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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 30, 2013 12:35:08 GMT -5
While the victims of abuse had their stories and/or letters moved off of the Wings site, a few that wrote in LONG letters of support with their story and background were kept on the wingsfortruth.info site- at the Letters of Support link. Want to know what all 3 letters have in common? Yep- all letters were written by folks that profess and speak of being happy in the fellowship but who are against CSA. Hooray! So, that is the key to getting your story published on Wings- thank the admins for the site, tell them that you profess, and condemn CSA. (Seriously, is there any sane person in the world that doesn't condemn CSA?) To the admins: are the professing people the only ones that wrote in letters of support thanking you for your time? Are the former victims seemingly too busy or ungrateful for all of your hard work and not one has written in a letter of support? Does one have to be speak well of the fellowship to have a letter published? The first letter starts off with this statement: "I was raised in the fellowship and intend to remain." The second letter begins with this statement: "My heart goes out to anyone who has suffered from abuse, whether it happened to you personally or to someone you love. I am professing, we have meeting in our home, and I’m a psychiatric nurse." And finally, the third letter is titled: "Letter to the Friends – From a Friend" (Note to who the letter is addressed to- The Friends.) The letter begins: "I am a professing man currently residing in Texas." The letters are great- I don't have an issue with the letters. Again, the appearance is one of catering to the 2x2 system, rather than to the victims.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 30, 2013 12:46:18 GMT -5
Jean's letter used to be listed also, and it was more or less a thank you to WINGS for what they had done for her.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 30, 2013 13:13:33 GMT -5
Jean's letter used to be listed also, and it was more or less a thank you to WINGS for what they had done for her. I am shocked, shocked to learn that a non-professing person's letter was removed. It reminds me of that great scene in the movie Casablanca: Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds? Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! (a croupier hands Renault a pile of money) Croupier: Your winnings, sir. Captain Renault: (sotto voce) Oh, thank you very much. {aloud} Captain Renault: Everybody out at once! But, based on the small sampling of approved, published letters, Jean's letter doesn't meet all of the "keys" to be published on Wings:[x] Thank the admins for the site [ ] Indicate that you profess [x] Condemn CSA. (Seriously, is there any sane person in the world that doesn't condemn CSA?) Two out of three ain't bad, saith Meat Loaf, but not good enough for Wings.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 30, 2013 13:50:10 GMT -5
Here is Jean's Letter that used to be on WINGS in the Letters of Support section:
May 4, 2008
I am Jean. I wrote the story titled “Jean” located in the section called “Breaking the Silence” on WINGS. It was only when I was fighting cancer five years ago that I let my counselor know that I was molested by Ira from the time I was 8 to 15-16.
This is nothing that I would ever lie about. Why would I lie about it? What good would it do me? I wanted my Mother and Daddy to be proud of me and love me. I was terrified for years to say a word. I was blamed for the abuse and I have felt like a dirty dog. I was afraid that everybody would think it was a lie, and I would get sent away and cause shame to my family.
Writing my story was one of the hardest things I have ever done. But I had to do it because of the continued abuse that is still in “the Truth” today. Ira has been sheltered for the last two years (since I wrote my first letter). No pedophile should be allowed in the work.
I want to thank those who believe me and have written me to and given me their support. Also those who are diligently helping to stop the child sexual abuse in “the truth.” And the people who have put in hours of work on the WINGS website. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
My advice: Your children area gift from God. Love them with all your heart. Watch your children even when you trust those who are in your home. Check on them at night. Don’t let them go camping, unless you are with them. Don’t let them go on walks, drives, visits, work on homework, or participate in any activity where your innocent child is at risk for abuse. Sometimes the ones you love or trust the most are pedophiles.
My continued abuse through the years has caused numerous affects on me as a human being. I have no friends because I am afraid to trust. I feel like nobody loves me because I feel I am different and abnormal. I feel so stupid that I trusted Ira and that I ever thought he loved me. I don’t know how to act around people. I feel like a piece of trash because of my earlier promiscuity. It is very hard and sometimes impossible to pray. I don’t feel like God loves me like he does others. I feel very lonesome and scared. I have no self-esteem. I don’t know who I really am.
