Vietnam

[snow]

Feb 21, 2014 18:47:29 GMT -5 sharingtheriches said:

Feb 21, 2014 18:39:10 GMT -5 snow said:

It seems very sad and hypocritical to me to hear that the workers will not allow the friends to help those in need when they expect to be supported by the friends for their every need!

Snow, I've heard workers speaking to one another about this helping the poor etc and they tend to discuss this under the same scripture where Jesus told one of His Apostles not to be so hard against the woman who had come and broke the alabaster box of expensive myrrh...then he went on to tell them something about them always having the poor to tend to but they wouldn't always have him....for this was done for his burial...so it says in the gospels.

Well I guess that's what people will have happen to them then if they believe the bible is right. It's stuff like this that made me start questioning. So much of what is in the bible is just not practical. Nor can it be observed in the 'real world'. If it goes against helping others then it's got to be false. That's how I see it.

[Deleted]

Continuing updates

[sharingtheriches]

Thank you, Edgar for keeping that website current. To just go through and read a posting here and there just makes me sick.....then I start reading the real Christians who love one another, strive to be together in fellowship and love the Lord their God! Maybe the dirty works of the foreigner workers can be irradicated by the love of God for these Golden Friends. May their purpose stay long and their bright light a glory to those who watch them!

[minhthanh]

Feb 21, 2014 18:44:55 GMT -5 sharingtheriches said:

Feb 21, 2014 16:53:23 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Just remembered that little incident with the VN woman with shilcren losing her avenue of funds simply because she had to borrow money to feed the overseer and his sidekick!

Sorry for a little misunderstand with my post here.

My counsin Chị Hỷ in Binh Long, and another old lady both said that they had borrowed money for settling a meal with full of respect.

Tân & Binh an ex-elder couple in Phương Lâm, told me that Mrs Loan a young lady has two children had lost her poor funds from the government, because of foreign workers visiting.

Mrs Binh is raising one of her children, and looking after the education too.

The little girl attended with all our fellowship meetings and activities with full of joy.

She took pictures for all of us this morning.

Bình Long & Phương Lâm are more than 12Okm far from Saigon, but diferrent direction.

Mrs. Loan and her daughter

[minhthanh]

1. Our wedding 35 years ago.
2. Uncle Châu and Uncle Hoa performed the wedding service.
3.Starting new life in Dalat city

4. Taking picture after the fellowship meeting.
5. My cousin (Uncle Trọng's eldest daughter) The tallest is Lý my cousin, Bình & the little girl.

May I share with you our fellowship meeting (not in 2x2) this morning.

This early morning I received a phone call from my cousin, she is the oldest daughter of uncle Trọng. My heart was full of joy to hear that she and her husband would attend our meeting. There were many reasons causing me felt full of happiness. We were happy for our friends having overcome their hard situation to be in our fellowship.

The fellowship we had this Sunday morning was so sweet to us, because today is our 35th wedding anniversary. (Except my parents, no one in the meeting know today is our special day .)

We had 16 friends together in our fellowship, our spirits were one in unity with God.

My eye shedded tears when one sister chose  hymn 276 Precious Thought. I really wanted to choose this hymn today, not only the hymn has our name in it, but also the whole meaning was my real experience in life.

“Tôi biết Cha luôn luôn hoạch định điều Thanh cao đối với tôi. Đớn đau vui tươi xen lẫn với nhau Chúa yêu tôi Hoàn toàn.” (Well I know the Heart that planneth, Naught but good for me: Joy and sorrow interwoven – Love in all I see.)

One ex-elder brother said in his testimony, he also wanted to choose this hymn.

We all had encouragement with the pieces of bread sharing this morning.

Then the little girl (Mrs Loan’s daughter, who is living with ex-elder couple Tân & Bình now) took pictures for all of us, in order we can share with you our gathering 35 years ago, and today .

