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Jan 21, 2014 17:25:31 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 21, 2014 17:25:31 GMT -5
If workers want a strong fellowship, they would be encouraging people to examine all belief systems out there, and even encourage the friends and other workers to come to a place like this and participate. Instead they tell people to avoid all outside faith information and the result is that neither friends nor workers even know how to talk to people about faith matters anymore, let alone feel confident in their own faith. The body gets stronger from exercise, bones get denser when put under physical stress. Faith is no different....it gets stronger with exercise. When you have workers in VN who are telling people not to have bible studies with their own families, you know things are in deep trouble. That just strikes me as bizarre. I can't fathom the fear that would create such a rule. Workers are the "teachers" and they don't want the "students" teaching other students things that the teachers disagree with.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:39:53 GMT -5
Post by jondough on Jan 21, 2014 17:39:53 GMT -5
That just strikes me as bizarre. I can't fathom the fear that would create such a rule. Workers are the "teachers" and they don't want the "students" teaching other students things that the teachers disagree with. In defense of other Workers, very few (to possibly no other) workers would recommend this. This was an isolated control issue with one worker. He just happened to be in a very influential position of responsibility that affected many lives. Tragic.
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Jan 21, 2014 17:45:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 17:45:37 GMT -5
Workers are the "teachers" and they don't want the "students" teaching other students things that the teachers disagree with. In defense of other Workers, very few (to possibly no other) workers would recommend this. This was an isolated control issue with one worker. He just happened to be in a very influential position of responsibility that affected many lives. Tragic. It is tragic, JD, and that's why my comment.
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Post by snow on Jan 21, 2014 18:22:14 GMT -5
I have never liked Paul and thought he was not very Christian in his ways. After reading the Zealot I had a clearer understanding that the apostles didn't like Paul and his teachings either. Most don't like to accept that, but it's true. He was not accepted ever by them. Later writers tried to gloss this divide over because they were followers of Paul and didn't want it to appear that there was such a division. But make no mistake, Paul did start his own brand of Christianity. That's how I've seen it anyway. (this is in reference to Edgar's comments on the difference between Christ and Paul in how they handled things)
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Jan 21, 2014 18:42:37 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 21, 2014 18:42:37 GMT -5
Workers are the "teachers" and they don't want the "students" teaching other students things that the teachers disagree with. In defense of other Workers, very few (to possibly no other) workers would recommend this. This was an isolated control issue with one worker. He just happened to be in a very influential position of responsibility that affected many lives. Tragic. True, but the hierarchical system means that the leaders call the shots. Until the hierarchical organization is decentralized, workers with a conscience can only watch while their leaders commit atrocities in their name. London Mayor Boris Johnson has described the World Economic Forum as a "a constellation of egos involved in orgies of adulation". Does it remind you of anything?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 5:36:18 GMT -5
One thing we can be very sure of after all the ugly things that have happened, and all the misery that has been experienced in 2x2ism, is that "'The work' does NOT represent God in these issues! -- What 'the work' expresses and trys to force people to abide by, is NOT Gods voice on the earth, as they would like to imply.
Who would be foolish enough to pretend that it is so?
The voice we should listen to is the still small voice that he speaks to our hearts with. If it is the voice of love and kindness and humility and compassion and mercy and forgivness. I find it most beautiful to read on this board of the folks in Vietnam that are obviously listening to this voice. Isn't it wonderful.
