|
Post by sacerdotal on May 21, 2013 21:42:09 GMT -5
In what way do the workers live in any traditions of the occult? Easy question- they forbid marriage of their members so as to appear more righteous or pure than other men or women. Taylor Wood, the late, former leader of the workers in the Eastern United States, crassly said at a huge workers convention in Knoxville, TN the following: "The workers can get married. They just can't remain in the work." HA. Good one, Taylor! That is a knee slapper! Now, why don't you turn to the part of the New Testament that equates forbidding to marry as equal to speaking lies in hypocrisy, or giving heed to doctrines of devils! (ahem- the occult)
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 21, 2013 21:49:59 GMT -5
WH, AT least you see the connection between the Work and the spirit that is in Eastern mysticism.
Might I add that Freemasonry has Eastern components and mysticism, as well? The spirit of Freemasonry is also in the meetings.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 21, 2013 21:59:49 GMT -5
WH, AT least you see the connection between the Work and the spirit that is in Eastern mysticism. Might I add that Freemasonry has Eastern components and mysticism, as well? The spirit of Freemasonry is also in the meetings. Funny story, TS. My current manager is a Freemason, and his title really is "Most Worshipful Master". He actual told me that. Twice.
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 21, 2013 22:02:18 GMT -5
In what way do the workers live in any traditions of the occult? Easy question- they forbid marriage of their members so as to appear more righteous or pure than other men or women. Taylor Wood, the late, former leader of the workers in the Eastern United States, crassly said at a huge workers convention in Knoxville, TN the following: "The workers can get married. They just can't remain in the work." HA. Good one, Taylor! That is a knee slapper! Now, why don't you turn to the part of the New Testament that equates forbidding to marry as equal to speaking lies in hypocrisy, or giving heed to doctrines of devils! (ahem- the occult) Not to mention the spirit of immorality and homosexuality that comes with the occult practices that is infused in the Work. "Occult" means "darkness" or "Hidden". The secretive nature of the Work is also an indication of the occult influences. Emy, you really don't know what you are talking about. You have never been in the Work. The Workers have a different manner of conversation among themselves than among the Friends. They KNOW things that they can't talk to the Friends about because the Friends just would not understand. They Workers didn't even talk to me the same as they did when I was in the work EVEN SHORTLY AFTER I LEFT THE WORK!!! That is because it is a mystical organization...occult. Hidden. Obscure. Even low level Workers are on the OUTSIDE of things that go on in the higher levels. I have been present at high level gatherings where they were doing their planning. Taylor Wood, Barry Barkley, Sam McCracken, Jerome Frandle, Duane Hopkins, Arnold Brown and others were present to do their planning. It was all a hush hush affair. The inner circle of the inner circle. There was no real need to be except the mysticism of the whole thing had to be maintained. All they were doing, supposedly, was planning conventions and visitors. I was present when Taylor Wood made the announcement that Workers could not marry and carry on in the ministry. They must content themselves to get a home and support the ministry with an open home.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 21, 2013 22:08:01 GMT -5
You know. The people I'm around don't speak to or about others this way. Prayers.Perhaps he should have said that St Anne gets in a tizzy every time anyone mentions anything about Catholicism. You do have to admit that your knee jerk reaction is to defend catholicism even though sacerdotal pointed out some very valid points. You then attacked the messenger(by insinuating that his frustrated delivery of a rebuke is unspiritual) rather than look at the message. So, what do you actually think of the actual message? I am really curious to know. To me it sounds well documented and well researched. Then I'm afraid my comments would fall on non-hearing ears. It isn't the mention of ' anything about Catholicism', it's the inaccuracies. I found particularly appalling the level of disrespect for the human person, the false accusations, and the unwarranted darkness in the comments made about the workers.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on May 21, 2013 22:08:42 GMT -5
WH, AT least you see the connection between the Work and the spirit that is in Eastern mysticism. Might I add that Freemasonry has Eastern components and mysticism, as well? The spirit of Freemasonry is also in the meetings. The kinds of Eastern "components and mysticism" that you're referring to are largely a fiction, long used by Western historians, novelists, poets and playwrights to lend an air of the exotic on command. By everyone from Coleridge to Dan Brown.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on May 21, 2013 22:12:21 GMT -5
You know. The people I'm around don't speak to or about others this way. Prayers.Perhaps he should have said that St Anne gets in a tizzy every time anyone mentions anything about Catholicism. You do have to admit that your knee jerk reaction is to defend catholicism even though sacerdotal pointed out some very valid points. You then attacked the messenger(by insinuating that his frustrated delivery of a rebuke is unspiritual) rather than look at the message. So, what do you actually think of the actual message? I am really curious to know. To me it sounds well documented and well researched. TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 21, 2013 22:21:28 GMT -5
Perhaps he should have said that St Anne gets in a tizzy every time anyone mentions anything about Catholicism. You do have to admit that your knee jerk reaction is to defend catholicism even though sacerdotal pointed out some very valid points. You then attacked the messenger(by insinuating that his frustrated delivery of a rebuke is unspiritual) rather than look at the message. So, what do you actually think of the actual message? I am really curious to know. To me it sounds well documented and well researched. TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful. I am not apologizing. I meant what I said. St. Anne continues to pollute this thread with her Catholic propaganda with her knee jerk reactions for her beloved church. I have asked her nicely to start her own thread with her concerns with the statements that the EXPERTS have said. Her arguments aren't with me- but with them. Anyway, this is a 2x2 board and not a Catholic board. Again, I asked her nicely by PM to start her own thread - even with the same initial post- to address her Catholic concerns. I am willing to answer/address/ all of her concerns- I have no doubt about my sources- and severe concerns about her Catholic apologetic sources- but this topic was about the workers life of asceticism- not about Catholicism.