[slowtosee]

Thanks so much for all you share with us. It is encouraging to see God blessings to you all. Alvin

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2014 2:35:18 GMT -5 slowtosee said:

Thanks so much for all you share with us. It is encouraging to see God blessings to you all. Alvin

It is indeed encouraging.

[Sylvestra]

Feb 23, 2014 2:14:34 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

1. Our wedding 35 years ago.
2. Uncle Châu and Uncle Hoa performed the wedding service.
3.Starting new life in Dalat city

4. Taking picture after the fellowship meeting.
5. My cousin (Uncle Trọng's eldest daughter) The tallest is Lý my cousin, Bình & the little girl.

May I share with you our fellowship meeting (not in 2x2) this morning.

This early morning I received a phone call from my cousin, she is the oldest daughter of uncle Trọng. My heart was full of joy to hear that she and her husband would attend our meeting. There were many reasons causing me felt full of happiness. We were happy for our friends having overcome their hard situation to be in our fellowship.

The fellowship we had this Sunday morning was so sweet to us, because today is our 35th wedding anniversary. (Except my parents, no one in the meeting know today is our special day .)

We had 16 friends together in our fellowship, our spirits were one in unity with God.

My eye shedded tears when one sister chose  hymn 276 Precious Thought. I really wanted to choose this hymn today, not only the hymn has our name in it, but also the whole meaning was my real experience in life.

“Tôi biết Cha luôn luôn hoạch định điều Thanh cao đối với tôi. Đớn đau vui tươi xen lẫn với nhau Chúa yêu tôi Hoàn toàn.” (Well I know the Heart that planneth, Naught but good for me: Joy and sorrow interwoven – Love in all I see.)

One ex-elder brother said in his testimony, he also wanted to choose this hymn.

We all had encouragement with the pieces of bread sharing this morning.

Then the little girl (Mrs Loan’s daughter, who is living with ex-elder couple Tân & Bình now) took pictures for all of us, in order we can share with you our gathering 35 years ago, and today .

Thank you for inviting us into your special day, both your wedding anniversary and your fellowship meeting!  Lovely!

[sharingtheriches]

Feb 23, 2014 2:14:34 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

1. Our wedding 35 years ago.
2. Uncle Châu and Uncle Hoa performed the wedding service.
3.Starting new life in Dalat city

4. Taking picture after the fellowship meeting.
5. My cousin (Uncle Trọng's eldest daughter) The tallest is Lý my cousin, Bình & the little girl.

May I share with you our fellowship meeting (not in 2x2) this morning.

This early morning I received a phone call from my cousin, she is the oldest daughter of uncle Trọng. My heart was full of joy to hear that she and her husband would attend our meeting. There were many reasons causing me felt full of happiness. We were happy for our friends having overcome their hard situation to be in our fellowship.

The fellowship we had this Sunday morning was so sweet to us, because today is our 35th wedding anniversary. (Except my parents, no one in the meeting know today is our special day .)

We had 16 friends together in our fellowship, our spirits were one in unity with God.

My eye shedded tears when one sister chose  hymn 276 Precious Thought. I really wanted to choose this hymn today, not only the hymn has our name in it, but also the whole meaning was my real experience in life.

“Tôi biết Cha luôn luôn hoạch định điều Thanh cao đối với tôi. Đớn đau vui tươi xen lẫn với nhau Chúa yêu tôi Hoàn toàn.” (Well I know the Heart that planneth, Naught but good for me: Joy and sorrow interwoven – Love in all I see.)

One ex-elder brother said in his testimony, he also wanted to choose this hymn.

We all had encouragement with the pieces of bread sharing this morning.

Then the little girl (Mrs Loan’s daughter, who is living with ex-elder couple Tân & Bình now) took pictures for all of us, in order we can share with you our gathering 35 years ago, and today .

MinhThanh! I'm so happy for your 35 yrs of wedded bliss! And I am more happy about your oneness with those you met with and the Holy Spirit lending the Spirit of God in accord with you all.