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Jan 22, 2014 11:36:25 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 22, 2014 11:36:25 GMT -5
Nathan said; Once again, common sense in life is so necessary. In no other aspect of life would someone say "listening to other views is only for the strong, and not for the faint of heart". "Unless you are very strong, only listen to one, very exclusive view in order to know what "truth" really is". Does this make sense to anyone here? My father-in-law will ONLY buy a Ford. He won't try anything else. Never has, probably never will. He thinks Ford is the best. Wont consider anything else. Now a Ford dealer would probably tell him to NEVER try anything else. Just believe them. To listen to a Chevy dealer will only sew seeds of doubt. What would someone say that is unbiased, is of reason, and REALLY cares about him. "Try them all, listen to opinions of those that drive others, then make your decision". The more information you seek for yourself, the better decision you will be able to make".Now, if everyone of your friends that use to drive a Ford, after driving a Chevy, switched to a Chevy, would you say to yourself "I better not try one because I may end up leaving Ford just like they did" Wouldn't this defy common sense? I'm ok with "Ford has A, B & C wrong with it, but I'm really loyal to Ford, so as long as they fix A,B & C, I'll stick with it. For our new generation. I think the reason so many are leaving is due to their using common sense. We raised them this way. As far as for myself. I've got family and a lot of friends that drive a Ford...i.e. in "The Truth". If I decided to drive a Chevy, that would make for a "broken home", as well as a lot of people that drive a Ford wouldn't ever see me the same again. I'm hoping that A, B, & C are being corrected over time. The biggest in my mind being exclusivity. For now, I'll stick with Ford, and do my part in helping correct A, B & C. Legal consent is only legal IF there has been an effort to be "informed". Medical consent forms all indicate information that a patient/guardian should read before signing...as well as the employee of the medical institute gives the same information plus that which pertains to the area the consent is for....Obtaining an informed consent takes information and since information can be given in many different communication forms, one should at least expose themselves to one or more of these forms BEFORE giving their informed consent. I didn't really appreciate the rule we had in the hospitals and clinics that as a nurse I was to "gain an informed consent" UNTIL there was a lawsuit against one of the medical institutions for failure to "inform" the client/guardian. Though I had always sought to give information to the clients in regards to their particular need to give informed consent in a language they could understand, it just came home to me that IF a client/guardian does NOT understand the information then they can well say the weren't "informed". This really should be the way people deal with their spiritual lives and where they find themselves or where they find their leaders...so unless we inform ourselves with what is out there then we will find ourselves uninformed and lacking understanding of those things that affect our spiritual lives, sometimes for eternity. This goes back to the days the workers first gained their converts....just what did those workers tell those first converts? I know many of them were told that the "truth" went all the way back to the shores of Galilee and/or was a direct continuation of the Acts of the Apostles. Well, since there was few ways to investigate to make an informed consent, those so approached by the workers pretty well felt they had to "trust" those workers to be speaking the real truth.....remember this all came about in the times when a man's word was always good...a friendly handshake on an agreement was all that was needed....People were in a "trusting" mode of living....I know for a certainty about my Gram and Gran that IF they'd known what I know even in part about the beginnings and also the sins that were hidden in the workership...I don't think they'd touched the 2x2 fellowship with a 10 foot board, muchless hazard their own spiritual lives to it. But they were trusting men to be honest and good for their word....fool me once is more then enough when it comes to my spiritual life!
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Jan 22, 2014 11:42:53 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 22, 2014 11:42:53 GMT -5
If workers want a strong fellowship, they would be encouraging people to examine all belief systems out there, and even encourage the friends and other workers to come to a place like this and participate. Instead they tell people to avoid all outside faith information and the result is that neither friends nor workers even know how to talk to people about faith matters anymore, let alone feel confident in their own faith. The body gets stronger from exercise, bones get denser when put under physical stress. Faith is no different....it gets stronger with exercise. When you have workers in VN who are telling people not to have bible studies with their own families, you know things are in deep trouble. These Canadian workers should be removed from VN. They are NOT helping but hindering the gospel of Christ, causing divisions among the natives friends and workers, give people bad advice, making people to go astray, mistreating native workers, etc.. It was a good thing they removed Darrel from VN. Dale is a little better but not helping much so far.In regard to causing divisions and schisms, Paul wrote that he had heart that there were such things within the churches of his converts and that he believed that that was so. But he also went on to say divisions and schisms were to b ehad for it would prove the faithful ones.....so it is kind of a subscribed negative action that these things must come about to winnow out the chaff fromt he wheat!