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 21, 2013 23:14:48 GMT -5
WH, AT least you see the connection between the Work and the spirit that is in Eastern mysticism. Might I add that Freemasonry has Eastern components and mysticism, as well? The spirit of Freemasonry is also in the meetings. Funny story, TS. My current manager is a Freemason, and his title really is "Most Worshipful Master". He actual told me that. Twice. yes. Freemasonry is such a deception. There are Christians and even preachers who, in their FM ceremonies, bow down to the leader of the lodge and call him "Most Worshipful Master" when the scriptures clearly are against that. They make vows that are clearly unscriptural vows to make and contrary to the spirit of Christ. They bind their wives and families in these oaths. The vows are not "just words". They are real and binding until broken in the name and power of Jesus. When they pray in the lodge, they are not allowed to pray in the name of Jesus. And these men wonder why their families and churches have problems with divorce and rebellious children and drug use....They introduced the spirits themselves. They are inviting the same afflictions that the children of Israel invited when they worshiped Baal. That is the real danger of cults. False worship invites so many curses and confusion. The cult influences in the churches have given people a distorted view of God and weakened their faith. Simply because "good Christians" are experiencing curses they themselves invited, they put the blame on God by saying, "God knows best" or some such. Indicating that God somehow planned disease and affliction when it was Satan's plan all along and we consented to it.
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 21, 2013 23:16:32 GMT -5
WH, AT least you see the connection between the Work and the spirit that is in Eastern mysticism. Might I add that Freemasonry has Eastern components and mysticism, as well? The spirit of Freemasonry is also in the meetings. The kinds of Eastern "components and mysticism" that you're referring to are largely a fiction, long used by Western historians, novelists, poets and playwrights to lend an air of the exotic on command. By everyone from Coleridge to Dan Brown. Um...what specifically am I referring to?
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 21, 2013 23:29:02 GMT -5
Perhaps he should have said that St Anne gets in a tizzy every time anyone mentions anything about Catholicism. You do have to admit that your knee jerk reaction is to defend catholicism even though sacerdotal pointed out some very valid points. You then attacked the messenger(by insinuating that his frustrated delivery of a rebuke is unspiritual) rather than look at the message. So, what do you actually think of the actual message? I am really curious to know. To me it sounds well documented and well researched. TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful. Now, now.... One does not have to use harsh language to be harsh, rude and disrespectful. That is why we have the term "passive aggressive". And I think that is a very good term for what Anne is doing. Seems that Sacerdotal tried to confront what she was doing directly but she insisted in defending Catholicism on this thread that was not about Catholicism. It is a comparison of 2x2s to orders in the Catholic church and other Eastern religions. I think it is a good topic. It is just history and I like how Sacerdotal documented and presented it. I do think that Anne was going off topic and would not stop. And she does get bent out of shape when Catholicism is mentioned in what she thinks is a bad light....even if it is truthful. She will post reams of copy and paste material from Catholic doctrine(and purely unbiased material I might add ). It does get annoying and IS passive aggressive. If you are going to post here, it does not pay to be thin skinned. If you are not thin skinned and feign being offended in order to get your way, then you are just being manipulative.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 0:07:23 GMT -5
I'm thinking the readers here are capable of coming to their own conclusion.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on May 22, 2013 10:38:51 GMT -5
TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful. Now, now.... One does not have to use harsh language to be harsh, rude and disrespectful. That is why we have the term "passive aggressive". And I think that is a very good term for what Anne is doing. Seems that Sacerdotal tried to confront what she was doing directly but she insisted in defending Catholicism on this thread that was not about Catholicism. It is a comparison of 2x2s to orders in the Catholic church and other Eastern religions. I think it is a good topic. It is just history and I like how Sacerdotal documented and presented it. I do think that Anne was going off topic and would not stop. And she does get bent out of shape when Catholicism is mentioned in what she thinks is a bad light....even if it is truthful. She will post reams of copy and paste material from Catholic doctrine(and purely unbiased material I might add ). It does get annoying and IS passive aggressive. If you are going to post here, it does not pay to be thin skinned. If you are not thin skinned and feign being offended in order to get your way, then you are just being manipulative. TS, I was told many years ago that such "intimate body parts and their uses or what covers those private issues" are NOT fodder for mixed company...that it becomes a "sexist" remark in that when a male says something as crude as SAC wrote to Stanne, then he seems to be saying that since he is a male and she is a female that she is less able to fill the position of whatever....I guarantee you that if this crude phrase appeared even in a personal email to one another ON THE JOB, that either the writer of said crude statement would at least be counselled against repeating such crude disrespectful diatribe or some managers/ owners would have canned the writer of such crudities on the spot....for this gets into the harassment on the job issues. I would have hoped that SAC would be above such sexist statements...but then he is still young, I suppose!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on May 22, 2013 10:45:54 GMT -5
TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful. Now, now.... One does not have to use harsh language to be harsh, rude and disrespectful. That is why we have the term "passive aggressive". And I think that is a very good term for what Anne is doing. Seems that Sacerdotal tried to confront what she was doing directly but she insisted in defending Catholicism on this thread that was not about Catholicism. It is a comparison of 2x2s to orders in the Catholic church and other Eastern religions. I think it is a good topic. It is just history and I like how Sacerdotal documented and presented it. I do think that Anne was going off topic and would not stop. And she does get bent out of shape when Catholicism is mentioned in what she thinks is a bad light....even if it is truthful. She will post reams of copy and paste material from Catholic doctrine(and purely unbiased material I might add ). It does get annoying and IS passive aggressive. If you are going to post here, it does not pay to be thin skinned. If you are not thin skinned and feign being offended in order to get your way, then you are just being manipulative. Who wrote Cathocism statement to start with? IF someone was liking the 2x2s with Catholicism or Catholic doctrine or actions, then why is it supposedly not acceptable for someone to rebut what those claims might be? And yes, I'm aware that Stanne doesn't like people to bring up the hundreds/thousands of years ago history that involved religious factors of that day and age......I think if we were in her shoes we wouldn't like it either. For example everyone that is on this board that came on while professing did often quarrel about what some of the exes and/or other observers said about the 2x2's and that some of us have since joined those ranks of exes, etc. It's kind of like some really get upset when Rat points out how negative the NT God was, etc sometimes the things people believe in wholeheartedly can be picked apart and that hurts those who believe in such.....all we have to do is remember that Jesus' own received Him not because of what the perceived He believed in....He knew it would happen but it still didn't keep Him from bearing pain on that account...... See faith in something, someone really is like loving our family members so muchy that we will not tolerate negative words spoken against them...simply because it is a very personal thing and none of us like being tripped up by discussions that belittle us.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on May 22, 2013 10:53:19 GMT -5
TS, I didn't get it that Stanne was reacting harshly against the subject matter at all....I get it that what she was calling SAC down for was the "getting her panties in a wad." This is a very crude remark and shows little respect for others, IMO...I have reacted against the same expression several times and I do find it very insulting and not just a little bit disrespectful. I am not apologizing. I meant what I said. St. Anne continues to pollute this thread with her Catholic propaganda with her knee jerk reactions for her beloved church. I have asked her nicely to start her own thread with her concerns with the statements that the EXPERTS have said. Her arguments aren't with me- but with them. Anyway, this is a 2x2 board and not a Catholic board. Again, I asked her nicely by PM to start her own thread - even with the same initial post- to address her Catholic concerns. I am willing to answer/address/ all of her concerns- I have no doubt about my sources- and severe concerns about her Catholic apologetic sources- but this topic was about the workers life of asceticism- not about Catholicism. Awww, seems that perhaps you understand that the TMB is for only the present professees? Stanne is an ex-2x2'er, the same as perhaps a majority of people who post here on TMB......in case you've forgotten. And since the exes are exes they are apt to post here with a different viewpoint that comes from their present day faith and experiences.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 12:32:27 GMT -5
I am not apologizing. I meant what I said. St. Anne continues to pollute this thread with her Catholic propaganda with her knee jerk reactions for her beloved church. I have asked her nicely to start her own thread with her concerns with the statements that the EXPERTS have said. Her arguments aren't with me- but with them. Anyway, this is a 2x2 board and not a Catholic board. Again, I asked her nicely by PM to start her own thread - even with the same initial post- to address her Catholic concerns. I am willing to answer/address/ all of her concerns- I have no doubt about my sources- and severe concerns about her Catholic apologetic sources- but this topic was about the workers life of asceticism- not about Catholicism. Awww, seems that perhaps you understand that the TMB is for only the present professees? Stanne is an ex-2x2'er, the same as perhaps a majority of people who post here on TMB......in case you've forgotten. And since the exes are exes they are apt to post here with a different viewpoint that comes from their present day faith and experiences. Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on May 22, 2013 13:01:25 GMT -5
Awww, seems that perhaps you understand that the TMB is for only the present professees? Stanne is an ex-2x2'er, the same as perhaps a majority of people who post here on TMB......in case you've forgotten. And since the exes are exes they are apt to post here with a different viewpoint that comes from their present day faith and experiences. Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here. But the OP mentions the Catholic Church twice, and also, the OP is about the Cathars, not the 2x2s.