That hymn you sang was one of my Grandmother's favorite hymns....she faced some pretty hard spots in her life...lost her first husband to tuberculosis, having 2 young girls without a father and she married my Grandfather and they had 8 children and lost one with polio......Then my Grandfather died at an early age of 64 yrs. old and again Gram found herself alone and barely able to eck out a living on the farm that was left to her by Gramps. But Gram said she sang that song over and over...that phrase that He doesn't plan not but good for us was what encouraged her to keep on trying and stay faithful in the little things.

Thanks for reminding me of that song, for it is mine choice as well. I think that because there were 3 people besides the person who chose that song says that perhaps the Holy Spirit was truly dealing lovingly with all of you! Such a lovely compassionate gathering together....I pray that you can continue this kind of fellowship all of your days and that more and more people will see the spirit of God with you and come to have Him on them.

Thanks for sharing!

[CherieKropp]

It's done! At long last! The Vietnam Account & Appendix are now published on TTT!

The TTT link is: www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/vietnam.php

Now the whole story can all be read in one document.

I'm pleased that Mr. Bau, Minh Thanh, Hoan and Uncle Hoa allowed me to compile this story for them.
I sincerely hope it accomplishes their goals.

VN Photos in TTT Photo Gallery

[déjà vu]

Hi CherieKropp

thanks for all the work/ effort you put into this account it's an eye opener/

[Deleted]

Great work Cherie.

[xuanhoan]

Thank you Cherie for great effort.

[xuanhoan]

This is the translation of my letter to reply uncle Châu' heart letter confirming that the two by two way is the true way of God.
Dear brother Châu,

I have seldom written letter to you. After I read your heart letter, I also want to send you my heart letter.

Since I knew this way, I have completely believed that this is the true way. But when troubles happened, I discovered many things opposite so I have to pause to fathom, look up the Bible to know more surely the will of God.

• The first thing, workers explained to me that this way doesn’t have an organisation, workers are sent out by faith. But through what happened to you, I see that this way has a very tight organisation. The position of overseer has a lot of power which I haven’t known before (perhaps it was concealed). This position is able to allow one person to be a worker and to kick a worker out of his place (I see clearly through Overseer Dale Schultz and your case)

Thịnh(a sister worker’s brother) confided to me that every time mentioning Darrel with Cường and Hải, they appeared to be very fearful.(Cường and Hải are workers of Darrel’s staff)

International overseer-->regional overseer-->national overseer. Overseer divides a nation into fields. Every two workers in charge a field. A worker of this field mustn’t touch the field of other worker. Below workers are elders. Elders must keep track every member of their own church and report to their workers.

• Secondly, the workers explained to me that this way originates from the first century, from Jesus’ time. But in fact it isn’t true. This way was founded by a scottish man namely William Irvine. At first he was a preacher of FAITH MISSION Society. He was sent out to North Irland to preach and where he founded the way of two by two in 1897. Thus, the concept of going two by two, the words such as WORKER,FRIEND, FIELD, CONVENTION... and many other words are borrowed from FAITH MISSION Society.

In the beginning I sang the hymns, I thought these hymns only belonged to the Way of God, and some songs were from the first century or from century of 11,12...But in fact Hymns Old and New was first time printed in 1914. Previously, they used GO PREACHER’S HYMN BOOK which many songs belonged to Faith Mission Society or Protestant.

(the letter rather long, I will translate gradually)

[sharingtheriches]

Bless Cherie's heart. Such an historian! Art we glad somebody likes to do that? Thank you, Cherie!

[fixit]

Feb 24, 2014 8:14:26 GMT -5 xuanhoan said:

Secondly, the workers explained to me that this way originates from the first century, from Jesus’ time. But in fact it isn’t true. This way was founded by a scottish man namely William Irvine. At first he was a preacher of FAITH MISSION Society. He was sent out to North Irland to preach and where he founded the way of two by two in 1897. Thus, the concept of going two by two, the words such as WORKER,FRIEND, FIELD, CONVENTION... and many other words are borrowed from FAITH MISSION Society.