There is not a day goes by that I don’t cry, and at night I have panic attacks.Since I was 13, I have been to psychiatrists, therapists, preachers and read many self-help books; and I still have these feelings. I can’t go to therapy now, except to get my medications, because I am on Social Security due to breast cancer and depression that keeps me from working.
Is this what you want for your children? Then stand up for the safety of your children and the purity of your church. Write letters regarding your outrage to the Overseer of Texas—and write his overseer. Write WINGS a letter to post on their website expressing your thoughts about what needs to be done. Encourage others to be informed about child sexual abuse by reading the WINGS website. NO pedophile should be allowed to be a worker!
Pray for those who are helping to eliminate child molesters from the work in “the truth.” Pray that all the sexual abuse will be exposed--not just a little, but every bit of it.This is not limited to young children but to the older ones too.
Thank you,
Jean
I give permission for WINGSto post this letter on their website in: Letters From All Others
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Post by rational on Jun 30, 2013 17:45:09 GMT -5
Jean's letter used to be listed also, and it was more or less a thank you to WINGS for what they had done for her. Jean's letter appears to be listed. Perhaps waiting until the changes are complete would be beneficial rather than pointing out things that are not permanent.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 30, 2013 17:52:58 GMT -5
Jean's letter used to be listed also, and it was more or less a thank you to WINGS for what they had done for her. Jean's letter appears to be listed. Perhaps waiting until the changes are complete would be beneficial rather than pointing out things that are not permanent. Great! I can't wait for all of the other Letters of Support to be re-added! The point is, Rational, all of the Letters of Support were on Wings- they didn't need to be re-added. Silly man. Jean's letter had been removed. The site had been redesigned in February 2013. Tomorrow will be July 1. But, I do thank the admins for the re-add. Wings site at 12:00pm today:Wings site at 6:00pm today:
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Post by rational on Jun 30, 2013 18:18:12 GMT -5
Jean's letter appears to be listed. Perhaps waiting until the changes are complete would be beneficial rather than pointing out things that are not permanent. Great! I can't wait for all of the other Letters of Support to be re-added! The point is, Rational, all of the Letters of Support were on Wings- they didn't need to be re-added. Since the administrators decided to make changes it appears that they did need to be re-added.Well, I am sure you can find some additional change that you do not approve of to complain about. As I said, perhaps waiting until the changes are complete would be beneficial rather than pointing out things that are not permanent. As the site is being redone then things may well be removed and re-added as the task progresses.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 30, 2013 18:25:14 GMT -5
Well, I am sure you can find some additional change that you do not approve of to complain about. You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 30, 2013 22:27:53 GMT -5
Well, I am sure you can find some additional change that you do not approve of to complain about. You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of? Since you haven't read the old WINGS site, this is what you are thinking we made all these drastic changes to: Screenshot.pdf (287.62 KB)
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Post by rational on Jun 30, 2013 22:40:14 GMT -5
You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of? Perhaps you should wait until all of the changes are in place and the update is complete. I can imagine you standing out in front of your house and complaining to the painters that there are places that are not yet painted the whole time they are doing the job.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2013 23:52:47 GMT -5
Well, I am sure you can find some additional change that you do not approve of to complain about. You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of? Its fine to ask questions about the new website. Its also fine to ask nicely.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 2, 2013 9:19:54 GMT -5
You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of? Perhaps you should wait until all of the changes are in place and the update is complete. I can imagine you standing out in front of your house and complaining to the painters that there are places that are not yet painted the whole time they are doing the job. If the painters painted half the front of my house, and then stopped in February with the job half done (as the Wings site seemed to have been last updated), then, I think that it would be good and right at that point to ask the painters if they planned on finishing the job. Cherie, who knows the original content of Wings, is the one that pointed out all of the missing items. You can call it complaining, if you want.