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Jan 22, 2014 11:51:36 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 22, 2014 11:51:36 GMT -5
Workers are the "teachers" and they don't want the "students" teaching other students things that the teachers disagree with. In defense of other Workers, very few (to possibly no other) workers would recommend this. This was an isolated control issue with one worker. He just happened to be in a very influential position of responsibility that affected many lives. Tragic. JD! IT is an isolated incident of control issues.....this forbidding of bible studies between friends, families and even neighbors who have come to you and want to learn and talk about Jesus! The workers are telling the friends all over that they are not to conduct such things, that IF there need be such a thing then the workers must be consulted.....That said, there was a case in the southwest I think it was where one of the elders of the 2x2 fellowship had a neighbor that came to him and as they sat out on the porch and talked many days about the bible, etc, this neighbor asked if there were any way that the gospel could be preached to where he could go....this elder wrote to the workers in his field and also to the overseer of that area telling abou this man who'd be back and forth to speak about the bible and what Jesus meant, etc and was asking for "gospel meetings" NOW. Those field workers as well as the Overseer replied that they didn't have time to be bothered for one hungry soul in that area...that maybe in a year or two they'd make it there. This made that elder irate...and I think he calmly told his neighbor that this neighbor must not desire to become one of the 2x2 fellowship...that lost souls apparently do not have much value to those who were the evangelistic preachers of that day! I find this behavior reprehensible....I remember the workers many years ago telling of laboring all season for the sake of ONE soul...they were even reluctant to have to leave this ONE soul when conv. time came and they did their best to make the ONE soul and family welcome to come to conv. What has comea bout amongst the workers? Are they not in this to be teachers of the gospel of Christ? I don't think so....many of them have lost that vision, that need...and this is why they're being so hepped on keeping control to the price of excommunicating those who question them!
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Jan 22, 2014 12:01:42 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 22, 2014 12:01:42 GMT -5
One thing we can be very sure of after all the ugly things that have happened, and all the misery that has been experienced in 2x2ism, is that "' The work' does NOT represent God in these issues! -- What ' the work' expresses and trys to force people to abide by, is NOT Gods voice on the earth, as they would like to imply. Who would be foolish enough to pretend that it is so? The voice we should listen to is the still small voice that he speaks to our hearts with. If it is the voice of love and kindness and humility and compassion and mercy and forgivness. I find it most beautiful to read on this board of the folks in Vietnam that are obviously listening to this voice. Isn't it wonderful. Thank you, Edgar for bringing this truth back to light! A still small voice...I think about the poor prophet who had taken refuge in the mountains and in a cave running from Jesebel.....while in the cave there was a great strong breaking the rocks, then an earthquake, then a fire....and the after all of this there came "a still small voice". 1 Kings 19:11-14 King James Version (KJV) 11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: 12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. 13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? 14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. 15 And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
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Jan 22, 2014 14:34:55 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 22, 2014 14:34:55 GMT -5
Nathan said;
~~ I had warned and prepared uncle Chau by telling him about Cherie TTT website, William Irvine, and about my message board When I first met him in Portland, Oregon 2007...
I feel so sad to read this information. That mean uncle Chau knows everything in detail about the origin of this 2x2ism. Recently one friend sharing in this board, hearing his testimony in Australia convention. He showed as he didn't know anything about the beginning of this 2x2ism. I feel disapointed when seeing his cover for this way.
Even seeing the overseer and his staff treating very bad to him, he still wants to play game with them. Uncle Châu continues persuading friends return to their fellowship, while he is in close control by them, dare not doing anything such as email, phone, visit golden friends.
It seems uncle Châu hasn't learned well , so they continue sending him to Cambodia !...
Post by edgarmassey on 8 hours ago
One thing we can be very sure of after all the ugly things that have happened, and all the misery that has been experienced in 2x2ism, is that "'The work' does NOT represent God in these issues! -- What 'the work' expresses and trys to force people to abide by, is NOT Gods voice on the earth, as they would like to imply.
Who would be foolish enough to pretend that it is so?
The voice we should listen to is the still small voice that he speaks to our hearts with. If it is the voice of love and kindness and humility and compassion and mercy and forgivness. I find it most beautiful to read on this board of the folks in Vietnam that are obviously listening to this voice. Isn't it wonderful.
Thank you Edgarmassey, once again I will share this post to uncle Chau, hoping that uncle Chau is well inform and he's not ignorant to God’s voice.
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Jan 22, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -5
MT, all this information regarding the group in Vietnam brings back overwhelming discouraging memories. I was once like your loved men and women there, idealistic, unknowing much of the history of the group, believing things about it I later found to be untrue, and then cut off, threatened with worldwide libel and slander if I did not go away quietly.
When I did not, by simply attending meetings and convention in other parts of this world, that is exactly what happened to me when it was reported back to our overseer by a man who knew I knew he was having sex with a number of female workers "beneath" him. I KNOW by my own experience what lies ahead for anyone running afoul of such overseers.