Yet another testimony of one who has been lied to.

Will the "leaders" of the church ever address the lies?

[Deleted]

Feb 24, 2014 15:30:45 GMT -5 fixit said:

Feb 24, 2014 8:14:26 GMT -5 xuanhoan said:

Secondly, the workers explained to me that this way originates from the first century, from Jesus’ time. But in fact it isn’t true. This way was founded by a scottish man namely William Irvine. At first he was a preacher of FAITH MISSION Society. He was sent out to North Irland to preach and where he founded the way of two by two in 1897. Thus, the concept of going two by two, the words such as WORKER,FRIEND, FIELD, CONVENTION... and many other words are borrowed from FAITH MISSION Society.

Yet another testimony of one who has been lied to.

Will the "leaders" of the church ever address the lies?

Given all the time they've had to address the false teaching, the conclusion seems pretty clear: no, they aren't going to stop. Get more evasive perhaps, but no more than that.

[shipwreckedsailor]

Just finished reading the story on TTT!  Thank you so much Cherie for the long hours and hard work in compiling all their story ~ and Edgar too for keeping us posted and up-to-date on these brothers and sisters we have learned to love in Vietnam!  And MT and all your family for sharing; it cannot be an easy task. 

One thought I had while reading your words, your stories pouring out from honest, loving hearts:

Romans 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God has always been with you and will continue His work in you all until you breathe your last breath here on this earth and see Him face to face!

[Deleted]

I find the capacity for denial enormous within 2x2ism. I just talked to my sister in Sask. where many of the workers come and go to Vietnam -- and she says that no one ever has breathed a word about any problems in Vietnam -- the only thing mentioned is how wonderful things go for the gospel their.

The capacity to hide their corruption is also enormous!!

Two dubious qualities, that we must give the Pharisees credit for being extremely skillful at applying to life in their day and age.

1-The cross where Jesus died is just one of the proofs that religious leadership has the capacity to manipulate logistics in order to condemn the innocent - and then convince the masses that their accusations are true and that their cause is righteous.

2- Our Lord also gave the Pharisees credit for the ability to maintain an appearance to others as 'whited-walls' in all their brilliance, when really before him they where filled with the ugliest forms of self-interest. According to Jesus, religious leadership had the ability to take even the vilest of this corruption and put it in a package that would seem (to the unsuspecting) to appear white and pure. And that they then had the capacity to make the masses believe that corruption was far from them!! This is what deception is all about.

Can we see this tendency in our day and age, amongst self-appointed religious leadership??

[CherieKropp]

Feb 24, 2014 16:16:53 GMT -5 edgarmassey said:

I find the capacity for denial enormous within 2x2ism. I just talked to my sister in Sask. where many of the workers come and go to Vietnam -- and she says that no one ever has breathed a word about any problems in Vietnam -- the only thing mentioned is how wonderful things go for the gospel their.

Is your sister a 2x2?

[Deleted]

Feb 24, 2014 16:20:02 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Feb 24, 2014 16:16:53 GMT -5 edgarmassey said:

I find the capacity for denial enormous within 2x2ism. I just talked to my sister in Sask. where many of the workers come and go to Vietnam -- and she says that no one ever has breathed a word about any problems in Vietnam -- the only thing mentioned is how wonderful things go for the gospel their.

Is your sister a 2x2?

Both yes and no -- In one sense she is up to her ears in the organization .. She has 2 daughters (with families) and a husband well inside 2x2ism, she has had a meeting in their home for many years --- yet she was one of the prime supporters of Marg Magowan when she was banished (and was vocal in her support of many of the Alberta exes in that time).. and she has always supported my family, and is very well aware of the idiocy and ungodliness of the organization.

