|
Post by sacerdotal on Jun 30, 2013 17:11:07 GMT -5
Since the BTS site is a discussion board, it is ideal for hosting a question and answer session like some churches do. Scott or Clearday, do you think that you could ask Dale Schultz and or Barry Barkley to participate in such a forum?
Perhaps a topic could be chosen each week, like, "What is currently being done to educate the workers on CSA guidelines?" Or, "What education is being done to stop the hurtful practice of shunning against the victims that have come forward against a worker?"
Sure, the conversations might get heated- but so what- other denominations seem to be able to handle it.
At the very least, can you ask Barry to identify 3 or 4 workers to spend time on either the BTS board or the TMB to begin to deal with issues rather than let them sit from decade to decade?
Please send your requests via email and post the response here on the TMB.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 19:03:12 GMT -5
Good idea. The idea was tried here on a sub-board called "Worker Discussion Board". Workers were even guaranteed pleasantness and a modicum of respect. No worker ever came. When noels came, he went right to the main board and eventually flamed out. It's really too bad he did burn out because he may have led the way for more workers to get involved with discussions. Sure, he said some inflammatory things, but it would have been helpful if his experience had gone a little better for him and it would have been encouraging for others to get on board.
I think some unidentifed workers do post here occasionally but I doubt if there are any at a senior level who do anything more than read occasionally.
Still, you never know, a direct invitation to some top overseers might get some interest.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jul 1, 2013 0:18:26 GMT -5
Didn't Worker 83 participate on the Worker Discussion board briefly?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 8:19:13 GMT -5
Didn't Worker 83 participate on the Worker Discussion board briefly? Worker83 participated on the main board in 2008 only. The worker sub-board wasn't created until about 2010. I think she used a couple of names but I don't recall any active workers on that sub-board. It's possible that some worker has posted there but the board never did develop into what it was designed for. There are a couple of systemic factors which prevent workers from getting involved here. One is the territorial system in which they are expected to limit their activities to their fields, while this is a global site. The other is the companion system. Any worker would have to get the approval of his/her companion to get involved in a time consuming activity like this. Most companions would be against speaking on a board like this in any case, while others wouldn't be happy with the amount of time it might take. So even if a worker wanted to participate, they would find it difficult to do so. On the other hand, there are a lot of workers who have a lot of time on their hands. Some are very busy in the cities where there are a lot of friends. However, some of the rural fields with few friends and no evangelism outreach in the community means that the workers spend a lot of time in bedrooms connected to wi-fi. It wouldn't be difficult to schedule an hour or so per day to discuss things with people.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jul 1, 2013 11:41:58 GMT -5
Thanks, CD.
I think this: wouldn't be happy with the amount of time it might take would be a major consideration for any worker. We live in a VERY rural area with few friends per sq. mile but our workers aren't spending a lot of time in bedrooms with laptops, afaik. They do travel a lot since this field is huge and friends are grouped in clusters quite separated.
|
|
|
Post by ts on Jul 1, 2013 15:44:56 GMT -5
Thanks, CD. I think this: wouldn't be happy with the amount of time it might take would be a major consideration for any worker. We live in a VERY rural area with few friends per sq. mile but our workers aren't spending a lot of time in bedrooms with laptops, afaik. They do travel a lot since this field is huge and friends are grouped in clusters quite separated. If they had not neglected the issues over the decades, perhaps the friends would be more grouped even in the rural areas. Meanwhile, friends are dropping off and now considered exes and not worth the while of the Workers. So the workers are spending more time with the spread out friends with fewer workers instead of approaching the "bitter" exes with meekness and humility and understanding why Worker abuse is so offensive to them.
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Jul 1, 2013 17:47:02 GMT -5
Why aren't they out evangelising the world around them. After all they believe they are living their life just like Jesus lived his yet they do not go out to the world like Jesus did. One of the things I got from Grey's book was the workers were once evangelistic but no longer are.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 1, 2013 18:29:11 GMT -5
Why aren't they out evangelising the world around them. After all they believe they are living their life just like Jesus lived his yet they do not go out to the world like Jesus did. One of the things I got from Grey's book was the workers were once evangelistic but no longer are. In the late 60's in our area they were still going door to door like the JW's. That ended fairly soon after that. I remember going out a couple of times with my mom and the workers and I really didn't like it.