It is why I now refer to it as 2&2 worker-ism rather than "truth." Yes, I AM still hurt and saddened by my 40+ years of experience in that sect, cult, group... although I never once have lost love for others and their souls despite any here who attempt to present something else as truth. I grieve for anyone who has to face such things.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jan 22, 2014 17:44:32 GMT -5
Please do not be hasty in forming an opinion as to what Chau knows and doesnt know...and getting disappointed without knowing for certain.
We don't know what Nathan told Uncle Chau. I imagine Nate warned him against ("bad mouthed") my website and he probably promoted his website.
Regardless of Nathan's conversation, that doesnt mean Chau read either of website or knows what's on them.
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2014 19:16:03 GMT -5
Clearly Chau is torn between keeping the peace with the overseers and supporting his Vietnamese friends.
Those who put Chau in this position are answerable to God.
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Jan 22, 2014 20:28:53 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 22, 2014 20:28:53 GMT -5
Clearly Chau is torn between keeping the peace with the overseers and supporting his Vietnamese friends. Those who put Chau in this position are answerable to God. His heart is completely torn with the situation he is facing right now... with 4 directions (His family, his overseer and his staff, the government, and golden friends). What a pity for my uncle... Just easily for him if he has enough encouragement as uncle Hoa... go out of them... Then every thing will be fix in peace as he had said to a couple ex.elder "I wish to return to the golden time".
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Post by fixit on Jan 22, 2014 20:37:10 GMT -5
Clearly Chau is torn between keeping the peace with the overseers and supporting his Vietnamese friends. Those who put Chau in this position are answerable to God. His heart is completely torn with the situation he is facing right now... with 4 directions (His family, his overseer and his staff, the government, and golden friends). What a pity for my uncle... Just easily for him if he has enough encouragement as uncle Hoa... go out of them... Then every thing will be fix in peace as he had said to a couple ex.elder "I wish to return to the golden time". He's under enormous pressure. I don't like to see any suggestion that Chau is doing wrong. It seems to me that he is doing very well under the circumstances. Thank you MT for your love and care of him.
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Jan 23, 2014 9:10:31 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 23, 2014 9:10:31 GMT -5
Clearly Chau is torn between keeping the peace with the overseers and supporting his Vietnamese friends. Those who put Chau in this position are answerable to God. His heart is completely torn with the situation he is facing right now... with 4 directions ( His family, his overseer and his staff, the government, and golden friends). What a pity for my uncle... Just easily for him if he has enough encouragement as uncle Hoa... go out of them... Then every thing will be fix in peace as he had said to a couple ex.elder "I wish to return to the golden time".
What would Uncle Chau's family like for him to do?
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Jan 23, 2014 9:24:50 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 23, 2014 9:24:50 GMT -5
Nathan could you share with us exactly what you told Uncle Chau about Wm Irvine and TTT?
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Jan 23, 2014 14:35:07 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 23, 2014 14:35:07 GMT -5
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Jan 23, 2014 17:47:11 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 23, 2014 17:47:11 GMT -5
Jan 24, 2014 2:35:07 GMT 7 Scott Ross said:
I moved several posts to a new thread.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21693/
This one needs to remain focused on the Vietnam issue.
Thanks for your new thread... I have read all in it. And also many thanks to all friends have been sharing in this board with much information in threads, help me to understand more about this 2x2ism. My family leaving the 2x2 fellowship in VN not because reading in TTT website or any others similar website. Just only seeing the overseers in our country leading the folk without the Spirit Of God . Not seeing the love and the unity among workers, not seeing the truth in their words. And many others bad works I have seen and heard they treated with F&W, who didn't obey or under their rule, also their asking of raising them to the hisghest respect place.(While our Lord Jesus give us a big example in The Bible cleaning his disciples’ foot. How humble HE IS). That’s all the reason we decided to leave. Yesterday, we have had a very special and interesting day … I’ll tell you in detail later… I’m too busy with my housework, preparing many things for Lunar New Year coming. My husband will post the pictures “Uncle Hoa’s return to Saigon” Uncle Hoa suddenly appeared at my house with smile, while we are still eating lunch. I have asked him to take a picture.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:52:48 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 23, 2014 17:52:48 GMT -5
Jan 24, 2014 2:35:07 GMT 7 Scott Ross said:
I moved several posts to a new thread.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21693/
This one needs to remain focused on the Vietnam issue.