|
|
|
Post by Jason Storebo on May 22, 2013 13:08:15 GMT -5
I've always been interested in the pilgrimages of Hindus: to sacred mountains & caves, rivers, & shrines.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 13:28:03 GMT -5
Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here. But the OP mentions the Catholic Church twice, and also, the OP is about the Cathars, not the 2x2s. Exactly- as the Cathars life of asceticism relates to the workers and how the Cathar movement was a movement against the life of corruption, pomp, ease, and greed of the Catholic clergy at the time. It is striking to see how William Irvine also turned to a life of asceticism against what he considered the corruption, pomp, and ease of the preachers of his time. I asked St. Anne, if she wanted to defend the Catholic Church or talk about how it relates to the Catholic Church- to please start a new thread regarding her concerns. This thread was to deal with the concept of asceticism- not defending the Catholic Churches burning of some Cathars as heretics- the Cathar movement directly led to the first inquisition. I would be happy to cover that topic in a new thread if she so desires- but hint to St. Anne- that wouldn't be a good idea- that wasn't exactly the Catholics Church's finest hour.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 13:28:54 GMT -5
Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here. But the OP mentions the Catholic Church twice, and also, the OP is about the Cathars, not the 2x2s. Exactly- as the Cathars life of asceticism relates to the workers and how the Cathar movement was a movement against the life of corruption, pomp, ease, and greed of the Catholic clergy at the time. It is striking to see how William Irvine also turned to a life of asceticism against what he considered the corruption, pomp, and ease of the preachers of his time. I asked St. Anne, if she wanted to defend the Catholic Church or talk about how it relates to the Catholic Church- to please start a new thread regarding her concerns. This thread was to deal with the concept of asceticism- not defending the Catholic Churches burning of some Cathars as heretics- the Cathar movement directly led to the first inquisition. I would be happy to cover that topic in a new thread if she so desires- but hint to St. Anne- that wouldn't be a good idea- that wasn't exactly the Catholics Church's finest hour.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 13:32:04 GMT -5
Awww, seems that perhaps you understand that the TMB is for only the present professees? Stanne is an ex-2x2'er, the same as perhaps a majority of people who post here on TMB......in case you've forgotten. And since the exes are exes they are apt to post here with a different viewpoint that comes from their present day faith and experiences. Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here. I have not defended Catholic doctrine in this thread. I provided a definition of terms used by you - in order to ask follow-up questions of how you were applying it to the workers. To which I don't believe you ever responded. I provided Scripture in order to counter your claims about Christ - to which you chose not to respond or to which you were unable to respond.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 14:05:28 GMT -5
Great- put the Catholic doctrine in a Catholic thread, as I asked her to do. I have seen too many threads go into a new direction once the word "Trinity" gets mentioned- then Haddock gets quoted, or in this thread's case, The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. St. Anne isn't defending or accusing the 2x2s, she simply defends the Catholic doctrine anytime the word Catholic gets mentioned by cutting and pasting from article after article on the internet. It pollutes the thread. In my opinion. Sort of like I am doing here. I have not defended Catholic doctrine in this thread. I provided a definition of terms used by you - in order to ask follow-up questions of how you were applying it to the workers. To which I don't believe you ever responded. I provided Scripture in order to counter your claims about Christ - to which you chose not to respond or to which you were unable to respond. I have no idea what you are talking about. What questions? Please ask them again IF they do not relate to Catholicism.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 14:12:27 GMT -5