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 2, 2013 10:22:15 GMT -5
Why aren't they out evangelising the world around them. After all they believe they are living their life just like Jesus lived his yet they do not go out to the world like Jesus did. One of the things I got from Grey's book was the workers were once evangelistic but no longer are. In the late 60's in our area they were still going door to door like the JW's. That ended fairly soon after that. I remember going out a couple of times with my mom and the workers and I really didn't like it. I know one sister worker who did the door-to-door thing in the early 1990s. A variety of the friends thought it was a great idea, but her companion hated it (honestly, she called this sister worker a devil when she was speaking). This companion had the support of the other workers, particularly the overseer's right-hand man. As a result, the sister worker was shipped overseas the next year. The funny part of this story is that the sister worker had more people profess in her gospel meeting than all the workers had profess in their areas AND at convention. Of course, the newbies drifted away after the rest of the workers jumped on the sister worker. So, the formula does work, but the workers no like.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jul 2, 2013 15:32:25 GMT -5
I know one sister worker who did the door-to-door thing in the early 1990s. A variety of the friends thought it was a great idea, but her companion hated it (honestly, she called this sister worker a devil when she was speaking). This companion had the support of the other workers, particularly the overseer's right-hand man. As a result, the sister worker was shipped overseas the next year. The funny part of this story is that the sister worker had more people profess in her gospel meeting than all the workers had profess in their areas AND at convention. Of course, the newbies drifted away after the rest of the workers jumped on the sister worker. So, the formula does work, but the workers no like. Can you please clarify which sister is which? Maybe call them S1 or S2.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 2, 2013 18:34:44 GMT -5
In the late 60's in our area they were still going door to door like the JW's. That ended fairly soon after that. I remember going out a couple of times with my mom and the workers and I really didn't like it. I know one sister worker who did the door-to-door thing in the early 1990s. A variety of the friends thought it was a great idea, but her companion hated it (honestly, she called this sister worker a devil when she was speaking). This companion had the support of the other workers, particularly the overseer's right-hand man. As a result, the sister worker was shipped overseas the next year. The funny part of this story is that the sister worker had more people profess in her gospel meeting than all the workers had profess in their areas AND at convention. Of course, the newbies drifted away after the rest of the workers jumped on the sister worker. So, the formula does work, but the workers no like. I would imagine it would work better than no effort at all. From what I read here, there is zero effort in trying to talk to strangers. They expect the friends to do their work in that regard. Don't know how they expect to grow the church that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 19:07:11 GMT -5
I know one sister worker who did the door-to-door thing in the early 1990s. A variety of the friends thought it was a great idea, but her companion hated it (honestly, she called this sister worker a devil when she was speaking). This companion had the support of the other workers, particularly the overseer's right-hand man. As a result, the sister worker was shipped overseas the next year. The funny part of this story is that the sister worker had more people profess in her gospel meeting than all the workers had profess in their areas AND at convention. Of course, the newbies drifted away after the rest of the workers jumped on the sister worker. So, the formula does work, but the workers no like. I would imagine it would work better than no effort at all. From what I read here, there is zero effort in trying to talk to strangers. They expect the friends to do their work in that regard. Don't know how they expect to grow the church that way. It works, the JW's know it. It is a numbers game just like telephone soliciting. Solicitors know that if they call a certain number of homes, they will get a certain number of sales. The ratio of calls to sales is very high though. JW's probably have even less success than the telephone solicitors, but the success is there and it shows in their rising numbers, even if it is widely considered an undesirable church. Our local group has grown steadily over the years and it can only be due to the door knocking by well trained knockers. The workers set themselves up for failure. "Oh I (or someone else) tried that once and it didn't work". Well, there are reasons why it didn't seem to work and there are ways to make it work. It's a matter of rolling up their sleeves and saying "what do we have to do to make this work?" Most workers today seem to expect converts to fall from the sky on them, and even then, they are pretty picky about who they let in after they fell from the sky.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 2, 2013 21:56:08 GMT -5
I would imagine it would work better than no effort at all. From what I read here, there is zero effort in trying to talk to strangers. They expect the friends to do their work in that regard. Don't know how they expect to grow the church that way. It works, the JW's know it. It is a numbers game just like telephone soliciting. Solicitors know that if they call a certain number of homes, they will get a certain number of sales. The ratio of calls to sales is very high though. JW's probably have even less success than the telephone solicitors, but the success is there and it shows in their rising numbers, even if it is widely considered an undesirable church. Our local group has grown steadily over the years and it can only be due to the door knocking by well trained knockers. The workers set themselves up for failure. "Oh I (or someone else) tried that once and it didn't work". Well, there are reasons why it didn't seem to work and there are ways to make it work. It's a matter of rolling up their sleeves and saying "what do we have to do to make this work?" Most workers today seem to expect converts to fall from the sky on them, and even then, they are pretty picky about who they let in after they fell from the sky. Yes the JW's are good at what they do. If they can find a young teen in the household they latch on. My daughter answered the door once and talked to them for a little while and they gave her something to read and said they'd be back to talk about it. Well she was around 17 at the time and never was around when they came to call again. It was about a year of telling them, no she's not here right now, before they gave up on her. She dated a lapsed JW guy for awhile and got to know the group of kids. They broke up and when he did marry he married a JW girl and went back into the church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 22:17:36 GMT -5
It works, the JW's know it. It is a numbers game just like telephone soliciting. Solicitors know that if they call a certain number of homes, they will get a certain number of sales. The ratio of calls to sales is very high though. JW's probably have even less success than the telephone solicitors, but the success is there and it shows in their rising numbers, even if it is widely considered an undesirable church. Our local group has grown steadily over the years and it can only be due to the door knocking by well trained knockers. The workers set themselves up for failure. "Oh I (or someone else) tried that once and it didn't work". Well, there are reasons why it didn't seem to work and there are ways to make it work. It's a matter of rolling up their sleeves and saying "what do we have to do to make this work?" Most workers today seem to expect converts to fall from the sky on them, and even then, they are pretty picky about who they let in after they fell from the sky. Yes the JW's are good at what they do. If they can find a young teen in the household they latch on. My daughter answered the door once and talked to them for a little while and they gave her something to read and said they'd be back to talk about it. Well she was around 17 at the time and never was around when they came to call again. It was about a year of telling them, no she's not here right now, before they gave up on her. She dated a lapsed JW guy for awhile and got to know the group of kids. They broke up and when he did marry he married a JW girl and went back into the church. Yes, they are well trained with both answers and to be able to handle rejection. They seem to employ a simple trick. They present people with obscure scripture, something most people admit they don't understand. They they give the revelation for it. It's pretty powerful because they disarm the target first, then arm them with their own stuff, bringing them together. One of my daughter's best friends is a JW boy (not dating). I know him fairly well and he is a super kid. His parents are nice but what I see is much the same restrictive life that many 2x2's have experienced. He does get a little leeway with things but he has a really tight leash on him. In fact, I think that if not for my daughter, his life would have been completely limited to the tight little JW world, just like many 2x2 kids from traditionalist families. It has been interesting to observe.