View Attachment View AttachmentThanks for your new thread... I have read all in it. And also many thanks to all friends have been sharing in this board with much information in threads, help me to understand more about this 2x2ism. My family leaving the 2x2 fellowship in VN not because reading in TTT website or any others similar website. Just only seeing the overseers in our country leading the folk without the Spirit Of God . Not seeing the love and the unity among workers, not seeing the truth in their words. And many others bad works I have seen and heard they treated with F&W, who didn't obey or under their rule, also their asking of raising them to the hisghest respect place.(While our Lord Jesus give us a big example in The Bible cleaning his disciples’ foot. How humble HE IS). That’s all the reason we decided to leave. Yesterday, we have had a very special and interesting day … I’ll tell you in detail later… I’m too busy with my housework, preparing many things for Lunar New Year coming. My husband will post the pictures “Uncle Hoa’s return to Saigon” Uncle Hoa suddenly appeared at my house with smile, while we are still eating lunch. I have asked him to take a picture. Thank you for sharing about Uncle Hoa! I'm glad he is smiling! Bless his heart!
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Jan 24, 2014 10:00:23 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 10:00:23 GMT -5
Jan 24, 2014 2:35:07 GMT 7 Scott Ross said:
I moved several posts to a new thread.
professing.proboards.com/thread/21693/
This one needs to remain focused on the Vietnam issue.
View Attachment View AttachmentThanks for your new thread... I have read all in it. And also many thanks to all friends have been sharing in this board with much information in threads, help me to understand more about this 2x2ism. My family leaving the 2x2 fellowship in VN not because reading in TTT website or any others similar website. Just only seeing the overseers in our country leading the folk without the Spirit Of God . Not seeing the love and the unity among workers, not seeing the truth in their words. And many others bad works I have seen and heard they treated with F&W, who didn't obey or under their rule, also their asking of raising them to the hisghest respect place.(While our Lord Jesus give us a big example in The Bible cleaning his disciples’ foot. How humble HE IS). That’s all the reason we decided to leave. Yesterday, we have had a very special and interesting day … I’ll tell you in detail later… I’m too busy with my housework, preparing many things for Lunar New Year coming. My husband will post the pictures “Uncle Hoa’s return to Saigon” Uncle Hoa suddenly appeared at my house with smile, while we are still eating lunch. I have asked him to take a picture. Thanks for the picture and account of Hoas return -- Look forward to hearing a bit more about it. Wonder if you have those pictures in a little larger format and had time to send them to me when it suits you? ... I think it is interesting to keep a little account and description of his activities. Thankful for the light you shed on the darker side of things around you with 2x2ism --- But also very glad for the light you share of some of these beautiful things of folks following the leadings of the Christian spirit that we love. It warms our hearts.
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Jan 24, 2014 11:39:00 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 24, 2014 11:39:00 GMT -5
Yesterday was 23rd January, it also 23rd in the last month of Lunar Year. This is a very special day, people arrange many things to see the kitchen god off to the sky. People believe that, the kitchen god know everything happening in the house, this is the day he returns to heaven to report and also bring the wishes of the family to GOD or Budah... We never worship as almost people in our country.
But it was really special day, my oldest sister was arranged to invite 5 workers for the lunch, my youngest sister also was arranged for a large number of workers to have dinner.. This is the new organisation from Canadian overseer. In the past workers never asking for a meal. They just came to have the meal if the friends wanted to invite. By asking and appointing a date for friends serving a meal. With some friends aren't convenient, because they are poor, some too old to cook, some others don't know how to cook a special meal for showing their highest respect to the workers. Some friends in the countryside had to borrow money for the meal (at least two ladies in the countryside had complained with me about their worry every time they received the arrangement asking for workers' meal). My older sister always worry every time she was arranged because she wasn't a good cook. (I had mentioned these things with uncle Lyle one time). In the past my family welcomed many workers visiting and having meals with us, sometimes more than 20. Very tired but very happy, because we thought that we served God not served man. But now they all turn back with us, even my husband had stroke, many of them even didn't ask any question about his health. I'm happy now I'm free from these things. Yesterday my parents went to my house for lunch. They wanted to spare the living room for my sister serving the meal for workers. (My sister house is small). I cooked a special meal for my parents in this special day, while we (my parents and 2 of us) nearly finished our meal at my home, suddenly we saw uncle Hoa appearing. We were so happy to see him returning. I feel God know every least thing of His people, and prepare for them. I have reserved a part of the meal... and immediately serving for uncle Hoa. Even he did not ask or require, but God had arranged every thing for him. He told us many stories through his journey, how people were thirsty to hear the Gospel, how new friends gave their prayer, very simple but deeply touched his heart. We do thanks God for His care unto uncle Hoa, give us big joy and a happy day.