But the OP mentions the Catholic Church twice, and also, the OP is about the Cathars, not the 2x2s. Exactly- as the Cathars life of asceticism relates to the workers and how the Cathar movement was a movement against the life of corruption, pomp, ease, and greed of the Catholic clergy at the time. It is striking to see how William Irvine also turned to a life of asceticism against what he considered the corruption, pomp, and ease of the preachers of his time. I asked St. Anne, if she wanted to defend the Catholic Church or talk about how it relates to the Catholic Church- to please start a new thread regarding her concerns. This thread was to deal with the concept of asceticism- not defending the Catholic Churches burning of some Cathars as heretics- the Cathar movement directly led to the first inquisition. I would be happy to cover that topic in a new thread if she so desires- but hint to St. Anne- that wouldn't be a good idea- that wasn't exactly the Catholics Church's finest hour. There has been asceticism down thru the ages as the wiki quote clearly illustrates. John the Baptist, Jesus, and others of the old covenant and new. Asceticism may have resurfaced with the Cathars - but they didn't invent it as your opening posts proclaim. As to rehashing the ills of centuries long gone, I have no desire as I'm quite happy embracing truth and beauty in worship. Nor do I admire seeing the workers trashed and thrashed in such an unbecoming manner. Would I like to see the workers teach the true gospel? Yes, I would - but the manner in which they have chosen to conduct their ministry that pertains to a form of asceticism is their business and doesn't deserve reproach.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 14:14:35 GMT -5
I have not defended Catholic doctrine in this thread. I provided a definition of terms used by you - in order to ask follow-up questions of how you were applying it to the workers. To which I don't believe you ever responded. I provided Scripture in order to counter your claims about Christ - to which you chose not to respond or to which you were unable to respond. I have no idea what you are talking about. What questions? Please ask them again IF they do not relate to Catholicism. They are still on page 1 AFAIK and the moment has passed as far as I'm concerned ...
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on May 22, 2013 14:18:32 GMT -5
Exactly- as the Cathars life of asceticism relates to the workers and how the Cathar movement was a movement against the life of corruption, pomp, ease, and greed of the Catholic clergy at the time. It is striking to see how William Irvine also turned to a life of asceticism against what he considered the corruption, pomp, and ease of the preachers of his time. I asked St. Anne, if she wanted to defend the Catholic Church or talk about how it relates to the Catholic Church- to please start a new thread regarding her concerns. This thread was to deal with the concept of asceticism- not defending the Catholic Churches burning of some Cathars as heretics- the Cathar movement directly led to the first inquisition. I would be happy to cover that topic in a new thread if she so desires- but hint to St. Anne- that wouldn't be a good idea- that wasn't exactly the Catholics Church's finest hour. There has been asceticism down thru the ages as the wiki quote clearly illustrates. John the Baptist, Jesus, and others of the old covenant and new. Asceticism may have resurfaced with the Cathars - but they didn't invent it as your opening posts proclaim. As to rehashing the ills of centuries long gone, I have no desire as I'm quite happy embracing truth and beauty in worship. Nor do I admire seeing the workers trashed and thrashed in such an unbecoming manner. Would I like to see the workers teach the true gospel? Yes, I would - but the manner in which they have chosen to conduct their ministry that pertains to a form of asceticism is their business and doesn't deserve reproach. Ah. St. Anne. I mentioned myself the Nazarites and John the Baptist. Thanks for quoting me. And you are misreading me by saying that I said the Cathars "invented it." Nope- I said quite plainly that historians trace the movement to Eastern philosophies/mysticism brought back during the Crusades. Please quote me accurately. So, if a life of asceticism is so pure and great- why burn them (the Cathars)? I'm still not following what your beef is with the historians that report this. Documented history is a pesky thorn in the side to true believers who would rather not have any proof for anything- like the workers prefer.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 14:27:47 GMT -5
There are various forms and degrees of asceticism, aren't there. Devotions and penances should be 'to each their own', IMO. As already stated, 'as to rehashing the ills of centuries long gone, I have no desire as I'm quite happy embracing truth and beauty in worship'.
|
|
|
Post by ts on May 22, 2013 15:24:58 GMT -5
Yes, the mantra of the Workers surfaces in another context.
"It is in the past"
It does not matter how far or close in the past the issue was. The fact is, they cannot be called into question in the present and past history cannot be used to predict or avoid present dangers... So, guess what? The gross offenses happen again all under the thin veneer of "We are in the perfect way with imperfect people. Don't question anything and you will be happy. Start questioning and you will be persecuted."
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on May 22, 2013 15:33:01 GMT -5
The difference is in the past errors being corrected; and not now being repeated.
|
|