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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 19:01:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 20:17:37 GMT -5
funny that --- i did a search on various church web sites for jesus unchanging way and got a similar result ---- nothing THE SOUND OF CRICKETS ON TRUTH
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 20:27:14 GMT -5
funny that --- i did a search on various church web sites for jesus unchanging way and got a similar result ---- nothing Hi Hopwood, I performed a search for you- here is something about it from the Baptist Standard. I hope this helps you in your quest. Jesus Unchanging WayBut, back to the topic, what do you think about the vacuum of silence on the Wings site from two of the top leaders of the 2x2s in North America? What do you think of the Wings site in general?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 20:45:08 GMT -5
funny that --- my baptist friends used to tell me we arent expected to live and preach as jesus did --- but it sounds good when they say its unchanging wings web site is about criticizing others and finding faults --- like this board does how would you like it if someone made a website of all the former members on this board and what they were accused of doing or not doing before they left or were told to leave?
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Post by Greg on Jun 26, 2013 20:47:42 GMT -5
how would you like it if someone made a website of all the former members on this board and what they were accused of doing or not doing before they left or were told to leave? Perhaps another board on this site?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 21:00:06 GMT -5
yeah an would any of us come on here and contribute to it?
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Post by Sylvestra on Jun 26, 2013 21:14:59 GMT -5
funny that --- my baptist friends used to tell me we arent expected to live and preach as jesus did --- but it sounds good when they say its unchanging wings web site is about criticizing others and finding faults --- like this board does how would you like it if someone made a website of all the former members on this board and what they were accused of doing or not doing before they left or were told to leave? So, do you think that the perpetrators should not be punished nor the victims healed? It certainly sounds like it!
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Post by Greg on Jun 26, 2013 21:15:26 GMT -5
House to house and from the platform are the preferred venues.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 21:39:37 GMT -5
maybe they should join the exes?
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Post by emy on Jun 26, 2013 22:07:58 GMT -5
I don't get it, Sacerdotal. What were you expecting to find from BB or DS? Do you expect them to post publicly to the victims? From what Scott said, there is some contact with workers (not necessarily those 2) and even if it isn't public, it could meet a particular need.
Scott also said that there is, or will be, a message about Jerome's trial/sentence. I'm not sure what you are looking for. I haven't explored the site fully, so tell me, is there public input from Cherie? HappyFeet? or even Clearday?
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 26, 2013 23:10:08 GMT -5
Since I had never perused the Wings site before, I decided to check it out. Naturally I performed a search on two of the top leaders of the 2x2s in North America- Barry Barkley and Dale Schultz to see how much involvement that they have on Wings to deal with the sexual abuse problems among their preachers. Here is what was returned by the search: Barry BarkleyDale SchultzWhy would we have something about them on the WINGS site? They don't have anything to do with WINGS. I find it quite interesting that you have decided to jump on the motherrumpy pumpying bandwagon against how WINGS is run, but at the same time you mentioned that Since I had never perused the Wings site before, I decided to check it out...... Since you have never even visited it, can you tell me why you are even complaining about how it is set up?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 23:26:53 GMT -5
Since you have never even visited it, can you tell me why you are even complaining about how it is set up? Because of the comment that you made that the survivor/victim stories were being moved because some of the workers felt like the stories were told to make the fellowship look bad- I am paraphrasing you, of course. I am against worker abuse and the silencing of the victims. And you and Wings are victimizing them once again. For shame. I figure you to be a man of integrity- but the move stinks to high heaven. I thought that you would have the personality and sense of judgement to tell the workers to take a long walk off a short pier- instead you pushed the victims off. It is your site- do what you want. But I think that you just scared the people away from it that could actually be helped by your site. It sure seems like the site is being run by and for protecting the workers now. That is why I am so angry. The perception of what you and the Wings board is that you are catering to the workers now and not so interested in the victims. Wings now seems to be party to covering up wrongs. And that is a damn shame for all the good that you put into the site.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 26, 2013 23:29:31 GMT -5
Why would we have something about them on the WINGS site? They don't have anything to do with WINGS. Oh really? That was my point. Crickets from the 2 North American leaders. I find it interesting that you find their lack of documented involvement normal or a good thing. But your defending their lack of leadership is telling.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 0:03:05 GMT -5
maybe jesus would have had a much bigger audience if he condemned the adulterous woman --- better still if he went hunting for them
john 8 ---- The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
not only was the adulterous woman at fault --- but now jesus was --- too.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 0:08:00 GMT -5
maybe jesus would have had a much bigger audience if he condemned the adulterous woman --- better still if he went hunting for them john 8 ---- The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. not only was the adulterous woman at fault --- but now jesus was --- too. How nice- you trotted out a strawman to go along with the obfuscation. Didn't Jesus chastise the religious leaders of his day- the Pharisees- for being hypocrites? For being the blind leading the blind?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 0:12:02 GMT -5
I don't get it, Sacerdotal. What were you expecting to find from BB or DS? Do you expect them to post publicly to the victims? From what Scott said, there is some contact with workers (not necessarily those 2) and even if it isn't public, it could meet a particular need. I don't get it either, Emy. Why aren't the two leaders of North America more open and public about what they are doing to combat the ills of sexual abuse?