At the moment they are building a new home and living in temporary conditions so don't have meeting in their home --- but otherwise she has lots of workers staying in their home etc etc etc

[CherieKropp]

I think Sandi G took me to meet your sister when I visited Canada in 1994-5.

[Deleted]

Feb 24, 2014 16:33:37 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

I think Sandi G took me to meet your sister when I visited Canada in 1994-5.

Here is a link to a pix of all six of us, lined up according to our age. Taken at moms funeral in October

I am oldest -- Helen is next to me

www.themasseys.net/familypix/2013/2013-11MomsFuneral/-viewer.asp?slide=16

Three pictures ahead you will see a picture including my cousin Marg (formerly Magowan)!!

[slowtosee]

She is indeed a remarkable sister, Edgar, and sure have appreciation for her, and glad for her encouragement. Some unique situations we find ourselves in sometimes. Smiling now, thinking of your dad flying airplane in " restricted " area, as your sister is doing also. Cheers. Alvin

[snow]

Feb 24, 2014 16:38:44 GMT -5 edgarmassey said:

Feb 24, 2014 16:33:37 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

I think Sandi G took me to meet your sister when I visited Canada in 1994-5.

Here is a link to a pix of all six of us, lined up according to our age. Taken at moms funeral in October

I am oldest -- Helen is next to me

www.themasseys.net/familypix/2013/2013-11MomsFuneral/-viewer.asp?slide=16

Three pictures ahead you will see a picture including my cousin Marg (formerly Magowan)!!

Enjoyed those pictures Edgar. Was really surprised to see women as pallbearers! Wonderful idea! My birth mom died recently and she had all her grandsons carry her's but would have been such a nice idea that her granddaughters could have too.

[sharingtheriches]

Feb 24, 2014 15:30:45 GMT -5 fixit said:

Feb 24, 2014 8:14:26 GMT -5 xuanhoan said:

Secondly, the workers explained to me that this way originates from the first century, from Jesus’ time. But in fact it isn’t true. This way was founded by a scottish man namely William Irvine. At first he was a preacher of FAITH MISSION Society. He was sent out to North Irland to preach and where he founded the way of two by two in 1897. Thus, the concept of going two by two, the words such as WORKER,FRIEND, FIELD, CONVENTION... and many other words are borrowed from FAITH MISSION Society.

Yet another testimony of one who has been lied to.

Will the "leaders" of the church ever address the lies?

As more and more "truths" about the sect called "The Truth", seems to me it is more or less all a lie! I have to wonder at my own lies while I was in with them! I pray God knows I meant it to be all about our SAviour as far as I was concerned, but does going along with others and their lies, does that cancel out the truth that was in my heart? This brings great concern and tears to me. It definitely states in the bible that we are to not give our okay to those whom are going the wrong way by our "God go with you" type of mentality. This is exactly what I and my family all have done....sent the workers off with a "God go with you" feeling! This is where the song "Oh, what might have been" comes around to hit me!

[sharingtheriches]

Feb 24, 2014 16:38:44 GMT -5 edgarmassey said:

Feb 24, 2014 16:33:37 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

I think Sandi G took me to meet your sister when I visited Canada in 1994-5.

Here is a link to a pix of all six of us, lined up according to our age. Taken at moms funeral in October

I am oldest -- Helen is next to me

www.themasseys.net/familypix/2013/2013-11MomsFuneral/-viewer.asp?slide=16

Three pictures ahead you will see a picture including my cousin Marg (formerly Magowan)!!

Edgar! I liked your message to your mother..."Bridge Over Troubled Waters"....a favorite piano piece for me of years gone by and recitals.....there are truly people we have privilege of knowing who ARE as you say "bridges over troubled waters"....I suppose by the time you mom had the 6th kid, she had it down pat! Very nice looking family. And I'm sorry for your Mom's passing...it is never that easy to bear though time passes and we know that an end comes sooner then we're ever ready for!
Sharon W.

[Deleted]

A new update including Cheries documentation and spliting the start page.