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Jul 2, 2013 23:13:57 GMT -5
2 or 3 years ago a professing man from another city came to our city and went door knocking. The workers did not like it. He would even pick up and take people who were interested to meeting and brought at least 3 people that I know of, to meetings from his efforts. They went for at least a year, asked questions but only got confusing vague answers from the workers and were left with the understanding that this has always existed, we have no beginning, etc etc. After attending a number of meetings they were able to look on the internet and find out about the group. The women of the 3 profeesed but left later when she realised what she got into. The workers would have more integrity and success if they were straight up and honest from the beginning. With the internet people are bound to find out about the group. Honesty is a good starting point. Being willing to answer people's questions is also important as one person experienced being hung up on by a worker when they tried to ask questions on the phone.
|
|
|
Post by holdmyhand on Jul 3, 2013 0:16:48 GMT -5
2 or 3 years ago a professing man from another city came to our city and went door knocking. The workers did not like it. He would even pick up and take people who were interested to meeting and brought at least 3 people that I know of, to meetings from his efforts. They went for at least a year, asked questions but only got confusing vague answers from the workers and were left with the understanding that this has always existed, we have no beginning, etc etc. After attending a number of meetings they were able to look on the internet and find out about the group. The women of the 3 profeesed but left later when she realised what she got into. The workers would have more integrity and success if they were straight up and honest from the beginning. With the internet people are bound to find out about the group. Honesty is a good starting point. Being willing to answer people's questions is also important as one person experienced being hung up on by a worker when they tried to ask questions on the phone. Willingness to answer questions is a big problem. In the past, invitation flyers had a contact phone number on the bottom but recently it has been removed "because they want people to come to the gospel meeting instead of asking questions over the phone" It is almost impossible for an outsider to be told anything except "we have no name and we meet in homes"
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 3, 2013 8:32:20 GMT -5
2 or 3 years ago a professing man from another city came to our city and went door knocking. The workers did not like it. He would even pick up and take people who were interested to meeting and brought at least 3 people that I know of, to meetings from his efforts. They went for at least a year, asked questions but only got confusing vague answers from the workers and were left with the understanding that this has always existed, we have no beginning, etc etc. After attending a number of meetings they were able to look on the internet and find out about the group. The women of the 3 profeesed but left later when she realised what she got into. The workers would have more integrity and success if they were straight up and honest from the beginning. With the internet people are bound to find out about the group. Honesty is a good starting point. Being willing to answer people's questions is also important as one person experienced being hung up on by a worker when they tried to ask questions on the phone. Willingness to answer questions is a big problem. In the past, invitation flyers had a contact phone number on the bottom but recently it has been removed "because they want people to come to the gospel meeting instead of asking questions over the phone" It is almost impossible for an outsider to be told anything except "we have no name and we meet in homes" The workers don't fear questions. . . they fear giving the answers. Hiding under a bed, a bushel, or not being a light on a hill is a troublesome sign. The internet has made the workers even more fearful and insecure.
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 3, 2013 11:20:49 GMT -5
I know one sister worker who did the door-to-door thing in the early 1990s. A variety of the friends thought it was a great idea, but her companion hated it (honestly, she called this sister worker a devil when she was speaking). This companion had the support of the other workers, particularly the overseer's right-hand man. As a result, the sister worker was shipped overseas the next year. The funny part of this story is that the sister worker had more people profess in her gospel meeting than all the workers had profess in their areas AND at convention. Of course, the newbies drifted away after the rest of the workers jumped on the sister worker. So, the formula does work, but the workers no like. Can you please clarify which sister is which? Maybe call them S1 or S2. sister worker in paragraphs 1 and 2 = S1 companion, she in paragraph 1 = S2
|
|