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Post by Greg on Jul 2, 2013 9:24:14 GMT -5
Perhaps you should wait until all of the changes are in place and the update is complete. I can imagine you standing out in front of your house and complaining to the painters that there are places that are not yet painted the whole time they are doing the job. If the painters painted half the front of my house, and then stopped in February with the job half done (as the Wings site seemed to have been last updated), then, I think that it would be good and right at that point to ask the painters if they planned on finishing the job. Cherie, who knows the original content of Wings, is the one that pointed out all of the missing items. You can call it complaining, if you want. Just curious....was there indication on the web site that there was "remodeling" under way? And if so, what the finished content would have?
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Post by rational on Jul 2, 2013 9:59:28 GMT -5
If the painters painted half the front of my house, and then stopped in February with the job half done (as the Wings site seemed to have been last updated), then, I think that it would be good and right at that point to ask the painters if they planned on finishing the job. Questioning as to when the job will be completed is very much different from the questions you have been asking and your implications as to why the site is in the state it is.
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Post by rational on Jul 2, 2013 10:00:45 GMT -5
Just curious....was there indication on the web site that there was "remodeling" under way? And if so, what the finished content would have? It was posted on this discussion board.
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Post by Greg on Jul 2, 2013 10:32:30 GMT -5
Just curious....was there indication on the web site that there was "remodeling" under way? And if so, what the finished content would have? It was posted on this discussion board. Is that a "no" then, or you don't know? Was the remodel notice posted in a timely manner and describe the finished product? Do you recall what thread that was?
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Post by rational on Jul 2, 2013 10:54:18 GMT -5
It was posted on this discussion board. Is that a "no" then, or you don't know? It is a yes, it was discussed. No, and I didn't see a RFP being sent out either. There was no competitive bidding so I wonder if some palms were greased to get the contract. Do you recall what the required time frame is for projects like this? The product specifications and design plans were delayed in the mail so they were not published. No. I wonder if it was in the "Proposed Product Upgrades, Specifications, and time line" thread. It's a web site run by volunteers - get a grip.
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Post by Greg on Jul 2, 2013 11:07:48 GMT -5
Is that a "no" then, or you don't know? It is a yes, it was discussed. No, and I didn't see a RFP being sent out either. There was no competitive bidding so I wonder if some palms were greased to get the contract. Do you recall what the required time frame is for projects like this? The product specifications and design plans were delayed in the mail so they were not published. No. I wonder if it was in the "Proposed Product Upgrades, Specifications, and time line" thread. It's a web site run by volunteers - get a grip. I asked if there was indication on the website about remodeling. You never answered "yes" or "no". Sorry to have bothered you.
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Post by rational on Jul 2, 2013 16:05:39 GMT -5
It is a yes, it was discussed. I asked if there was indication on the website about remodeling. You never answered "yes" or "no". Sorry to have bothered you. Actually you asked: Was the remodel notice posted in a timely manner and describe the finished product?I had already responded,"yes", it had been discussed on this message board. When I got to the phrase "timely manner" I was certain you were being sarcastic and responded in kind. If that was not the case I apologize.
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Post by Greg on Jul 3, 2013 4:34:36 GMT -5
I asked if there was indication on the website about remodeling. You never answered "yes" or "no". Sorry to have bothered you. Actually you asked: Was the remodel notice posted in a timely manner and describe the finished product?I had already responded,"yes", it had been discussed on this message board. When I got to the phrase "timely manner" I was certain you were being sarcastic and responded in kind. If that was not the case I apologize. I was not being sarcastic. Apology accepted.