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Jan 24, 2014 13:32:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 13:32:26 GMT -5
NOT every worker can be like Chau and Hoa, running around all over the country seek the lost sheep. Nathan --- Of course they can --- and of course they SHOULD like Hoa in all simplicity is doing -- Humbly, willing and anxious to follow the leadings of the Spirit of God as Jesus taught-- and not to follow the direction of a self-appointed, self-righteous earthly leadership that has the testimony of completely disregarding every beautiful virtue that our Lord gave his life to share with all mankind. Edgar Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
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Jan 24, 2014 13:39:00 GMT -5
Post by Scott Ross on Jan 24, 2014 13:39:00 GMT -5
Chi MT,
May I ask, how many people in your family are still in the fellowship? and who have joined with the golden friends? Thanks. I wish the Canadian workers had not interfered with how Chau and Hoa method of seeking the lost souls, in VN. It was working beautifully when they were in charge of the work in VN. They go every where looking, finding the lost souls. The Canadian workers CAN'T walk freely without been watched by the gov't. They should have come to VN as helpers NOT to take over the work there. Their western method of preaching and the style of working is NOT working in VN. They're trying to keep the sheep together/pastoring.... They should have left Chau and Hoa alone! as overseers, this way to allow them to travel as freely throughout the country seeking the lost souls wherever they maybe found in VN. Under the Canadian oversight they had to fit in to their plans and it hinders and restricted Chau and Hoa movement. The foreigners/Canadian workers can't move around VN freely, seeking lost souls like Chau and Hoa had done.
NOT every worker can be like Chau and Hoa, running around all over the country seek the lost sheep. It's scripture to divide fields, or given workers certain area to look after. Jesus did it and the apostles give certain ones to look after certain area. Doing what Chau and Hoa did can burn out a person real quick, because of the hardships they endured for many years they have no problem at all.
Can you give us the passages where Jesus divided fields? Also, the passages where apostles give certain ones to look after certain area.? From what I remember, those passages where people were given the task of taking care of the church, weren't apostles (workers) but rather the local elders and church members. I also seem to remember that tasks were discussed by a gathering of the whole church, and not determined by just the apostles. I would especially appreciate references where Jesus told people to remain stagnant in any certain area.
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Jan 24, 2014 13:53:55 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 24, 2014 13:53:55 GMT -5
… and Ho's coming made it extra special for you! MT – Did your siblings and parents usually get together for a special meal on this Special Day--23rd January that is also 23rd in the last month of Lunar Year? If so, I wonder if the workers requested your sisters to prepare these special meals for several workers was the workers way of making sure your family was kept apart on this special day. The workers made sure they couldn’t meet with the rest of you! Once the workers deliberately called a gospel meeting after they learned of a family's plans to hold 50th wedding anniversary celebration. About 6 people showed up when they were expecting 60-75--the rest changed plans and went to the gospel meeting and left the poor couple sad--with all that food. It was pathetic. This can be read in Tom Schroeder's story here: thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=371:schroeder-tom&catid=5:recent-exit-stories&Itemid=6They also hold annual Special Meetings on Christmas Day when it falls on Sunday--which conflicts with family Days. This happened in Texas when I lived there.
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Jan 24, 2014 14:48:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 14:48:22 GMT -5
Nathan -- How complicated can you make it? -- To avoid the clear instructions of Jesus at the end of his time on the earth, when he asked his disciples to 'go to all the world' to share the beautiful gospel that Jesus had given them?
You have to be 2x2 indoctrinated to understand this to mean -- "Go to the geographical area that organizational leaders have divided up in pieces and decided you should go"
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Deleted
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Vietnam
Jan 24, 2014 15:17:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 15:17:18 GMT -5
Nathan -- the complicated part is trying to avoid what Jesus clearly said --- and twist his words into something that fits into the 2x2 organizational mindset. Nathan I do understand how 2x2ism works but I have given up trying to translate 2x2 behavior and organization into something that Jesus never taught!
Jesus instructions "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" isn't all that complicated a sentence structure, unless you don't want to believe it!!
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