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 0:25:10 GMT -5
Why would we have something about them on the WINGS site? They don't have anything to do with WINGS. OK, Scott. I am going to follow Clearday's advice and ask lots of questions: My first question is a rhetorical question as an answer to your question above- "Why wouldn't you have something on the WINGS site about Barry Barkley and Dale Schultz?" They are two of the leaders of the 2x2s in North America, and as you know, the workers consult with them before major decisions are made. I know- I was privy to one of those decisions- and both overseers made a point of telling me "We consulted with Barry and trust his judgement, and we feel that this is what needs to be done." So, I find it amazing that there is nothing regarding him or from him on Wings. Has Barry Barkley and/or Dale Schultz spoken with you about the Wings site? -If so, what do they think about it? -If so, did they offer suggestions? -If so, did they accept your suggestions to them? -If not, then haven't you found that strange that the leaders aren't involved with wanting to help solve the sexual abuse problem within their ranks and for those that they are in charge of? The buck stops here, indeed. Were the workers apprehensive about the site when Cherie was involved?
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Post by Greg on Jun 27, 2013 0:25:22 GMT -5
motherrumpy?
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Post by emy on Jun 27, 2013 0:42:32 GMT -5
Because of the comment that you made that the survivor/victim stories were being moved because some of the workers felt like the stories were told to make the fellowship look bad- I am paraphrasing you, of course. I am against worker abuse and the silencing of the victims. And you and Wings are victimizing them once again. For shame. I figure you to be a man of integrity- but the move stinks to high heaven. I thought that you would have the personality and sense of judgement to tell the workers to take a long walk off a short pier- instead you pushed the victims off. It is your site- do what you want. But I think that you just scared the people away from it that could actually be helped by your site. It sure seems like the site is being run by and for protecting the workers now. That is why I am so angry. The perception of what you and the Wings board is that you are catering to the workers now and not so interested in the victims. Wings now seems to be party to covering up wrongs. And that is a damn shame for all the good that you put into the site. I think you made a very bad paraphrase. I understood Scott to say that some of the people involved with managing WINGS (a committee?) felt that workers and friends might hesitate to suggest accessing WINGS to victims because some of the survivor stories had more to do with family dysfunction and revenge on the fellowship than with abuse. When the new WINGS is totally operational, those who WANT to make the effort will have access to the stories. All it takes is a click on a link. I did it tonight and read a very lengthy story from a young woman who has left the fellowship behind and is now in another church and Bible study. I really fail to see why victims would have doubts about posting stories on a Proboard. Are you suggesting that this site (TMB) is less than honest and credible? Why? How about TLC? Membership there needs to be approved and is monitored closely, so a Proboards site can be as open or as closed as the Admin makes it, as far as I can see.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 4:28:45 GMT -5
--- But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. -----
**** THE SOUND OF CRICKETS *****
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 5:01:14 GMT -5
--- But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. ----- **** THE SOUND OF CRICKETS ***** Somewhat subtle, but penetrating , I think.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jun 27, 2013 6:29:51 GMT -5
I have concluded that Hopwood can't be noels as noels was concerned about the victims of sexual abuse and the ministry being accountable where as Hopwood appears to be on the side of covering it up and keeping it hidden.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 6:35:30 GMT -5
clearly then jesus was on the **** side **** of adultery
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Post by holdmyhand on Jun 27, 2013 7:19:28 GMT -5
maybe jesus would have had a much bigger audience if he condemned the adulterous woman --- better still if he went hunting for them john 8 ---- The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. not only was the adulterous woman at fault --- but now jesus was --- too. Hopwood Are you suggesting an adult engaging in consensual sex falls into the same category as a child abuser and sexual predator ? Do you see WINGS as an audience draw, and miss the purpose of its creation ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 7:29:55 GMT -5
yes because he was involved in a cover up --- apparantly
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jun 27, 2013 7:41:20 GMT -5
sacerdotal: Why don't you write or call Barry and Dale. You then would have answers to your questions? No use beating Scott.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:04:12 GMT -5
sacerdotal: Why don't you write or call Barry and Dale. You then would have answers to your questions? No use beating Scott. I am not "beating" Scott. I find it interesting your choice of words- "beating"- really? A not so subtle attempt to smear the questioner. Scott asked me why I expected to see something from Dale or Barry on the Wings site. I was answering his question and taking the opportunity to ask more questions per Clearday's suggestion to me- to ask a lot of questions. By the way, do you have Barry's or Dale's email? I would be happy to share the correspondence here on the TMB so that we could all benefit.
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 27, 2013 8:07:40 GMT -5
yes because he was involved in a cover up --- apparantly Let me ask you a question hopwood, if you were the CEO of a company, or even just a manager of a group of people- and one of your employees was sexually harassing a fellow employee, would you just look away so as not to have to deal with the problem? That is what you seem to be advocating. Now, pretend that you are not the CEO or the manager, but the husband of the wife that is coming home crying because of the sexual harassment. Would you commend the inaction of the CEO or the manager for not doing their jobs and because they are so forgiving?
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