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Post by fixit on Jul 3, 2013 5:05:40 GMT -5
You mean like asking question regarding why letters like Jean's were removed and only have pro-professing letters left posted? Is that something that I should have approved of? Since you haven't read the old WINGS site, this is what you are thinking we made all these drastic changes to: Anyone who understands web design will realize that everything has been removed and a totally new website developed. When totally rebuilding a website it only makes sense to re-examine and update content at the same time. Remember that a website is never completed, its a living document. I hope the WINGS website continues to evolve, and I'm sorry that folks on here seem to want it to stagnate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 7:55:50 GMT -5
Perhaps you should wait until all of the changes are in place and the update is complete. I can imagine you standing out in front of your house and complaining to the painters that there are places that are not yet painted the whole time they are doing the job. If the painters painted half the front of my house, and then stopped in February with the job half done (as the Wings site seemed to have been last updated), then, I think that it would be good and right at that point to ask the painters if they planned on finishing the job. Cherie, who knows the original content of Wings, is the one that pointed out all of the missing items. You can call it complaining, if you want. It is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint a house because you are unable to do it yourself. Then they complain about it taking too long. In your case, it is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint your house in spite of you being able to do it yourself. In the case of WINGS, the job will never be done. There will always be changes as long as there are people involved who care about survivors and preventing offenses.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 3, 2013 8:12:37 GMT -5
If the painters painted half the front of my house, and then stopped in February with the job half done (as the Wings site seemed to have been last updated), then, I think that it would be good and right at that point to ask the painters if they planned on finishing the job. Cherie, who knows the original content of Wings, is the one that pointed out all of the missing items. You can call it complaining, if you want. It is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint a house because you are unable to do it yourself. Then they complain about it taking too long. In your case, it is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint your house in spite of you being able to do it yourself. In the case of WINGS, the job will never be done. There will always be changes as long as there are people involved who care about survivors and preventing offenses. Clearday, the whole point was this- the site was left un-done. The parts that were left out were the parts that were considered controversial from the beginning. Cherie was with the Wings project at the beginning. She noticed that there were items missing. Missing since February, I would presume. And throw in the moving of the victim letters, which were not even accessible on the new board at the time, Scott's controversial reply, the out of place testimonial on the front page, only professing letters being listed in the "Letters of Support" section (all non-professing ones had been removed and not added anywhere else) , then you have the makings of a full blown conspiracy. I am glad to see the changes made. If you need volunteer's to help, then why not ask for volunteers? I didn't know that Wings was needing help.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 8:30:11 GMT -5
It is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint a house because you are unable to do it yourself. Then they complain about it taking too long. In your case, it is like painters have donated their time and material for free to paint your house in spite of you being able to do it yourself. In the case of WINGS, the job will never be done. There will always be changes as long as there are people involved who care about survivors and preventing offenses. Clearday, the whole point was this- the site was left un-done. The parts that were left out were the parts that were considered controversial from the beginning. Cherie was with the Wings project at the beginning. She noticed that there were items missing. Missing since February, I would presume. And throw in the moving of the victim letters, which were not even accessible on the new board at the time, Scott's controversial reply, the out of place testimonial on the front page, only professing letters being listed in the "Letters of Support" section (all non-professing ones had been removed and not added anywhere else) , then you have the makings of a full blown conspiracy. I am glad to see the changes made. If you need volunteer's to help, then why not ask for volunteers? I didn't know that Wings was needing help. Volunteers are helping. A full web design change is a lot of work and this is how volunteer efforts go as I am sure you understand from volunteer programs you have been on. Send money and and a professional web master can be hired to do this closer to your expectations.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jul 3, 2013 8:36:43 GMT -5
Clearday, the whole point was this- the site was left un-done. The parts that were left out were the parts that were considered controversial from the beginning. Cherie was with the Wings project at the beginning. She noticed that there were items missing. Missing since February, I would presume. And throw in the moving of the victim letters, which were not even accessible on the new board at the time, Scott's controversial reply, the out of place testimonial on the front page, only professing letters being listed in the "Letters of Support" section (all non-professing ones had been removed and not added anywhere else) , then you have the makings of a full blown conspiracy. I am glad to see the changes made. If you need volunteer's to help, then why not ask for volunteers? I didn't know that Wings was needing help. Volunteers are helping. A full web design change is a lot of work and this is how volunteer efforts go as I am sure you understand from volunteer programs you have been on. Send money and and a professional web master can be hired to do this closer to your expectations. I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I do stand by how the changes left undone, coupled with the changes that were done, Scott's statement, and other evidence makes it appear that the site was decidedly leaning towards the appearance of ex 2x2s not being welcomed. Just my opinion, of course. I am an application developer and run several websites of my own- none pro or anti 2x2, or 2x2 related, by the way. If you need help, I would be happy to help.
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