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Post by sacerdotal on Feb 5, 2013 10:12:14 GMT -5
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Post by botany on Feb 5, 2013 10:28:49 GMT -5
While I do not disagree with the application to religion, we cannot point at religion and forget how the list can easily be applied to many other organization out there, and to ourselves as individuals. andy
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Post by sacerdotal on Feb 5, 2013 10:42:04 GMT -5
While I do not disagree with the application to religion, we cannot point at religion and forget how the list can easily be applied to many other organization out there, and to ourselves as individuals. andy Exactly. And we, as individuals can make love the foundation of the iceberg while the surface things of human nature melt away beneath the power of the Son.
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Post by botany on Feb 5, 2013 10:48:05 GMT -5
While I do not disagree with the application to religion, we cannot point at religion and forget how the list can easily be applied to many other organization out there, and to ourselves as individuals. andy Exactly. And we, as individuals can make love the foundation of the iceberg while the surface things of human nature melt away beneath the power of the Son. If that helps you become a better person, then all the more power to you! andy
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Post by snow on Feb 5, 2013 11:27:59 GMT -5
Unfortunately that is what religion is more known for imo. It can't help but be though. There is too much dogma and too little love and compassion because of the dogma. It gets in the way imo. Too much justification in the so called sacred books to practice the down side of religions. After all, God in the bible was rather brutal in places. He is definitely judgmental.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 11:41:21 GMT -5
Are we not all capable of everything on that list?
Is it not, but for the grace of God, we are able to overcome our sinful nature and have the spiritual fruits of love, compassion, empathy, kindness....
Until we are honest with what we are capable of doing, how are we to have love for others.
God does want us to love ourselves. To do that we have to be honest with who we are(warts and all) and then we can love other with the love of God.
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Post by sacerdotal on Feb 5, 2013 11:57:10 GMT -5
Are we not all capable of everything on that list? Is it not, but for the grace of God, we are able to overcome our sinful nature and have the spiritual fruits of love, compassion, empathy, kindness.... Until we are honest with what we are capable of doing, how are we to have love for others. God does want us to love ourselves. To do that we have to be honest with who we are(warts and all) and then we can love other with the love of God. Yes- that was the point that Jesus was making- that we are all murderers and adulterers. But religion has a way of causing humans to forget that and begin to point their fingers into everyone elses business.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 12:21:49 GMT -5
Are we not all capable of everything on that list? Is it not, but for the grace of God, we are able to overcome our sinful nature and have the spiritual fruits of love, compassion, empathy, kindness.... Until we are honest with what we are capable of doing, how are we to have love for others. God does want us to love ourselves. To do that we have to be honest with who we are(warts and all) and then we can love other with the love of God. You are absolutely right: we love others with 'the love of God.' That love is so not of our own nature, and when we feel that love growing, it is such an encouragement spiritually. At least it has been for me.
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Post by matisse on Feb 5, 2013 12:39:04 GMT -5
Are we not all capable of everything on that list? Is it not, but for the grace of God, we are able to overcome our sinful nature and have the spiritual fruits of love, compassion, empathy, kindness.... Until we are honest with what we are capable of doing, how are we to have love for others. God does want us to love ourselves. To do that we have to be honest with who we are(warts and all) and then we can love other with the love of God. I agree that it is important to "own" the wide range of things we are capable of (prone to) as human beings. But I believe we humans have all of the resources we need within us to find our way to love, compassion, empathy, kindness - both toward ourselves and toward others...without any reference to a supernatural being. Metaphorically speaking, one might say "The Kingdom of Heaven is within us."
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Post by matisse on Feb 5, 2013 12:49:42 GMT -5
This image was thought-provoking. My first reaction was, “Wow, wishful thinking on the part of the religious that the only thing onlookers can see is love!” Some of the things on the list shown below water are, in my opinion, very much in plain sight!
This image strikes me as a good representation of the relationship I have with my professing family around their involvement in the 2x2’s. There is a lot of genuine love between them and other members of the group. This is the aspect of their lives within the group that they emphasize around me. But then there is the “Giant Iceberg in the room” that they either do not know is there, or that they want to pretend is not there (maybe some of each?). Like the proverbial “Elephant in the room”, anything that might be perceived as being less than ideal about the 2x2’s is not open for discussion – especially not with an unprofessing sister/daughter.
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Post by snow on Feb 5, 2013 14:42:14 GMT -5
Are we not all capable of everything on that list? Is it not, but for the grace of God, we are able to overcome our sinful nature and have the spiritual fruits of love, compassion, empathy, kindness.... Until we are honest with what we are capable of doing, how are we to have love for others. God does want us to love ourselves. To do that we have to be honest with who we are(warts and all) and then we can love other with the love of God. I agree that it is important to "own" the wide range of things we are capable of (prone to) as human beings. But I believe we humans have all of the resources we need within us to find our way to love, compassion, empathy, kindness - both toward ourselves and toward others...without any reference to a supernatural being. Metaphorically speaking, one might say "The Kingdom of Heaven is within us." Yes, I totally agree with this. I think it's sad that we give ourselves so little credit even when it is others doing something for us we thank God instead of recognizing that it was because a human being stepped forward and did the deed. We have the ability to chose any of those things listed on the above picture. We therefore have the ability to make choices that further the well being of all of existence. I don't believe it is a "superior being' that makes us make the more beneficial choices, it is us making those choices. We are magnificent beings in our own right , is my opinion.
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