years doesn't mean wide exposure, just lengthy.
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Post by if you say so on Jul 10, 2006 13:23:10 GMT -5
I'm surprised at the comments above ""we are better folks than anyone else in the world" -- "all other people in the world are less popular before God than we are"" I would certainly not call it a "basic point of doctrine". I agree that unfortunatley some have this opinion, but I see them as a minority. And I think I speak from more years of experience than anyone else here. First of all, I think the whole mentality of "we are better" is MOST DEFINITELY a basic point of doctrine, particularly the idea that "we are more popular with God". As for as you speaking from more years of experience than anyone else here, I highly doubt that, there are many many people on this board who have varying lifetimes of experience with the 2x2s -20,30,40,50,60,70,80 years - now don't get me wrong, I don't know your actual story and actual history, but I'm just saying that I don't think it's fair to assume you know more than anybody else. While I'm at it, my personal take on the wealth of the 2x2s is this: the workers like people who support them and will cater to them so they reward that support and catering nature by providing them with funds from their various "spoils" (convention envelopes, handshake money, estates, personally held money - like Willis Propps oil revenues - etc.) It is odd to notice, in my particular area, how the wealthiest families are also the ones who are the most "in" with the workers - they fit the mold the best, they have the workers staying at their house all the time, they are always providing vehicles for the workers, and so on and so forth. There is a particular family I know who has an actualy worker suite in their house and a couple years ago purchased a van for the workers to drive. Some might say "Oh welll, they probably have other guests stay in that suite and they probably use the van themselves" but those are both falseities as they have other rooms in their very large and expensive house for other non-worker guests, and they have no children so the van is not needed by they themselves. The other odd thing (well, perhaps it's not so odd really, but it does raise some eyebrows) is that this fellow came from a rather poor family and runs a landscaping business which I'm sure doesn't make him bad money, but it is certainly not lucrative enough to have got him his pricey acres of land near town, his huge fancy house, many vehicles, expensive antiques, multiple trips a year, etc. Around here we call his place "worker central" and I guess that isn't too far off the mark!
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Post by Miss J on Jul 10, 2006 13:39:14 GMT -5
Okay so you were professing for 67 years... big deal! One person who has been professing for that long cannot insinuate to a whole board of folks who have all "put in their time", and note that I say "insinuate" not "tell" because you did not overly say that you knew more than us all, but in your first post you definitely did insinuate that you knew more than us, eventhough you later said that you were only saying that you had more years of experience than any one person. We get the attitude loud and clear here, Lisa, and I for one really don't care for it. I also don't care for you accusing Edgar of "changing the goal posts" (does it make you feel cool to use "a phrase of the day" makes you sound like a retard if you ask me) In any case, I just want to say for all of us that we have all been through it and we have all seen it, each experience has been different but nobody can discount what anyone else has gone through or think that they are superior or act like they are just to try and prove a point that they cannot prove because it's bullsh-! Maybe not all of the 2x2s believe that anyone outside their way is going to hell but the vast majority of them do, it IS one of their basic points of doctine (THE basic one to me), and of those who do not believe it some so wish in their hearts and think that it would be good for outsiders to become part of their way, and those who don't agree at all are just waiting to "drop off the vine" like I did! You say you are quite prepared to be challenged, well lady, I think you will find on this board that there are lots of people who are more than up to it and who will teach you not to be so arrogant or to take the 2x2s so personally as though an insult to them is one to you as well. Best wishes, Miss J
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Jul 10, 2006 14:24:00 GMT -5
SOME of the friends are wealthy, some not so. SOME Catholics are wealthy, some not so. Anyway, wealthy Christian people are supposed to carry a heavier burden for the Lord in that their wealth is supposed to be used to care for the less fortunate, first of all among the brethren.. This is an area that I have a problem with. I personally know of some wealthy friends who decide to take expensive cruises seemingly without considering whether this money could be used to help the poor.
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